It looks brown to me.

There are some real experts here that may chime in soon. In the meanwhile, to dispel the color confusion, here's my humble contribution. Weeds are usually considered a green (meaning high in nitrogen/protein) but slightly less so when dried. The fact that they may have matured and dried before being cut may change that and increase the carbon (brown) proportion.

Keep in mind, lovestogrow, that coffee grounds are a green, so color is not always a very good indicator! Green means nitrogen/protein, brown means carbon.

Hepatica

If they were dead and dried out when they were mowed down they are in all likelihood a brown. How strong of a brown is anybodies guess.

Keep in mind this weed material may have seeds with it.

Lloyd

Thanks everyone!

This is pretty much the only "brown" I have access to in a large enough quantity until fall when the trees lose piles of leaves down the street. I figured since grass is a green, that these may be a green too because it was a mix of grassy weeds and mustard plants etc.

I'm not concerned about weeds too much because I intend to amend the soil with it for the most part and I don't have that much area too cover so weeds are not a huge problem (well, I've never dealt with them yet so maybe they are worse than i know!)

So dried grass would be a brown? I have some mowed grass today so it would be good to know how long I can leave it before putting into the pile!

Also does anyone know if these are likely to have any chemicals?

Thanks!

Composting those weeds will be a hideous disaster due to the weed seeds. Mulch will not stop aggressive weed seeds. Hot composting often does not kill them either. They find ways to survive.

You think it will be that bad, huh? What if I bury them under the ground? I was gonna use the compost as an amendment to the clay soil we have here. And still waiting to see if anyone knows for sure?

Another perspective on weed seeds -- I mulch with hay, so maybe I'm not the best person to ask (hay is full of weed seeds) but I stopped worrying about weed seeds in my compost a while back. What I do is watch the compost, and see if stuff is sprouting in it. If it is, I turn it back in. If it has turned to black, crumbly stuff with nothing growing in it, then I'll use it. Even quack grass roots eventually die.

If you've got neat raised beds that could possibly remain relatively weed free, then you may not want to "contaminate" them with weed seeds. But if you're dealing with a large garden where the clay needs lots more OM, then you may want to risk the weed seeds for the sake of all that compostable material. You're going to have to weed anyway, since weed seeds blow in and are dropped by birds, etc.

Let It Rot (the book) says go ahead and use weeds in compost, even those gone to seed. Just make sure your pile heats up.

Heres' what they say about the C/N ratios: that 25 or 30:1 is the best ratio for the pile, and grass clippings are 25:1. But then they say that dried hay is quite high Carbon (greater than 25). So you STILL don't have your answer, even from The Gardener's Guide to Composting! (I mean, are your weeds more like grass clippings, or more like hay?) Maybe assume they're a little on the brown side, and add some greens like manure or fresher grass clippings, or veggie scraps, to make sure there is enough N.

"Hot composting often does not kill them either."

Every reputable source on composting confirms that if a person achieves high enough temperatures, seed destruction is almost assured.

"So dried grass would be a brown?"

Grass cut while it is living and then dried would be considered a green. This is what hay is.

"Also does anyone know if these are likely to have any chemicals?"

Good question about the chemicals as well, why were the weeds dead before they mowed them? If a persistent (resistant to degradation) herbicide was used there may very well be residuals.

Lloyd

Nice reply elisa_Z5. Agreed.

silent88,

Since this is near your home, you already have the same weeds... I would assume. I would think about what weeds were growing over there, since there are a few that are so hard to deal with, I might not want to take the risk. Bindweed for example.

That said, I take a half of a pickup load of weedy grass clipping from my neighbor every weekend as he mows a variety of lawns. It's his way of helping friends, mostly single women. Clever guy. LOL. I can see what's in the piles ( a real mix but mostly heavy in dandelions and clover) and have never had problems with the seeds coming from my finished compost. Like elisa_Z5, if I see weeds sprouting in the compost, I turn them back in...more green !

I think it's a matter of no compost before it's time. That and skipping bindweed (field bindweed), morning glory (hedge bindweed), blackberry, and English ivy. I have my limits. I know intellectually those would also compost just fine, but since I have been fighting them back for over thirty years in my garden, I'm just not trusting myself to not mess up and be adding them back with an accidentally overlooked piece. It's a phobia thing.

Just looking at the picture and hearing the story, that all looks like nice compost material. There may well be some action started already, since I'm sure it was a mix of green and brown when it was cut. So well shredded for you too. This situation may be ongoing for at least a few more years, so this first trial compost pile can be your science experiment. Keep an eye on it as you add kitchen scrapes and turn at least parts of it on a regular basis. You should learn a lot, and with this volume, it will most likely be a very successful pile. :)

Lloyd,

I missed the part about possible herbicide use.

One other possibility is it's just that time of year for some of them to be brown and dead. We have a large vacant lot here in the city that grows weeds and grasses. When it starts looking pretty darn brown because of the time of year, I know the rent a goat guy is on the way. I went past last week and there were the goats ! They're so cute. :)

Thanks so much everyone! :) I don't specifically know what those weeds mentioned are, but there's no way blackberries would grow here in the clay, with so little rain. I also have gotten most of the same weeds in this yard and none seem to be "root-spreading"?

And I doubt there are herbicides used, I just wanted to check other opinions. I live in southern california and we get rain in the spring, everything turns green and grows, and then it all dies in the summer. I assume if nature were to take it's course, the stuff would burn up in wild fires. I think it was a fire hazard and the law makes them cut it down.

This stuff looks like hay to me almost. So wouldn't that make it a green?

Still not sure what this counts as though :S Because I have grass clippings and I was gonna go to the beach and collect seaweed (if it's legal), both of which are greens. I don't really have any browns for now... unless I go hunting for some dried leaves. The trees down the street which are empty may have some piles...

Also plaidbird, I think you are correct. When I dug into it a lot of it was darker brown/black and looked like it was just a little bit powdered white.

I avoid the terms 'greens and browns' as they confuse me.
Eg coffee grounds are rather brown in colour, but very 'green' by nature...
I think getting a general picture of carbon and nitrogen's roles is invaluable. I'm not suggesting learning specific carbon:nitrogen ratios of anything, but I think some terminology that's supposed to make things simpler, actually makes things harder.
You'll get plenty of different opinions on weed seeds.
I say "meh". I use other people's grass in my cold compost and in (thick) mulch and have no issues.
BUT lawn grasses round me are generally easy-to-kill clumping varieties and as has been mentioned, there's some stuff you'd be nuts to introduce, like convolvulus.

Yea but I don't want to add too much nitrogen so I'm trying to figure out what this is. I want to add grass clippings, coffee grounds, seaweed, and veggie/fruit scraps. All of which are high nitrogen. So I'm hoping this stuff is high carbon cus there is TONS!

Sounds like we have a new, soon to be successful, composter with us !

When composted grasses first start to decompose they get a white fungus, which then turns to a powdery white looking substance. The others here can add the exact names of all that. I just know how it works. In my picture I can see the white powder stuff starting to show up on the very top of that little handful.

Last week my neighbor was feeling especially frisky, and mowed his little heart out. I got grass clippings three days in a row. By the last load I was so tired of hauling grass, I set up a new bin close by where he leaves it for me, in the space I use for the coldest part of the winter. Guess I'll give it an early start.

I just went out and took a picture to show you what happens in the early stages. This is 6 days old, and I've only had time to add some shredded paper. It is mostly green grass, but has plenty of bark, dirt, old leaves, and dried out old weeds..all of those 'brown'. I have plenty of old leaves still to clean out from various backs of garden areas, from last fall. It takes me a full year to get all of them. ...sigh... I have my own little city forest here.

It sort of sounds like yours is just a bit older ?, plus the differences in the grasses and our climates. I'm up here in Portland Oregon, where it's still cool and raining,but in no time we'll start complaining about the heat.

I bet if you took a tarp over there and piled till it's still easy to pull home, you could have a pretty good size pile without too much work. With a new pile I most often just keep adding and tossing thing around, since at that point my piles are not ginormous. Once I have a good base, it's easy to be aware and only add the closer to correct amount of greens and browns. If I had to have all the ingredients, in the right proportions, before I started, it would never happen.

Good luck and have fun. :)

Thanks for the encouragement and the picture. :) That is what it looked like only less white, lol.

I'm still a bit lost on what to add to this pile. :S Carbon or nitrogen?

Ok, I was just trying to add a little humor. I would think that it would be a nitrogen source instead of carbon.

It always confused me about leaves being a source of nitrogen but then falling off and being a source of carbon until Lloyd said what he said about it dying then turning to a carbon source. Thanks for clarifying that.

Again my comment was just a try at a little humor.

Aren't we the odd ones. Sharing pictures on the internet of our rotting grass. LOL :)

In about a week mine will not have so much white. This is just where it starts.

Sounds like you have lots of greens, so probably the effort will be the browns. It will all turn into compost , but the nice mix just turns out a nicer, fluffier end product. All green can be stinky too for awhile but with your lovely warm weather, I would think that would pass sooner than it would up here. This pile of mostly grass right now doesn't smell unless I turn it. It's formed a nice drier layer on top that seems to seal the odor in because even though it's still raining, this particular pile is in a closed top bin. Once I have more time at home, I'll scrounge up some leaves, stir stuff around and it will probably loose the smell all together by the next day. Till then it's busy doing it's thing, and I'm further along that I would have been.
Cook little pile, cook.

In the past I have had almost no greens and excessive amounts of leaves that took years and years to break down. Seems a common situation, folks having too much of one or the other. Though yours right now looks like it has some of each, so that's a great start.

Darn! I was really hoping it was a brown. From my research I feel like it may be a mix?

I have a few more questions about composting if anyone doesn't mind answering. =)

Firstly, I have some big cardboard boxes that are currently in the recycle bin. I could use these as browns, but no idea how to shred them... any tips?

Are paper towels okay? Do they have chemicals?

Let's just say I did this:

60% weeds mix, 20% grass/coffee grounds/kitchen scraps/eggshells, 15% seaweed, 5% cardboard.

How would that work and... how long would it take? Seems too out of balanced for nitrogen but that's almost all I have.

Could I do it as an open pile in full sun with no tarp?

Also I have read about layering, but then it says to mix the stuff. Can't I just mix it all at once?

Sorry for so many questions and thanks again!

Pictures are of what the "stuff" I showed pictures of was before it was ground up.

Regarding weed seeds, get the book by Charles Walters, "Weeds, control without poisons" and the mad concerns about the effects of importing weed seeds will greatly lessen.

I use quite a bit of paper and cardboard in my (cold) pile.
I roughly tear paper up and throw it on. I try to get it a bit separated as it can really stick together.
Boxes I usually plonk in up the right way and proceed to fill with scraps etc. Sometimes I tear them apart, but they generally go in whole.
I have no worries about toxins. Inks are nearly always soy based and 'shiny' is just polished clay. Paper towels? Absolutely.
I have old carpet on my pile, which I find great for gas exchange, keeping moisture in and flies out.
Full sun and no cover sounds like a recipe for dryness to me, and sun is too valuable for me to waste on compost, which doesn't appreciate it.
I don't worry about c:n balance, but I have found a box filled with old pumpkins, newspaper, maybe some UCGs is just about right!

Even if you can get very hot the edges of the bin will not get hot enough, even if you turn there will be some seeds that will survive.

Lloyd compost on a huge scale with much larger bins in which he is able to kill the weeds. But, for the average person with an average size bin that does not even turn like Lloyd big steel bins. I found I can't kill off the weed seeds especially seeds of weedy grass like poa annua. When I had a lawn, I wanted to compost the clipping, but I would end up with 1,000 of poa annua everywhere I put the compost and it could keep sprouting for years. Each time you disturb the soil for any reason you uncover more of the weed seeds and they sprout. Even weeding your soil leads to more weeds sprouting when the soil is turned. And it makes new seed in less then one week, so you will never get out of the hole. Unless you like spending a few hours weeding daily.

Lloyd also uses small systems such as the EarthMachine, wire bin and a 45 gallon tumbler.

It is possible to destroy the seeds even in a small composting system.

Lloyd

I don't think there is a danger of too much nitrogen in that dried grass/weeds if it was cut after browning. Most hay I've bought has been at least somewhat green in color which is one way to tell whether it was processed properly to retain nutrients. I wouldn't buy hay that was all brown in color to feed livestock altho I know some ranchers do as it's cheaper but it's low in nutrients (protein/nitrogen). OK for compost tho. I also doubt anyone sprayed that stuff as that costs money and most municipalities don't spend unnecessarily. So if you are willing to chance the weed problem it should be OK. A lot of composting is trial and error so you might consider this your personal scientific trial for this year! :-D

Don't leave grass clippings in a pile for very long as they become aerobic and extremely stinky which I know from experience. They will cause a compost pile to heat quickly tho.

I'm very much at the low tech, low fuss end of the composting spectrum. Like feijoas and pnbrown I do not worry about weeds in the compost, except convolvulus. I also do not worry about heat or C:N. As others have said, if weeds sprout I just put them back in the compost heap. After a while the store of weed seeds in the ground diminishes and there is very little weeding to do. Anyway weeding is one of the processes of gardening like sowing, watering, bug patrolling and harvesting. And I like gardening. This approach has not resulted in 'a hideous disaster' in my garden, at least not for the several decades I've been following it.

I would use the stuff shown in the photos without any concerns at all once I'd checked on the herbicide issue.

Isn't it true that most everything you put in the compost is part C and part N, so no matter what, you do have a mix?

Tropical thought, sounds like you have one nasty weed there. Probably the answer is for each of us to know our "local" weeds and use that knowledge to decide on weed seeds in compost. I have quack grass, which is so much worse than anything local that spreads by seed, that all other weeds pale by comparison.

Darth finds it funny that Lloyd talks about himself in the third person.
What was once only in the lexicon of star athletes and rap moguls now enters the composting world.

"Isn't it true that most everything you put in the compost is part C and part N, so no matter what, you do have a mix? "

Yes. And no matter what you do, nature will eventually make compost out of it. :-] Our manipulations are all about optimizing for speed, quality and quantity.

Lloyd can be a funny guy sometimes.

;-)

Lloyd

Elisa, that photo, looked like lots of different weeds. It hard to tell. I only have dandelions, poke weed, and hairy bitter crest now, I dumped the lawn, so poa annua can't hide in the lawn. Still it seems as if new weeds sprout daily and I have not let them seed nor do I compost weeds with seeds, but I still have so very many sprouting daily. I get them all out, only to find many more the next day. But, those oxiles (clovers) still appear from time to time. I still see poa annua now and then. I just could not see adding more weed seeds just a get a little bit of matter for the compost.

tropical_thought - I can only speak from my own experience but I have never bothered about adding weeds to the compost, except Calystegia sepium. After the initial pass over derelict land if you keep on top of the cultivation there are not many seeding weeds going into it anyway. Keeping up with weeding is an integral part of gardening. I prefer to return anything grown on my land to my land except for what we eat. And that includes weeds. They fed off my efforts. They can jolly well contribute something back.

Tropical -- sounds like you can eat most of your weeds :)
Early in my gardening career, I learned from a woman who is now the director of the veggie gardens at a Zen monastery. She let weeds flourish in her garden, and it was so beautiful. I mean, really happy, huge dandelions, dock, etc. I admired her and her garden.

So I do a mix of ripping out weeds, and letting them grow as companions to my plants. Only quack grass is treated with no mercy (though I do thank it for what it is trying to do, which is hold the ground together like it is supposed to do in the rocky north of England where it came from.) Also, I am aesthetically incapable of pulling up clover. Which gets me in trouble when the purple clover takes over some of the beds. (then I have to rototill my no till garden :( )

Anyway, it's a style, I suppose. And this year, the weeds are really taking over because I have to travel so much (in fact, I'm in SF area right now :) ) So far, weeds and veggies are all happy. Will see how the harvest turns out this year, and I'll let you know.

' ... the rocky north of England where it came from ...' Couch grass, quack grass, twitch - it has a hundred names and is endemic to the entire British Isles, indeed the whole of Europe. Extremely common almost every where.

p.s. The North of England is only rocky in some places and couch prefers richer cultivated soils. The rocky bits are covered in short moorland grasses, heather and other tough plants, not couch.

p.p.s - I put it on my compost heap. It's nothing like as bad as bindweed for persistence.

Here is a link that might be useful: Couch grass

Elisa, I have some purple clover also. It is different from the oxalis. It is some times cute with yellow flowers, but I rip it out from time to time, so it doesn't take over. It can make a nice ground cover. I don't think you need to till it. I use a lot of compost. It come out easily, but if are away for like a month or so, I don't know what could happen. I remove the weeds daily when they are small, so I don't stress out my hands. It's good to inspect the garden for problem daily anyway. I just can't believe how many weeds can sprout each day.

Hi everyone! Just wanted to say that it is going well so far it seems. I'm still new at this, but when I turned it, some tiny bit of steam came out from the center. Is this bad?

Silent -- Steam is excellent! It means it's heating up.

Flora -- thanks for updating my info on quack/couch grass. I had heard what I posted from an old time gardener from England -- must have been lore rather than fact :)

tropical -- I let the purple clover stay for over a year (it's the one with the large balls of purple flowers.) Then it is hopeless to rip it out. I just hope it is doing its nitrogen fixing thing. The bees LOVE it, so it's hard to want to get rid of it until it prevents large areas of the garden from being planted.
Have you tried one of those blade things for weeding? Great for not stressing out your hands -- small, hand held, with a sharp metal loop that you drag through the soil and it does a fine job of weeding.

My purple clover has tiny yellow flowers. But, I have some with bigger leaves that are purple that I bought at nursery with white flowers. Do you mean a green clover with purple flowers? I mean a clover with purple leaves, but the flowers are not purple, they are white on the big one and yellow on the small one.

This is one weed, I don't mind very much, but most of the others are just awful. I use a sharp blade also, but since there are so many, it hurts my hands. So, if you compost a huge amount of weeds with seeds, you never know. You just have to wait and see what happens.

Here is a link that might be useful: tiny purple clover leaves Creeping woodsorrel

Using the name 'clover' for Oxalis species can be a cause of confusion. The common misnomer is based on the trefoil leaf shape but Oxalis and true clovers are not related. True clovers are members of the Papilionaceae and may be grown for their nitrogen fixing properties. They make great additions to a compost heap. But I would not add Oxalis to compost because of the tenacious bulbils which will spread it all over the garden.