Well @ two boxes, all your toms are going to go in the back, with much crowding. So I'm not seeing where the vines will go, and you'll need one more box which will get you one cuke and much crowding on the squash in the back of that, leaving you at least one too many vining crops. Your bush cuke will take up 1/2 of the rest of one box and put the okra in with the cuke and call that box a day. All the rest is easy to time and doesn't look to be an issue. Are you starting the beans and peas soon, I hope?

At any rate, it is all fun and everything is a bonus and fun learning experience and don't be a slave to a book after this season. Home Depot has ridiculous prices on EMT conduit and I have lots of trellises and hoops out of it. Bend the conduit and don't pay the money for elbows but straight couplers instead. Have fun!

Dan

Are you sure the straightneck yellow squash is a vining type ? If so, many people will want to know your source !! Check the following threads for info on squash not vining and how to stake them ... http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/cornucop/msg0213360511726.html and http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/sqfoot/msg0310241914233.html

It doesn't matter where the 3rd box is placed, as long as it does not shadow the other two. I agree you will need that box, mostly because you are very short on trellis space for what you want to grow. In fact, you could build the 3rd box as 3x8 to have more trellis space.

Tallest to shortest North to South is a good plan. The new 3x8 box could have your 8 tomatoes on the trellis, one per square foot. These will have the suckers pruned as they grow in order to have 1 main stem only. One of your 4x4 boxes can have the cukes on the trellis. The remaining can have the blackeye peas on the trellis. The remaining veggies will go in front of the trellises ... cayenne peppers, yellow squash on stakes, picklebush cuke, okra, dill, radish, and bush beans.

Thank you Dan & Angela for your advice. I really appreciate the insight. I will be planting those beans and peas this week! I figured that 3rd box would be necessary due to the trellis requirements. I like the idea of doing a 3X8 for more trellis length. I believe I am mistaken about the yellow squash; the label uses the term "vine" but I don't think its meant to be taken literally (like I did!) So, I'll definitely read up on staking the yellow squash.

Dan, do you have any pics of your trellises?

Definitely go with e 3' x 8' box for more trellising space!

Keep the trellises on the NORTH side of each box, and there should be no real shadow issue.

Trellisi: (mom & daughter haven't painted yet), A. . All supported by 3' rebar or SCH40 PVC with shims.

Dan

Does everyone think it would be okay to run the 3X8 tomato trellis from the middle portion of the 3ft section ends (if I still build the bed running long-ways, east to west). Since I have 8 tomatoes, I thought I might alternate every other plant on each side of the netting...making a zig zag of sorts. The tomatoes would still be spaced along the distance of 8 feet squares.

>

Thanks for the pics Dan. They look great!

I'm cannot picture what you mean by the tomato trellis from the middle portion of the 3ft ends in a zig zag.

Hi Angela,

I was mistaken earlier about placing the trellis between 3 feet--I meant to say 2 feet.

My initial thought was that the tomatoes might be too crowded 1 per sf, so I thought about staggering them in the northern 2 rows instead of 1 and then place the trellis between the two rows. But I don't know if this would really help. I've read you can put an indeterminate tomato easily in 1 sf and then I've also read that you should allow more space??? I definitely don't want to waste my squares; I could be planting something else there possibly!

I've attached a sketch to help explain what I'm thinking...

{{gwi:1265403}}

IME 1 ft spacing is too close for toms. Too much work to keep in control and to keep air flow going. Not to mention picking.

Dan

Last year, I had mine on a trellis with no problem. Here is what I had ... in the 1st 2 squares, I had 3 cantaloupe plants (only because I was too soft-hearted to cull one of them), in squares 3 & 4 I had a Juliet cherry tomato in each, in squares 5 & 6 I had a Better Boy tomato in each, in squares 7 & 8 I had a German Johnson tomato in each for a total of 6 tomato plants in 6 squares. In squares 9 & 10 I had a straightneck yellow squash in each (lesson learned ... they do not vine - this year I will be staking & will not waste trellis space on them), in square 11 was 2 cucumbers.

I used nylon trellis netting and weaved the tomato in & out as they grew. I kept the suckers pruned so there was 1 main vine only on each plant (except 1 plant did have 2 main vines, which grew before I figured out what I was supposed to be doing). I found it really wasn't much work to keep them in control. Just a couple minutes every few days to check on them.

Out of all of the slicer tomato plants, we only got maybe 10 tomatoes. We had more cherry tomatoes than we could come close to eating. Now, that's not to say that the Better Boys & German Johnsons were not producing. They were loaded up with tomatoes. It just seems that the squirrels were faster at harvesting than we were !! They greatly preferred the BB's & GJ's and did not eat the cherry tomatoes. Once in a while we would find a bite mark on a cherry, LOL.

If you are going to trellis them, I would put the trellis right over the middle of the back row and plant the tomatoes right under the trellis in the middle of each square. Use the front 2 rows to plant other things !! In fact, my bed is only 32" wide, so from front to back I have 12x12" square, 12x12" square, 8x12" square. My trellis sits over the 8" deep squares. I have a couple feet behind the trellis to be able to tend them from the back side in addition to the front side.

All this being said, last year was my first year gardening. Dan has much more experience than me !! : )

Last year, end of July

My attempt to protect the tomatoes ...

It was unsuccessful. I later learned they have sharp teeth that can easily chew thru tulle. Ha.

Who me ??? I don't eat tomatoes ... bird seed only !!

(don't fall for that innocent look, my squirrels are all liars)

Having endured far too many design courses at least allows me to appreciate angela's very nice picture (not the cursed upside-down pirate). I finally broke down and went the cattle panel route myself.

My toms are on a trellis at 18" spacing. I might be able to get a little closer but it is too much work for my preference. I don't think you'll kill anything at 12" spacing, but give yourself enough time to prune and pick and look for critters and prune out blight and and and.

Dan

Your garden pic looks very nice Angela. I've decided to put the tomatoes on the back row with the trellis across the center of that row; as has been suggested, I might be asking for trouble but I'll never know until I try. The thought of having another row to plant other things is too enticing! I'll keep you all posted as the season progresses!

And as far as those pesky squirrels go . . . I know they'll be a battle in themselves! My doggies would much rather lay around on their floor pillows in the house but I might send them outside regularly to check up on the veggie beds! I'm more worried about the critters than designing my beds :(

Thank you again for all your help Angela & Dan.