I'm interested in others response to this question. Only one of my beds has a weed barrier with mels mix in it, and so far i haven't noticed a single earthworm. In my soil based beds there are many earthworms. Adding composting worms doens't look to me like it would work since there really isn't anything for them to eat, and regular earthworms won't want to live in that mix where they can't escape into the soil.

I know there's at least half a dozen of them in each of my beds as they're in my compost - you can see them as your scooping it up. My weed barrier is only several sheets of wetted down newspaper so eventually they'll eat their way in/out as they please.

As for the synthetic stuff, no, worms will not eat through it. I hate the stuff, personally...

Mel talks about it in the book and shows it when people are planting their boxes over lawn.

But I wonder if I really need it for an area that's already been cleared?

I guess my biggest concern would be that the suckers from the nearby hedge of mature ivy, or one of the roots from the sod lawn or the old crabgrass (that still pops up from time to time) would make their way into the boxes.

Interesting also the comment that there's nothing for them to eat. That's kind of true, if you're always providing finished compost and taking out the plant's roots. So maybe it's a moot point.

Hmmm... decisions. :-)

This year is my first SFG, but I've been taking worms directly from the compost pile and putting them in my squares. Hopefully by the time winter rolls around, the barrier cloth and cardboard will open up enough to give them an escape route to the ground.

I suppose Mel doesn't dwell on worms as much because his mix already provides much of what worms would - aeration, uniformity and nutrition.

I bought several dozen from a bait shop to put into my Mel's Mix with gravel and a weed barrier underneath and a good number of them died. I'm hoping it was just a case of old worms in the fridge at the store, but I can't be sure. I don't expect any worms will make it into my beds, but I'll try to put more in later.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sinfonian's garden adventure

well, treated lumber does have an insecticide in it and the first good soaking it receives leaches a bit of it out into the soil. Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to using treated lumber, they don't use arsenic in their process anymore, but like you suggested maybe by next year it won't be so potent in your mix.

Randomly, treated lumber is made by placing the lumber into a vacuum chamber and removing as much air as possible while drying out the wood very thoroughly. Then a fungicide, insecticide and herbicide is shot into the chamber as it's being repressurized and those substances are sucked up deep into the wood's fibers. Kind of neat. Every region around the country uses a different formulation of these three products based on local conditions. For example, in Detroit, treated lumber is green because of it's higher amounts of copper used in the fungicide but in the Nashville area the treated lumber is yellow because of the higher amounts of insecticide used.

:shrug:
Father was a brick mason by trade and all around handyman so I was forced to learn a lot of these random bits as a child.

I'm wondering how much of an issue this really is, as the formulation of the Mel's Mix, with its light texture and the fact that all the squares are regularly "turned over" and given fresh compost, really needs earth worms to help/improve it and its texture. I'm not "anti worm" as such, but without the landscape fabric the extremely aggressive mint that my SFG is in the middle of would have taken it over within a month last year. (Suddenly the idea of making a "worm ramp" up to my SFG bed occurs to me, but I have no idea if worms would use it.)

i think you're absolutely right. i don't think lack of worms is an issue at all if you're putting mels mix in your beds. it's something i try to cultivate in my regular soil based beds, but IMO, mels mix with a weed barrier doesn't quite fit the mold as part of a "natural ecosystem". i don't see that worms bring anything to the table in this situation.

you could always use wetted newspaper (non-glossy sections) instead of landscapers fabric instead. It decomposes within a year compared to the 10+ years of the synthetic fibers. And the worms will be attracted to the paper to eat it.

But I suppose it's all moot, other than being able to aid decomposition and add worm castings, there really isn't a whole lot of benefit to worms in our mel's mix...

Thanks for the info, folks. I agree... after thinking it thru, the loose soil is already achieved and there's not much for them to munch on so they'd be hungry and couldn't get out because of the weed cloth. Which I HAVE to have if I want to keep the nearby ivy out.
-k

one lady on the winter sowing forum told me to put 10 layers of newspapers down to cut the crabgrass. cuz ours is really bad here. it will grow thru anything!! so i'm doing that with 10 full newspapers (i'm thinking thats what she meant) minusing the shiny stuff. it'll make sure them crabgrass won't get thru.

ten layers = ten pages or about two sections.

The way to make it work, really effectively is to wet them first. I fill up a garden wheelbarrow with water and dip the sections in the water before I lay them out. Keeps them from blowing away as well as ensure that they form a single solid mat that is impenetrable for several months until they decompose (about a year)...

I am in Kristimama's camp. I've got invasive weeds under my garden area (I tried to get them all out but you never do). With the wonderful nutrients from the compost leaching down into the soil it'd only be a year or two before I had a dandelion the size of a tree with a 2 foot root popping up in my bed and morning glories winding around my veggie roots.

In my case, landscape fabric is a necessary evil. Though I do like the idea of amending with compost that may already have worms in it. If you can't invite worms to the party, kidnap them. /shrug

Here is a link that might be useful: Sinfonian's garden adventure!

Not every single square has to be mel's mix. Leave a "corner square" of native soil. The worms will thank you as the make their weekly visit to familiar ground.

lol on the kidnapping worms. I also have tag-a-long weeds, stones, twigs and the occassional grub or two in my compost but I would dare consider sterilizing it just for the sake of eliminating pests.

(although when it's used for growing mushrooms it does get steam pasteurized for 45-60 minutes) ha! now that was a fun bit of "contraptioning" to build. Two wagner steam wall-paper removers piped into a 60-gallon "deck box" via some CPVC. It maintains about 155(F) until they run out of water - which is somewhere around 55-75 minutes.

I must have super worms because I put a weed barrier down under my frames and I have LOOOOOOTS of worms. I can't dig an inch without disturbing a little wiggler.

Landscape fabric decomposes after a few years too, or at least becomes so brittle that its not longer effective while still being an annoyance. I have wild morning glories and dandylions, and since they are annuals, smothering for one season is all that is required to keep them from coming up from underneath.

The brambles (blackberries, raspberries, etc), bermuda grass, and crab grass are the things that are going to come up through a paper layer - but they'll tear through year-old weed barrier cloth too. I *thought* ivy only spread overground, with new shoots coming where runners had rooted, so that should not be a problem coming up from underneath.

The worms to show up in my beds and help mix the compost deeper into the soil, including steadily breaking up a clay layer that comes up close to some of my beds where it crumbles now when I'm digging instead of mashing.

well, i just took the dog out to potty tonight and saw a nightcrawler tunnelling back down into my bed. i put a thick layer of cardboard down under mine and they've managed to find their way in. I guess I do have some small spaces just around the posts where they might get in. I'm such a noob gardener that i wasn't even sure if it was good to have worms in the mel's mix but it sounds like it's more desirable than not....

I installed professional landscaper's fabric in mine, with mel's mix - and the last time we had a big rain, I must have counted a dozen worms on top of the mix. I really don't know how they got in there, but I only have to pull 1 weed per week, in a 25 ft x 4 ft bed.