I'll share what have done so far. Please feel free to correct any bad habits.

Started seeds on Dec 28th in the greenhouse (cold frame) on heated mat in 2 inch pots in tray and covered. Soil temp about 80. Under fluorescent lights. 24/7. Note one seed per pot.

By Jan 3rd all seeds had sprouted. By Jan 18th they were ready to pot up to 4 inch pots. Planted as far up the stem as the pot would let me. Left them on heat pad but uncovered. Still under lights.

On Feb 13th potted up one more time to larger pot. The bush tomatoes were potted up to the second set of true leafs and the cherry as far up the stem again. Removed from heat pad still under lights for about 14 hours.
I will leave them in these pots if possible until they are ready to be planted out in the bed. Plant out date is mid March if all goes well.

EG hope this is what you were looking for.

Liisa

Here is a link that might be useful: Liisa's Garden Journey

EG, I'm doing the best I can with soup containers, a plastic box, aluminum foil and a single 2' shop light! But give me three weeks and I'll have something better set up.

I planted four tomato seeds in seed starter mix and got 100% germination...now I just have to keep them alive. I've moved them into larger containers with a 50/50 mix of the seed starter and potting soil. We are getting warm weather and sunshine again, so the seedlings went outside for a couple of hours today, then back into their new foil-lined light box.

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Granny's tomatoes & peppers

Liisa - that was really detailed! Thanks for taking the time to show those pics. Some in here may have not seen them already. Question...do you have any kind of fan blowing across your plants?

Granny - I've seen pictures of your seedlings on your blog, and they look really good! I can't wait to see them when you get back home.

I'll share my trials and errors, because I've learned alot from the recent propagation.
First of all, I have the small computer fans in the propagation chamber, as some of you know. Initially, they were introduced for controlling the temperature inside the box, but they also have another advantage....Creating a slight breeze across the plants, which helps make them stocky.
I also subject mine to really low temps occasionally, because this promotes stocky growth, as well. I have a Big Beef plant at work in a swp, and you wouldn't believe the stockiness of the stem. I'll try to get a pic of it tomorrow.

EG

EG,

No fan. I run my hand over the plants any time I'm in the greenhouse.

Liisa

I can't add much to this thread since I'm not at tomato starting stage yet but we have a couple little battery operated fans that we use in the travel trailer refrigerator to circulate the air. I may have to borrow them when I start seedlings...

crudolla, nothing yet, but now that ya got that ball really rolling, and i have to stop and smell the roses!! **smiling** i guess i best get a move one winter sowing some AND starting some on the front porch, i totally want to have some to have very early, my other ones, had died and didn't work out as planned. funny how life is like that!! LOL we have white one's too so we'll see!! LOL no fans since this will be all outside!! :') ~Medo

My plan for a little less than a month from now:

On or around the second weekend in March, Plant seedlings 1 to a 4" pot bottom 1/2 of pot will have fox farms tomato tone fert mixed into soil, top 1/2 will just be sterile seed starting mix.

Put tray on the new heat mat I just bought yesterday. The cheapo soil heating cables I bought just aren't cutting it!

Germinate the seedlings in a 1020 flat with clear dome keeping the soil temps around 80 degrees.

Once the first spot of green appears, remove dome.

Once first set of true leaves appear, remove from heat.

Subject to breeze and colder temps of unheated room regularly to make them super stocky.

Sub-irrigate with a dilute(1/10) fertilizer solution until stocky enough to go out into the SWCs.

On or around the second week in April, Plant 8 to a SWC, IRT 100 plastic over SWC to heat SWC soil, Pink foam insulation under SWC to insulate against colder ground temps. Wrap clear plastic around tomato cages to make mini greenhouse. Half strength nutrients in resevoir

Around end of April or 1st week in May, transplant 2 to a SWC for final resting place.

Pray for a normal spring and Hope for first tomato Mid-June or earlier.

I think that's about it. I was tempted to try some of the techniques I read about on the Tomato growing forum, but they are just a cult it seems.

"Dance three times backwards, swaying your hips in a counterclockwise direction while chanting oooga ooga ooga and sprinkling the urine from a manatee over the ground you intend to plant your tomatoes in.

Once this is complete dig a hole that is 10 1/2 times the diameter of the largest stem on your tomato measured in fathoms. Into the hole place a pile of old toe nail clippings, a fish head with 1 eye, 6 alka seltzer tabs, and once planted fart twice in the direction of your tomato plants. This is the only sure way to grow prize winning tomatoes and assure a bumper crop harvest."

I don't think I missed anything in their voodoo recipe, but if I did feel free to correct it! ;)

jleiwig - I agree on the cult thing....It's just not that sophisticated! Anyway, that voodoo ritual was pretty funny..

Here's a couple of photos of my plants at work. These were started in the propagation chamber.

This first one is a big beef, that was started toward the end of December.

This second one is a sweet 100, that was started the first week of December. It has 4 or 5 clusters of blooms on it already, and is growing like crazy!

EG

EG, those plants are just obscene. Nobody should have plants that big in February, for heaven's sake! Sheesh...my piddly little 1-1/2 inch tall plants are looking awfully puny now :-(

Oh well, I have more weight in my veggie scale than you do right at this moment...so ha-ha, Poopyhead!

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

I've started 50 varieties of tomatoes. Have seedlings running out of my ears!

Peggy

Liisa - rubbing your hand across the plants works well too, for stocky growth. I think the air movement helps with potential diseases as well.

jleiwig - I don't pot up at all. From the 14-16oz. cups,they go straight into the garden. I never allow the temperature inside the chamber get over 70-75 degrees, because I don't want the seedlings to grow more than 6" while inside it. Instead, I want short, stocky growth - so I can keep them longer. Ideally, i'd like to keep the chamber temperature between 40 and 50 degrees at all times, but it fluctuates quite a bit - because of the crazy weather we're having.

The chamber is performing far better than the shelf system, and i'll have to build another one of those things.

Medo - last year, I wasted alot of seed trying to figure out how to propagate these things without a light setup. If i'd known about winter sowing, I would have definitely given it a try. Good luck with everything.

EG

Wow, little old me and some 9 oz cups doesn't lend much to this party. However, I first started 6 tomato seeds in Mel's Mix and set them on top of the fridge to germinate. As soon as they sprout I put them in an unheated room under lights for 12 hours a day.

I will think on a fan. I may have something I can rig up.

Pics are on my blog, as with a more detailed description of what I did. However, it's more or less what everyone did above me, except John who I thank tremendously for the alka seltzer idea! Who knew? Hehe

Here is a link that might be useful: Sinfonian's garden adventure

Granny - I'm sure your itty bitty seedlings will grow to be quite big. I'll be eating tomatoes April-May. Even though these plants are at my work, can I add them to my produce scale? Afterall, you have 2 separate gardens....Thanks for the poopy head! It always makes me feel special!

Peg - 50 varieties? That's insane! Oh god....my wife would have a coronary, if I told her "BTW, i'm growing 50 different kinds of tomatoes". I don't even think my garden would hold that many plants.

EG

Alright, I'll jump in!
Most of my posts have been questions about this same subject in the Tomato growing forum as this is my first year from seed.
So here is what I have done so far

I went to Walmart(hate the place) and HD.

For $6 at Walmart I picked up a 72 cell Jiffy Peet Pellet Greenhouse tray. Came with the bottom tray, 72 Peet Pellets, ad the clear plastic cover.

For $28 at Home Deopt I picked up the same thing, but it came with a heating mat too. I knew I would need the heating mat for my peppers as I am growing both Tomato and various pepper seedlings in my unheated garage.

I sowed 9 pellets each of 8 different varieties to fill the 72 pellets. I went with a mix of Heirloom and Hybrid, with a heavy lean towards the hybrids this year as I have had low production from Heirlooms in the past, and I tried to get a variety of early, mid and late maturing
Red Brandywine
Cherokee Purple
Big Beef
Sungold
Burpee Supersteak
Early Girl
Celebrity
Better boy

I took the pellets and wetted/expanded them with warm water.
I then took the eraser end of a pencil and made a slight shallow indentaion for the seeds.
Dropped two seeds per pellet, then took the other end of the pencil and lightly covered the seeds with the peet.
Covered the tray with the provided cover, sat it on a bench in my kitchen and waited.
This was done on February 10th.

On February the 13th I noticed they looked like this

Under the lights they went.

A little about my setup.
Two cheapo shoplights from HD. I already had one, and bought a new one for less than $9. Each ballast has two 4' tubes. I went with a cool white, and a daylight bulb in each.

The lights are hanging in a "gorilla rack", with the chains provided, in my garage.
My garage is unheated, so I bought some styrofoam inulation from HD and cut it to fit the bottom and sides of the section of rack I am using. I also took another piece, cut it to fit and cut out holes so it sits a few inches above the lights to try and keep in some of the heat generated by the lights.
I then draped some poly sheeting down the front and back of the shelves.

My garage gets down in the 40's at night, but this setup seems to keep the tempurature in the 50's and 60's inside my growing area.

I plan on getting a small clip type fan to generate a false breeze, but I am having trouble finding one at this time of year.

Here are the seedlings on Feb 18th. 8 days from sowing, and 5 days from the picture above.

I plan on potting them in some 3" or 4" pots in the next week or so.
At that point I may give them a diluted feeding of some water soluable fert, but I will need to ask more questions from the experts before I do that :)
At that point I will probably take the 4 strongest of each and unfortunately discard the rest as I simply dont have the room for all in pots, and I only plan on planting 10 total plants in their final growing spots. I will be giving the extra mature seedlings to friends and family.

Well, thats all I got so far. We will see how all goes from here!

Good luck all
Brian

nice pics, Brian! I used peat pellets last year, also - and they worked pretty dang good. Those are some great temps for your seedlings, they should do well.

EG

Thanks EG
I didnt even notice some were getting their first baby true leaves, or the fuzzy stems until I looked at that picture I took on Macro mode

bdobs,

Be sure to remove the plastic netting from around the roots of the tomatoes before planting up...two things - tomatoes benefit from having their roots jostled (just a little) and secondly, if you don't remove the plastic they can become root bound. The roots have a hard time breaking through the plastic (despite the claims of the manufacturer) and will just go back into middle.

When removing the plastic be as careful as possible not to damage the main tap root. The smaller roots can be severed and the plant should be fine, but you want a nice strong taproot for water absorbtion (drought resistance) as possible. Replant as deep as possible and try to keep the taproot as vertical as possible.

i knew i shoulda started mine then, LOL then i'd have some nice sized tomato plants and possibly some tomatoes!! LOL yours look awesome!! you did a GREAT job!! **as usual** LOL ~Medo

Medo - Thankfully, I have these two plants in an old closet next to my office. A 400 watt metal halide fixture is suspended above them, and they've grown this much without any fertilizer. I'm planning on starting some more around September, so I can have tomatoes next winter. Thank you.

This is a great thread, and lots of ideas are being shared, thanks to all that have put in their input.

I currently have 38 heirloom tomato seedlings in the chamber, and approximately another 30 pepper and common tomatoes on the shelf system. All of the ones in the chamber are up, but the ones on the shelf system are a little behind.

As usual, if anyone wants to see my propagation systems or progress, you can see them here (link below)

EG

Here is a link that might be useful: EG's place

EG - I have 72 varieties of tomatoes I traded for but unless I change my mind, I don't think I'm planting anymore this year? Am hoping hubby gets more raised beds built SOON LOL!

I also have 40+ varieties of peppers...have not ckd to see how many I have started. Also 9 varieties of eggplants, plus lots of White Alpine Strawberries (put some in a pot with a Chile Petin yesterday), close to 50 asparagus from 2 varieties (cutest lil things!) plus marigolds and nasturtiums to companion plant with the tomatoes.

I bet you have more room than I do LOL! I'm allowing 36" or so between raised beds so my son can get down the pathways in his wheelchair and so I can get down them with the cart he gave me...sit and ride as I plant/weed--great gadget...all my tools are stored in the thing!

Peggy

Peggy - that's remarkable! Oh, the next time my wife gives me a difficult time about my gardening obsession, i'll just say "oh...it could be worse, believe me!" Ha!
More room? no way.....I currently have only 201 sqft of usable space right now, with the boxes/swc's I have built so far.

EG

dang Peggy!! you ARE the BOMB!! who knew that you planted so much?? LOL i saw that you were trading so many of them, but ya know, i didnt think twice!! **onery wink** LOL so, what ya thinking of making?? lots of salsa??

i have to make lots of it this year, cuz ya know, talla wants her own salsa, LOL no more store bought salsa, and she wants her own spaghetti sauce, no more store bought. LOL she's getting fussy!! i hate to see her when she's a teen!! **grinn**

i do love the idea's i see here, it gives me something to look at for my plants besides just the winter sowing ones. LOL ~Medo

Wait you guys, I am not ready yet. :o( :o(

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Johns Journal

I hope to be ready soon, I've gotta harvest some worm castings to put in my potting mix - sifted compost, vermiculite, worm castings.

Granny said...

Oh well, I have more weight in my veggie scale than you do right at this moment...so ha-ha, Poopyhead!

Granny

Not for long, granny...Ha! (taken today)

EG

EG, I have two baby cucumbers on my plant. I doubt they'll get big enough to pick before we leave though (woo-hoo, I'm heading home two weeks from Sunday!)

Back to the subject, I have a question. As many years (about a hundred, I think) that I've been gardening, I have never been a seedling starter. I always bought my tomato and pepper plants and everything else was direct seeded into the garden. What I need to know is...with this warm AZ sunshine, I have been turning the light on my tomato and pepper plants from 8-11 in the mornings, then setting them out for six hours of sunshine, then back under the lights from 5-10 pm each day. Is this overkill with the lights? I don't have a great light setup here, it's taking some juggling to get the tiny peppers close enough and the tomatoes are getting too close. Shouldn't the six hours of sunlight be sufficient, at least for the tomatoes? The peppers don't have their true leaves yet, but the tomatoes have two sets.

TIA,
Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

Granny, you're going home in about 16 days? Woo Hoo! I bet you're excited.

I'll be glad to give you my opinion, but I'm certainly no expert....yet.

If it were me, I would be cautious about taking those little seedlings outside. One of my friends had some seedlings about the size of yours, and decided to set them out in the sunshine a couple of weeks ago....every one of them died the next day. Granny, I don't know how long it will take you to get home, but those seedlings are gonna need some light on the way. Maybe it will be sunny, and you can set them on the dash on the way home? I grew a nice seedling (about 3" tall) and gave it to one of my friends a week or two ago, and he placed the cup in his office for the weekend. On the fourth day away from my grow light, it shriveled up and died.

Here's my approach with lighting, and I have great success with it:
As soon as the tiny thing emerges from the soil (literally 1/4" tall), I put it under light. On both lighting setups (indoor and outdoor), I don't take the light away from them until their seedling leaves get that nice green color to them. I don't turn the lights off for at least 72 hours, and have left the lights on in the chamber for 5 days straight - during some of the recent cold spells. Once the seedlings look pretty good, they are exposed to 18 hours of light/day. I check the soil moisture daily, and water them every 2 or 3 days - depending on moisture level.

I hope this helps some. Let me know if you have any more questions.

EG

I don't take the light away from them until their seedling leaves get that nice green color to them. I don't turn the lights off for at least 72 hours, and have left the lights on in the chamber for 5 days straight - during some of the recent cold spells.

Huh. Do they slow down after you put the timer on and they remember that they have a light cycle? Too late for me to try this, as my stuff is up...

Dan

The babies have gone outside for three days now and are looking really perky and green, growing well. I make sure they are well watered before they go out, and they are set in a sunny area, protected from the wind. I keep a thermometer in the soil of one of the plants and it is sitting right at 80F. At night they are near a window so the temperature is around 65, but it's going to get increasingly warmer.

EG, there is no way I can keep them in the light on the way home. They will be in an enclosed cooler for about 32 hours, although I will be taking them into the hotel room with me, so I suppose I could also take the light along and give them light all night.

Gosh, this will be so much easier when I get home and get a decent light system set up! I really should have waited, but I only have 9 plants at stake here, if they don't survive, I'll still have time to do it over and do it right. I just hate to fail at anything ;-)

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

Dan - I haven't noticed any slow-down. Here's why I do this:
From past experiences, I noticed that as soon as the seedling emerges from the soil, it has one thing it wants....light. During this critical stage of growth, mine have grown 2-3 inches in less than 12 hours, creating an unbelievable skinny stem. Once this happens, your only option is to pot the seedling deeper. That's why I throw the light to it for a considerable amount of time, which makes the plant immediately put all of it's energy into establishing true leaves.. Because the chamber is exposed to the outdoor temperature, I have to really keep my eye on the weather. If the daily high temps are below 40 degrees, I seal the ventilation holes in the chamber with foil tape, turn off the fans, and keep the lights on until the situation improves. I try to run the lights between 5pm and 11am, because the warmth of the lights burning raises the internal temperature of the chamber 20-22 degrees. On the other hand, if the temp at night gets as low as 30, but raises to 60 in the daytime - I leave all of the ventilation on standby, and it will circulate air as needed, by the thermostat.

EG

All veggie plants that I know of require zero light to sprout. Once sprouted though they need light and direct sunlight 24/7 will not hurt then. Look at the veggies they grow in Alaskas short growing season, but with 20+ HRS of sun light per day. If your plants are getting leggy, try dropping the ambient temperature while maintaining the soil temperature (heat mats).

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Johns Journal

Granny - i'd give them light all night, while in a hotel. That should make them happy.

EG

I agree with EG. That should work well Granny. Don't dispair. Your little guys will do fine on the trip. Hope you had a great time in AZ and you're not coming home on our account, hehe

Gotcha EG. We were taught to rest our seedlings for several hours at night - such is the value of this forum.

John, I did a project in the Matanuska valley, and have seen the trash can lid-sized cauliflower with my own eyes. Holy cow!

Dan

Dan,
I lived in the Mat-Su Valley before we moved to CO. I made my husband go to the State Fair with me just to see the veggies... Also where I discovered birch syrup caramels...yum!

I was offered two jobs when up there in Palmer, and if I didn't get SAD so often in winter I'd have stayed; I think it is true that you should visit AK when older, as everything else doesn't measure up wrt scenery. Colo winters so far zero SAD problems, out today counting how many daffies and crocus popping up.

:o)

Dan

I think SAD was getting to the men in my family while we were there. Colorado winters are beautiful!!