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susancol_gw

Need an Engineered Opinion on a Trellis

susancol
14 years ago

I posted this question on the Tomato forum also, but didn't get as much response as I'd hoped. Also, I wanted to get the experienced Square Footers like EG and others to chime in on this idea, so here goes:

So, I have a 4x8 raised bed in which I put 8 indeterminate tomatoes each year. Last year I staked but was not satisfied with the outcome. This year I have decided to trellis. No, not cage, trellis. For various reasons. I've seen several examples of folks (EG) who have a similar setup who run the trellis down the middle and grow the tomatoes on either side. My concern is this. If I'm lashing the tomatoes to the same trellis from either side, won't that cause them to have little to no air circulation in the middle? Won't that be a disease haven?

Prune? you say? I don't want to prune. At least not much. I'm already dealing with limited production due to some shade.

So I was thinking of running twin trellis...trellises?...trelli? down the center with a gap of about 8-12 inches. Am I crazy? Is this overkill and unnecessary? Any suggestions or reassurance would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Susan

Comments (11)

  • Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)
    14 years ago

    are my trellisi. My toms are 18" OC and I pinch out suckers probably twice a week to maintain adequate circulation. I train up twine. Material is 1/2 and 3/4 EMT conduit, you can do an 8' span of 1/2 for US$10.00, maybe a bit more depending upon how much rebar costs there. I don't know how you'd space at 1' and not prune and get adequate circulation nd have room to look for critters and pick.

    Second, you want to rotate your toms to lessen the chance of soil-borne disease.

    Dan

  • engineeredgarden
    14 years ago

    Susan - Tomatoes supported back to back on trellises that are 12" apart is gonna be a problem. Toward the right of the picture below, you can see one of my trellises with tomatoes planted back to back on the same trellis - spaced 2 feet apart. This is the only way I recommend doing it, because the unpruned plants really occupy the given space later.

    I don't run into any disease problems from poor air circulation, but imagine you will, if doing as intended. Your trellises should be spaced at least 7 feet apart - minimum. For reference, here's the same trellis a few weeks later, as you can see the thing is really starting to get filled out.

    And even later, they'll get like this....

    I hope this helps, and let me know if you'd like more input.

    EG

  • jengc
    14 years ago

    OK I don't understand this. All the tomatoes that I have grown bush out and NEVER get that high. Are those different kinds of tomatoes? If not, do they grow higher because they are restricted to grow fuller? I am just blown away by that picture and another one that had a wall of tomatoes as high as the house! I just assumed that it was the type of tomato but what kind is that EG?

  • engineeredgarden
    14 years ago

    Jengc - any indeterminate variety will do this, but these particular ones were better boy. My plants last year grew 9 feet tall, and it was difficult to support them.

    EG

  • oasis_226
    14 years ago

    I agree with EG. The idea of two parallel trellises seems to be asking for trouble with disease and ventilation. I trellis a 4x8 bed, and get 5 plants in the 8 foot x 1 foot North trellised squares. I'm not a big pruner - just suckers and anything within 6 inches of the ground. You might squish 8 plants onto that trellis, but as you can see 5 is already pretty dense, and this picture was taken in June so they got a lot bigger.

    I used 3/4 EMT and 4 foot high concrete/cattle panels (6 inch square holes. I usually leave a 1 foot gap at the bottom between ground and trellis for ventilation and train the tomatoes up to it. Once they are in the trellis I bend them and wind them back and forth to the top.

    Here's a picture

    For whoever asked about height ... yes, some tomatoes are shorter than others. For example Better Boy is a tall grower and Cherokee Purple is fairly short - at least in my experience. However, trellising really brings out the maximum height too as you are constantly training them upwards.

    David

  • Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)
    14 years ago

    And determinate vars are often bushier, making the OP scheme even more problematic. I train mine up twine so I can untie at the top, then lay down and cover when fall frosts come. Then the next day I pick them up and re-tie. But I'm much colder here than in the South.

    Dan

  • engineeredgarden
    14 years ago

    Oasis - That's the same way I do, except mine are tied up with cloth strips when possible. It's funny that your CP didn't grow tall, because mine always grow around 8-9 feet.

    EG

  • jengc
    14 years ago

    OK well I just researched that my OxHeart Tomato will grow about 6.5 ft. That is about as high as all of mine last year so WHEW!! lol I would like to see one 8 to 9 ft tall, but I don't think I would be able to harvest it very well since my garden is on a hill and I would kill myself falling off the ladder to get the fruit. :D

  • susancol
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Ok, clearly I didn't explain myself well. So I'll try a rough diagram.

    As I understand it, EG's setup is like this:

    x I
    Â Â &nbspIx
    x I
    Â Â &nbspIx
    x I
    Â Â &nbspIx
    x I
    Â Â &nbspIx

    What I was suggesting was like this:

    Â Â &nbspIÂ &nbspI
    x IÂ &nbspI x
    Â Â &nbspIÂ &nbspI
    Â Â &nbspIÂ &nbspI
    x IÂ &nbspI x
    Â Â &nbspIÂ &nbspI
    Â Â &nbspIÂ &nbspI
    x IÂ &nbspI x
    Â Â &nbspIÂ &nbspI
    Â Â &nbspIÂ &nbspI
    x IÂ &nbspI x
    Â Â &nbspIÂ &nbspI
    With twin trellis, nothing planted in the middle to allow for air circulation.

    All in a 4'x 8' bed, so that each tomato has a 4 square foot part of the space allocated. And I was thinking that the gap in the middle would be anywhere from 8inches to a foot to allow for the tomato growth to poke through to the other side of the trellis and still have enough airflow.

    I see the point of the staggered planting, but the way my soaker hoses are set up, the outer edge of the beds don't get good water. And if I stagger, one tom on each side will be close to the edge of the bed.

    I'm probably overthinking. I do that. Especially about gardening LOL!

    And thanks so much for your quick responses! :)
    Susan

  • engineeredgarden
    14 years ago

    Susan - I believe you are over - thinking. :-) Here's a quick drawing that shows my 4x8 planting for this year.

    EG

    Here is a link that might be useful:

  • susancol
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Thanks, everyone. This is exactly what I needed. Reassurance that if I planted tomatoes on either side of one single trellis that the jungle created wouldn't be so bad that it would become a disease haven. Last year's staked tomatoes wound up leaning in to each other and with all the rain, the foliage suffered in there. But I'll be a brave little toaster and go with the experienced advise of my gardenweb friends! One trellis it is. :)
    Thanks again!
    Susan

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