Now that sounds like a fun project! I'm thinking about trying something similar on my patio after I get down to Arizona this winter. I've never been able to get anything (other than cacti) to grow there, so I might experiment with just one box this year. We'll be going later than usual, so probably won't get there until around the first of November, but we shouldn't have a freeze until mid-January. That will be of short duration, so IF anything grows, I may be able to protect it!

Be sure to keep us updated on your project, and GOOD LUCK!!

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

Glad to see you're starting to get into SFG! I would recommend reading the book... I bet you could find it at your library?

I'm not sure about using sand. It drains really well, but won't help retain moisture in your soil. It's not usually the best planting medium, at least for veggies.

Mel's Mix is what is recommended by the author of Square Foot Gardening. It makes it very easy to garden using the SFG method. It basicly consists of 1/3 by volume of a mixed variety of composts, 1/3 by volume of coarse vermiculite, and 1/3 by volume peat moss.

Al's mix is what the container gardeners use to plant in because it lasts a very long time undisturbed for containers that will keep a long-lasting plant. I'm not so sure it's the best soil for SFGing. In my opinion, it wasn't meant for veggies.

I know this helps some. If you have any other questions, just let us know, okay?

~Angela

Granny, I was checking out your garden blog earlier today... wow! That's an awful lot of produce. :)

Angela, thanks for the comments, and I'll definitely let you know if I have more questions. :) I wanted to start with sand so I had a base that drained well; the box is sitting on top of newspaper (a la lasagna gardening) and then clay/rock. I figure I have enough space on top of the sand for at least 6 inches of "real" growing material.

My library *does* have SFG, and I just put it on hold so I can check it out.

This afternoon I picked up my horse manure, and I'm letting it sit for a couple days in hope of composting it -- it's pretty fresh, and I'm pretty sure it'll grow me some weeds. So I'm debating whether or not I'll actually use it, vs. letting it heat in the sun for a while and then using it later when the box needs more dirt. Black Kow is usually a pretty good start for a compost mix :).

Welcome and glad you got something out of my blagh. That's what it's there for, to enlighten and encourage.

And I'm afraid I agree that sand isn't much good for anything but carrots. But since you had 10 inch beds, they're forgiving. And I do have 3 inches of gravel in my 16 inch beds.

Good luck and hope we can help you succeed!

Here is a link that might be useful: Sinfonian's garrden adventure!

I think the sand is a good idea. Roots hate soggy bottoms, and the sand will give you some good drainage over that clay, especially with a lot of soil/compost over the top of it. I had my best garden ever on a sandy hillside...not much more than a sand dune. It took and awful lot of water and a bit of composted horse manure/straw, but it was a gorgeous thing!

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

Ooook. I have a question now, and you all might just have to tell me I'm being silly.

I just met my new neighbor's dog, and I'm not too excited about the wee beastie. It doesn't seem to be awfully well behaved, though it's not 100% brat (ya gotta give them space to be excited about new people!), and it was particularly interested in the plants on my porch. The plants that *I* eat. A little bit too interested, and I'm feeling territorial -- and honestly, a little bit nervous that this dog is going to take an interest in my garden box and make me unhappy.

I'm really tempted to go figure out some sort of a gate for my deck so the dawg can't attack me or my plants, and I'm starting to have visions of chicken wire around my SF garden -- Wallace and Gromit, antipesto at your service!!

Am I just a little bit too disturbed by a dog that will probably *mainly* leave the plants around unless there is a fascinating human in them? Or is there an easy (and cheap!!) fix that will still give me access to reach into the SF garden bed? (I guess if I bought four 4-ft-long gates, I could put one on each side of the bed and open them for working -- but that sounds kind of silly and overkill)

*sigh* What do you folks think? I never cared about dog intrusions when I was gardening in my own ground, but then most of my neighbors kept their dogs leashed and well-behaved.

The garden bed, by the way is doing well -- I added in a mix of composted stuff yesterday, plus peat moss, and need to find me some vermiculite for the last third. For now, the soil conditioner will have to do (my addition -- I love the stuff, it's teh bomb for hanging onto water while allowing just the right amount of drainage).

I have two LARGE dogs (great dane and malamute) and this was one of my main concerns as well as the only place for my sqft garden was in their dog=lot. I had posted elsewhere that I didn't think dog pee was what was meant by "water frequently". Surprisingly, after the innitial sniffing and curiosity, they've left well enough alone. This coming from a dog that has eaten dry-wall in the past was amazing to me. If anything, the malamute tries to lick the dirt, but leaves the plants alone. Once I mulched it, it was no longer a problem.

Honestly, I have more trouble keeping my 1 yr old from picking off the "balls" from my tomato plants and trying to play in the dirt than the dogs getting in there. I doubt most dogs would actually eat the raw vegies when you'd give them to them outright.

Basically, I'd say let him sniff around until he gets bored and it becomes mundane. That,and buy yourself a water gun. Pick him off when/if he goes beyond sniffing. He'll learn. Then again, spritzing him with the water gun sounds like a heck of a lot of fun....bring it on!!!

I had to fence my garden off from my two pups. No pee or poo problems, but they always enjoy climbing into the boxes and laying on the nice cool plants. It was fun to uproot the lettuce, too. Luckily they are small dogs, so I got by with 2' high fencing that I can step over easily.

Maybe you could just buy some wire fencing, cut it to fit each side, and weave a thin (bamboo, plastic, wood) pole or dowel through the ends to just poke down into the dirt at the corners of the box. You could just lift it out to gain access, then push it back in.

In fact, you can buy plastic mesh fencing, by the roll, at Wal*Mart that would work well, I think it was around $10 for a big roll of it. I used that before I put in the fence. I screwed a three foot high 1"x2" board to each corner of the box, drove three screws half way in to the top, center and bottom of each board, and just looped the plastic mesh over the screw heads. A light tug to unloop it, and I was able to reach the plants.

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

Great tips, you guys. That's interesting that two of our SFG'ers both had very different experiences who both have two dogs around... wow...

As for when I said, "I know this helps some. If you have any other questions, just let us know, okay?" in an earlier post... I MEANT to say , "I HOPE this helps" instead. LOL! Ooooooooooooooops! That's sooo silly, I know this helps... good grief... (I must have been feeling a little egotistical that day and didn't even know it)... I KNOW this helps... see there... I KNOW... hahahahaha

~Angela

Haha, Angela, I didn't even catch that! There was a little oddness bug, but work is driving me crazy so I'm doing everything else pretty fast and not worrying much about the details...

Thanks for the tips-- I've stopped hyperventilating :D-- the dog isn't out a lot, and since things are kind of crazy I think I'll just keep an eye on things and hope for the best. The neighbor's cat has pretty much been ignoring the box, and I'm not planting catnip, so fingers crossed!

Granny, I like the screw head/plastic mesh idea -- that's easier than anything I'd thought of!! That plus ribbit's water gun idea should keep me pretty happy if the critters do turn into pests.

Where do you all find vermiculite, by the way? Home depot didn't have any, and I didn't see any in my local indy hardware store when I stopped last. Wal**mart? Lowe's is my other big option in the area.

docarwen, I was just reading (in another area of Garden Web) that if you look in the building supplies for insulation, you can find the very same stuff as is sold in the gardening departments but for much, much less money! And it evidently says right on the bag that it is the same. Here is a link to the posts.

Here is a link that might be useful: Insulation vermiculite

Thanks for the tips-- I've stopped hyperventilating :D

LOL!!! Boy, I'm glad to hear that! hee hee

Where do you all find vermiculite, by the way?

What I did was asked my nursery to special order some in larger quantities. The nursery was the only place here that has it (other than maybe the insulation kind from the suggestion Granny made). All I saw were the small bags and that got expensive quickly. They got me the large bulk coarse vermiculite for $25. I have no idea if it can be gotten cheaper, but I was sooo glad to pay less than what I had been! I see it as a one-time expense and am happy that they have it for that price.

~Angela

I'll chime in and say that, in our area, Lowes is the most expensive place for vermiculite. They sell it in teeny bags and it's really pricy. I got mine at a hydroponics store for cheap. I didn't even think to try a construction type place granny! Wish I had been reading you then, lol.

docarwen, I'm telling you, you're missing out on the fun you can have with a water gun and an unsuspecting dog. It's the stuff dreams are made of.

I tell you seriously when I say that the Great Dane is a digger. Found this pic of one of the holes the dog dug from when my son was two. We fondly called this "The China Project" as he's going to dig to.....Yup. China. Sadly, the kid bought in to it as well. The look on his face is one that is processing that he's really not going to get to go to China after all.

Oh, how adorable!

My doxies are diggers, too. Here's Annie, just as proud as can be about the hole she has dug in my newly spread mulch!

{{gwi:1284797}}

She couldn't deny it was her...look at the dirt on her nose!

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

Wow, I better not see anything that looks like that!

Called home depot yesterday, and their only blow-in insulation is made of shredded newspaper. I'll call Lowes today, but I might just have to go and buy what I can if they have it in their garden center. Costco doesn't seem to have any online... Ha, there's a link dedicated to helping people find vermiculite!

Here is a link that might be useful: vermiculite

One of my friends suggested a local garden supply store that I had never heard of -- right in downtown Durham, and they have a whole bunch of useful stuff. (it's called Stone Brothers in case anybody else has the same problem) So I have a 4cf bag, and one of my local gardening friends is looking forward to visiting. Tomorrow morning, mixing time (with a mask-- even if there isn't asbestos, I bet it's dusty!). And then I'm all set to start marking out my squares and planting!

Vermiculite is mixed in! Two tomato cages are standing at the edges, waiting for the row cover drape. Waiting for my seedlings to get big enough to transplant. It's been below 80F for about the last week, and it's making me itchy to get plants in -- but 80+ today, so I can relax a little bit.... Would like to drop in a couple seeds so they can start germinating ASAP.... All in good time, always in between work!

docarwen, good job! We're patiently waiting for pictures, you know *g*

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

Glad you found your vermiculite. I would have suggested calling your nursery's supplier. I find they are a great resource and normally sell it cheap.

Great work getting it all worked out! Good luck getting a harvest before the frost!

Here is a link that might be useful: Sinfonian's garden adventure

Aargh, pictures! Yep, I am embarrassed -- y'all have posted more pictures in "my" thread than I have!!
I'll set the camera to upload tonight, at least then it'll be on the computer!

Sinfonian, I should figure out who my nursery's supplier is. The nursery wasn't very helpful -- I figured they must have been more interested in selling 8-qt bags for $4 than helping me find a source of cheap vermiculite. Oh well, I've got the stuff, and I'll push harder next time.

THE DAWG likes my garden box. I will not swear. Botheration, I had wanted to not have to make gates... but at least if I do, I won't have to worry about the dog and cat!
Time for a visit to Wal*Mart. And if I do this, I'm making myself a gate for my deck too. I don't *care* if it's not neighborly, that dog is just a little bit too friendly!
(this is where i look fierce and glare -- no digging in my garden box, mine mine! ;)

(ok, minor temper tantrum over. time to go load some photos!!)

I can't wait to see the pics! Good ones there with your last post... hahaha... I bet you're running to get a switch from the tree just in case you have to threaten the puppy for being tempted by your box... LOL

~Angela

The frame! On newspaper a la lasagna gardening.

Adding in fabric per a friend's suggestion -- it's not on flat ground, so an extra bonus is that the dirt might not fall out!

3 inches of sand in the bottom... drainage, and maybe it'll give the roots some more space before they start attacking the sheets.

Dirt! Still pre-vermiculite (and pre-dog exploration)

Lookin' good, docarwen! I might suggest overfilling it a bit, as we've found the soil will settle about three inches. Those L brackets on the corners are a good idea. I'm just waiting for the screws to fall out of mine and the boards to topple over! I might just do a reinforcement next spring.

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

Aah, thanks, Granny! I've been a bit worried about soil settling; I know this stuff is supposed to stay loose (unlike my NC clay!), but potting soil settles just from rain! Adding the vermiculite filled the box up to the top and made mixing just a wee bit more challenging. (I think Mel recommends mixing in a wheelbarrow, but I just don't have one) After I saw your comment I went out and added a little bit more vermiculite, and the box is brimming with mixed soil now. Maybe I'll add that extra bag of garden soil in a day or two, and plant on Saturday. I also tried to tack down a weed cover -- black for warmth, cover as an initial deterrent to the dog -- but it's already blown off everywhere except where the tomato cages are actively holding it down. Time to dig out the ol' garden stakes!

Stopped at Walmart last night and found some $7 plastic fencing. Looks about right for the purpose. Next, a couple sticks o' wood, and it's time for the hammer-and-nail experiment!

That plastic fencing is real handy. If you got the same kind I did, it also works great as bird netting. The quail were eating all my baby spinach, so I just floated the plastic netting over the bed and tacked it loosely with thumb tacks.

Keep us posted on your garden. I have already begun my fall cleanup in mine, and soon it will be bare. I'll have to get my gardening excitement from reading about the progress of others :-)

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

I used Mel's Mix for 2 yrs now. The problem I had was finding vermiculite at a reasonable price. I live in Baltimore, MD and the only source I found was $14.00 for a 2cu ft bag. I was told that it would be cheaper to purchase it in a more rural setting, and that was true. While in Kent Co I found it at a garden center for $12.00 for a 4 cu ft bag. I could order a 6 cu ft bag for $16.00 from the gaden center. I found out from a manager there that the products were shipped from, yup, Baltimore, MD. I contacted their supplier and found that I could save by picking it up from the seed company which was less then 20 minutes from my home. So, for anyone in the Baltimore area, Meyers Seed Company is the best source that I found.

By the way, I adopted a pit bull terrier puppy who over 2 months distroyed 5 pepper plants, 4 watermelons, 12 tomato plants, 4 grape vines, 3 squash plants, a tray of onions and dug several 2 ft deep holes at various locations in my yard. And she proudly bought me each dead plant. Terriers are very focused diggers....the joke was that she was digging her way to China for the Olympic games. Oh well, I have erected a fench around my garden and I will try again next year.

My two doxies are currently excavating a fence pole. I figure they have about 10" left before it topples and they have access to the garden. I'm glad they chose to dig out the pole rather than just dig under the fencing. Nobody said they were the brightest dogs in the world, but they sure are cute and lovable.

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

The fence is in!!! I took pictures and will get around to posting them... since the soil has sat a couple days and been rained on, I figured I would add another cubic foot of something to top it off again, so in went my unused miracle gro garden soil. This is so not Mel's mix. ;)

Yesterday I went over to the library to pick up Coleman's Four season harvest, and took a quick skim through it. Man, I'm so not going to get a harvest this year, am I??!! Bummer.
Well, I'm hoping that my swiss chard will keep producing through the winter. They've stayed pretty healthy, and are in a nice deep container, so I'm planning to group my pots together and drop some row cover over them on cold days/nights.
And I finally stopped at the store and bought lettuce. Mine are just taking too long to grow, and I've been debating the purchase for a couple weeks.
Everything else... I'll see how it goes. Worst scenario, I'll have a really nice winter sowing and my early spring garden will be amazing. Still have my fingers crossed for the broccoli and brussels sprouts that I started outside in August. They're still small, but looking better than the stuff I started indoors later.
Still, if I only get radishes, I probably won't complain! (just pout a little bit and learn for next time :)

Wow, it's been a while since I posted here! Finally I found my camera-to-computer connector and got my act together and posted everything. Here goes!!!

Complete with pictures, the one, the only... Pepys' Square Foot Garden circus!!

September -- adding just a bit more dirt, setting up a wee fence to protect against the scurrilous Neighbor's Dog (idiot beast has been digging in my pots. in my pots. Vile creature.)

Early October -- after planting a whole bunch of stuff, I tacked some row cover onto the fence. I had meant to use it to make a mini greenhouse, but it's been easier to drop the row cover "roof" right on top of the plants instead of worrying about construction every time it gets cold. My broccoli is trying to grow, but the vermicious cabbage loopers are attacking it. Bacillus thuringensius (sp?) to the rescue!

Later in October. Things are growing, and I've added toilet paper rolls to support leek mounds. The little plants are radishes -- no kidding, they grow fast!

This Friday -- look at all that growth!

And after I installed my heat sink, aka San Pellegrino...

And finally, in case you want to know what a plant is or when it was planted... voila!

WOO-HOO!!! Docarwen is growing toilet paper! No kidding, that stuff can get expensive *g*

All kidding aside, it really is looking great. I think you're going to pass SFG 101.

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

docarwen - thanks for posting those pics! Everything is looking good! BT (bacillus thuringiensis)will get the worms under control, no problem. Yay!

EG

You rock! The garden looks awesome and I think you have really added some great ideas to the table!

Woohoo, thanks you all! I'm glad if I can add any useful ideas -- the global level of gardening innateness... well, poking in here feels like I get to eavesdrop on a bunch of people who have been gardening for over 50 years each (somebody is going to point out that at least 2 people here *have* been gardening at least that long )! That's a lot of green thumb!

Granny, here's hoping I pass SFG 101 -- temps apparently hit 32F somewhere in the area tonight, and I'm still bunked up with my computer at work, no chance to go home mid-afternoon at all and cover stuff. So... yeah, I didn't get that garden covered today. I guess I'll take a good look at my green pepper and see if I can harvest everything if it's tanked, but I'm really hoping that the **winter** garden takes a couple hours of hovering at 32F.
The swiss chard will be happy... if all else fails, I have the swiss chard. ;) Plus my indoor babies --- OOH, I haven't taken any recent pictures of them! How careless. Well, it's about time to go home and get some sleep here, just want to run one more analysis (this is how it goes: 'just one more analysis... just one more... ').

My old/non-square foot garden blog is linked... I don't update a lot anymore, but when I do post garden stuff in my catch-all blog, I usually try to drop a copy in the linked blog.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pepys garden blog (docarwen's)

docarwen, I tremble at 32F, I cry at 28F. It seems a lot of stuff will survive 32, especially if it is on higher ground or near a heated building, but 28 has been my magic number for a killing frost if stuff isn't protected. Mind you, I've never attempted to grow a winter garden, that is just the temperature where every formerly living thing is no more, and I take to my rocking chair for the winter (yeah, right).

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden