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Agastaches
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Posted by tabassam MD (My Page) on Sat, Oct 29, 05 at 19:51
I've noticed that quite a few of you have Agastaches. I've tried 'Tutti Fruitii' and failed. Are they difficult-- it seems they require much more sun and better drainage than I can give them. I know I would like them, but afraid of killing them. I want to try Penstemons too, but they seem finicky and I'm not sure if they would thrive in high humiditiy summers and wet winters-- maybe I should just stick with salvias.
Tabby |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Agastaches
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| Believe it or not, there are some good Penstemons, but they need to be from the plains states like the red P. murrayanus. There is a rare one from the mountains of Georgia that has nice flowers and foliage. Others worth trying are secundiflorus and barbatus. Forget the Rocky Mountain alpine ones. Agastache `Tutti Frutti' is a cross between A. mexicana "Toronjil Morado' as the pollen source and A. pallida v. pallida (A. barberi) as the female. The reverse cross is `Pink Lemonade'. A TM contributes some tolerance to humidity, which is why I made those crosses. Most Agastaches don't like the southeast, otherwise I would be doing more breeding. As with Salvias, Agastaches and Penstemons require humusy soils and drainage. You should have at least half sun. Hummingbirds like the flowers of all three genuses. |
RE: Agastaches
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| Tabassam, I have only dappled shade (no full sun), and I tried a bunch of agastaches from seed this past year. 'Firebird' and rupestris did OK, leggy blooms but still worth having for me at least. 'Blue Fortune' and 'Golden Jubilee' grew well, with attractive mounds of dark green foliage, but blooms were not as dazzling as they were for friends with full sun. The far and above winner for me in dappled shade was 'Apricot Sprite'- Great colors, not leggy, lots of blooms - blooming still today. I do have them in raised bed for drainage. |
RE: Agastaches
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- Posted by dbarron Z6/7 (Oklahoma) (My Page) on
Sun, Oct 30, 05 at 7:23
As you head out west (Oklahoma here), the western Agastaches do quite fine in an unwatered bed and put on a pretty fair show (best is actually just before frost, for me). These include neomexicana, rupestris, cana, and several of the hybrids. In the second year, they actually get less wispy and begin to look like a nice clump.
Course, I can grow several of the Texas salvias and penstemons too. But then again, I can't grow hostas ;) It's all a trade off in where you live and what you can grow. |
RE: Agastaches
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| Rich, I've noticed that there are one or two agastaches native to the southeast. Would you ever use Agastache nepetoides in your hybridizing to increase tolerance to our weather? |
RE: Agastaches
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| That's a great idea, Karen. Rupestris did do very, very well here in sun for me though! |
RE: Agastaches
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Rosewomann, I remember that you grow agastaches. Which ones are you successful with?
Tabby |
RE: Agastaches
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RE: Agastaches
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| I might try either A. rugosa (Korean mint) or A. foeniculum with A. mexicana for the effects you mention. The other two natives have such small flowers that hybrids' flowers would also be quite small in size. There have been an explosion of Agastache hybrids out of Colorado. I sent a bunch of them to the Denver Botanical Gardens, and Panayoti Kelaidis put them into production. They bloom in summer there when very little else does. Since they became popular there, new sports were discovered and propagated. Those I gave Betsy Clebsch ran amok and generated futher crosses in all colors from fuchsia to red to orange to yellow orange. Some were big enough to hide an NFL linebacker. I think that on my suggestion, Betsy got Ginny Hunt (Seedhunt) to collect seed on some of the more desirable ones. |
RE: Agastaches 2
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| I might try either A. rugosa (Korean mint) or A. foeniculum with A. mexicana for the effects you mention. The other two natives have such small flowers that hybrids' flowers would also be quite small in size. There have been an explosion of Agastache hybrids out of Colorado. I sent a bunch of them to the Denver Botanical Gardens, and Panayoti Kelaidis put them into production. They bloom in summer there when very little else does. Since they became popular there, new sports were discovered and propagated. Those I gave Betsy Clebsch ran amok and generated futher crosses in all colors from fuchsia to red to orange to yellow orange. Some were big enough to hide an NFL linebacker. I think that on my suggestion, Betsy got Ginny Hunt (Seedhunt) to collect seed on some of the more desirable ones. |
RE: Agastaches
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| So which agastaches should I try for a lean, low nutriant, sandy habitat, far from a watering can. I'll be collecting rupestris seeds this weekend, and I'm overwintering cuttings of Tutti Frutti. The area in question is suffering serious deer damage, especially to nectar plants, and so needs some help. I'm also wondering whether salvias such as microphyla and greggi and their hybrids, all of which I have in surplus, would have a chance in a site like this. I also presume that Penstemon barbadus might also be appropriate. |
RE: Agastaches
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I have very heavy clay soil. I have amended it some with compost. I have grown Apricot Sprite, Pringlei, Rupestris and a couple other whose names escape me at the moment from seed this year. Last year was my first try with any agastaches and I had great success with Apricot Sprite. It overwintered here in western NY beautifully. I do have some gravel in the planting holes for extra drainage. The bed is on the south west side of the house wchich received sun from late morning until evening and it gets watered sparingly. This year I added A. Cana 'Sonoran Sunset' and Penstemon x Mexicali 'Red Rocks' to that bed which also houses my favorite salvias. I am keeping my fingers crossed that all the new plantings make it over this winter.
Penny |
RE: Agastaches
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Hi Tabby,
I've had numerous Agastaches survive for a couple of years , then die suddenly . I suspect due to winter waterlogging.
But I've had the same thing happen with Salvia roemeriana this year -it bloomed it's head off & then died promptly afterwards. I was surprised it overwintered to then die in the summer. That happened with my Agastache "Pink Pop" & one that I think was Red Fortune. I don't think it was the drought cause I watered . I wonder if the roots die off from too much water in the winter & then they can't absorb enough in the summer? I also wonder if something was eating the roots underground . I'm going to be careful & overwinter cuttings of the cultivars indoors so don't have to keep buying them. The species grown from seed are easily grown again & usually flower in the first year so they aren't much risk. I can never overwinter Apricot Sunrise. I have even lost that one in the summer! It's disheartening to pay $10 for a cultivar(expensive local nurseries are the only places you can find them around here)& lose it on the first winter. It's ironic that the dense spikey species are hardy & tolerate more extremes, but the open airy ones(that I like the best) are more sensitive to over or underwatering. Isn't that the way things usually are?
Oh, the rupestris has come back for several years in a row, one in a huge whiskey barrel, one near my front walk. I believe my son killed that one by putting salt on the ice nearby. :-( Penstemons I've been somewhat successful with,they overwintered last year- not sure of the species cause the winter sowed seeds mixed together in my milk jugs(tucked 4 species- one in each corner- in each milk jug- they blended when watered!). We'll see how they do on their second winter. I really like them! I had been obsessed with just Salvia & Agastache. Now I'm equally obsessed with Penstemon! Rose RICH, if you read this-
Which Agastache cultivars have rupestris like foliage? It is really hard to figure this from all the internet stuff I've read- and it's been plenty! |
RE: Agastaches
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| I became inspired with Penstemons myself when I got access to Ricket's Wildflowers of the United States. After five years of trying to grow them in sandy loam and sand beds in North Carolina, I gave up. Most of the alpine western ones just could not acclimate to subtropical hot humid nights. I have had better luck with those from the plains states. There are some nice ones from the southeastern US. The sand and sandy loam beds were optimal for growing other plants from that area, including the Agastaches and Salvias. |
RE: Agastaches
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| Has anyone tried the Agastaches "Black Adder"? I just got a nice one thru the mail about 2 feet tall. I have clay soil, and plan to put rocks, sand, and compost in the soil to try to ensure good drainage. Hope it will work! |
RE: Agastaches
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| rose - "orange flare" has that lovely rupestris foliage, and i think "desert sunrise" is close. highcountrygardens.com is a good source. i love my rupestris spilling over my walkway so much i just planted two more. every time i come home it smells like root beer. nice to read about something we actually have more luck with here in colorado! |
RE: Agastaches
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| Living in central indy we have warm sometimes hot humid summers and I have heavy clay soil which I have amended with organic compost and rupistris and tutti fruitti grow well in it. TF growing over 4ft easily, but the rupistris getting bigger and better the second and third year of growth. But so far cannot get TF to come back for me. |
RE: Agastaches
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| Love the scent of western Agastaches. Looking forward to second year of Rupestris, cana 'Purple Pygmy' and aurantiaca 'Apricot Sprite' now that I've read someone in Zone lower than 7 got it to overwinter. Was leaving it as filler anyway until Spring but will see if it overwinters before I yank it. Rupestris truly does have a great scent. |
RE: Agastaches
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| Tutti Frutti is my introduction, and is a cross of the tender Agastache mexicana Toronjil Morado with A. barberi, more correctly called Agastache pallida var. pallida, which is from the mountains of northern Sonora and southern Arizona. I made that cross to confer durability to the hot humid summer nights of the southeastern US. Unfortunately, neither parent is reliably hardy in the northeastern US or northern Midwest. A. rupestris and A. aurantiaca come from higher elevations and are more durable in colder climates. |
RE: Agastaches
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| Newbie--- Good luck to you and your rupistris and their second year of growth , you will notice a difference. I was very pleased when they overwintered for me and even became a bigger and better plant. Rich-- Thank you very much for the tutti frutti . Its growth habit and flowering pattern make it quite inviting to hummingbirds and therefore makes me happier. I have a lot of different salvia and other plants and I have to put TF in the top 3 of preference of hummers. Im trying a little different method this winter of trying to protect TF from our midwest cold winters so it might make it thru for me. Rich--- Is it just me or is getting seed from TF in the first week of Nov a bit rare, it seems so to me. Anyway last year my effort at germination of earlier seed failed. But in trying a few of these seed to see if its viable , after 3days I find half of the seed germed. Any success at all improved upon last years effort. |
RE: Agastaches
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| Don't expect Tutti Frutti to come true from seed. By the way, both parents are similar in appearance, so it would be hard to tell which parent is dominant. |
RE: Agastaches
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| Thanks Rich IM quite aware that any plant cannot come true from seed even though it might appear that way. But that doesnt bother me at all. |
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