Can you say tight in the pot?

I repotted it temporarily, but need a bigger pot.

Pirate Girl-
Neat find. I am in NJ but I have not seen that first one anywhere before. I have a plant someone sent me years ago as S. suffruticosa "sprial form" that looks similar, although I don't even know if that name is real or correct. The second plant looks like a young S. cylindrica, yes? I like the pot packed with rhizomes (the 3rd plant). Funny how they do that....sometimes the pots seem to sit there without doing anything...until you look underground!! Is this 3rd plant also an unknown?

Hi,

sorry, but the pics are not at all helpful for an ID.

Helli

Hi Helli

Can I pls. ask why the pix aren't helpful for an ID? Is there a better way for me to photograph them for ID?

I'd been hoping Norma would see these & have some guesses for me.

Hi Woodnative,

Yes, the 3rd is also a no ID & was really packed tight in that pot.

I bought the small one at my Indoor Gardening Society's Plant Sale table, the other 2 were donated, but not subsequently bought, I suspect becuase they're on the large size (for NYC apartments).

Karen,

I'd say yes - photograph them with more light. The pictures are too dark for identification purposes.

Hi pira,

the pics are too small and show neither the whole plant nor important details. Moreover, 1 and 3 come from groups with many probable candidates, and 2 ist yet too small to be sure of anything.

Guessing is not IDing.

Helli

Hi Helli,

Thanks, I didn't think guesses were IDs; frankly I'm not really invested in the difference at this point.

I am not a professional grower, this is not for publication; I just want a guess (as I said), as I thought it'd be more difficult to get a definate ID on it. Am friendly (in person, offline) w/ Norma & thought she could provide it.

Somehow your comment leaves me feeling reprimanded, scolded, or discouraged, which I don't think I had coming & is definately not why I came here.

Perhaps a more constructive comment would be to tell me what the important details might be for me to use in the future.

Jeff, That's all the light I got; while I hear you, seems hard to believe that the curved leaves & the definate channels aren't good clues to start. (Come on dude, I've seen much darker, crappier pix get dealt w/ much better, what gives?)

Hi Pira,

mmm well I am often terse in forums for lack of time, I certainly did not intend any of your feelings. OTOH I am once bitten, twice shy, since often I get scolded if I only venture a guess ("But what IS the true name?")

Anyways, detailed pictures include leaf tips, stem, leaf sheaths, upper and back side of the leaves.

A guess would be
1 suffruticosa group
2 cylindrica perhaps
3 trifasciata-fasciata-grandis-raffillii-subspicata or a hybrid

Helli

Karen,

You should know by now that Helli takes her (?) Sans seriously, and my comment was to improve the opportunity for her and others to ID your plants (guess, ID, it's just semantics - you're looking for a name, right, and why not the right one?).

What gives is I figured a better picture would help get you that information - I guess it wasn't the suggestion you were looking for, though.

Hi again,

when I think of the hybrids coming increasingliy into the markets, you cannot rule out that either. The 1st could well be a S. Midnight Fountain (USDA 19328), the 2nd a Midnight Star.

(And for clarification, Helli takes HIS Sans seriously, but enjoying a good laugh now and then.)

Helli

Helli I also take them seriously, and I don't want to be terse like T-drone, I also would like better pictures, potted and standing up right. I would like to see the apex. I want to know the color of the rhyizomes, and see the runners/offsets, I want to know the texture. Karen are you growing these with enough light? my suffruticosa have stiff leave, in a tuft of leaves at the end of the rhizome growth. like a fountain that spirels. I have found much more to ID than Crassula. There are many S. suffruticosa that have channels, different widths, D channels, C channels ets. I've ruled out those that have short leaves. Feel the leaves and tell us exactly what you feel, coarse or fine sandpaper, on both sides, rhizomes or stolens. Howw long is the longest leaf and how wide, I know this is a pain in the neck. I think Helli know more than I do, names have been changing rapidly this past 5 years with a revision of tne NE Browwn monograph, the more I learn seems like the less I know, some bookds have switched pictures, of duplicate picture with both plants named the same and inaccurate information. Lots of misinformation. I will not guess for you, I either know it or I don't. But are difficult. I don't want to give you a wrong name. I rather not givie you any. If new gowth is coming out of the leaves and not the bottom very likly you may put a label as S.gracalis or S. Balyi 12681 now = 'Minnie. There is more than one form of Gracilis longer leaves than 'Minnie' but almost looks the same. 'Kitonga' look similar to your first plant but I doubt that it is, 'Tom Grumbley' could be one of your plants as well., and very likly 'Midnight Fountain' do you know where thse came from? and any information came with them? S. caulencens is also a candidate. Do the leaves have any grooves, My cannulata is long drooping leaves from to much shade. I now have four plants all with the label S. humiflora none of which look alike and I think Halli is the only one with the real plant. I received these plants from four different places, I am telling you this so you will understand why I must stick my head in the sand. hugs, Norma

Hello again Pirate Girl-
Don't be discouraged from posting future posts and more pics! All types of folks respond on these forums. Also, sometimes people write something quick, or do not proofread, and it comes off differently than they intended. Also, sometimes people misread others intentions....that is the disadvantage of responding in a forum vs. talking face to face. In any case, glad you are enjoying them. BTW, are the leaves on the last one fairly thick? It looks kind of like my 'Leopard Bat' (which I believe is a hybrid). They are not as thick as the S. hallis.....but thicker than most of the other Sans. Also I am glad to see Norma's response here!!!!

Thanks Woodnative,

I do appreciate your comments. I have had that happen elsewhere here (at GW) as well. I'll even confess to having been both the offended & the offender at various times, so I particularly know what you mean about going too fast & the sometimes different inferences taken in the written w/out other cues (inflection, facial expression, etc.) I unfortunately made a mess like this (but worse) elsewhere which was quickly yanked (after someone reported it, I'm sure).

About your last comment, yes the leaves on the last one are pretty thick, tho' not as thick as a baseball bat Sans. (one of which I almost got last week at a plant society meeting, but someone else beat me to it; he gave me dibs on the first pup).

I'm not new here or at GW, but never got that response before (Guesses are not IDs) & I have to say, it makes me think I shan't come here too often again. It was very unwelcoming & one is left thinking 'why did I bother?' I'm not a particularly thin-skinned person, but frankly, that to me, just said go away.

I have lurked here at Sans. a few years, long enough to recall Joe de Rosa seemingly posting alone here until Norma came back. Perhaps a few less comments like that & more folks would participate.

Jeff, your motive was clear to me, just surprising as I don't think those are dark pix. It was near my kitchen window, but a cloudy grey day.

Helli,

Thank you for elaborating further more constructively. However, seeing another thread of today about all the name confusion in Sans. collecting, it seems absurd to come at me like that given this. I'm also a Hoya collector & they too have their Nomenclature Madness. However, since I've collected them for a while I KNOW THAT TO BE FACT among the group, so I try not to get so caught up in it.

Is this the same Norma? My friend who has sometimes said we grow it for the plant & not for the name? If I didn't know the answer was yes, I'd be hard pressed to believe that.

The upshot was I was feeling so unwanted & unwelcome here that I posted a couple of other Sans pix (of pretty nice plants too) at C&S, where sadly few folks noticed them.

Hey PG-
Don't get frustrated...and don't be afraid to post again. Folks come and go...but I hate to see good folks go, and you will get different responses from different folks very time! It is great to share photos of plants and to hear everybody's experiences and observations with their plants.
I miss Joe DeRosas' posts....I actually work about 10 minutes from his home and got a couple of my first Sans from him a few years back. I enjoyed talking with him a lot, and seeing his collection, but he seems to have faded out. Also Russ Hammer was a great person to respond, though he may be busy with other things at the moment.
The leaves of my young 'Leopard Bat' are not AS Thick as my S. halli....but thicker than most Sans. I would happily share my S. halli but it is not big enough yet....started a couple years back as a single leaf....it has tripled in size, but it is still small!
Oh, another thoughts on IDs. There is a lot of confustion, and a lot of confused Sans plants out there. However, some of the "fancier" (more distinctive) plants shold be easy to identify, even from a photo. Likewise, if a plant comes from a big box store or large commercial nursery, it should be more readily identifiable, as it will be something more "common" (e.g. S. cylindrica). Of course, a plant from a collector or from a cactus and succulent show could probably be anything.
OK, now who wants to respond to my two I.D. photos over on the Aroid forum. NOBODY has made any response. I will not give up though.........

Karen are the channels the full lengh of the leaf? and very narrow, Cylindrica doesn't have channels, and the amount of leaves to a growth is important, they look like they have been grown in shade, and perhaps too much water or the soil may not be right. The long leaf suggests a cylincrica v patula, I just can't tell from the picture.
Karen I live in a semi-dry desert. I grow mine very hard, that is probably why I can't read the pictures , no name is better then the wrong name. I am judging one to be suffruticosa because of the short channels just to let the leaves out. Most of my suffruticoa have the very light leaves when they first emerge, later turning darker. As soon as you see a new growth starting out of a node between leaves you guess it is one of the suffruticossa clan. And there is one giant of the clan. are several of these, (about 10) S. gracilis, S. caulensence (spelling) San. ballyi 12681) the miniature of the clan, now called S. minnie. I left the old name on. S. Frosty spears, some have lines on the backs, and when they are dry for the winter, these are darker then the background. I have several others, and they are extremely difficult to tell apart unless you line them up by length of leaf, or girth of leaf. Now you know why any of us who has any sense at all will recline to pin it down, and would be fools to do so, this is reason why the names are all mixed up now, because the the so called experts want to be experts tend to pin a name on any different leaf they find. 'I have a different 'Moonshine leaf' I have been keeping still about this because it is not stable yet to warrent a sport name, 'Polka Dot' LOL it just may stick. hybrids may be named anything you want. This is also causing big problems, This is what they are doing renameing these plants, people buy names, not plants, sellers make more money this way, so I don't want to even venture into this practice. I think it is dirty pool and not fair and then charge more money because people like us think we have found sometning new. Would you want this to happen to you? This is what happed to you beacuse some of your members passed out a plant they they couldn't bother to get the name like you are trying to do. Just love them and enjoy them the plant doesn't care if it is not named and I'll just send you one that is, but I do need your address. Do you like stiff leaves or soft ones. What ever species I have exta of. Norma

Karen,
would you mind if I posted a few Sans. pictures I took last weekend?
I can make them small, clickable thumbnails so they don't overwhelm the Thread.
Some of them have names, and some are hybrids.
If not, no worries.


Josh

Hey Josh,

Sure you can, you don't have to ask me, tho' maybe why not make them a thread of their own? Or am I misunderstanding something?

You needn't make 'em smaller on my account, the more Sans the better, right?!

Beauties all, right?

I just finished repotting the 2nd one on this thread, found it had a sandy mix, I put it into a more gritty, pumicy, c&s kinda mix. We shall see!

Well, the pics aren't really Thread-worthy ;)
...but I think they would add nicely to this already existing Thread on various Sans.

Good move on replacing that sandy mix! Sandy mixes always feel so cold to my hands when I re-pot.

Okay, I'm off to gather pics.

Josh

Some slight imperfections on the right....
but the hybrid on the left is impeccable. I was very tempted by its blue color and clean form!

The last pic might have been a Moonshine or Moonglow, or something with the word 'moon' in it.

I wish they wouldn't braid the S. cylindrica, but each to their own. Not any of my business.

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Josh

Helli now I undersatand you better I won't get my feelings hurt. I hope I didn't hurt yours, I took it differently. And I'm sorry. I think I more or less the same as you. I Think at first new collectors, buy any plant by a name they don't have, as they get more experienced we get picky, when you by the same plant the second time different name but the same plant. With my training at the Huntington I am learning, but again I can't dare put a name on a plant unless the clues that I ask for are responded to. It seems names on her plants are really not the important because she want to keep it casual, but that is her choice. If the plant came from Jerry Barard I would call him and ask. Okay I have a plant that has gray leaves when first coming up, it also has green lines going from bottome to apex. The apex is white or gray, it will never get color. I am describing a new leaf that has a flat channel where the new leaf is coming out of this channel goes all the way to the tip. At the top of the leaf is has green banding, this young new plant which is coming up from the soil line is only 4" at the tallest leaf and it also has leaf sheaths. it feels like fine sandpaper.
The mother plant: The leaves are 14" to 16" tall, straight, more or less fan shaped, not a rosette, the are dark green with groves or furrurs all around 7-8 indented. because I am not watering, they will plump out when they get water. The leaf channel goes up 4" -5" then closes. The leaf sheath again under 5 inches, and has a flat channel. sharp apex which is hard, with a tiny 1/4" wick. The feel slighty like fine sandpaper. When I feel the outside of the leaf is feel like bumpy.

Karen this mataches your plant I then know what it is. I need your input, I am confused first you say you want to know then say it isn't important to you? So what is it? Norma

Hi Josh,

your Sans are well grown. S. trifasciata 'Moonlight' sits in the middel of your 2nd photo.

BUT. The name "Sansevieria Gasteria Marble" is complete nonsense. That is no Sansevieria. The true name for those plants is simply Gasteria Marble. Gasterias are nice in themselves but are related to Aloe and not at all to Sansevieria/Dracaena.

Helli

Thanks, Helli!
These pics are from a local greenhouse.

Copy that on the non-Sanseveria Gasteria!

Josh

Thanks Karen for posting here I will not be here again to offend any one for trying to help and telling the truth. I do appreciate you helping me, Norma

Well interesting that Helli says that, 'cause I wondered that too. I saw another post elsewhere (I believe by Josh) which showed this pic. Looks Like Gasteria, something like negricans or close to it. I wanted to ask why it said Sans, is it a cross or what?

So is it baloney then? As in nonsense? Glad to hear.

Hey Josh,

Well I thought they were other threadworthy (?) but OK. Nice assortment of Sans., large, small, tall & thin, short & squat. I'm partial to the very pale green leaves of Sans. Moonshine, reminds of sculpting marble. I wish they didn't darken up w/ age.

Gee I hadn't known they're now braiding Sans. in the US., I'd seen pix of it in Thailand (I think) but thought it was only there, yeah, not for me either.

Yes, Norma, I did want to know, but didn't care for my reception here & this testiness of you guys & this naming thing. I'd like to know the name but not enough to feel this discomfort about it, let it stay no ID then.

The net result is I felt discouraged from posting here & really felt it, yet feel silly about it.

But also feel a bit interrogated & I am not going to struggle w/ verbal descriptions like you're offering. It's too difficult & unwieldy, thanks all the same.