I would suggesting buying some sheared wood mulch, because that is what I use. If I was just using paper towels, since I don't use newspapers, the finished compost would lack body. Body is a kind of fullness in the finished compost. Before I started doing this, I just did not get very much finished product. It depends on whether you just want to recycle or if you really want lots of compost for the garden. But, the grass when dried becomes a brown, so maybe if you make some compost and find it lacking then try other browns. I don't think it will be a problem either. It just depends on your happiness with the result.

Hi Potatopotata,
That will be fine until you can find other browns, any brown will work in a pinch ;-)

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Wow, jonhughs, those are some serious browns! :0

I'm feeling some SERIOUS backhoe envy, here!

Paper lacks nutrients that other sources of "browns", such as leaves, would have so while the bacteria will work at digesting what you put in the compost the compost you put on your garden may not be the nutritious stuff you think.
What else besides grass clippings, which will have some nutrients other than Nitrogen, do you have to mix in?

One of the main benefits of composting is reducing your input into the waste stream. Rather than lamenting your abundance of shredded paper, celebrate the fact that you are conserving landfill space for more appropriate refuse!

Compost on!

Jon, are you not wearing hearing protection? tsk, tsk.

Lloyd

I can't hear anymore...what did you say ;-)

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Paper, lacking other inputs, is less than ideal, but far better than nothing. It is a great way to reduce inputs into the waste stream, but all compost benefits from maximizing the diversity of inputs, whether "green" or "brown." Even small additions of other components will help to increase the micro-nutrient availability of the final product, so keep on the look-out for alternative things to add. Many composters keep a plastic bin or bags in the car simply to have a way to retrieve the random inputs they come across in their routine travels.

But, paper can be recycled instead. Wet newspaper can go in the city compost bins. Don't you people have programs for that? Since I do I can be picky about what I put in the bin.

It depends on where they live, Tropical. Being in San Fran I'm sure you have excellent recycling. Lots of places have little to no recycling opportunities.

That said, I agree with your premise that recycling is better than composting if possible.

I would hate to have to buy browns, but the wood chips are an option. Do you have any kind of yard waste dump or yard waste mulching facility where you could get some leaves or shredded limbs free? How about sawdust from woodworkers or cabinet shops?

Problem?

No.

Lloyd

I'm new at this so bear with me; doesn't paper come from the same place as shredded tree limbs and sawdust? If I'm going to buy "brown" material, wouldn't it make more sense to buy straw or hay, or some other non-wood?

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to learn.

The majority of the browns in my compost pile are shredded junk mail.

I use leaves for mulch, mostly. After I mulch all my planting beds, I don't have any leaves for compost. In fact, I have to go scrounging for more leaves to mulch all my beds.

What makes the most sense is to use what you can get for free.... leaves and junk mail are free.

I can't imagine buying something just to compost it. Now if I buy straw bales to use for a fall pumpkin display and then end up composting them later - that's okay. :-)

Why should composting be free? Think about the time you put in composting. It is better to spend a bit to improve the results. Most hobbies and interests are not free or cheap, very few are free or cheap. Junk mail has toxic chemicals in the paper and inks. Consider cooking, if you want to be a good cook you need quality foods to start out with. You then create a wonderful creation that feeds your body and your soul.

Tomatotomata - There is no reason to buy browns if free paper is available. As stated earlier, lacking other "unprocessed" brown material, free paper is a good place to start. There are some advantages to almost every type of input, including even woody ones, which add lignin, encourage a different form of decomposition (fungal), and therefor increase the biological diversity of the process. Very few composters need, or should, purchase "brown" inputs... in areas where they are not freely available, it is likely an indication that the climate is unsuitable for gardening in the first place. With a minimum of ingenuity and some basic transportation, almost any habitable environment should be producing some form of carbonaceous material.

I'm more of a supporter of an individualistic approach. Do what you want to do and how you want to do it. If you want to purchase inputs, by all means do so. If you want to be as frugal as possible, more power to you. If you don't want to compost but want to actively participate there are methods for that as well. I'm happy you are asking questions and seem to be making an effort, good on you.

Lloyd

I agree with Lloyd. Every individual develops a compost style that works for them.

Free works for me, but that doesn't mean everyone has to do it the same way.

But having your primary brown be paper is not a problem. Keep in mind that most of your green items contain a significant amount of carbon too.

Straw is $6 for a square bale at the farm supply here, so I might as well buy some premium cotton burr compost - $40 for the same price. I'd get more for the money. But I did forget to list straw, and if a person can find some cheap or free...

Yes, paper does come from wood, good point. Although the papermaking process removes a lot of 'stuff' from the wood to leave clean fibers, stuff which might (I don't know for sure) have micronutrients that don't find their way into the paper.

Tropical, please back up your claim about toxic inks with at least one credible source of data or a list of ingredients. I am very interested in this topic and have yet to find any definitive information.

tomato, My main source of browns is also paper. When I have other browns to add, I do, but there are few decidious trees in my area for leaves and when I spend money for compost, I buy actual compost. My hope is that the wide variety of greens (kitchen scraps, prunings, etc) will help to balance out the nutrients. It amazes me how much paper my 7 year-old brings home from school.

Paper is what I have now. However, I am hoping to plant some ornamental grasses that will supply me with more browns for starting new compost piles in the spring (lawn clippings are not available in my rural area, and also not practical). As my plants grow and as I plant deciduous trees and they grow, I will someday have more leaves which will be added to the paper, but $6 for a bale of straw will get me 2-3 perennials at the nursery, which is what I would prefer to spend my limited funds on.

We already did this. I posted a link for toxic junk mail, if you Google it you will find, but the unbelievers refused to believe it. Google the words toxic junk mail.

Google non-toxic junk mail.

Because of the price of oil, most inks are soy based now. I have a friend who owns a printing business. The industry has gotten away from many of the toxics, simply for worker safety reasons but other cost considerations as well, less ventilation requirements, simpler disposal of their waste, and several other very good reasons.

I have a letter from the editor of my local paper who certifies that there is nothing toxic in the local paper.

I think about those magazine for women with perfume in the pages in particular, they make me sneeze. I don't think anyone did a study in which they composted lots of junk mail and then tested the soil after a few years. If there anything toxic in the soil it would too late, the soil would be ruined. But, I don't care that much because I won't compost junk mail. What is harmful is inks and beaches used on paper. But, I don't know if the chemicals would be flushed away over time. But, why risk it, when junk mail can be recycled? Junk mail does not have a lot of nutrition for your plants. But, I never composted junk mail, so I don't know exactly what would happen. I don't want to be a test garden for junk mail.

tropical,

Even if there's a problem, wouldn't it be better to spread out the "toxic" or "harmful" junk mail, than to concentrate it in landfills?

One of the reasons I compost is to reduce my waste stream inputs. My neighbors can't put the lid on their trash can at the end of a week, my trash can fill up once a month. We both have families of four. We compost (and recycle), they don't.

Landfills are places that are not your personal property. I don't see why one would compost junk mail that could be recycled. If the soil in a landfill is ruined, at least you don't own that soil.

In San Francisco they give you a little garage can. If you fill it up too much you pay more, a lot more, so everyone recycles and composts. They have cans for each. Each can is colored.

I only compost to improve my soil. Anything I don't want to compost such as weeds with seeds go in the compost can. It is taken to a big compost dump. Then it is sold or given to places like farms. I can't figure exactly where these are, because they won't disclose that information.

OK, I Googled Toxic Junk Mail. I confess I only looked at the first page of results, but the only ones even remotely related to this topic were: 1) a lady writing a blog claiming that junk mail causes breast cancer just from handling it (no references cited) and 2) THIS THREAD.

Thought that was kinda funny. :-D

I reiterate: recycling is best, compost if you have to, and don't compost it if you don't want to. I'm not trying to make anyone do anything.

joepye, thanks for the actual account from someone in the printing industry!

Alright I could not find either, I had to go back to what I posted and re Google it to find this. While it does say this is from burning it, like I said, no one did a study about composting it. I don't think anyone will bother to do such a study, and it is not a big deal. If you want to compost junk mail, go ahead, it's your soil.

Here is a link that might be useful: toxic junk mail link

I had a friend who was burning his junk mail. I told him, omg my, lung cancer. He did not believe me. I found him this link, so that is why I had the link to begin with. But, if junk mail filled with bad chemicals, why put that in your soil? My soil is the foundation upon which I build my garden. It is not a trash pit.

I don't burn junk mail or newspaper ads in my woodstove either. Mostly because I have a recycling outlet. And, I'll admit, even a tiny amount of heavy metals can ruin the Pt/Pd catalytic combustor and I don't want to take the chance.

As for a lot of that other stuff listed on that link, most of them are not things that are initially present but would be formed during incomplete combustion: chlorinated dioxins and furans for example.

I don't buy the benzene, toluene and methyl chloroform as risks related to composting paper. They are too volatile to last in dried inks and won't be there.

Metals are quite durable and if present in the ink, would be found in the compost. If.

It would be really interesting to do such a study! I might look into it. The cost of the lab analysis would be the major thing.

It would be easy. Just take two identical plot in your garden. Compost junk mail and add that to one of them. Add just plain compost to the other. Measure it in a few years and see if there is anything odd in the soil. It matters more if you want to eat foods from your garden, but on the other hand I knew someone who was dumping water with Windex in it on this rose, growing over on the side. I talked to him, but he refused to stop. Then he died. The rose did a lot better after that. The rose could handle the Windex, but it was better without it. But, it did not curl up and die under the Windex treatment.

He would wash his windows and dump the water on the rose, thinking he was helping it. So, maybe some plants would grow ok with chemicals in the junk mail that had been composted, but if I eating the plants as food, I would be more worried.
I told him that Windex has harmful chemicals. I give great advice and no one listens to me.

Windex has ammonia, alcohol, detergents and dye. The alcohol, and detergents would be bad for plants, but the ammonia can actually be good for plants - perhaps that is why his plants didn't die.

I'm guessing it was the ammonia throwing the pH pretty high that stressed it. But who knows. I couldn't guess what a little alcohol or surfactants would do to plants.

Tropical, I would do the junk mail composting study this way: make identical compost piles, identical ingredients except the paper is white office paper or B/W newsprint in one, and colored prints in the other. Measure the resulting compost for (___). I would be most interested in metals, because most of the organics in inks are going to be relatively biodegradable.

Of course it might be simpler to just analyze some shredded paper for a range of metals and use the results to predict metal concentrations in compost.

And there's a second reason to stick to something simple like metals. As an analytical environmental chemist, I know that you can't just take a sample to the lab and say "What's in it?" Anything biological, from plant tissue to soil, will have literally thousands of different chemical compounds. You could write a dissertation on 'what's in a carrot?' You have to focus on something specific in order to look for it. When I was at the env. lab in grad school, someone from the University Hospital once brought us a donut and asked us what was in it. We laughed pretty hard. :-]

Another approach to the general healthiness of the compost would be more of a bioassay, such as growing seedlings in the compost and comparing growth rates. Similar to the tests makers of pesticides are required to do in which worms are grown in treated and untreated soil.

I think he thought the ammonia was like a plant food for the rose.

And it is... the ammonia binds with water and forms nitrates and nitrites that are useful for plants.

pH is only an issue if the soil is acidic to begin with...
where I live the soil is so alkaline a gallon of windex isn't going to affect the pH.

Back to the ways to get more browns discussion... How about contacting your local 4-H or county extension office for sources? I work with high schoolers on a non-ag project but we produce a fair amount of woodworking type shavings. If I knew that someone wanted the shavings, it would be easy to put a box or bucket under the saw to catch them.

Offer at your local feed store / Agway / Tractor Supply to inexpensively buy broken or ripped packages or bales of bedding material.

I'm sure there are other really inexpensive sources of non-printed browns out there...

regarding the toxicity of junk mail, there are rules and regulations in place that set limits in the amount of heavy metals in products and packaging. Most printers, including those doing bulk mail, have switched to soy inks in order to comply with rules like TCPH (see link) that limit the cumulative amount of 4 common heavy metals to 100 parts per million or less. Any reputable company that wants to protect their brand will likely be in compliance with this legislation.

I manage product compliance and spend 6 figures a year testing our products with independent testing labs. I would be surprised if you found any detectable difference in a pile using bulk mail vs. other browns.

I acknowledge up front that I am more extreme than most, but I personally try to stick with the paper with the least amount of ink on it. I tend to avoid pieces with full color, full coverage or glossy coatings. Then again, we try to eat organic or all natural foods. I figure if I don't eat things with food color in them, then I don't want to grow my food in ink colorant either, even if the FDA says it is safe. FDA is a minimum standard in my mind.

Now for why I found this thread in the first place. I am having trouble heating up my piles of grass clippings and am mixing in shredded paper. I have been turning it and adding a little water as I go. Any tips to get it going?

I found this thread looking for a way to balance my lawn clippings

Here is a link that might be useful: TCPH legislation

Ive been doing the same thing. Lots of grass clippings and lots of shredded junk mail on top of fruits and veggies and coffee grounds. No I dont use "magazines" with glossy paper and printed adds with perfume on them. Ive been doing this for about 2 weeks now and when I stick my hand down into my pile it is HOT!

Companies go with what is CHEAP to minimize costs and increase profit. If soy based inks are cheaper, they will use them. Either way, %99 of my junk mail is black and white with minimal color. Anything else goes into the recycling bin

..
WRT alternate sources of browns - consider your local tree services. Careful that you don't end up with more than you need.

WRT to paper as a sole source for browns - yeah it's fine. But I think you know that already.

WRT toxic junk mail - yes domestic printing seems to have steered way from toxic inks but anything that might have been printed overseas is origin unknown to me and I won't trust it. If you want something to make you itch, think about office paper and all that plastic toner from laser printers and photocopiers. It's non-toxic but it is plastic. I will continue to compost office paper as long as I can get bags of shredded stuff free. Frankly I'm a little more worried about what I might step in in a parking lot.

WRT recycling v composting - I'm on the fence on what is the better path. Recycling is often energy intensive. With a suitable time horizon I could see composting as a more attractive path forward.

WRT why should composting be free? With the gargantuan waste stream this country produces, people pay a lot of money to get rid of that much waste. San Francisco has to pay, one way or another, to compost all that happy stuff let alone dispose of all the non-compostables.

When I started out composting I was into making as much compost as fast as possible but now I'm more into digesting as much waste as I can as opposed to producing compost. There are some localities around here that will discount your trash pick up if you go through the pain and agony of going through the composting certification thing.

I'm not eager to foist my waste onto someone else by flushing it down the toilet or leaving it by the curbside to be picked up and out of my sight. I still have to do that but little by little I do a little less.

to sense
..

regarding the toxicity of junk mail, there are rules and regulations in place that set limits in the amount of heavy metals in products and packaging. Most printers, including those doing bulk mail, have switched to soy inks in order to comply with rules like TCPH (see link) that limit the cumulative amount of 4 common heavy metals to 100 parts per million or less. Any reputable company that wants to protect their brand will likely be in compliance with this legislation.

I manage product compliance and spend 6 figures a year testing our products with independent testing labs. I would be surprised if you found any detectable difference in a pile using bulk mail vs. other browns.

I acknowledge up front that I am more extreme than most, but I personally try to stick with the paper with the least amount of ink on it. I tend to avoid pieces with full color, full coverage or glossy coatings. Then again, we try to eat organic or all natural foods. I figure if I don't eat things with food color in them, then I don't want to grow my food in ink colorant either, even if the FDA says it is safe. FDA is a minimum standard in my mind.

Now for why I found this thread in the first place. I am having trouble heating up my piles of grass clippings and am mixing in shredded paper. I have been turning it and adding a little water as I go. Any tips to get it going?

I found this thread looking for a way to balance my lawn clippings

Here is a link that might be useful: TCPH legislation

Rocky, thanks very much for that link. If memory serves you are the first person I've talked to about metals in inks who is actually connected to the industry and has at least some level of direct knowledge. I was not aware of the TCPH legislation and will read up on it.