The reason I use them is I want to plant tomatoes but refuse to give up 4+ SF per plant necessary to grow them I my beds. Instead I grew two indeterminates in an SWC placed between my beds on the gravel pathway. You can't beat that. Oh, and I didn't waste water. Bonus.

This year I will use 4 SWCs and would use more if I could find the room for them.

As for the cost, I got the bins for $7 each. The rest will cost about $15, so $30 per SWC. Not cheap, but doable. Especially as an investment. The one I built last year will be used for many years to come, it's life extended by storing it out of the elements during the winter.

I am a huge proponent of SWCs, I won't grow tomatoes without them. Oh, and I swear that you can plant 2 tomatoes I an 18 gallon SWC. My 30 gallon will be used for 3 cantaloupe plants. 30 gallons is overkill for tomatoes. My experienced opinion.

Good luck!

I used the cutout from the lid as the shelf, so I only needed one container per SWC. I used these half tomato cages that I got at walmart for $7 each, two per container made a perfect cage for two plants.

I'm going to get the bigger containers(31 gallon) this year, but I won't necessarily follow raybo's design to the T. All in all I should have six SWCs full of tomatoes. I've decided that in addition to freezing some for winter use, I'm going to try sun drying tomatoes. I'll have one container with a regular slicing tomato and 1 grape tomato, and the other 5 with romas. The three larger containers will also have float valves connected to a trashcan rainbarrel to fill them automatically so that they never run low on water. The others I will have to hand water.

EG

I'd bet more like lack of heat. Seems most of the folks growing in those things don't have really long growing season. Those containers must get pretty hot on a 95 degree day in full sun. I wouldn't want to try them here. People can do as they want but compost and mulch will keep the roots damp and that's all tomatoes need.

And don't even get me started on the environmental issues of creating all that plastic that's going to end up in the landfill somewhere because you can't recycle it.

It's a poor craftsman that blames his tools.

I followed raybo's instructions exactly, and have close to $300 invested in my 6. They better work good....
EG

Crikey! They work as advertised, but I'd be more worried about them lasting any length of time. Raybo claims 7 years, but I don't think he'll ever see it.

Maybe someone needs to get in contact with rubbermaid or sterlite and see if they will make one with UV inhibitors in the plastic specifically for earthtainers.

I personally will be happy if my old SWCs make it through this year. I didn't keep track of tomato counts after a while, but I know when I stopped, I was well under 25 cents per tomato. This year, the tomatos will be basically free. I'll have loads of salsa and sun dried tomatoes to share with family and friends.

Otherwise, Jleiwig is right on with his per tomato cost. Dirt cheap!

It's a poor craftsman that blames his tools.

Your entitled to your opinion, but your wrong on every count you've stated as far as I'm concerned.

Growing in containers is a perfect micro environment where I can control almost every aspect of the tomato growing life cycle.

If I could devote the space to a greenhouse then combined with containers, I would be able to control every aspect of tomato growing.

Heat is not a problem with white plastic mulches and/or shade cloths the same as in the ground growing.

I control the amount of water the tomatoes receive. I control the nutrients the tomatoes receive. I control the ph of the growing medium. I control weeds (there aren't any). I control everything humanly possible but mother nature(again with a greenhouse I could control her too!).

Why would I not want an advantage where I can start weeks earlier than if I planted them in the ground, get more production from a smaller area, and use less water to boot?

Please be informed of what you speak of before you go off thinking that we have problems growing tomatoes in soil. Tomatoes grow just fine in my soil, I just can beat mother nature at her own game so I do.

You have proved your ignorance on the subject by stating what you have, I beg you to become informed before forming opinons. Read up on container growing and hydroponics and you might find that even you could have greater results with SWCs or other container growing methods.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but ignorance really rubs me the wrong way.

EG

Tomatoes in containers, IME and education, are way, way, (way) better. I used to get cheap used wine barrels for this purpose and they were perfect, as I could plant ornamentals in them as well, often ornamental peppers. Nematodes are a definite reason, but controlling water-fert is another, and being able to walk around them to look for caterpillars/egg cases is another, and ease of harvest is another. And, and, and.

Anyway, for whatever the reason, do containers and take the space found in the garden and plant something you like.

I use 5-gallon buckets for all my cherry toms and smaller determinates - they are easy to move for early frosts and cheap and IME tend to limit the legginess at the end of the season. Carolyn's $11/per is a great cost, and in my mind they take more bagged/made soil so are a little more time consuming at the end of the season.

BTW Judy - if anyone asks about Monsanto, just mention Andura Smetacek and what "she" was lying about.

Dan

I used mel's mix in the container. Is this what everyone does? Or are there modifications for swc's?

I've never made/used/thought about Mel's mix, but at first glance the % of peat moss for a container seems far too high, waterlogging the compost.

I suppose if this discussion continues I could go drag out a textbook and see if there could be a different reason...

Dan

In SWCs you generally want more peat than anything else. Around 70% peat is the going rate I believe.

It could have also been your fertilization program. How did you fertilize? A strip down the middle when first planted? Or did you just hope the compost would take care of the tomatoes?

In my research I've found that you cannot depend on compost alone to provide the nutes you need in such a compressed growing area.

I added organic fert strip at the beginning of the season and supplemented by adding fox farms liquid ferts to the water every month or so when I remembered.

As for not wanting to use SWCs for environmental reasons, I get that. Plastics are bad for the environment. I like to think I reuse and recycle, but I don't judge people's opinions. Of course I suppose you could build SWCs out of other materials as well. Maybe whiskey barrells? Or if you want, simply grow them in the ground. Whatever works for you is great.

Good luck!

When I pulled out the plants at the end of the season, they both had huge root balls, and could have kept producing if I had let them.

Try a peat-lite mix next year without the compost. Without any sort of aeration you will be waterlogged no doubt.

In SWCs you generally want more peat than anything else. Around 70% peat is the going rate I believe.

This is why I like this forum. I was taught to limit overwhelming fractions of anything in containers, no more than 50% of any one thing. Maybe I'll swallow and add some peat to my containers this year...

In theory, Sarah, there's nothing wrong with Mel's mix for toms per se, but it seems as if waterlogging is an issue in your containers if there's compaction; at very high humidities plants do not transpire and there could be another reason why soil was so wet (along with poor drainage).

My other diagnosis would be either too hot to set blooms (over 95º and the % is near zero), or perhaps liquid fert as blooms are setting. But certainly waterlogged soil would make plants unhappy, thus no bloom set.

Dan

Dan - they won't produce blooms over 95 degree temps? I'm confused....This will be my first year with swc's.

EG

[tomatoes] won't produce blooms over 95 degree temps?

All plants have maximum and minimum temps at which no more metabolism takes place. The Philippines right now has an institute that is is scrambling to develop a rice variety that will flower in the future warmer world. I had 22 days last summer where I had no tom fruit set, as a heat wave made it too hot on that side of the yard. Some vars are more heat tolerant than others (e.g. the second hyperlink).

BTW, my 5-gal buckets are white to avoid heat absorption. If I were to make SWCs out of Rubbermaid containers, I'd paint the outside one white to avoid heat absorption (I'm in Denver area, very sunny here), or drape shade cloth after sufficient heat got to the roots and establishment occurred.

Dan

ribbit - I didn't notice that going on with my toms last summer...I guess I was too busy killing squashbugs. BTW, the show last night rocked! Heh.

EG

jleiwig - 70%? That's interesting. I've never heard of that before. Where did you read this at? I'd like to research it, before I buy several bags of potting mix.

In Mel's Mix, it is a mix that is equal in the three areas that you need for planting (aeration, nutrition, and moisture retention).

Remember in the SWC we aren't looking for water retention as one of the main themes, we're looking for wicking of water. We have all the water we could need in the resevoir container, we just have to have an efficient medium to transport the water. That's why I don't believe in composts in SWCs, they are more moisture retention which is kind of opposite of what we are looking for.

Ideally it is recommended at 70% peat, 20% vermiculite, and 10% perlite. In this instance the peat is the wick, the perlite is the aerator, and the vermiculite is the water retention.

The Earthbox forum has a few interesting discussions on what sort of mix to use, but they generally recommend a higher percentage of peat for the wicking qualities.

If you have any other questions feel free to ask. I will share all I know from researching this method for the past 2 years. My interest actually grew (pun intended) out of an interest for hydroponics.

The only problem with hydroponics is that they don't work very well unless they are in a controlled environment(greenhouse). All of my outdoor hydroponics were a giant failure due to uncontrollable elements of mother nature. SWCs are just a different version of hydroponics, but we work with mother nature instead of against her.

I'm really hoping to have a bumper crop of tomatoes this year. A nice person on the tomato forum is sending me some Opalka seeds to try, and I want to build a solar dryer for sun dried tomatoes.

I still need to build my three new SWCs. I'll have a total of six, and I may add three more on top of that, but they will probably be 18 gallon containers. Really that's all you need if you watch your fertilization and pruning.

If you look on the tomato forum for pictures from Timmy1, he's growing in 5 gallon buckets commercially, filled with pro-mix and using drip fertigation. In my 18 gallon SWCs each tomato plant will have roughly 5 gallons of soil to work with, and it will be wicking fertigation instead of drip.

Folks, if you're not doing fertigation like jleiwig, then you'll need more compost than what is used in the descriptions above. Personally, I also use Osmocote (containers only) in the mix.

Dan

EG

As I said you only want peat and perlite/vermiculite. My mix last year was straight Pro-Mix which is a variation of the Rutgers peat-lite mix of peat and perlite in the 85%/15% range of peat/perlite.

Again, as I stated above, you want wicking, not moisture retention. If you had lots of moisture retention, you defeat the purpose of the wicking chambers and the whole idea behind a SWC. Lots of compost will lead to the issues posted above of water logged and compacted growing medium.

Stick with a peat-lite mixture and you will have no problems what so ever.

And just to prove that you can grown in SWCs in the heat of Texas, I present a picture from Wyndelleast who is in Lubbock, Texas.

As I said before, white plastic on the tops, and shade covers and you can grow tomatoes in the heat of Texas, or Florida, or even Arizona.

For northern growers, styrofoam under the container for insulation, black plastic on the top, and plastic wrapped around your cage will get your tomatoes out weeks earlier than anyone in ground, and you should be eating tomatoes in June while everyone else is waiting for their 4th of July tomato.

So many ways to skin a cat...

Dan (sticking to his system)

I only get my hackles raised when someone isn't willing to listen to any other way than their way, even when you can show proof in their face. That's why I went off so bad on poor Shebear.

Again, I used straight Mel's mix in my SWCs and I had the best tomatoes in the area during the worst weather we've had in years. I see no reason to fix something that isn't broke.

However, I would love clarification on the soil-less tomato growing (for grins I am considering compost to be soil). I appreciate your thoughts!

However, I would love clarification on the soil-less tomato growing (for grins I am considering compost to be soil). I appreciate your thoughts!

Where you came up with the 100% water retention figure I have no clue. A peat-lite mix of peat/pearlite has very low water retention. This is exactly what we are looking for in a SWC. Your mix of Peat/vermiculite/compost however is nearing the top of the list for water retention. Vermiculite is high in water retention values.

The compost in your SWC actually probably provided little in the way of nutrition for the plants. Compost by the nature of the beast needs other microbes and soil "critters" if you will to break it down into nutrition that the plants can use. Container soil by nature does not contain these microbes in sufficient quantity to make the insoluble nutrients available that plants actually use. In the ground, compost cannot be beat, but they are just taking up space in a container. Fertilizers(eg..Miracle Gro) on the other hand contain immediately available insoluble nutrients that the plants can immediately use. They do not depend on the "soil food web" to break them down so the plants can use them through uptake. The fertilizer strip in your box provided all the nutrition your plant needs. How it does this is because between the bottom watering, and the top cover, you do not have nutrient leaching that is present in soils when you have heavy rains.

Any growing medium needs to retain enough water, nutrients and oxygen to make it until the next time we attend to the plants. In a SWC, we have taken out the water & nutrient aspect of this equation via the water resevoir and the fertilizer strip, so all we have left is the oxygenation. We have oxygenation through an air gap between the soil and the water, air holes in the growing shelf, low water retention and lack of compaction since we are not top watering. Remember that anywhere water exists in the mix, there cannot be air. If all the spots in the mix were filled with vermiculite or compost or some other water holding product, there would be no available oxygen for the roots.

Your last statement shows why the containers are such a boone. By controlling the growing medium, we can to a certain extent negate the effects of the weather on the roots of the plant.

Again, I used straight Mel's mix in my SWCs and I had the best tomatoes in the area ...
However, I would love clarification on the soil-less tomato growing (for grins I am considering compost to be soil). I appreciate your thoughts!

Me too.

I will say that I was at Targét today and picked up 4 Sterilite 18 gals with lids for $4.99 per to have more toms and another project this spring (and to drive the MIL crazy).

But I'm not putting a suboptimal nutrition mix in them. Which is why I perked up at the 70% peat thing and the fertigation, as that's how that is going to work (and a good idea). The UC mixes that we were forced to make tons of as an undergrad all add nutrients because peat is commonly sterilized.

Dan

As for air, course vermiculite provides plenty according to Mel's book.

Sorry, but I still don't get it.

Thanks

Sinfonian - In my opinion, the mix doesn't have to contain it's own nutrients, because a strip of slow-release fertilizer is added to the top layer, as well as dolomitic lime.

I think this has turned into one of the most informative threads in this forum in months. Thanks!

EG

I think you've just about talked me out of trying SWCs.

Granny

EG

Thanks

Does your SQFT bed have isolation on all sides from the elements? Your SQFT bed has an open top, and more than likely an open bottom as well. Microbes, bacteria, worms, and other soil critters can come through the air or from the soil below. Whereas a SWC has an impenetrable bottom and a plastic top cover with only a tiny hole for the plant to come through. As I said before SWCs don't give enough access to the critters for them to do all the work needed. The nutrition comes from the fertilizer strip, and the reason it can be so small is because it is not affected by environmental concerns. It's not washed away by the rain, or spread out to the soil surrounding it, it's concentrated right in that perfect little microworld you've created inside the box. Water comes to the top through wicking, hits the fertilzer strip and distributes it down to the roots.

As for Vermiculite, it is actually very hydrophilic (water
loving)instead of hydrophobic (water hating). So naturally water is drawn to it. Remember anywhere there is water, there is not air.

From all my reading over the winter I'd go so far to say that neither perlite or vermiculite are very good long term solutions. I'd look for a high-fired calcined clay product like truface or axis.

Posted by engineeredgarden 7, nw Alabama (My Page) on Thu, Feb 12, 09 at 21:32

jleiwig - I went over to the earthbox forum, and did lots of reading on the subject. Makes sense to me. That's why so many people are jumping onto the pro-mix bandwagon, cause it's comprised of exactly what you stated earlier. I checked on pro-mix, and it was expensive! I'll be making my own mix for mine. I've already got some vermiculite ordered. :-)
Sinfonian - In my opinion, the mix doesn't have to contain it's own nutrients, because a strip of slow-release fertilizer is added to the top layer, as well as dolomitic lime.

I think this has turned into one of the most informative threads in this forum in months. Thanks!

EG

Pro-mix is very expensive, but the components themselves aren't as expensive in bulk. Pro-mix BX is the standard bearer that everyone uses in professional nursery production.

I was worried that some would be put off by this thread being that it is in the SQFT gardening message board instead of the container gardening board, but when thinking about it, they are both very similar in that they are using unusual methods to beat mother nature at her own game.

Posted by anniesgranny 6b (My Page) on Thu, Feb 12, 09 at 21:54

Would somebody care to translate all of the above so the *average* person can understand it? In other words, WTH do we put in the SWCs that we can find at our local nursery or Lowe's/Home Depot?
I think you've just about talked me out of trying SWCs.

Granny

Here's the ClifNotes version- You could put anything labeled as potting mix in your SWCs. Raybo of "earthtainer" fame uses Miracle Grow Potting mix in his and has fantastic results. I used Pro-mix for containers in mine last year that I got from Home Depot on clearance for $7 a bag. Anything that has a high concentration of peat, and not a lot of other stuff will work out fantastically. This is probably the most simple growing method you will ever use. Fill the box with potting mix, add some seedlings, add the fertilizer strip, cover the top with either black or white plastic, and make sure it's got water. Nothing else needs to be done unless you want to fuss with it.

The discussions here are just for deeper understanding of the reasons why they work so well. I know I've been fairly technical, but if you really want your head to spin go over to the container forum and look at posts by Tapla about soils, water retention, and other things.

You'll learn words that you have to look up in the dictionary! Did I ever think I would be using hydrophobic or hydrophillic in a sentence? No..not in this lifetime, but hours spent researching this have given me a much better understanding than I could have ever imagined.

I even read a tissue study analysis from the the University of Florida that spells out exactly what percentages of nutrients tomatoes need during each stage of their life! I do this because I want to grow the best possible tomatoes that I can, and hopefully one day could start my own production greenhouse.

I love the technical side of everything associated with vegetable production (like you couldn't tell!) Researching and building the stuff is way more fun than any other part for me, because if I've done my homework, I'll know the outcome, so lots of ripe juicy delicious tomatoes is kind of the expected norm. Any other outcome just leads to more research and more changes for next time!

If I had a bunch of peat moss laying around, I'd try it your way, but since I've got over a dozen 40 pound bags of Mel's Mix instead, that's what's going into my SWCs.

I'm going to chalk this up to "there's 100 different ways to grow a tomato" hehe.

Sorry to say I'm more on the Granny side of the debate. I hope never to use either of those two words in a sentance, hehe.

Sorry to say I'm more on the Granny side of the debate. I hope never to use either of those two words in a sentance, hehe.

No problem...different strokes for different folks. Gardening is just one big experimental competition anyway. It's almost like making a witch's brew trying to figure out a way to beat mother nature because she's never consistant year to year, let alone day to day.

The Purdue horticultural department did a study on 100 different heirloom varieties, and Opalka produced 65 fruits per plant and roma produced 99 fruits per plant. This was in ground with no compost or fertilization added to the field. If I can make that number or beat it(really hope to beat it!) with containers I will be a happy man. 3

I have this crazy plan in my head to do a lot of sun dried tomatoes this year by making up a simple solar dryer out of scrap wood. That is of course if I can stop making salsa to eat fresh every night! Damn the mexicans for introducing me to fresh salsa!

I guess I can manage the SWC mix ;-)

Granny

you can go to HD or Lowes and get a decent mix for your SWC - IMHO (willing to defer here) a soilless mix is better. Don't be put off by my geeky questions to jleiwig, as we are just talking technical stuff (dang ag school won't leave me alone!).

Bottom line is that you will need to add your favorite fertilizer to the mix, make sure it gets aerated and not too waterlogged, so that means you will likely purchase, say, SuperSoil and add peat. I recommend against purchasing the most expensive thing there. Just buy the cheapest one, add peat and fert and enjoy.

Dan

EG

jleiwig - I agree, the growing mediums that are used in sfg is similar to container gardening, because both primarily use soiless mixes. Believe me....I've read all of tapla's threads, and they are amazing. Only a master bonsai grower taught in Japan (which Al is) could have that much knowledge about growing mediums. I can't wait to get this summer growing season going!
EG

I couldn't agree more! Just today I went out and could actually feel the sun! That got me so stoked for spring, although we're supposed to get snow tonight! I keep looking at my pathetic garden plot and can't wait to make it beautiful.

I just came across this forum that describes a problem with too much moisture in some SWCs as being the result of a too-large wicking container.

I'm going to make two SWC's out of 18-gal Sterilites I picked up at Targét for 4.99/per, and in my mind I had pictured two smaller wicking chambers to alleviate too much moisture (along with foregoing plastic at the top and using landscape fabric & bark instead) to ensure better moisture control.

So I'm thinking that a solution for the moisture problem above might be to restrict the size of the wicking chamber (presuming the commenter above doesn't want to spend too much time on growing medium).

Dan

I had two 4" diameter wicking chambers in my 18 gallon SWCs and during the heat of the summer in full growth, not only did they drain the containers, but the top inch of soil was dry. This wasn't a big deal because by that time the roots had grown down to the bottom of the growth area.

This year I'm seriously considering forgoing the fertilizer strip, and using hydroponic nutrients in the resevoirs. I am also thinking about putting bubblers in each one to make sure that the water remains highly oxygenated.

I may do a test and do one the old way and one the new way, so I'll have side by side comparision.

This is fascinating and I'm interested in the outcome of the fertigation approach. Me, I'm making soil structure and ensuring there is gas exchange. Maybe I'll figger out a way to get some time to post to Flickr or Photobucket to compare to j, altho I'll just have cherries and small determinates.

Nonetheless. I've done containers for over a decade and I'm always looking for better ways to do it, as IME containers are better for some toms wherever you are, and esp if you have a small yard. j, plz let us know how it all turns out.

Dan

EG

EG:

Would the frequency of adding water not be more of the plants ability to intake water?

I read that Raybo reduced his wick size to reduce the moisture retention in the media, because as Al preaches, oxygen aeration to the root system is not possible in water logged soils - and for this reason, AL never uses compost in his containers because it will compact ... I think. At least that's what I got out of them big words, LOL!

I have already bought the large wicking baskets...and considered restricting their surface area with something.

and

I think it all comes down to how frequently a person wants to add water to it

FWIW, the only thing I purchased is the Sterilites, everything else is (fill in your preferred 'freecycle'/dumpster diving term here), and I'm using two heavy plastic containers of ~2.25" dimension for the wicks, as I'm, planting cherry toms, which tend to have less leaf area for transpiration potential. We'll find out how well this works - I may have to purchase something that works better...

That is: if you have two big plants with large leaves, they are going to transpire much more water than my two little cherries, so your wick needs to work well enough to transfer water to the growing medium.

So it is not a matter of 'wanting' to add water to it, it is how frequently you need to add water to it.

Dan

I am making 4 new ones this year with the small 4x4 basket.

I also own an Earthbox. The two wicking chambers in them are quite small. Only a couple inched square each.

I'm wondering what role humidity plays a role in all this. Here in Ohio, when it gets hot, it is 85-100% humidity pretty much constantly.

Huge.

Transpiration occurs because there is a difference in outside air humidity and plant water content (100%). The drier it is, the more transpiration (because of greater potential difference between air and plant). Many desert plants have a special metabolism that closes their stomata during the day and opens them at night to respire so they don't lose too much water to the dry desert air.

Anyway, here in dry, often windy Colorado I have to watch my containers, shade them, and ensure that the pots always have adequate moisture. BER is a constant threat.

Dan

Dan

Really? Seems counterintuitive judging by my results. I had two 4" diameter wicking chambers in 18 gallons and never had a wetness problem. Raybo and others in dry climates report a wetness problem with less wicking area.

jleiwig - As you know, it's hotter than 400 hell down here in the summer, and very humid. I've got 2 tainers for one type of tomato, and will have to do some experimenting with it.

bdobs - Really? I've never thought about that...Of course, I've never had a setup like this, either.

Crap....I'm confused.

EG

it is basic botany - the SPAC - soil-plant-air continuum, and the potential difference causing the transpiration via stomatal openings. Your results don't negate physics and Van der Waals forces.

As to why your results are what what they are, well, that's part of the appeal of gardening and why there are so many fun experiments here to read about and why I ask you to post your results to see what I can learn.

I haven't looked at these Raybo comments, but here in Denver area, my toms in the raised bed next to the house shut down last year for 22 days in the heat - little addition to leaf area, no bloom set, no nothin'. The heat shut down their metabolism, and if they had been in SWCs, I don't see how the soil wouldn't be too moist, as capillary action will pull moisture to all pore spaces until saturation.

Dan

Dan - Is this your opinion, if a person was using the original wicking basket, which makes the soil too wet? If so, it sounds like I really need to modify my baskets. My summer heat is brutal, and I want the best results from these swc's.

This is a great thread! Very informative....

EG

The reason why soil saturates in these containers in the issue (way) above, IMHO, is capillarity.

The wicks transfer moisture to the entire soil medium via capillarity. The toms in turn should transpire water faster than the wicks can supply moisture to constantly saturate, (the medium in toto doesn't have all its pore spaces sitting at 100% saturation 100% of the time). In my mind (no experience here), if the wicks are too small, the toms will put feeder roots down into the water. But the toms can't lift their roots out of saturated soil, so saturation is a greater danger than wilting (again, no direct experience, just much lab work in school). In excessive heat (over, say, 92-95º depending upon variety), many of the stomata shut down and there is no transpiration, allowing greater chance at soil saturation.

The issue, in my mind, presuming the saturation premise is true, is the plastic bags on top of the soil cause less chance for vapor to escape (in addition to via the plant stomata). I am making my SWCs with landscape fabric in place of plastic, and a bit of wood mulch on top of fabric for some gas exchange and a tiny bit of vapor escape.

I'm learning a lot from this thread as well - evidenced by my going out and purchasing 18 gals...

Dan

EG

Dan

I'll defer to you on the plant pathology Dan. I'll just keep experimenting to get the perfect comprimise with my containers and I'll report back here.

BTW, I was in HD yesterday and they had black 18 gallon tubs for 3.99. Not sure if it was just a local thing or not. Would work great for those in northern climates where they didn't see much heating from the sun.

BTW, I was in HD yesterday and they had black 18 gallon tubs for 3.99. Not sure if it was just a local thing or not.

I'll check it out. One can always paint them or drape landscape fabric. I'm interested to hear how your season goes.

Dan

I don't think you would have any problems constructing one, and there may be someone close to you who could possibly help.

Al

Ideal growing conditions inside the container is what Dan and I were debating. I'm trying to eliminate as many variables in the tomato growing process by using the SWCs.

I know your big on the composted pine bark fines, but I haven't found anything locally that I would put in my containers. Most of it looks like junk with some dirt and some big pieces of bark in their "fines"

I'm also debating about going with turface or axis or the napa stuff that is supposed to be the same as axis in place of vermiculite/perlite.

So basically my mix would be peat and one of the above ammendments. I wouldn't be worried about compaction since I'm not top watering, but will be bottom watering with a nutrient solution.

Thoughts? Please opine master of the container! :)

What do you think?

Al

Al

Ok...I can ride the train so far. I would like to propose two additional criterion to you. In honor of Raybo's earthtainer project for third world countries, I'd like to see if we could come up with different mixes from readily available products(I'm not sure what they would have available to fill his earthtainers in Guatamala?) and second I'd like to look into benefits of the fertilizer strip versus using a water soluble solution in the resevoir. Something like Peters 20-20-20 isn't very expensive, and at Cornell in the CEA ponds, that's what they use.

Before I get too committed though, I just want to say that I'm perfectly willing to offer whatever help I can, but I don't want to get bogged down in lengthy disagreements over minute points. I think you understand how time consuming it can quickly become. I'm not saying I want anyone to refrain from taking an alternate position, I just don't want anyone to come gunning for me. ;o)

Al

I would like to propose two additional criterion to you. In honor of Raybo's earthtainer project for third world countries, I'd like to see if we could come up with different mixes from readily available products(I'm not sure what they would have available to fill his earthtainers in Guatamala?) and second I'd like to look into benefits of the fertilizer strip versus using a water soluble solution in the resevoir. Something like Peters 20-20-20 isn't very expensive

Great idea, as I'm currently garden testing an inexpensive solar soil heater for coldframes - a package of inexpensive solutions could be a great benefit...

First, EG, I can't seem to find the ref you speak of in the bquote - will you plz provide a link?

Second, the mix is an education tool for good soil husbandry, so perhaps we can expand to the ground as well.

Third, IMO the water-soluble should not be a petrochemical (cost).

Dan

EG

Dan

jleiwig - I think that's an excellent idea. Find readily available components to form an adequate mix...

I spent a little time today modifying the wicking baskets in all 6 of my earthtainers, thanks to a little information from tapla and Dan. I sure am glad the 'tainers weren't put into operation yet. It should work like a charm...

EG

Dan

EG

I was planning to simply make Mel's mix and use that for the SWCs. It sounds like maybe I should forego the compost and find some large bags of perlite. I recently bought several 18lb bags of vermiculite and was going to use that, but I don't want my SWC to be a failure in Kentucky (similar to high humidity in Ohio, but gets very hot and later dry with patchy rain in the early summer - which always seems to miss my area *grumble*). I was planning to buy a cubic yard (or two) of compost from a bulk materials place I have used the last couple years (only $10 for a cubic YARD of compost made from Kentucky thoroughbred horse poo). Hmm... Maybe my strategy should be 70% peat (scooped off garden), 20% vermiculite and the 10% perlite? I figured it would cost less for me to make enough mix myself than buying Miracle Grow mix (plus it is more fun to make it yourself)

HD only has the 9"X9" plant baskets. I hope I won't have a tough time finding the 4"x4" ones mentioned here. I think all the hydroponics stores in my area are only open 9-5pm type hours which is difficult for me due to the next possible weekday for me to have off is in late March.

I'll keep tabs on this thread. I have learned alot already and am excited to get started, but being cautious since I have never constructed a SWC and have already spent more money than I probably should have. ;)

I may make one or two of these this spring, so I need to know, what do you do with them in winter? Do you let them go completely dry? Do you move them or leave them? Do you have problems with freezing/busting? Do you reuse soil every year?

I personally removed the soil from them and put in in my sq ft bed so that I would be able to stack them together in my shed for storage. Others just leave them out to the elements.

Since I'm experimenting this year, I figured I would start with fresh potting mix.

http://www.petsupplydirect.net/round-pond-basket-small-5-x-5-x-4-h.html

My last post was an Idea to use a small aquarium pump and air stone to force air under the aeration bench, for better O2 gas exchange to the root system. As an aside I also mentioned it may help mosquitoes from breeding by the agitation of the water.

Next thing I see are all these suggestions about mosquitoes THAT was not the point of the post, I want to create the IDEAL growing conditions, as much as possible outside of a greenhouse. (Reason for using earthtainers to start with).

When I first told my neighbors I was going to grow 8 ft tomato plants they did not believe me until I showed them photos of Raybo’s boxes.

Here is a link to a plant at epcot center that has produced 32,000 fruits that is 32k not a typo.

http://www.wdwnews.com/ViewImage.aspx?ImageID=101932

To be continued on next post I do not know if GW has a limit on post size.

alan

As I stated the air pump is just an experiment and the more people that try it the better results we will all get.

I do not think that 32k tomatoes that this plant that came from China is typical or else they would be exporting them. (Like everything else you seem to buy today).

If this increased the viably of the plant even 10 to 15% to me it would be worth it as the cost will be low.

Photo of "air bench"

Photo of Trailer with modification to removable cages.

Happy gardening

Alan

I see others here on thread or on other threads seem to think that using 2 Rubbermaid containers is a waste. (Hope none of you have thrown them out). But with the removable cage design are even more valuable.

1. Easily built cold frame (which has been posted before by others).
2. After all frost remove plastic and replace with screen (use when high winds or storms forecast) and if you forget to remove in the morning will not bake the plants.
3. BUGS provide a physical barrier to nocturnal insects laying eggs on your plants
No Chemicals (most bug activity I see is at night).

For these reasons I will not reattach my cages until it is a necessity to do so. But by then hopefully the plants will be strong enough to ward of any attacks.

Just another attempt to provide an Ideal environment for growth.

In the photo of the trailer you can see one of the cold frames. Just a 2 inch band of scrap with 4 sheet metal screws holding it through the clear plastic.

alan