Guaraniticas usually do not set much seed, especially in the northern states. Also, seeds collected may not give you the same plant, especially if other guaraniticas are nearby.

Large stock plants will generate a lot of stolons that will wrap themselves around the upper rim of the pot. These can be conveniently cut off and potted up, usually in the spring after they have broken the surface and formed a couple of true pairs of leaves. At this point, the stolons are emitting roots just behind their sprouting curve upwards. This stage of development is optimal for getting more robust plants.

People often don't realise this - seed from any variety grown in an open garden may not come true because it could be hybridised if any related plants are also grown (within 40 m I have heard, so that could include your neighbours' gardens!). Named varieties of plants, what's more, are often of hybrid origin, so their own genetic background may mean the seed won't come true, even if both parents are the same - and if they might not be, there's a double whammy!

Nothing wrong with seed not coming true, I dont mind something new. Experimenting with the Macrophylla x Sagittata seeds at the moment, a lot of variability in the foliage, just waiting to see what happens with the flowers:))).

Both arguments are usually present in the garden, aren't they - one relative certainty and the other hope. Because of our moderate fall weather a involucrata has grown to be a real monster and this evening I discovered it was setting lots of seed. Until a few days ago hummingbirds were passing pollen from one plant to another among many types of salvias. Maybe it will ripen and who knows what will result next year. It will be tempting to collect and grow out the whole lot.

Last week I stored a single seed from the hybrid Scarlet Spires, the only seed I found on four plants. I can't decide whether to try to start it now or whether I should wait until I'm in seed growing mode come late winter. I don't know about others, but seeds grown out of season are likely to get neglected and lost.

Monica, if you like Black & Blue you will probably like some of the other guaraniticas. And if you are after hummingbirds you might want to grow some annual salvias that can be started at tomato starting season: coccinea and subrotunda. I know a few people in your zone that grow them with great success.

Well, of course it's from 'untrue' seed that new varieties come, and I'd never suggest you shouldn't grow it - all gardeners with any curiosity are going to want to! But my point was that if you want a particular variety, you may not be able to rely on its seed to get it. Luckily salvias are mostly dead easy from cuttings and quite a few can be propagated from offshoots etc as described by Rich.

It's quite interesting to me reading about seed production etc in the US - of course we don't get many hummingbirds in the UK and have to rely on insects for pollination, but most salvias do seem to set seed OK. Of those which don't, it would be interesting to know whether it's because of our relatively dismal climate, as I've always assumed, or at least partly to do with inefficient pollination. S guaranitica often flowers well but rarely sets seed for me; however, I have known it to do so so it can't be entirely dependent on hummingbirds for pollination. I shall try to keep track of weather/flowering/seed set and see what I can learn!

In the UK, we have just had two pretty dismal summers. Both very similar. I have about 5 forms of guaranitica...last year they all set quite a lot of seeds, (but I had to search for them) except for Argentine Skies, from which I have never found a single seed. This year there have been hardly any seeds, even though all have flowered magnificently. The exception has been the one I refer to as 'Small Form'...only 4 ft. high, and lime-green leaves....this may or may not be the true species, as it can spread alarmingly. However, the plant in my back garden has set nothing, but the one in the front garden has set a lot. They are both from cuttings of the same plant. The one in the front gets sun in the morning and shade in the afternoon...the one in the back gets the opposite! Explain this, please!!!

I have seen a couple of hummingird hawk-moths this year, beautiful but elusive creatures. This is nearest we get to hummers here.

Annette mentions macrophylla x sagittata hybrids...I have two...or at least I think that is what they are. One has the most extraordinary large grey-green arrow-shaped leaves, and is winter-flowering...whereas the species are summer-flowering.

Very interesting and confusing....but such fun!

Don't you think that many salvias are largely self-fertile? I do. It must be more difficult sans hummingbirds to get many hybrids from large-flowered plants. We have many species of hawk moths here too, and on smaller flowered plants like greggii skipper butterflies also seem to be pollinators.

I never seen very much seed from my 5 or 6 kinds of guaraniticas. Most likely I'm missing what does occur since I hate collecting one seed at a time.

Self-incompatibility is a big problem with many large flowered sages. Involucratas and guaraniticas in particular set little seed. Miniata and mexicana are good seed producers, as are some of the splendens like Robins pink form.

Part of the problem is the robustness of the plants at seed production. If they are not happy, even if they bloom, there will be no seed. The other problems have to do with the morphological properties of the pollination mechanism versus those of the pollinator. See Petra Wester's work on this area.

Mexicana can cross with involucrata. Donna Dittmann of Baton Rouge has such a plant. In the wild, they do not seem to cross, even though they grow next to one another. Timing of bloom period is another factor.

I can certainly attest to the productivity of miniata. They come up quite frequently in other pots and apparently the seed can take cold weather, there is on growing out of a crack in my pavement. I haven't noticed any hybrids. Mexicana seed can also be winter hardy since I had several seedlings out in the garden a few years back. It is my impression that miniata seedlings take too long to mature here to be of any use.

Yes, I do think a lot of them are self-fertile, S patens for instance which always sets seed for me really well and always produces offspring the same colour as the parent. It's clear that some species hybridise rarely if at all and others very readily, presumably meaning that there is a spectrum with fully self-fertile species at one end and species which need a pollinator at the other - and probably all shades in between! Another variable to take into account...........

So, is to safe to assume if I take cuttings of the salvia it won't work either?

Another question --- can you store these plants in a dark basement and then pull them out around Feb. and water and the plant will come back?

Sorry, I'm just a beginner with the black and blue salvia. I did also try another version that was lime green and smelled like green apples. None of them flowered and I was disappointed. I don't think they received enough sunlight.

No, cuttings will be fine. These are clones with the same genes as the parent and will be exactly the same. S guaranitica isn't the easiest to take cuttings from as it has a relatively unbranching habit, but if you can find suitable shoots they will work. I would try in April/May if you have fine weather. The method described by Rich is probably easier if you have suitable basal shoots but your plant may need to be bigger before it produces enough.

I would think the 'dark basement' method of overwintering ought to work, if the basement is also cool - I haven't tried it but would suggest keeping the pot dry but not letting it dry out completely; watch carefully (check weekly at least from Jan) and be guided as to when to get it out and water more generously by when you notice the first sign of new shoots on the plant. However, they are fairly hardy and once you have good, big plants, if you can find a well-drained spot where they won't get too wet they might come through out of doors depending on what your winters are like - they should survive several degrees of frost if not sustained for many nights at a time.

What colour flowers did the lime-leaved Salvia have?

I am not much good on zones as they don't really apply in Britain (technically I'm Z7/8 but you try telling that to my salvias!), but Z4 must be pretty cold so on second thoughts I don't think S guaranitica would get through the winter out of doors with you. When you have lots you could experiment with various forms of protection, but if the ground freezes solid for long periods I reckon you're onto a loser! You could overwinter some of the tough old European salvias, though - they get overlooked because their New World cousins are showier, but they have their uses!!

If you have one in pot you might let it get cut down by a freeze and then put it in the basement - above freezing but the colder the better. You could also throw up a set of shop lights in the basement and keep them growing all winter - that is what lots of us do. You could also root some cuttings and put them under the lights

In my 15" pots this last year, I started a lot of nice Argentina Skies by unwinding the stolons just where they poked above the ground, and cut off an inch or two of the stolon, providing it had roots as well as the stem. These have done nicely and have emitted a good number of other shoots as well over the summer.

I think I'll that with the Blue Ensign you sent this spring. I presume this is something that can be done in March or April. Anything to save a little space in winter.

Maybe I was lucky but I did collect 50-60 seeds from black and blue and I winter sowed some of those and got a few plants from those and as far as I can tell they came true. If you wait too long after the stems turn brown the seeds may all fall out on their own. I collect the entire stem and put it in a paper bag to collect the seeds later.