Diane - you're gonna want to put potting mix - not potting soil, in the swc. I'm not sure that mel's mix would wick properly. There are some things you can do to minimize the water loss, by shielding the actual container from the sun's heating effect. I'll probably use white plastic mulch, versus the black that is commonly used - in hopes of keeping the soil cooler.

EG

I only use Mels mix. It works great in SWCs. And the reason I watered daily in the summer is I was feeding 2 5ft tomato plants. That is a testament to how much water they need.

Good luck.

sinfonian,
Did you use 6" like Mel recommends in other raised beds? Or do you think it has different requirements being in a SWC?

I know he still recommends 6", even when the bed is not on top of dirt (i.e. elevated boxes)... so wondering if same holds true for SWC.

I'm just trying to see if I can get away from having to water the garden every day in the summer heat! My garden will be in scattered areas around the yard & not very convenient (or cost effective) to run irrigation, so I'll be carrying the hose or a watering can to my various spots. Don't want to bite off more than I can chew. :-)

Speaking of that, another question is do you find the SWC has to be watered more often than a SFG on the ground? Wondering if the container being elevated would mean it dries out faster? Or no real difference there?

Thanks!

I used Mel's mix, also in my swc. I looked up how to make my own potting mix and the mix one site recommended was 1/3 compost; 1/3 peat and 1/3 vermiculite, hmm...
I think the swc has to be watered less overall than the ground sfg because it waters from the bottom and would be less likely to loose water in the top to evaporation. My understanding is that tomatoes get very thirsty as they get older. My full grown stupice needed watering daily while it fruited.

Mel's mix? Hmm...wonder how cost effective it is to use, instead of potting mix? The reason I ask, is because I will have to fill 6 swc's in a couple of months with something. I would just as soon use mel's mix, but don't have any on hand right now. All I would need is the peat and vermiculite though, because I got me lots of compost!

EG

Ok, let's see if I catch it all:

6 inches vs SWC: my beds are 15" not 6, regardless, I fill my SWC to the top. Tomatoes need it for sure, but I fill all SWCs to the top.

Watering: water only when the plants empty the reservoir. Early in the growth of tomatoes I watered monthly. However, when you have 2 5' tall tomato plants in an 18 gallon SWC, it's closer to daily. Does that make sense?

SWC need more than in ground: definitely SWCs require less water than in ground. It is one reason to use them. SWCs are the most water efficient method out there. There is month evaporation, leaching etc with a SWC, it is a closed loop system. So the plants use all the water until there is none left, unlike ground planting.

Hope that helps.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sinfonian's garden adventure

How do you know when the reservoir is empty? So I'll know when to start increasing the watering schedule. I know when you fill it up, it has a little hole the water runs out to let you know it's full... but do you have to wait until the plant starts wilting to know it needs water?

Another question (sorry so many!), but I see the reservoir portion is only a few inches tall. If you could find a higher basket or make one out of something, could you make a larger reservoir? Since Mel uses 6", I'm thinking I could get by with shorter planting/mix area than what you see in the plans. Anyone ever try that?

I appreciate all your replies! This sounds like a really cool way to add to my garden!

First off, I would top it off often so I got a gradual feel of how fast it they were drinking, but if you check out Raybo's sit, he's got a float gauge rigged up that would help. But yes, my first time using one I noticed curling on occasion, especially as the plant was doubling in size and I hadn't worked out that logic of a greater water need. Remember ther is no waste in the process so if the reservior is empty, the plants drank it.

I went with a 6 inch thin basket to give as big a reservoir as possible. Depending on what you are growing in it, you could get away with less dirt I guess. However, since you burry the stem each time you pot up tomatoes, you need a good foot of dirt. At least that's how I do it. Does that make sense?

I used straight pro-mix in my SWCs last year. It is similar to Mel's mix in that it contains peat and perlite plus the local HD was clearancing it out. I added some organic ferts and epsom salts to it and planted. I did not have to water every single day, but I did have to pick romas every day! When I pulled the plants and dumped the soil they had roots everywhere! Towards the end of the growing season I started getting some blossom end rot that I assumed was because the calcium had been depleted from the ferts.

6" of soil would not be enough in this method in my mind.

I will probably do the SWC method again this year since I have the equipment already made for it. I was planning on adding float valves connected to a rain barrel so that when the water level got low I wouldn't have to do the watering, it would be automated for me. I don't have the valves..or the rain barrel yet for that matter, but a similar system could be worked out with a larger water resevoir tub that fed multiple SWCs.

There are multiple posts on it in the container gardening forum if your interested.

I think Raybo is the gardenweb resident expert on the swc's. If you search for rnewste or raybo you'll find some great instructions on making the flag to indicate that the water is low. It looks to me like it's just a flag (like a little construction flag) attached to a cork. I just top mine off, lol.

All you need for an automated watering system is the pvc float valve from us plastics which I've linked to, some tubing, and a large water resevoir. The valves are only 8 bucks each, and you'll never again have to worry about when they are low on water. If you wanted to go away for a week you would be fine as long as your water resevoir is large enough for the number of containers you are supplying. I am ordering 3 of the valves right now for my 3 SWC's, so I should have pictures and a how-to of sorts before spring gets here.

Here is a link that might be useful: US Plastics Float Valve

Sounds interesting. I can't quite imagine how that works, but hopefully your pics and explanation will help.

I don't have rain barrels next to my SWCs, but some day I may figure something out. Thanks.

Sinfonian-Sounds interesting. I can't quite imagine how that works, but hopefully your pics and explanation will help.

I don't have rain barrels next to my SWCs, but some day I may figure something out. Thanks.


It's actually quite easy really. The float valve is inserted into the water chamber of the the SWC at a height where the water won't flow out your overflow hole. It's connected by a hose to a water resevoir which is raised above the level of float valve by a foot or two. When the water goes below a certain level, the float opens it's valve and the head pressure from the elevation change lets water in back to the predetermined level at which time the float will shut off it's valve. That's all there is to it.

If you didn't have a rain barrel, you could just use a trash can or another rubbermaid container...which is what I may end up doing if my neighbor doesn't come through with a food grade barrel.

I will be going to Lowes this weekend to pick up supplies to make at least 2 new larger SWCs. Hopefully the float valves don't take to long to get here since they are coming from in-state.

I will take pictures all along the process and put them on my blog.

Uuum...would one of you engineering types post your method for the watering system in your blog and link it? I'm making five more this weekend and I'd love to steer clear of pvc if I can help it, but I can't quite get my brain around an alternative. I know you guys have mentioned it, but for the life of me, I can't picture it. I hope this isn't hijacking. I think it's sort of related.

Posted by carolynp z7 (My Page) on Thu, Jan 22, 09 at 14:53

Uuum...would one of you engineering types post your method for the watering system in your blog and link it? I'm making five more this weekend and I'd love to steer clear of pvc if I can help it, but I can't quite get my brain around an alternative. I know you guys have mentioned it, but for the life of me, I can't picture it. I hope this isn't hijacking. I think it's sort of related.

I will do just that as soon as my valves are shipped to me. The valves themselves are PVC though, so if your worried about leaching it won't help you much. I've been drinking water out of PVC plumbing for over 20 years now, and I'd consider myself pretty normal. No worse for wear than what you would breathe in a normal day.

carolyn - I could tell you dozens of ways to construct an automatic system, but plan on filling mine the old fashioned way. I actually enjoy spending time tending to everything in the garden, because it's my personal serenity device. If you need my input, i'll be glad to give it, but it sounds like you have plenty of help already. :-)

EG

I've been drinking water out of PVC plumbing for over 20 years now, and I'd consider myself pretty normal.

So many comments, so little time Justin, lol. Actually, leaching doesn't worry me, but if you use pvc, it's a serious pain to get the hose into it after the tomato grows in around it. I've heard people suggest the tubing, but (sounds stupid, I know) I have no idea how to attach the hose to the tubing. Do you just get large enough tubing to attach the hose to? Is there an adaptor from hose to tubing? I do most of mine by hand, also eg, but I'm really talking about the thing that fills the reservoir. I hope this doesn't come out as unintelligible as I'm reading it.

Just looked at Raybo's site & he has great instructions! I noticed he uses a 31-gal container & other sites (ft2garden) used 18-gal containers. Obviously, bigger sounds better... but anyone think the 18-gal ones do just as well? Just thinking of cost, etc.

Also, all I've heard of is tomatoes in the SWC... any reason for that? Are they more of a water hog than other veggies? Anyone planting other veggies in them?

Posted by dianega 7 - ATL (My Page) on Thu, Jan 22, 09 at 17:42

Just looked at Raybo's site & he has great instructions! I noticed he uses a 31-gal container & other sites (ft2garden) used 18-gal containers. Obviously, bigger sounds better... but anyone think the 18-gal ones do just as well? Just thinking of cost, etc.
Also, all I've heard of is tomatoes in the SWC... any reason for that? Are they more of a water hog than other veggies? Anyone planting other veggies in them?

Actually Raybo has all kinds of veggies in his SWCs. Corn, snow peas just to name a few.
{{gwi:39366}}
I had tomatoes in my SWCs last year which were 18 gallon ones. I had two betterboys in one, two romas in another, and two sweet millions in a third. They didn't do too bad, but I had to prune them religiously. I'm upgrading to the 31 gallon this year for the tomatoes and plan on devoting the 18 gallon SWCs to other veggies...just haven't decided what yet!

So many comments, so little time Justin, lol. Actually, leaching doesn't worry me, but if you use pvc, it's a serious pain to get the hose into it after the tomato grows in around it. I've heard people suggest the tubing, but (sounds stupid, I know) I have no idea how to attach the hose to the tubing. Do you just get large enough tubing to attach the hose to? Is there an adaptor from hose to tubing? I do most of mine by hand, also eg, but I'm really talking about the thing that fills the reservoir. I hope this doesn't come out as unintelligible as I'm reading it.

Not sure what to make of your post, but I didn't even have a fill tube last year. I just stuck my hose in the overflow hole. It was much easier to do that then use the PVC.

I like being in the garden too, but watering isn't part of the fun of it for me. Watching the plants grown and coming up with cooking for all the produce..that's fun to me!

I too used 18 gallon bins and will continue to do so. I may make one 30 gallon one for 3 cantaloupe like I had last year (mine bit the dust trying to empty it, just too heavy and the plastic broke). I'm not sure how you empty a 30 gallon one. I'm sticking with 18's mostly because 2 feet is all I have between beds and they fit nicely. Do whatever works for you, but don't let anyone say you can't grow two tomato plants in 18 gallon SWCs.

Posted by sinfonian U:8b A:2 S:5 (SeaWA) (My Page) on Fri, Jan 23, 09 at 0:41

I too used 18 gallon bins and will continue to do so. I may make one 30 gallon one for 3 cantaloupe like I had last year (mine bit the dust trying to empty it, just too heavy and the plastic broke). I'm not sure how you empty a 30 gallon one. I'm sticking with 18's mostly because 2 feet is all I have between beds and they fit nicely. Do whatever works for you, but don't let anyone say you can't grow two tomato plants in 18 gallon SWCs.

Oh yeah,they grew just fine in the 18 gallon! Romas were super prolific in the 18s. I'm planning on upgrading for the increased water resevoir size mainly. I doubt I'll see a difference in fruit set or size. I may just plant extra romas in the 18s so I can make my own spaghetti sauce and can them. Or maybe try to get some san marizano to sun dry. I have lots of Ideas, only a little money and no time...such is the life!

For those of you that have swc's and have difficulties filling them through the 1-1/2" pvc pipe, I wanted to let you know that Raybo and I are working together on a water makeup system that will be much better.

Carolyn - please disregard the float valve I told you about.

EG

Hehe, leave it to EG to offer to help Raybo build a better mousetrap. I can't wait to see the results. I just hope it will work with existing SWCs since I won't have the cash to rebuild from scratch.

Thanks for the heads up EG!

Sinfonian - You'll be able to adapt it to any swc, no problem. I'm still working on some of the details, and will contact Raybo again next week, to get his thoughts on the design.

EG

I'm actually warming to the idea of tossing the hose into the overflow. It never occurred to me, lol. Figures...

i planted 1 red bell peppers- 2 green bell peppers- 1 chocolate and 2 banana peppers in one 18 gal rubbermaid last summer . the banana's did well the green soso the red and chocolate did nothing but grow leaves. i am going to seperate the banana's into 1 swc and the peppers into another. i used vermiculite and potting mix. will try mel's in one this year i'm adding another 4x10' 12" high bed this year after the snow clears ;)

Posted by imresident7 5 WI (My Page) on Sat, Jan 24, 09 at 13:02

i planted 1 red bell peppers- 2 green bell peppers- 1 chocolate and 2 banana peppers in one 18 gal rubbermaid last summer . the banana's did well the green soso the red and chocolate did nothing but grow leaves. i am going to seperate the banana's into 1 swc and the peppers into another. i used vermiculite and potting mix. will try mel's in one this year i'm adding another 4x10' 12" high bed this year after the snow clears ;)

I cannot believe you got 6 pepper plants to grow in one 18 gallon SWC. I would do no more than 2 in one SWC. I'm going to devote 1 of the 18 gallon SWCs I have to Jalapenos this year. With that producing I'll have everything except for onion and garlic this year in the garden for salsa fresca.

My float valves were delivered late Friday. I'm going to go pick them up tonight and probably pick up 2 of the 31 gallon rubbermaid containers from Lowes. Last time I was there they didn't have any of their drip irrigation stuff out yet, so hopefully this time they will have what I need to work on my automatic watering system.

The Earthbox people recommend 6 pepper plants per container, but I'm not sure if your SWCs are smaller in area than the Earthboxes.

Here is a link that might be useful: Earthbox Grow Charts