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I thought it was a S. clevelandii
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Posted by kelpmermaid 10S24 (My Page) on Mon, Jun 15, 09 at 17:43
| Out in my little postage stamp of land above a retaining wall, I have 3 salvias, a fat and happy S. mellifera, a new S. clevelandii now in blue bloom, and a little mystery. A bought the latter as a S. clevelandii about 2 years ago. It smelled like a clevelandii, and the leaves looked right. It was a tiny little plant (4" when planted) and took a while to take off. Anyway, it has now finally bloomed, and I'm surprised: the flowers are white! Any ideas what it is? Is it possible that it's some hybrid, or could it be a natural variant? I have not contacted the seller, but maybe I should. I'm not disappointed, just surprised. |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: I thought it was a S. clevelandii
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| Give us a photo. A close-up of the flowering stalks would help, too. Out at my favorite population of S. clevelandii near Margarita Pk. in northwestern San Diego Co., I know of one plant that has white flowers. So, I know for a fact that it happens. I couldn't get cuttings to go. I'll have to collect them earlier in the season next year. |
RE: I thought it was a S. clevelandii
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| I tried to photograph them from below, but I'm going to have to climb up there to get a better shot. In the interim, I have asked the seller about it. |
RE: I thought it was a S. clevelandii
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| Okay, I managed to get up there, and, dodging annoyed hummingbirds and a really immense black bumble bee, I managed to take a few photos. There are a few photos of the mystery bloom, the mystery plant leaves, and nearby plants known to be s. mellifera and s. clevelandii. I think the former came from Theodore Payne and the latter I know came from Tree of Life. It seems that mystery plant smells more like clevelandii and the leaves and size of the actual flower itself are more like clevelandii. The issue is the color. I did speak to the seller, and he thought it might be that I had received a S. mellifera in error. I thought that the mellifera blossoms were less showy, and that is true for the one that I currently have out there. Any thoughts? While I was up there, I did a little weeding and hacked back the remains of the poppies. I won't go up there again until late fall to do some major pruning/mulching -- the birds and bugs will be less active. Did I mention that I now smell like I rolled in sage? LOL! |
Here is a link that might be useful: Salvia pix
RE: I thought it was a S. clevelandii
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| # 5 is clevelandii. I doubt your mystery plant is anything close. I'm hoping someone can tell us because now I'm interested too. |
RE: I thought it was a S. clevelandii
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| It's not S. mellifera. It's either S. clevelandii or a hybrid, but probably not with S. leucophylla this time. Even with the photos you provided, it's a bit hard to tell. |
RE: I thought it was a S. clevelandii
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| One more reason I think it's not mellifera has to do with the growth habit. As mentioned, the mystery salvia was very small when it was planted, but that was in late 2006. Its progress has been slow. The one that I know is a mellifera became awfully big very quickly. |
RE: I thought it was a S. clevelandii
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| How big is it? One thing I've learned is that growth rate and ultimate size are hard to predict. Even living in a region where the plants are common is no guaranee that they'll grow either fast or big in a garden. BTW, your "immense black bumble bee" was probably a California Carpenter Bee, Xylocopa californica. They are utterly harmless unless you decide to play with one. They are important pollinators of S. apiana. One visits my yard frequently, and it works over my apiana flowers. I want them here. If I could attract more, I would. |
RE: I thought it was a S. clevelandii
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| Now that it has started to flower, those branches might be 2 ft, maybe 2.5 feet. It might be the same across. In comparison, the mellifera is about 5 ft across, maybe 3-3.5 ft tall, but I have whacked it several times. The bee was all black. It was about an inch long, about half that across, and it was very loud. It made its way around, working on the sages and the buckwheat but primarily was interested in the clevelandii. It was intimidating. |
RE: I thought it was a S. clevelandii
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| Yes, that's a carpenter bee. I was intimidated, too, until I identified and read up on them. I wouldn't try to catch one or handle one, but, other than that, I wouldn't worry about it. I wouldn't hesitate to do yard work with a carpenter bee close by. My conclusion about your "mystery sage," based upon your description and photos, is that it's probably a genuine cleve, but it could be a hybrid. That's simply because so many "Cleveland Sages" in the trade are really hybrids. I have one in my backyard, sold to me as a genuine Cleveland, but once I knew what real Clevelands looked like, I realized it was a hybrid. It is considerably larger than my real Clevelands. Among other differences, my hybrid typically has three flower heads per stalk rather than one or two closely-spaced heads. Plus the flowers are a lighter blue than real Clevelands (or maybe purple; I'm colorblind, and purple is usually a difficult color for me). |
RE: I thought it was a S. clevelandii
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| It looks v similar to S clevelandii to me, except for the finely scalloped edges on the mature leaves. I don't remember having seen this feature on S clevelandii, although it's a few years since I last had it. If it's a hybrid, could this be a clue to the other parent? |
RE: I thought it was a S. clevelandii
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| The scalloped edges are typical. For a photo of S. clevelandii leaves, look at one of my photos in the "Salvia clevelandii in California" thread from last year. Also keep in mind that Calif. salvias alternate (with much overlap) between two distinct types of leaves: big ones for the wet season (winter & early spring), and smaller ones for the dry season. For S. clevelandii, the big ones are greener, the small ones grayer. The point is, their leaves don't all look alike, and it's possible you don't see both types in the UK. Robin Middleton has complained that he can't get them to flower in the UK, so it seems possible to me that they don't properly go through their life cycle there. The photo I mentioned earlier shows both types of leaves. |
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