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drail14me

Brown thumb needs help!!!

drail14me
15 years ago

I've just completed a new home and have begun the landscaping process. I've found three different trees that I want to plant in my yard but I'm hearing mixed words on if they will survive or not.

I live in North Mississippi. My local Co-op lists us as being a Zone 7b. I would consider the locations where I want to plant the trees as being part shade to full shade. The soil is a clay soil but I've mixed in some loamy soil. Not sure on the ph.

The trees I'm wanting to plant are:

Blue Atlas Cedar (Cedrus Atlantica)

Silver Mist Cedar (Cedrus Deodara)

Blue Spruce

Below are two photos of the area where I want to plant:

This shot was taken from the North end of the house looking Southeast. The front porch faces due West. I want to plant the Blue Atlas along that West facing brick wall in the far right of the photo. The one with the two lower and one upper window.

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This photo was taken from the North end looking Southwest. I'm wanting to plant the Blue Spruce where you can see that pile of top soil through the porch. The Silver Mist I want to plant in the area to the far right of the photo.

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As you can see, it's heavy shade from mostly large oaks. Off to the right of the second photo is a group of Easter Red Cedar that are doing quite well in the full shade.

I don't want these new trees to really grow, just survive. Do I have a chance? What could I do to keep them alive?

Comments (6)

  • mikeandbarb
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I googled the tree and this is what I found.
    Blue Atlas Cedar (Cedrus Atlantica)

    In maturity the Atlas Cedar widens, so it is best sited with 10-20 feet of clear area around it. In its native range it becomes quite large to 120 feet high and 40 feet wide, but in cultivation it may grow to about half this size.

    http://www.etsu.edu/arboretum/totwblueatlas.

    Info on Blue Spruce

    http://arborday.org/trees/treeGuide/TreeDetail.cfm?ID=39

    I didn't find much on the Silver Mist Cedar (Cedrus Deodara) zone 7b and up
    This cultivar does best on moist, well-drained acidic soils. While its foliage is resistant to burning by the sunÂs rays, most nurseries suggest planting it in an area where it is protected from the afternoon sun.

  • Donna
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi. I live in Meridian. I have a blue atlas cedar and it is doing very nicely in full sun. You need to be aware that it will get HUGE at maturity. I did not know that when I planted it in a flower bed. :) It does not grow extremely fast, so I am hoping I can keep it pruned to the size it wants. If not, I know how to cut trees down, and I will.

    An excellent substitute would be Emerald Arborvitae (Thuja, "Smargd"), although it is not blue. This is a relatively new arborvitae that stays nice and skinny in its column, tops out at about 12 to 15 feet tall (3 feet wide), and thrives in full sun all the way to deep shade. I have many of them around my house and they are dead easy to grow as long as you plant them high in the hole.

    You don't have a prayer for success with blue spruce, more's the pity. Our summers are just too hot and humid. Save the time, trouble and money.

    I have no experience with the Silver mist, but most cedars do pretty well here.

    May I make some suggestions?

    Japanese Maple purpureum would love your shady site, although it will do fine in full sun too. It is, in my opinion, the most beautiful plant God put on this planet. Although it is not evergreen, its branches and trunks make such fantastic tracery against a winter sky that it is just as beautiful bare as it is in full leaf. Add to that its spectacular spring and fall color, and you see why it's the gold standard of small trees.

    Purpureum is the species variety so it's tolerant of our climate, is not as expensive as some of the fancier hybrids, grows faster, and is an ideal size for nearly any home: not too big, even at maturity. Bloodgood is another good variety for our area with deep red leaves.

    The north side of your house would be a perfect, perfect wall for camellias. These evergreen, winter blooming shrubs are utterly beautiful, and we in the south are the envy of most of the country because we can grow them. If you decide on these, buy the largest plants you can find because they are slow growing. They will eventually, however, make lovely, graceful small trees with proper pruning. You really should check them out.

    If you want a conifer, look for Chaemycyparis pisifera "filifera Aurea". It is a pyramidal shaped large shrub or small tree that is a shimmering golden green with feathery branches. I have three of them, all in afternoon shade and visitors never fail to stop dead in their tracks when they see them. As far north as you are, I bet they could take more sun than mine do.

    On that same thought, there is a blue foliaged Chaemycyparis called Boulevard. I have not grown it, only seen pictures, but it would be a good bet as a substitute for either the Atlas cedar or the spruce.

    Finally, I would recommend that you mostly use plants around your beautiful country home that blend with its style and sense of place. Too many conifers can look like your home dropped out of a tornado that passed over another area. :) Notice, I said too many. Some are wonderful, especially in the winter time.

  • drail14me
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the comments and suggestions Donna. I fell in love with the Blue Atlas Cedar when I saw it in a nursery in Clarksville, TN. just North of Nashville. They also had the spruce and silver mist growing on their lot. I wanted to pack them all up and take them home but was afraid at $225 a pop. I thought I might be taking them to certain death in that full shade.

    The Blue Atlas I would like to stay small. So, I was hoping that they would survive in that shady spot and grow VERY slowly. Otherwise, I'd keep them pruned back.

    As for the Spruce, I wanted it mainly for christmas time. I'd like a living tree that my daughter and I could decorate. I really like that Boulevard that you suggested. I may just give that a try or even just a Eastern Red Cedar that I keep trimmed.

    The Silver mist is a great looking tree. I first thought it was a leland cypress when I first saw it. I want to give it a try as it would look great in a rock garden I've started.

    I agree on the Camellias. That is what I plan on the North side. Also looking as some dwarf camellias along with some juniper as ground cover in the front beds.

    Any more comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Dennis

  • Donna
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am going to recommend two books to you. One, The Southern Living Garden Book, is a must-have. The information in it is invaluable and it has a pretty exhuastive list of plants that grow in the south, telling which plants grow in which parts of the south. If it doesn't say it will grow in your area, save yourself some money and disappointment. It won't. It has great lists in the front: Evergreens, Shade Lovers, etc. They will be a great help to you as you plant your beds. I highly recommend to you that you DO plan your beds before you head out to nurseries. My house is only five years old and alot of those early purchases that were impulsive have been very difficult to place and have been dug up and moved several times. Plan first. Plant second. Your back will thank you.

    Also, check out Pamela Harper's Thirty Years in a Four Season Garden (or anything else by her, for that matter). She will introduce you to tons of plants that you've probably never heard of or grown, but which are wonderful for our area.

    Good luck and have FUN!

  • rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    To plant a Blue Atlas Cedar in a space where it will need to remain 'small' is not a good idea. It will also be most unhappy at being pruned on a regular basis. Also, Blue Spruce is not an ideal selection for your area, though you may see some here and there.

    Have you seen a 'Blue Ice' Arizona Cypress?

    One good way to develop a green thumb is to understand the limitations of your site (soil, drainage, light, size, etc.) and to select those plants that are best suited to the site. Purchasing plants that have little chance of thriving is heartbreaking in the long run.

  • Donna
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    rhizo is absolutely right. I would NEVER have selected the Blue Atlas had I known how large it would ultimately become. But, it's there and it's thriving so far. Since I paid for it in $ and sweat, I am going to enjoy it for as long as I can, and then, will probably end up removing it.
    If I gave the implication that I thought this was a good idea, it was unintended. Don't do it! :)