OK science fans, I have a lovely pot belly stove that keeps around 25% of my home super toasty during the fall/winter. If I put a brick or two on top of the stove, could I tuck it in the hoop before bed? You think it would warm the soil? Or the air about the plants? Or just make me run about in the freezing cold in my slippers at night?

Carolyn - I can give you some input.

First of all, with the phenomenon of heat transfer, heat flows naturally from a heated surface to a cooler surface. So, if you place heated bricks under your hoop cover, in reality - what will happen is....the air mass surrounding the heated bricks will absorb the heat from them, until the differential temperature (or delta "T") between the 2 have equalized.

Obviously, the amount of surface area of each mass will make a difference. So, if you can seal off the hoop cover to keep all outside air from coming in, and you have enough heated bricks under there....it will work!

EG

Cool eg! I'm going to have to consider this.

Carolyn - very good....i'm glad I could help you...

EG

I'm not currently seeing any temp difference inside my hoop cover and outside. /sigh

Sinfonian - that sucks....hmmm...is it pretty much air tight?

EG

so lots of heated bricks!! hmmm!! i have lots of bricks!! hmmm....how to heat them babies!! LOL
Sinfonian your temp readings were very interesting!! i'm wondering how they will hold in the "winter".
well, seattles winter. LOL i used to live in tecoma when i was 13. one thing i remember about that place was that aweful aroma!! **still holding nose** **grinn**
EG our weather is getting pretty cold here at night too, man i hate that!! but not nearly as cold as your place, and here i thought alabama was supposed to be warmer?? LOL
i had always wondered about the frost part, but we have had frost at 35 and 34. so that's why i HAD to bring mine in. of course i understand why ya cant on yours!! LOL
and that was not a dumb question about the frost!! dangit!! then that means i'd have a dumb question!! ummm no can doo!! Hee Hee **grinn**
~Medo

Medo - the weather is kinda strange here at times...especially in the winter. The average frost date for my area is stated as October 15th, but usually is a couple of weeks later than that. The brutal summers are the only thing that you can count on every year - hot and humid...

My main concern right now is the cowpeas. They are really intended to be grown in the hot summer heat, but I had no room for them at the time....Currently, I figure if they will make it another 2 weeks - i'll be eating lots of peas! That is....if they get through this unscathed. :(

EG

Hmmm... The temps in my garden beds under the plastic were colder than on my back deck. I just figured the house must put off some heat or something.

I put blankets under my plastic for the cold nights. That made a huge difference in the temps of the beds. With only plastic, it was sometimes a couple degrees colder in the garden than the back deck. Under blankets, it was much warmer in the beds. I lost the zucchini, tomato and cuke at 18 degrees. My pepper plants are still alive though (slightly different set up). They all survived the low 20's before they froze.

I'm adding a link to some more info about what I did with mine... Hope it helps...

Here is a link that might be useful: Season Extenders on RMG forum

Sinfonian, I posted this to your blog as well, but have you checked to make sure both of your thermostats read the same in the same environment?

We had this problem with a digital home thermostat we bought. It had never been set properly at the manufacturer.

BAD EG!!! its all your fault!! now our weather is saying monday night 28* i just know its all your fault!! Just kidding LOL
i can't wait till spring now!! LOL i know, weird as i am, i can't wait til the next thing!! LOL well now i want to skip the winter and summer months, i would be happyy if we had all spring and fall. yep that i could do with. could you imagine our heating and cooling bills?? WOW??!!!! LOL
i hope granny makes it there safely!! ~Medo i have to che out that site greenbeans!!

Greenbean08 - Thanks for the info, as well as the link to the post on the rmg forum. I think the more insulating properties the plastic has, better results can be expected. I'm planning on floating a 1 mil plastic sheet over the vulnerable crops - then wrapping the entire garden box with 4 mil plastic. This should do pretty well, hopefully.

Medo - It's not my fault.....The weather channel is still forecasting temps to be somewhere between 26 and 30 on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday nights, but the local meteorologist is only predicting the temps to get down to 32. Go figure....Either way, i'm wrapping this thing like a mummy! Finish that GH, and you don't have to wait til spring. To be honest with you, I like this fall garden much better than the summer garden. It rocks!

EG

Good luck tonight EG.

I thought we were in the clear, but it looks like we're in trouble as well. I can move my pots to the garage, but I'm worried for the garden. It's not draining well (maybe the landscape fabric is holding things back a bit too much, so I think the soil will freeze.

Ribbit - I wish I could move my garden indoors, that would be so much easier than wrapping the entire thing with plastic. I got er done, though! It looks pretty freaky! I'll open it on Thursday morning, and see what happened. BTW, i've got something to show ya...here's a link...

EG

Here is a link that might be useful: link for ribbit...the rocker

I plan on switching the gauges tonight to see how they react, but I've had them a while and never had much problem before I moved them both outside.

Going to have to visit EG's blog to see the mummy!

Let's see if they let me post this. Been days since I could post from my phone here. Grrr

Sinfonian - I didn't get to take a photo today...it took me til after dark to get the danged box wrapped up. Whew! The wind was blowing, and really caused me lots of problems with it! BTW, you were right...my lettuce is beginning to bolt. The buttercrunch tasted horrific! Blech!!!! Gotta get more salad dressing. :)

EG

Stop it.

STOP IT!

Seriously?

You know, the masquerade is a sketchy place, but it's perfect for them. Ahhh for a babysitter. I don't think they'd allow 1 and 4 yr olds in there, huh? Wonder if the grandparents would take them, but I'm not so sure since the boy told my father last night that if he got any older he would die. Seriously. His exact words.

Sorry, EG, not a rocker anymore. Had to sell the motorcycle, quit my second job at Harley and get that thing, aahh, what's it called, oh! "responsibility." Whatever. At least until the kids get older (much)to fend for themselves then I'm getting another bike. Students do still get pretty freaked out when they come to class and I'm playing Clutch or better yet old Anthrax on the CD player. Gotta keep them guessing.

Ah, Gwar. I've seen them a few times over the years. They sure do entertain the crowd! I have a friend who visited their warehouse probably 15 years ago where they made all of their costumes and special effects. His pictures were incredible.

Well....I have an update. First of all, EG very sick.. :(
Second, There was a very big frost overnight, and the entire enclosure had frost on the plastic sheeting this morning. Since the daytime temp is not supposed to get higher than around 52, i'm planning on leaving the plastic on until Thursday morning. It's gonna be really sunny, but I'd bet it wouldn't be able to raise the temps so high that it did any damage inside. Maybe raise it 20 degrees, at most? Tonight is supposed to be even colder. My wife asked me last night, "did you cover your plants?" I said, "yeah, you could say that!"

Ribbit - More than likely, i'm going to that show! The kids are really interested (age 17 and 20). I'm not concerned about the area. People generally don't mess with me in public....even in shady-looking places - cause i'm so big! :)

EG

What's the rationale for not letting the plastic touch the plants? Is it just that the contact will transmit the cold... leading to chilly plants... and plastic isn't as nice as something like row cover that can "float" above the plants? Or is it the weight of the plastic?

Nice garden wrapping, EG. I bet you could make a decent walk-in greenhouse just by shrink wrapping a light frame... ;)

Docarwen - yeah, I think that's the general idea.....not letting the plastic touch the plants is supposed to be better, according to John and Granny. I'll post a photo of the "wrapped garden" tonight on my blog. It looks really weird. I may have to make a miniature greenhouse after this....afterall - I've still got lots of scrap lumber laying around! Always building.........

EG

For you EG...you already have the trellis...just attach string across each one (to hold up plastic)...so you are making a tent), cover them w/plastic, then secure plastic at bottom with something heavy (extra boards or bricks are nice).

Make 3" slits (in plastic) 6" down from top (to allow some heat to escape and you won't have too much condensation and/or heat build-up!!!

Then when frost advisories are given...grab your plactic and go out late evening and pop in several "tea candles." (get'em from Walmart..in the camping section). Just make sure candles are NOT TOUCHING ANYTHING....(this will keep them warm enough but not too hot to cook'em!

During the day...you can take the plastic off. Only at night do they need them for frost protection.

I have pvc hoops over mine...when frost come calling...i take out my plastic, throw it over hoops, secure at bottom with bricks, and pop in tea candles....kinda looks like "dancing dim lights."...hehehe...COOOOL!

Wow, good to know. Do the tea lights provide enough heat to make a difference? How many lights per SF are we talking? I don't think it gets cold enough in my area to freeze under the plastic, but good to know that works!

And now I'm glad my cover is just loose enough to allow some air flow, even though I don't expect it to get too hot here until spring. EG likely has that issue.

sinfonian and EG, depends on how bright the sun is. I have an 8Â X 8Â hobby GH and with both vents wide open, it will exceed 90 DEG F in Jan and Feb. Zone 5

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Johns Journal

For you sinfonian...for a 4x4 bed..2 lights is enough. Then base this on how many beds you have and go from there. I have 4x12 beds, so 6 lights is what I use.

Try to cover bed right before the sun goes down to harnest the natural heat it gives. Then put in tea lights.

If your area is much colder...go with 4 in each 4x4 bed.

Remember...we are not trying to create a bonfire...hehehe.

Krintis :)

Sun in winter? Is there really a sun in winter? Naw.

We've got tea lights galore from my wife's obcession with oil burners. So if I see a nightly forecast in the mid to upper 20s I'll light a few per bed.

Thanks!

wonder what kinda things ya'd have ta use for a small gh? LOL
lets see if i don't get kicked off. this danged wireless is annoying me to death!! **GIGGLE**
we got all of the plants in, i lost the castor beans, the angel trumpet, and the datura. but i did take clippings. i wasn't so worried. i dug up my dahlia's. and some of my other one's i was worried about and brought them in. OMGoodness, hubs was not liking that after all the others i brought in. but i did promise to cook dinner every single night. real food and not just the all in one meals. so i think that made him happier. :') **big grinn** ~Medo
seeing some new/old faces. oh ya, EG what all did ya lose?? we are back to reg temps how about you??

Medo - I lost the cowpeas.....that's all. The bad thing is, it was 25% of my total fall garden. The broccoli and cabbage are the main things out there, but I just wanted to get these peas before winter. Oh well, next year - I know to plant them no later than August 1st. But, everything else is doing great! Wouldn't you know...the temps for the next week or so is gonna be 70's in the daytime, and 40's/50's at night. Figures......

EG

Quote: Sun in winter? Is there really a sun in winter? Naw.

Sure there is, I have proof! Feb 13 2008! There was sun.

Actually last year we had a record low number of sunny days during the winter. It was ridiculous! It was like 1 day every 3 or 4 weeks. Very depressing.

I have not tried to cover anything or put any hoops in, especially after losing the Tomatoes in the Tomato House ( which would is now on the left side of this picture).

I have read about people putting in 5 gallon buckes of hot water to provide some thermal mass.

Awww, you lost the cowpeas? I was hoping you'd get lucky.

Aww so sorry EG. I was so hopeful you saved them. Guess cold kills heat loving plants just like frost does. Next year plant them in summer and earlier in he fall I guess. Grrr.

Thanks, peel and sinfonian. These peas absolutely thrive in the intense southern heat, but just can't handle below freezing conditions. Oh well, i'll have better results next year. Everything else looks great!

EG

ok EG i have a plan for you!! first of all, get over the what if the tree falls on my gh!! dang man!! your an engineer!! and get over the some day i wanna not build something, uhhhh duhhh, your a guy!! that's totally NOT gonna happen, so here's the plan, sit down, oh ya, your doing that, LOL
now draw up a great gh plan and reinforce it and all that. now after thats done, then tell us about it and all. then hey man. get busy building it, then next fall/winter you can have a garden all year long!!! ~Medo Heee Heee now how in the heck does that sound??????? pretty great huh!!!! **giggle**

Hmm...you know, I could definitely design and build my own greenhouse. With my PLC programming background, I could even program and install a pretty inexpensive programmable logic controller with an analog input module for updating the cpu of the plc with temperature measurements. This data would, in turn - be able to control the temperature of the gh automatically, by opening vents to let fresh air in. Hmm....I really didn't intend on getting sophisticated with this gardening thing, but I just may have to. I'll definitely put some thought into it. Thanks Medo!

EG

Medontdo, Its just a matter of time. ;o)

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Johns Journal

yep!! LOL ya know, building is a guy thing, so i had to just put it out there and let him know, come on!! its gonna happen and just get on with it!! **wink wink** LOL
now to get on with mine!! LOL why don't my ol man get on with mine??? LOL i swear what do i have to do??? wait!!! don't answer that!! i'm afraid of that answer!!!! Hee Hee!! ~Medo

I got it! Fried taters with onions, pinto beans, cornbread, and a big piece of vidalia onion. That'll get hubs going.....And, he'll wanna be outside after eatin' all that. Hmm... Gh....more info needed. I think we should start a gh thread..........

EG

that would be cool!! i just need his help building it, tabor and i got the bottom part done, i'll take a pic and show ya, as per your instructions, except we used the 2x4 and we'll be having at the very least 2' of dirt covering the bottom. so that's gonna be cool!! i'll have to make that dinner!! i also want some of the seeds for that vidalia onions!! ohhhhhh i got me an idea!! when i cut them bottoms off, this time, i can throw them out, and see if they'll grow, and give me some more!! that would be awesome!! ~Medo

EG, that meal would get ME going. Where do you want me to start on that GH, Medo? LOL!!!!

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

YAY!!! Granny!! WOO HOO!! we have it started, it just needs to be finished. LOL maybe i can get him to works some on it with me tomarow. now that would be neat. :') man o man!! its sure nice to see you!! i said what do you think about that meal? and he said, i don't! i'm like what?? he don't like pinto beans. but i'm gonna make them sometime anyhow. we have enough of them. hey i got these fortex beans in a trade. i got tons of them. i hope they are good!! but it said beans so i couldn't pass that up!! LOL ohhh and it was a trade!! LOL ~Medo

Ok Medo, you've done it. You got EG going and now we get to see the best engineered, (read OVER) GH in the world! Whooot!

Ok....no gh this year. But, i'll consider one next fall...maybe. It'll have to be "special", though! Ha!

EG

EG, you remind me of my father. He could build anything and everything too. He wanted to build an observatory so he did, with no blueprints. It had a motorized rotating dome, and he even built the telescope and ground the lens. It was featured in Sky and Telescope magazine in 1971.

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

WOW Granny that is so cool!! EG what is the hold up?? if you start on it next fall, hmmm....when does that put it done at? just curious!? fall??? i just might have mine up first!! LOL maybe. LOL **giggle** i was born in 1971 granny!! well, now i feel really old!! hmmm....hubs said this week and next its supposed to be in the 70's. i hope it is for sure and no rain!! LOL ~Medo

Granny - that's really neat! Your father was a very skilled man. That's the kind of stuff that we do where I work, except it's alot more sophisticated with today's control systems. I would have liked to have met your father...it would have been an interesting conversation.

Medo - I build things really quick. A GH would be complete in probably 2 weeks.

EG

Whew! Yep, you post those gh plans... Now that I've built a SF garden once, I'm making plans for a "real" gh about 2 yrs out (when I make my next move to somewhere semi-permanent). I've got the floor partly planned -- black to absorb heat in case I go back to being a Yankee, and solid enough to be protective if I'm gardening on an apartment deck with cold air rushing underneath. But the walls? Nope, though I might borrow some of Eliot Coleman's ideas. Oh, and maybe a pot-bellied wood-burning stove in the middle. :D! (how many building code rules would that break??!!)

31 degrees here last night -- our first ~real~ frosty night. I drove home somewhere between 4 and 5 am, and could tell which cars hadn't been moved in a while because they all had a crisp layer of frost on the windshields. But then it didn't feel too cold at my door, and no frost on the row-cover! Phew!

And, just like your forecast, EG, we're looking at 40-70F for the next 10 days! But I think I'll wait till tomorrow to uncover again...

ya, i had to go out and take out all the dead stuff yesterday, and pulled up the malabar spinach i forgot to bring in. dang it!! but i seen it still had good roots so i'm gonna try and get it going again. 2 weeks??!! man i just love ya!!! can i borrow you?? LOL
i love to work, but i have to have someone to work with. ya know?? its so weird. well mom's in this weekend, so i think we're gonna go visit her for a bit, he don't want to leave the house open on the halloween. and because of tabor's trip to the hospital and missing that night he can't miss anymore work so i get tot ake the kids tricck or treating by myself!! ohhhhh the joys of mommyhood!!! LOL
ohhh how nice it would be to have a friend now!! LOL
yes the same degree's forcasted here. but at least we don't have to put on the heater!! LOL YAY FOR THT!!! ~Medo

Granny, that is SO cool. He left you an amazing legacy.
I have been toying with telling everyone who asks me what I want for Christmas and my birthday that I want a greenhouse. The only prob is my hubby'll hear about it and then he'd probably start the build. Sadly, he'd probably make it out of brick. He has a little love affair with brick going on just now. I'm trying to get him back to wood again, but I think he likes the straight lines.
My great aunt died on Sunday, so we have a funeral tonight (oh yeah, who was the doofus who wanted to bury her on Halloween? The other side of the fam...jerks). Fortunately my best pal here took mercy on me and is taking the kids to the church party.

Carolyn, my sympathies on the death of your great-aunt.

We are building a fence to keep the puppies safe. I wanted something that looked nice, since it will be in our front yard, but Mr. H is going with T-posts and welded wire fence. Bummer...no way can I make THAT look good. Oh well, Annie and Otter will like it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

OHHH Carolyn!! i am so sorry for your loss!! i so wish i could take some of your pain for you. :'( if you need an ear/eye in this case i am soooo here!! in other news, i sent you a much loved package!! i think you'll love it!! **onery grinn** so just wonder what in the world it could be!! Hee Hee!!
hmmm...buriel on a halloween!! in a ungrown ups mind....how cool!! WOW!!! i know, poor taste, many hugs to you (((HUGS)))
awww come on Granny!! i think you could make anything look nice!! ya know ya could!! :') ~Medo