Just a thought-the seeds may not be fertile. The history of the Wave is a bit sketchy but it sounds as though there was much manipulating to get to this Petunia. Sometimes, all of this will lead to infertility in a type.

If you have had success with all else, I would bet this is a case of non-fertile seeds.

Linda

Linda, I didn't know that!
This is the second packet I have ever tried. Strange that they'd sell non-fertile seeds.

I *think* I see one popping up, but in any case, I planted five seeds in two different pots, hedging my bets, and they're in full sun... if one comes up, it's still a failure in terms of germination.

With seeds, generally, I am pretty lucky. I usually kill them later in life, haha.

I wouldn't expect low fertility in commercial seed (actually NO fertility). In saved seed, sure. But not the seed you buy in packets. Usually if something has a low germination rate - and that's legitimate for some seed - they'll tell you that on the packet or at least on the product page somewhere. Where did you get the seed? You could call and ask them about expected germination rates.

I haven't grown petunias in decades (childhood dead-heading induced trauma) but I don't recall them being particularly difficult to start from seed.

Have you successfully germinated other types of petunia in the past?

Petunias are one of those plants that needs light to germinate so - did you cover the seed by chance?

Did you bottom water or top water? IF you top water, petunia seed is so tiny, it would likely end up covered because it will tend to get washed down into your potting medium.

Did you have them under fluorescents or in sunlight? Petunia seed does better (for germination) under fluorescents than direct sun. I don't know if it has something to do with wavelengths of light or heat or intensity. If you had them in a window, try them under fluorescents. They probably need something in the area of 8 to 12 hours per day of light to (eventually) germinate.

Petunias have a reputation for being "slow to germinate" but I'm not really sure what people mean by that. It generally took a week or two, and that doesn't seem that "slow" to me. Are Wave Petunias supposed to be slower than that?

EDIT: AH! I see in one of your follow-on posts that you say you had them in full sun! That could be the issue! Try again under fluorescents. I don't know what it is, but for some reason petunia seed likes fluorescents better than actual sunlight. Must have something to do with light conditions wherever they were originally native. The PLANTS like full sun, but the seeds do not.

Actually in looking further, I see from this publication from Iowa State that the issue with sun seems to be heat. SO try again under fluorescents. I will post back with expected germination rates and emergence time when I find that information.

This post was edited by zensojourner on Mon, Sep 29, 14 at 13:07

In your first post you didn't mention that they were seeds you bought. I thought they were saved seeds! Saved seeds can often be sterile as the plant is a product of much manipulating which must be re-done to produce the plant again. They do not grow from seeds or will revert back to whence they came.

As a general rule-seeds should only be planted as deeply as their size. Petunia seeds are tiny so they should only be sown on top of the soil and lightly pressed in. If you are top watering, I would use a spray bottle. That way they would not be washed down into the soil mix as Zen says.

Also, in future endeavors, mix it up a bit, If natural light doesn't work, try lights. Or a different soil mix. Or a different something!

I would venture a guess that Wave are not strong germinators. A call to the company might provide some insight.

Linda

From what I have thus far been able to glean about this particular plant - I have an interest because I JUST yesterday told someone he should plant them and it would be EASY, LOL - anyway, here's what I have found so far.

• Expected germination rate seems to be 80% to 85%

• This particular petunia seems to do better if started with bottom heat in the 70F to 75F range. I don't think it WON'T start without bottom heat, but the germination rate is slightly higher and probably faster. Since its expensive seed ... I'd probably go for the heating mat, especially if you happen to already have one.

• Emergence times reported by people who have successfully started these are 3 to 15 days. Shorter emergence times were reported by those using bottom heat

• Seed seems to usually be sold pelleted - was yours pelleted? Frankly I don't get how that affects the whole needs-light-to-germinate thing. I am guessing the coating must dissolve rapidly once its in contact with moisture.

• Light cycle is reported to be 12 to 14 hours on (under fluorescents)

I actually called Parks about their Wave petunias but apparently their staff is so backed up that they won't be able to get back to me until tomorrow. But at this point my money is on something wrong with the light cycle. Were all your attempts being done in full sun?

Switch to fluorescents and your troubles may be solved.

When I started reading about petunias being "slow to germinate" I got pretty confused, because I don't remember them being particularly slow. It seemed to me they ought to be up in a week or two, and that does seem to be the case. I'm not sure why that has become thought of as "slow" - to me, slow germination is something on the order of a month or more, LOL! But a week or 10 days seems pretty normal to me.

While we're at it - how long had you had that packet of seed you last planted from? If the seed was pelleted - keep in mind that pelleted seed tends to degrade MUCH faster than "normal" unpelleted seed. Long-term viability is compromised by the pelleting process.

This post was edited by zensojourner on Mon, Sep 29, 14 at 13:41

It probably is me. I just don't know what about me, haha.
I don't have any fluorescent lights so generally speaking, if a particular seed requires indoor such lighting -- I just don't buy them.

These were in a spot that got about 4-5 hours of full sun, then shade. I brought it into the actual shade in the patio recently....it's still just sitting there like I'm nurturing soil.

The packet did say to sprinkle only on top of the soil (I used ProMix, nothing special) so that's what I did -- each time. As I often get all seedlings in one corner if I use the hose mister, I used a spray bottle with plain water in it.

This last time, it's not that big of a deal because I'm starting them at the wrong time anyway, but since I have so much more heat than I used to in San Francisco, I just gave it a shot. But history repeats itself and I'm peering into an empty plastic pot. Nada.

Zen, if something comes up within a month, I'm not inclined to call it slow. Four months is slow. SLOOOOOW. lol Never is really, really slow.

This last packet was probably with me about a year and a half -- half of which I planted back then to no avail, and the other half I just tried and apparently failed to succeed yet again. I'm out of seeds now, so bah humbug to wave petunias!! ;-)

Firstly, it isn't you. Its just that you have no fluorescents and these seeds won't tolerate direct sunlight.

Given that they say soil temp should be between 70 and 75F I'm going to hazard a guess that any time in the sun would be detrimental to their health. Where are you? Are you a zone 9A or 9B?

Either one makes me envious. Lately I seem subject to fits of jealousy over other people's grow-zones, LOL!

If the seed was pelleted, I'd guess (again) that viability was already reduced. Consider getting 2' fluorescents and hanging them from a shelf somewhere for just such occasions. They're nowhere near as expensive as they used to be. They don't have to be actual grow lights - those are stupid expensive for no particular reason except they're a boutique item. Most of us have been growing under cheap shop lights for decades.

Well decades ago we were growing under cheap shop lights. Cheap shoplights today are not what they were 30 years ago. Now I recommend shoplights of modest expense instead.

Of my last 4 cheap shoplights (purchased 6 or 7 years ago at Valdemart, the store who's name must not be mentioned) one failed utterly out of the box and another kept turning itself off after it had been on for awhile. It took me a couple of weeks to catch it doing that. By the time I got home for the evening watering, the lights were SUPPOSED to be off (they were on a timer). The remaining 2 lights were no great shakes either.

Total failure that year, and after that I had my hands full caring for my dad (and then health stuff of my own) ... so ... I've been buying my plants the last 5 years or so. I call it plant roulette. This year, a little over half my plants were what they were actually labeled. I got an "oriental" eggplant that was actually Slim Jim; a Chile de Arbole that is actually some variety of Thai pepper; and a supposed Bell pepper that is something totally unrecognizable, other than that it is clearly a pepper, LOL!

I actually still have those lights. My son's probably going to have kittens when I go out and buy new ones, LOL!

I will try to remember and try to start a few in shade outdoors come this spring. Late spring. I have a north facing porch where I could tuck a small container into a corner where it is in shade all day. No promises, but I'll try to remember.

I suspect it probably needs dappled shade to germinate outdoors but what the hey, I'm planning to end up with some anyway and pelleted seed doesn't hold up well to storage - so we'll give it a shot and see what happens. If nothing comes up, it probably just means that wasn't ENOUGH light. "Enough" being a relative term illustrating that I'm poking around in the dark. Or maybe the shade. Also pretty sure we don't get 12 hours of usable sun here. Very unscientific of me!

This post was edited by zensojourner on Mon, Sep 29, 14 at 20:07

OK they FINALLY called me back today. And wouldn't you know, all their servers have gone down. So much for the order I had in the cart, LOL!

Anyway. Here's what I got from what I could remember to ask them:

• Expected germination rate is 85% to 90%

• Recommended soil temp (for germination) is 70F to 75F. Temps outside that range will probably still germinate, but more slowly and perhaps with a reduction in germination rate if you get too extreme, about typical for other petunias with similar charcteristics

• Emergence time is expected to be about a week under ideal conditions (fluorescents, soil temp in 70-75F range); 10 to 15 days under less than ideal conditions. I'm not sure what the guy who got them to come up in 3 days had done - maybe he washed the pelleting off the seed first.

• light cycle for starting these light sensitive plants is 12 to 17 hours

And here's the kicker - since these are pelleted seeds, you have to dissolve the pelleting material or they won't germinate, which means you MUST top water or mist these seeds. Bottom watering is unlikely to dissolve the seed coat fast enough or completely enough to get good germination. I wonder if they put that on the seed packet, because it is certainly NOT mentioned online.

Top watering will still carry with it the risk of washing the seed down into the medium so you'd probably better mist. I called them back to check, and the pelleting material is fine clay, so it should dissolve and wash down off the seed fairly quickly. I don't see why you couldn't go back to bottom watering after that - but then my wrists are old and decrepit, like the rest of me, and misting may not be an issue (physically) for you like it is for me, LOL!

Personally I'm going to wash the seed, one by one, in one of my little glass bowls that I use for mise en place. The seed is small, that's true - but if its the ONLY seed in the bowl I should be able to grab it with tweezers, suck it up with an eye dropper, grab it by sticking it to the dry end of a toothpick, or some other transfer method. We'll see.

You MAY be able to get these to start in an east facing window or near south facing windows supplemented with house lighting, if you can get the requisite 12 hours minimum light on them.

I wouldn't put them IN a south facing window because if your southern exposure is anything like mine, even on a cool day, the sunward side of a black plastic plant pak can heat up to over 100F (I measured 106F yesterday). Today I am putting up a little "shade" barrier to prevent the heat from directly hitting the side of my flats, to see if that will bring those soil temps on that side down. I do turn my flats - but 106F is just unacceptable for even a short time.

I know you've kind of thrown up your hands over this one - but should you ever come into possession of some of these seeds again, maybe this information will be helpful.

This post was edited by zensojourner...

Since you have sown the seeds indoors but have not had success with it, why not try sowing the seeds then leave them outdoors through the winter?
I have had tremendous success with Winter Sowing.
How is it done?
1. Sow seeds in good potting soil in a deep container such as milk jugs, salad containers, 2 liter soda bottles, etc.
2. Cover the container to protect the seeds from downpours but make allowance for light, drainage and ventilation.
3. Set the container outside through the winter. No grow light, no pampering, no root rots, no hazzle.
{{gwi:249512}}

The seeds will germinate when the temperature is right. The seedlings do not grow as big as those you buy from garden centers, but they grow fast and healthy.
This is Petunia 'Laura Bush' 3 weeks after transplanting:
{{gwi:215415}}
6 weeks after transplanting:
{{gwi:215416}}
10 weeks after transplanting:
{{gwi:215417}}

Check out the Winter Sowing forum. You will be surprised what you can grow with this method. The biggest plus is that you can get a lot of seeds for the cost of postage and a bubble envelope. The folks there are also extremely friendly and helpful.

I plan to build a petunia tower next year. I went into my yard and I got some seeds from Walmart Petunias. I used the paper towel method, just to see if they would germinate. Guess what, it worked. I didn't pot them up but I just wanted to see if they would germinate. Try it and then pot them up. I used a piece of paper towel (1-ply) and wet it a little. I put the seeds in and folded the paper towel then I put them on a piece of Styrofoam paper plate and put it all in a ziplock bag in front of my window. It took about a week or so but they germinated. Look on YouTube. That is where I got my idea from.

Pitimpinai -

Our "cold" is really not as impressive as yours. They'd be in about 40-50 lows for the winter. Would that still work, I wonder?

LilFarmGirl:
I'll have to try that in the spring. Sounds simple enough. I've always had a pretty good germination right -- more often than not with most of the seeds germinating. It's more a matter of whether I have to thin or can I possibly pull one out without disturbing the other, haha.

Zen: I brought the little pot inside to see if that helps. Who knows - by now all of the seeds could have blown away or eaten by the hummingbirds for all I know....and I'm nurturing a pot of soil, lol. I have a bunch of seeds starting now in the window, so I figured what the hell.

The ones at the end in the square seed pot is where the petunias were planted....and where they plan to live forever, seemingly. Frankly, I'm not even sure why I'm starting these right now. At the rate they are popping up, I'll be living in a jungle by January. I only did 1 or 2 seeds per cell but the evening stock, salvia spathacea, pineapple sage, cerinthe and tweedia have all come up.

Not sure what I plan to do with these...

At lows in the 40s, my bet is the seed would just blow away or rot before they can sprout if you tried the "overwintering" thing. Wave petunias are a tad expensive for that!

I had temps getting up well over 100F (soil temps, not air temps) when I had my seed starts in my sunny window. However, it's kind of a window WELL - set about 18" into a nook. I don't know if that concentrates the heat somehow or what. But the sunward side of my seed flat (which is, of course, black) hit 106F before I got scared and tried to shade it with paper towels. Which sort of worked - brought the temp down 10 to 15F.

Now I have them all under lights. And THAT gets way hotter than I would have thought, over 100F sometimes if I don't put the fan on them.

You know I never USED to take so much care with my seedlings. It was into the flats, into a window or under the lights, in a dark, dank old-style basement with old-fashioned buzzing fluorescents hanging from shelves made of cement blocks and lumber - and they came up or they didn't - and they have nearly always come up.

I never owned a heat mat (in over 40 years) until just a month or so ago. Never took soil temp. According to the experts, I did everything WRONG and all my peppers and eggplants and most of my tomatoes should just have rotted in their non-official potting mixes.

And yet somehow nearly everything I've ever put to the soil came up. I don't know whether or not my plants are any better off now that I have gadgets to measure soil and air temp, and things to heat up root zones, and fans to cool and strengthen the starts - but I know *I* am sure more of a nervous wreck, LOL!