John - first of all....you're the man!!!!

Hey everybody - John went OT!

Ok...John, I can only tell you about my experience. I love the outdoors, and work outside as much as I can. However, my boys are teenagers - and whine like 2 little girls everytime I make them come outside to help me with something. I don't understand it! I am 40 years of age, and in my opinion - the kids of today are absolutely useless. Heaven help them if the economy gets so bad that everyone must live off of the land again. They'll starve! Don't get me wrong, sometime it's not their fault, it's their parent's....Also, this same thing applies to adults also. Laziness......it's all about laziness.

EG

I'm the only outside person in this OLD family. Husband mows the lawn (riding lawnmower) and that is it. He'll sit out on the front porch and watch cars go by, but never pull a weed, plant or pick a veggie or flower, edge the lawn, trim the shrubs, hose down the house, paint. I do it all. I do have a lawn service apply crabgrass pre-emergent and do a liquid weed/feed four times a year, but only because we get back from AZ too late for the early applications. Our yard would be solid crabgrass and dandelions if I didn't have it done. The only time I see young people out in our neighborhood, it's on their patios with radio blaring and a cellphone in their ear.

I'll tell you one thing, John. If this country ends up in a depression, it will be the people right here in the veggie garden forums who will survive. I was telling Mr. H last night that along with the garden we could put some chickens in the back yard, and we'd never have to worry about where our next meal came from. I'd probably have to feed all my grown children, though...I doubt they could handle it.

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

welcome to the OT john!! its so fun!! the problem is the dang parents, they let the tv and games babysit the kids, i don't do that. hubs wants satellite tv again. i'm wanting it, but afraid to get it, that means the kids will fight over who gets to see what cartoon all day long, so as long as there's no cartoons all day long there's the kids outside playing on their bikes like i did when i was a kid, no games to play in the house unless board games. if its gonna be a video it has to be a wii so they get reall action. so since i know we can't afford that i put the table to high for them!! "smart ma" also i can't play them games, only the older ones, because of the seizures. so i keep things just so. now my kids aren't like all the other's. tabor said everyone else has a gameboy, i said, well you aren't everyone else, now are you?? i do have a neighbor that is at least in his 60-70's and he is out there every single day takn care of his lawn, if he don't his wife (korean) will leave imprints on his hiny!! LOL
most of the people here do their own stuff and spend time outdoors. but in town where my mom lives, totally different story!! ~Medo

I TOTALLY AGREE!!! Our neighborhood is mostly young children (3-8 yrs) and none of them are ever outside. Granted they can't go out alone, so this means that it's the parents that won't bring the children out. At least they HAVE to play outside in pre-school.

Moreover, I teach HS and whereas I used to get kids bringing me hind quarters of deer for Christmas (hey, hunting is an outdoor sport) now they're too concerned with their MP3 players and cell phones than anything else. And I agree with you Medo, I can't let my son play video games either because of my seizures, so at least I'm not rotting his brain by doing that, but I am guilty of him watching an extra show or two so I can get some essays graded.

But John, it's more than just a problem. It's an epidemic. I remember that at least one day out of every weekend my family would pile in the car and go somewhere: mountains, state park, small festival of one sort or another. Now, it's rare to leave the house on the weekend. We're trying to organize a neighborhood picnic and so far we've only got three families willing to take their kids.

Yes, teens are supposed to wallow in abject misery in their dark, closed off rooms. That's their jobs. However, we would be lax in our jobs of making their lives miserable if we didn't drag them outside like EG said. It's by them being drug around by us and showing them how to live instead of just telling them how to live that we're going to avoid other drug issues and give them the self confidence to have half a brain and realize that when their friends say, "I have an idea", that it will usually wind up with someone's car in the lake. We have to guarantee that our kids will remember the pretty weather, the mountains and the fairs and take their children to them for we all know it takes a village to raise a child and the outdoors is as much a memeber of that village as I am.

Sorry to have gone on so much. I just feel strongly about this. Thanks, John for posting it. I'm headded to school now to take everyone outside for a bit of descriptive writing. You've inspired me.

Wow, how do I respond to all this? I would like to get boxes 15 and 16 built, and in place before the rains come and get back to the forums this evening.

granny, you are correct. Wrong choice of words. Had I changed either of them it would have sounded differently.

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Johns Journal

Oh, John..I wasn't addressing your choice of words, just saying there are no young people around here (unless they're just visiting for a day). One of our favorite phrases in this house, when speaking to our children/grandchildren is "Why, when I was your age I could/did (fill in the blanks)"!

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

You know, imho, I think the exact issue is a loss of community. I hate to say this because it sounds bananas, but we're probably the poorest folks in our family. We've done mission work in Haiti, so we're aware of the fact that if you're from the US and claim to be poor, you're insane (sorry to wander). In any case, we have a small home in a small neighborhood. The reason we chose our home was because the night we came out to look at it, we had to stop the car and wait till the kids who were playing soccer stopped and cleared the street. We know all our neighbors and our kids are pretty free to go to the homes in our area. The lady two doors down had a stroke a year ago and my kids check on her once a week and the kids across the street go over once a week. If something happened to her, we would know it. Our kids play in the street and we watch them. We're kind of in the middle of suburban/rural PNW. Our wealthier friends will schedule play dates and calendar times to play league baseball. We're actually considering not letting the kids play a league, it just seems really sterile compared to our organic community. Our kids have a running game at night, and they don't have to worry about uniforms or whatever. State law out here says that if your kids are under 11 and unsupervised, they are neglected. All the kids in the neighborhood are eyeing plots at my place because they all want to grow their own pumpkins (uuuhhh...we're talking about twelve kids...YIKES!) I just think being poor in the US has been beneficial to our kids. As a former pastor's wife, I know the worst part of the coming recession/depression will not fall on the US, and I can't help but think it will actually be good for us, I just try not to focus on all the kids less than two hours from our border who will die because of it.

that's funny granny, i am on the young side compared to john and you, but i tell them the same thing, when i was younger if i did ......... or when i was your age.......... as if i'm like old and decrepid!!! LOL but ya know what i mean, i tell him when i was his age, i was on my bike all the time!! AND my favorite thing to do, dumpster dive for aluminum cans!! nowadays don't even think of it!! LOL
or when i was growing up if i even thought abt actin abt that way my mama woulda smacked me silly!! yep thats my famous one too!!

Weeellll.....

I'm probably on the young side in this forum, if enough other people have kids and grandkids. (I seem to be on the young side of gardening in general, but maybe that's because most people aren't crazy enough to build garden boxes outside an apartment -- though I got the idea from a friend about my age who did just that!)

I *hated* working in the veggie garden when I was a kid. So did my siblings. But somehow my mom's roses caught my imagination, and I guess the dirt got into my blood. I've never been without a plant or few since I left home for college.

Most of the gardeners I know are older than me. Probably by about 20, 20+ years. But... especially in my church community, I keep meeting people closer to my age who know plants. Not a ton, but some... some of the apartment people have a couple struggling babies (no green thumbs, poor folk -- but i'm *sure* they could develop at least a hint of green), some of the home owners have absolutely amazing gardens and veggie boxes and such.

There does seem to be a *huge* difference between boxcutter suburbia, especially if there are stupid HOA rules about no-farms-in-front-yard, and older communities [where there must be something wrong with you if you don't have at least 1 rain barrel ;)].

I know, it's ridiculous... our old, poorer neighborhood, was always outside talking with each other, working the flower beds, watching the kiddos, whatever... Here in the new one, we only see someone who has come outside to get into their car to go somewhere... It really is strange...

But, in the defense of parents.... it's really hard to let your kids go outside these days as at least we know there are dangers... if they were there before like they are now, we certainly didn't know they were as bad as we know they are now... I watch my kids like a hawk, and I'm sad to say that they hardly go anywhere because I have to be right there with them every moment...

There is also much more inside entertainment than there used to be... look at this computer that I'm pretty addicted to and some of y'all are, too... I could give a flip about TV watching, but most other people do this and do it for hours upon hours every week... then, goodness gracious, let's not forget video games... OH, don't get me started on that one... LOL

~Angela

So true, Angela. When I'm in AZ, I'm outside a lot more because I don't have the computer on all the time. Here, even when I watch TV I have the laptop on and I pay more attention to computing than to the TV.

My youngest daughter manages a big (450 unit) mobile home park, and the kids there do congregate outside to play. I think it's easier in a small, close knit community. My other daughter lives in that same mobile home park, so that puts 6 of my 7 grandchildren in the same neighborhood. But I never see children out playing anywhere around where I live. I walk over to the little neighborhood park occasionally and have never, in the 4-5 years it has been in existence, seen a single child playing there.

I love it when there are community events like the county fair, the Fiery Foods Festival, Art in the Park, Sacajawea Heritage Days, etc., to take the younger ones to, so we can enjoy those times as family, as well as get in a bit of a learning experience....and get away from computers, TVs, iPods and Play Stations.

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

I'm with you granny. I really love those small county fairs. I was SO bummed there was no guy dressed up like an ear of corn at the corn festival! What's that about?

I don't know, Carolyn, but when I took the grandchildren to our Sacajawea (Lewis & Clark) Heritage Festival everyone was dressed in 1800s attire, with many, many "working" displays of how life was in those days,and live music of that era. My grandson is half Indian, and there was a lot of information pertaining to his heritage that he found absolutely fascinating (he was 9-years old).

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

Boy, I canÂt respond to everybody, I hope nobody gets POed.

EG, my youngest son is one year older than you are; I hope you understand if I start scolding you.

Granny, The remarks I made about "choice of words, was my wording on your post "see what I made". Sorry for the confusion.

I had 5 children, one deceased, and 4 of the 5 are/were gardeners. The youngest is too busy landscaping a new house and lot, but his inquiries into composting and gardening give me hope. None of them are SFGers though, but I am working on that. My grandchildren are to young and are still sponging off there parents and pappy. My children and grandchildren are not indoor people though. I hope I can take some credit for that.

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Johns Journal

John - I need a good scolding once in a while! My dad is gonna be 75 in February, and sometimes he treats me like i'm still a kid. LOL . It's because of the age difference.
But, in all honesty John - I'm very concerned about the children of today. They can't do anything for themselves. Crap....I was working on HVAC when I was 14.

EG

John said: "Granny, The remarks I made about "choice of words, was my wording on your post "see what I made". Sorry for the confusion."

Well I got a real good laugh from it, John :-) I sure wasn't offended, I just thought it was funny! It really wasn't so much what you wrote, it was the way I took it (dirty old lady, LOL).

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

LOL
i agree with you EG and when i look at tabor, alot of times yes, don't get me wrong, i don't complain, that boy is my pride and joy!! i am so very proud of him, but sometimes i get very grumpy with the fact that he'd rather just ask and not try to figure out how to do something, its not the asking, mind you, its the him wanting to get me to do it for him, but if its for his grandparents, he's all over it. and he'll do his very best, no asking, in fact he'll go ahead and put his best foot forward. other times, that boy will do the same here. but it's getting his but in gear!! LOL i think he developed add from me!! LOL
IMHO parents don't make their kids do their chores like in our day's. befor we even could go and play with anyone or they could come to our house, chores HAD to be done, nowadays, who's doing the chores? if the parents aren't its the "help" if your in the good bracket. here i make mine do their chores. although i'm not that good on the great end of better get it done, i'm a wimp. **sigh** they have me wrapped at times, its those brown eyes, or their smiles. LOL
but we don't do the tv thing and the game thing, its a no go here. although they do like to watch movies, i like the scary ones, but only so much of them. (movies) if its hot out or rainy and such. angela, i think why you do that is the same reason i used to keep my kids in, the same "thing" we have in common. we watch our kids like hawks!! but i've learned to let them know how to judge a little. i knew to judge, my mom just NEVER listened to me. talla is a great judge of character. she just don't like adults very much!! LOL ummm i can't really blame her. (sorry) i don't either. i like either young kids, or older adults. i guess you could say, almost in a childs mind, safe people. but as we all know they're are no "safe" people. onto another subject. LOL
today was the fair day. kids all over. people grilling.
people roasting hogs, turkey's LOL it was neat. i even got out to meet a few people. i don't usually do that that much. the heat was a little overwhelming. its now dark out and tabor is still out there, although with his one friend and i'm getting a little freaked. hubs just left for work and has called me to see if tabor is back yet. we both are the same with the kids.
we had taco salad suprems. yummy. and tabor took his bread down to the fair building last night and he won 1st place. it looked awesome. so next year we are taking our tomato/potato down and talla can take her flowers down. she grows pretty flowers. so they BOTH will have something in.
~Medo

Congratulations, Tabor!! FIRST PLACE IS AWESOME!!

I hear you on getting the kids to do anything. My 14-year-old granddaughter was told four days ago to clean up her room (I saw it, it was AWFUL!). Well, for four days she cried and threw tantrums and got her cell phone and the computer taken away from her and was grounded to the house. Four days! Yesterday her mother brought her over here and her grandfather and I lit into her about her laziness and we told her to go home and clean that room, no excuses. Her mother called us two hours later, and the room had been cleaned. So she fought it for four days, and she could have had it done in an hour, and it would have been a win/win situation.

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

we have that same problem here sometimes!! thank goodness for grandparents!! sometimes i have to call my mom!! MOM the kids wont listen to me, i can't get them to get their stuff done, so she'll get on that phone and next thing you know things are getting done, i see a whole new attitude come over them two. but it only works once!! LOL a month that is!! LOL
but i usually don't do that, unless i am totally fried from them. talla is a papa's girl. now if we are shopping with nana, all she has to do is say, do we need to make a trip to the bathroom?? even i say no mom. LOL and i'm 38. i still remember the trips to the bathroom. my kids know all about them, so tabor had a talking to and he's still on the no nana list!! LOL he won't even go near that one. talla won't either. she know's. LOL i wish she'd just listen to me that good. for some reason here lately she has been going thru a stage of listening pretty well. so that's well. i have been doing this that's unacceptable behavior thing, and its working. it'll last another week (if that) at the most then she'll change her tactics again. but i've also changed to the if i have to paddle you, it will be you pulling down your pants and you getting 3 swatts. now that just freaks her out. so i think that works too. i know it works with the flipping off. it was 5 swatts(bare butted) for flipping off. so that gave me a clue!! LOL
~Medo

I might be getting way off topic on the already way way off topic post here, but I'm PO'ed at John for not mentioning my name... LOL

When my oldest one, Hannah, was just a baby, we were selling our house so we could move to the city we currently live where my mom and sister resided. We left our only child with my mom for two weeks when she was about 1 year old. We had power tools, paint, etc. going on to fix up the 'ole dump to try to get high dollar for her.... Well, we did get the big bucks, but we didn't know it then, of course... Anyways, we came here and picked up this totally obedient angel child when we'd left off this spoiled rotten, I don't know what to do with this kid, child... LOL... Pretty funny how we think we're doing it all right sometimes and find out that all we knew to do was completely bass ackwards... LOL

~Angela

Hello angelady, sorry for that, hope you forgive me. The number one thing that irritates me is people that ask, since you are retired, what do you do with all your time. I have always have had too many irons in the fire and at times, so many that I cannot do a good job at any of them. Currently I am spending most of my time at converting the rest of my garden to SFG at the expense of the forums and my journal, among other things.

But, in the defense of parents.... it's really hard to let your kids go outside these days as at least we know there are dangers... if they were there before like they are now, we certainly didn't know they were as bad as we know they are now... I watch my kids like a hawk, and I'm sad to say that they hardly go anywhere because I have to be right there with them every moment...
I think there were as many felons then as there is now. The difference being, the neighbors use to look out for one another including property and children. I once seen an interview with a converted criminal and his comment was, when casing a neighborhood they would look for people outside and if they noticed them going by. If the neighbors did notice, they would move on the next neighborhood. I think the best thing that could happen is for the parents to limit indoor entertainment time to matching homework time. My TV has not been turned on for almost a year now and I try to limit my computer time but I catch hell for forgetting some ones name, ;o)

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Johns Journal

here's the thing, we assume that predators are pradomantly sp males, but hubs works in the prison as ya'll know, and he works on the wing with the sexual molestors and such. he said there are more that do that to children that are females than people realize. he actually just hates that part of his job. and when he see's that a woman has done that to a two yr old child he just want's to say something so bad. but of course he can't. the bad part. besides' the obvious. is how big that wing is!!! and how many woman are in there!! makes you rethink who you can trust with your children.

John, i know what you mean about to many coals in the fire, sorta, i think. LOL i get so many things going and by the end of the day i think i might get one thing fully accomplished. that's usually the schooling and one uniform for the hubs. LOL and that's only because i have to. i don't have to fully finish the school day's thing but i do. that's my goal for the kids, i think that's why we are so far ahead. LOL
but i think this week since its not supposed to rain we'll go ahead and go slow and make some boxes so i can get some sfg done. LOL we have lots of leaves falling, so i think that'll make some great stuff in the boxes. and that manuer. kinda llike lasagna gardening. whatchya think?? ~Medo