Here I am adding more info from the literature review and my own experiments for those interested in this vegetable. Clusterbean also called Gavar/Guar/Guwar/Guvar bean (Cyamopsis tetragonoloba L. Taub.) is a self pollinated, multipurpose, drought resistant, and restorative annual leguminous vegetable crop. Green and tender pods of cluster bean are used as a popular vegetable in many parts of India and Africa and some part of the SE Asia. It is also grown as a forage crop as well as green manure. It has great It has soil-enriching properties since it is a legume used for reclamation of saline and alkaline soils. It is said to be extremely drought-tolerant and grows well in arid and semiarid regions with little moisture. Too much moisture will leads to more vegetative growth and less pods. I found that this crop not new to southern states, but has been cultivating more for gaur gum, has wide variety of food and non-food uses. Gaur gum is used in gluten free food! It is one of the best food thickening agent, almost eight times as powerful as cornstarch for thickening applications. It is quite easy to cultivate. I did couple of experiment on its performance by sowing seeds in early spring and early summer (never tried as fall cop), transplanting vs direct sowing, limited water vs regular water in the last three years but with limited no. of plants with uneven replications, so statistically saying my results are not scientifically sound. Here what I found- it does well if directly sown seeds in mid-summer, I usually sown here in Norman around first week of June. It is good succession crop after you harvest your spring crop. Even you won't like it as a vegetable but as a soil improvement or green manure crop. It also suppresses the summer weeds in the vacant beds. Cluster bean seedlings are too sensitive to transplant shock, plants will get stunted and reduce yield significantly. However if you follows Dawn's paper cup trick of planting entire cup then it will not have any impact. I tried that this year with direct sowing and cup transplanting. Both seem to be growing well, but with cup I started a week early, they have couple of extra leaves. This year, I am also thinking plant second batch in late July as it is kind of a short day crop, I observed that number of pods per cluster keep increasing and taste better when day length shortens. Expect bountiful harvest from August to until first frost. It is very frost tender crop, little frost will kill entire crop. So harvest all pod when there frost forecast. Green pods store pretty well in freezer. I not found any difference in taste with fresh and frozen. We are still eating last year's harvest. I will keep adding if come across any interesting info about this vegetable. -Chandra

1) Better search. The current search is not only limited, but buggy (it doesn't return all matching results, even if the posts are recent, for example). 2) Ability to search multiple areas at the same time without searching the entire forum (for example, just Home Decorating and Paint, or Bathrooms and Plumbing, or Building a Home and Remodeling, or Appliances and Laundry Room, etc.) 3) If you're on That Home Site, search should default to THS, not to GardenWeb (this should be a trivial fix). 4) Additional subject areas for topics that always get a lot of questions (Fences and Walls, Roofing, Contractor Disputes, etc.). 5) GW should host its own photos so they don't disappear later -- it's so frustrating to read a thread and not be able to see the photos that go with it, or to have to create yet another account to log into a separate photo site. 6) A simpler way to add a link to a post 7) The ability to add multiple links to a post 8) The ability to designate certain posters as favorites so you could easily see their recent posts (your favorites list should be private, though). 9) A dashboard where you could see your recent activity (threads that you've started, threads in which you've recently posted messages, your watched threads, postings by your favorites, your clippings, etc.) so that you don't have to use search or go to your profile to find this information each time you log in The ability to set up rules for alerts. For example, you could set a rule that sends you an alert whenever mythreedogs (one of the Home Decorating rock stars) posts a photo. No limit on saved clippings Very often, posts aren't very helpful because the reader doesn't know where the poster is located. (This is also true on THS, not just on GardenWeb.) To solve this problem, GW should require all members to provide their zip code, which members could keep hidden if they choose. No matter whether a member's zip code is hidden or visible, GW should ALWAYS display that member's hardiness zone on their profile and posts, as well as a GENERAL description of their location. Members should be able to control just how specific the geographical description is (Greater Boston, Massachusetts, or New England, for example). Ability to edit your own posts and to delete posts that no one has clipped Please recruit forum moderators who would have to the power to delete inappropriate posts and to edit other people's posts (for example, to correct misspelled words in the subject line that would prevent readers from finding that thread The ability to tag threads as helpful or inappropriate The ability to select a font. The ability to control how GW appears on mobile devices

* Posted by: karenm 7 ) on Wed, Nov 13, 02 at 12:52 Well, I'm posting again. I had the original post 4mts ago. Have managed a few more mistakes in this time. Being a new gardener, I am always looking for free plants so one friend (maybe she really doesn't like me) gave me, gooseneck loosestrife, wild violets, periwinkle, and several mints. (ALL of these are considered VERY INVASIVE!) I planted the gooseneck in with my roses to cover the Roses leggy bottoms. Next spring I will begin the process of elimination. Already pulled up all the mints. I like the violets so far, but they have not invaded anywhere I don?t want them to be. Also, went to a plant sale with same friend and bought several plants with Latin names and metric measurements. (I haven't gotten that far in my education.) Did not have a clue what most of them were, but they were at a good price. Anyway, I bought some aster. I knew what that was. Yea, right. It grew to be about 5-feet tall and 3-4 feet wide. I had planted it in the front of the bed. It looked like Godzilla stepping all over my other sweet and dainty plants. To make matters worse, I too tried to move this huge monstrosity in 100-degree heat. Needless to say it did not live. Would loved to have seen it in bloom. For that matter, I have quite a few plants I have never seen bloom because I move them so much. Gotta get that perfect placement ya know. I'm looking forward to spring to see what new adventures are awaiting me! * Posted by: wavesmom sf calif (My Page) on Wed, Nov 13, 02 at 14:53 I have been gardening for years, and composting for 3. My worst mistake was when I dug up the crabgrass, and wanting to be the perfect composter, threw the crabgrass in the compost. My pile doesn't get hot enough to kill seeds. Guess what I have EVERYWHERE in my yard. Note to self: if you don't want the plant everywhere in the yard, don't compost it. I had the same experience (same year) with tomatoes. I could have fed the masses with the number of tomato plants that came up. * Posted by: Nelz z5b/6 NW PA (My Page) on Wed, Nov 13, 02 at 22:57 I had the worst one until this afternoon. 1 - A few years back I started all my cukes and squash (summer and winter) and melons in peat pots inside to get a few week head start when they hit the ground. I had the following number of varieties; 2 cukes, 4 winter squash, 3 summer squash, 3 watermelon, 2 canteloupes. I had several plants of each type. More than I needed, but you know, always plant a few extra in case all do not germinate. Everything germ'd. After 10 days I sorted everything out, what I wanted, and what I'd toss. My mother in law plants everything, and even though her garden was in, she said she'd take the rejects. I gave the flat explaining it was a lot of cukes and a few squash and 1 watermelon. Wrong, as in wrong flat. I forget which was which. I had cukes out the ear, and mom was nice enough to share the harvest. 2-Use only clean straw! I think I got oat straw, with all the oats attached. At $1 a bale I got excited and loaded up the truck. I put my beds to sleep for the winter, planted my garlic, and mulched HEAVILY with the straw. Every bed is growing lots of green blades through the straw. So, here I am weeding in November. I'm limiting my work to the garlic beds, the rest will be a 'covercrop' that I'll hoe in next spring. At least they pull up easy. PS - This is an awesome thread, and I didn't see many mistakes, just learning experiences!! * Posted by: bdot z7 NC (My Page) on Wed, Feb 26, 03 at 13:25 1st, what is a "DH"? Every time I see that I think designated hitter and it confuses me. :) My first mistake was when I moved into my house 2 years ago. The back yard was small but was over grown with weeds and vines and stuff. I loved it cause it's a good animal habitat. The wild rose bush (it's the kind that's invasive that people hate but I've come to love) is about 10 ft wide, 15 ft long and about 7 ft tall. Anyways, I decided I would clear out some of the wild grape and also honeysuckle from the trees especially all the dogwoods. Well I'm happily pulling things out and since it's the winter (no leaves on vines) I didn't think until I started itching. Let's just say I used to get poison ivy by just being in the same town as it is in. It hit the blood stream and I had it for 3 straight months. Near the end I had a swollen shut eye and had to get medicine. Went to Immediate Care (since I don't have a doctor since that requires setting up an appointment 3 months in advance) and they gave me allergy medicine. Luckily mom works for a doctor and got me some good pills and I haven't had poison ivy since even though I work next to it when feeding the tigers. My other mistake was in a way related. I had read that jewelweed helps keep you from getting poison ivy. It did wonders back when I did get it and would rub it on the spot. Well anyone that knows about jewelweed knows it has the water-resistant leaves. Well I had made a flowerbed beside my house. I couldn't get much to grow last year in the severe drought. Well these 2 plants came up that looks just like jewelweed leaves. i was so happy that I continually watered them. They got up to 1ft.. then 5 ft... then 10 ft.. ok, somethings wrong. Either I have a very happy jewelweed plant or that's not what it is. I did some investigating on the web. I found out I had lambs quarter. HA HA HA! I hate killing plants so I didn't want to take it down but then I knew the thing would reseed one day and that would be a mess. Luckily after it was up to about 13-14ft, we had a heavy rain and wind. Knocked both plants sideways into the yard. Didn't kill them but they were in the way so I removed them. * Posted by: Storey z8b TX (My Page) on Wed, Feb 26, 03 at 17:58 One of my most recent was allowing my friend to walk through my pepper patch. He tried a few peppers and asked what they were after tasting. Before I could stop him, he tried a habanero... I never knew anyone could run to a hose that fast or drink that much water at one time :o) Fortunately, he survived, but now he asks about the plants BEFORE he tries them. Stephen * Posted by: Peach_Fuzz 4 (My Page) on Wed, Feb 26, 03 at 18:36 Bdot, DH is "Dear Husband" in our land of abbreviated computer lingo. (although I'm going to think "designated hitter" now!) * Posted by: valeriePA z6 PA (My Page) on Thu, Feb 27, 03 at 6:42 I repeat it every year-too many seedlings and plants and not enough prepared soil. The seedlings or plants end up dying waiting for me to dig up more of the lawn. I think I'll give lasagna gardening a try this year. * Posted by: MaryMarg Zone9/San Jose (My Page) on Thu, Feb 27, 03 at 15:27 We moved into our first home four years ago, and had a gorgeous bougainvillia draping over the tops of the french doors to our bedroom. New to gardening, my husband and I couldn't figure why it "died" several months after moving in. My husband, escaping with multiple minor cuts and several colorful expletives, managed to remove it. We found out several weeks later (after it had been taken away by the garbage man) that the beautiful climber was merely dormant. Such remorse! * Posted by: somara ) on Fri, Feb 28, 03 at 15:10 I'm now starting my second year gardening and I have a feeling that I'll be a beginner for another 5-10 years. Here are last year's mistakes: 1. Plant swaps are great and the people are friendly; however, people are NOT giving you plants out of generosity... they just don't want to go home with what they brought. I finally understood this during the fall swap when I couldn't get rid of the last of my plants without having to take something from someone else. So I went home with another truckload and needless to say, most of it didn't make it in the ground again. So I'm only attending one swap a year now. 2. I found a small patch of Bermuda grass in my yard last spring. I thought I'd get around to it later. Nope. Bermuda grass will take over your entire yard the moment you turn your back on it. This year I'm breaking out the flame thrower. 3. Find out what the dimensions of the full grown plant is before you put it in the ground. That cute little wild current tomato that wouldn't grow for two months, eventually hit a growing spurt and took over the entire bed (4'x6'). It was STILL producing tomatoes through December. 4. The biggest mistake, and probably the one I will continue to make every year for my entire life, is trying to do too much with my yard. This year I promised my sweetie that I'd only work on the area around the back patio... but I've already drawn out plans for under the trees, the front bed, and pretty much the entire property. But ya' know something? As long as I'm not repeating my mistakes year after year (with the exception of #4), then I must be learning... * Posted by: mindi1248 z9 FL (My Page) on Mon, Mar 3, 03 at 22:47 This one just happened to me today... I bought some veggie and herb seeds about a week ago (even though I've no idea where to put them) and I decided yesterday that I would get them started in some dixie cups. Labeled and stuck the dirt in the cups, and poked a hole in the bottom to drain, and planted the seeds. I left them outside... This morning it started pouring rain. Turns out that the little holes in the cups couldn't keep up with the flood and when I went outside all the cups were overflowing and soggy and the seeds were floating or on the ground..lol.. I replanted what I could and brought them on the porch..we'll see if they germinate! :) * Posted by: mindi1248 z9 FL (My Page) on Tue, Mar 4, 03 at 14:33 Mistake Number Two: Not using waterproof ink on those dixie cups! I replanted in some real seedling cups today, but now I have no idea what's what! Guess I'll have a surprise when they grow..if they do..lol :) * Posted by: ticksmom419 z7 NC (My Page) on Fri, Mar 7, 03 at 10:30 Somara, in response to your bermudagrass mistake, it only spreads all over your lawn if you don't want it to. I'm tired of fiddling with my sad fescue and WANT the bermudagrass to take over. How many years will it take, do you suppose? Murphy's Law strikes again. * Posted by: ernie50 z7ga (My Page) on Sun, Mar 9, 03 at 7:20 I've been gardening for some years, however still learning. Tried to grow Joe Pye last year from seed, but never came up so couldn't identify seedling. Finally saw a few tiny seedlings & nursed along for 3 months. Was poking around outside & saw same thing growing wild outside. It was a weed!Had somehow got in my seed flat! * Posted by: timtijones z5 Milwaukee WI (My Page) on Sun, Mar 9, 03 at 11:36 Last year was my first year gardening in my first house, so the mistakes were many and frequent. Some of the most important lessons I learned were ... 1. No matter how warm April may be, there's a reason people around here (Milwaukee, WI, zone 5) say don't plant until after Memorial Day. We managed to get some make-shift cold frames around plants both in the beds and not-yet-planted, but we still lost almost a third of the annuals and perennials during a May cold snap. 2. Try to have at least SOME idea where you're going to put that beautiful plant you just saw at the nursery. Lost a few plants that stayed in the pot way too long after purchasing because we didn't have beds ready. 3. EVERYTHING takes at least twice as long to do as you think it will -- digging beds, amending or replacing soil (we have lots of clay, so sometimes we just empty out a big area and refill with garden soil), fertilizing, weeding, pruning (actually, that takes 4 times as long!!). One of these days I'll try to leave time to actually sit out in the yard and ENJOY my gardens, but it didn't happen last year. Maybe if I schedule the time in my DayMinder... 4. Just because it's the north side of the house and shaded in April doesn't mean it's a shade garden. I planted a dozen astilbe and 6 goatsbeard (aruncus) in the front of the house, which is on the north side. The astilbe did OK, but the flowers dried up and turned brown in less than a week, and the poor goatsbeard probably didn't survive ... they grew less than an inch last year from the planting size. That bed gets FULL SUN from May to August! So I'm moving everything that survives the winter to the west side of the house under the shade of the neighbor's black walnut tree. 5. Which brings up the last one ... black walnuts' roots kill most plants planted anywhere near their canopy. Fortunately, astilbe is one of the plants that can survive the black walnut toxins, along with ferns and hostas. Guess what I'll be planting in the west side beds this year!! * Posted by: veilchen z5 S. Maine (My Page) on Sun, Mar 9, 03 at 11:56 One of many: When removing the pachysandra from the front of the house to put in a new shade garden, I discovered what was obviously a small shoot of a rose. My house was built in 1930, so I was excited to have found what may have been an old climbing rose that survived neglected all these years (in the shade!). Just think how hardy it must be! I carefully dug it out, getting all of the long tap root. I pampered it for a few days in a container, keeping it moist. Then I transplanted it around a metal obelisk trellis in a sunny spot in my garden. I gave it lots of compost and water. By the end of the summer, I trained it up the obelisk and it was thriving. I was very proud of my horticultural accomplishment of saving an antique rose and couldn't wait til next year so I could see the blooms. Well, it bloomed last summer. Very plain, single white small blossoms. Totally unexceptional. Japanese beetle magnet as well. What I had transplanted and nurtured was an old root stock of a wild rose. I yanked it out at the end of summer, and it had really anchored itself in. I hope I got it all. * Posted by: John_Blutarsky (My Page) on Sun, Mar 9, 03 at 14:44 Trying to drive 400 miles with a bunch of houseplants in the back of my car. They were exposed to too much sunlight and at the end of the journey their leaves had turned black! Fortunately, none of them died, just took a year to get back to their old selves! Next time, I'll keep them covered up better. * Posted by: clg1 z7 AR (My Page) on Sun, Mar 9, 03 at 20:46 Thanks so much for this thread. I truly thought I was the ONLY one who had ever cultivated, nurtured and sang to rogue blades of grass mistakenly thinking they were long-awaited flower seedlings. * Posted by: teka2rjleffel z10FL (My Page) on Tue, Mar 11, 03 at 15:27 I love this post. I'm not new to gardening. I have been doing it for over 20 years. But when we moved to Florida from New York I made a big boo boo. The house and lawn had been badly neglected. So my husband (who hasn't a gardening clue) and I started pulling up the weeds in the lawn. After we were well into the project our new neighbor came over and asked what we were doing pulling up all of the St. Augustine grass (which looks like a weed but is the only thing that will grow here.) * Posted by: somara z8 - Austin, TX (My Page) on Thu, Mar 13, 03 at 16:56 My Mom and I were talking about what we were going to plant this spring and that brought up the subject of caladium bulbs... this was a BIG mistake from last year so I thought I'd mention it: Do NOT plant the bulbs upside down. Less than half of my caladiums made it. Unfortunately since both ends looked so much alike - this is easy to do. Someone told me later that the easiest way to avoid the same mistake is to plant the bulbs sideways. That way the plant has a better chance of breaking ground before it runs out of steam. * Posted by: Pickwick z5 (My Page) on Thu, Mar 13, 03 at 18:14 The grounds superintendent of a large estate where I worked in the days of my youth, assigned me to plant grass seed in a freshly prepared area. He conveyed to me where I might locate this seed. Evidently, I seemed to have grabbed the wrong bag. It was thistle birdseed........... * Posted by: LesLazz z17CA (My Page) on Sun, Mar 16, 03 at 5:26 Great laughs on this page, literally laughing and holding my side on a couple of them! My story is a bit different but true. Not necessarily, MY stupidest mistake but alas it happened any way. We move in 3 years ago to this house with the previous owner promising that the garden right outside my family room wall (all windows) was a tea garden, that she had worked very hard on. It being February when we bought, she said I couldn't tell until the bulbs came up. So I waited and waited and WAITED... all we had the first year were big weeds. Convincing myself I may had neglected the bulbs, I went out the next January and cleaned all the weeds and religiously watered, once again waiting for the tea garden, which never arrived. I decided to make it a rose and bulb garden, dug all the soil up and proceeded to plant three rose bushes and several different kinds of bulbs in a teagarden type pattern. Well, my hubby came out in January of last year and had a packet of wildflower seeds and decided to spread them throughout my garden (while I was cursing him behind his back, mind you). Fast forward, lots of wildflowers, bulbs grew but no flowers-because the wildflowers took all of the sun/nitrogen/whatever out of the soil (roses seemed to be ok tho). I told him I am going out to take everything out except my bulbs and roses. He asked if I would leave the poppies. I told him I will try (but between you and I , I know what a poppy looks like as opposed to a weed/wildflower) and I guarantee my bulbs will bloom next year! * Posted by: Vroomp z7Ga (My Page) on Sun, Mar 16, 03 at 10:34 What I have learned from my Mistakes: Tradescantia (Spider Wort) blooms in afternoon sun, but the leaves will fry and make the plant look like it's dying. It blooms three times longer in afternoon shade. Foxgloves and Gladiolas need to be in a protected area from wind. Otherwise the become groundcover quickly. Never put an Amaryllis in a pot whose base is larger than the neck. They don't come out without breaking the pot. Inkberry Bushes do not grow on the North side of your home. I lost 6 seven gallon plants. Morning Glories produce a lot of seeds. And they ALL germinate............. For years to come !! Stonecrop Sedums spread like mad under cover of winter leaves. Which happens to be the best way to multiply your Blackeyed Susans too! A Wild Cherry is the wrong tree to leave for shading your patio. In Spring it drops flowers(too tiny to be pretty)then it drops little black fruit(which stains).The insects that thrive in them can dump around 1 pound of poop per night. (that's how much fell on the tarp over the food table last party). Glad I had the forethought to put it up !!! Then in the Fall the twigs and leaves seem to never end. * Posted by: ladykemma katy, texas (My Page) on Tue, Mar 18, 03 at 22:34 pulling up the foxglove seedlings because i thought they were weeds..... * Posted by: Lynn9 z9,Northern Ca. (My Page) on Thu, Mar 20, 03 at 23:25 HA! I think the "pet" poison oak is the funniest one. My mistake this year was building a nice frame for a raised box-bed, filling it in & then realizing it is in the wrong spot! My second mistake was buying all that "organic" compost/potting soil that was on sale & *then* reading the ingredients. It's organic with a "wetting agent" added. It carries a warning "as in all soil, gloves should be worn before handling this product". I don't dare use the stuff & lost the receipt. * Posted by: Adina Zone 7, Atl GA (My Page) on Fri, Mar 21, 03 at 15:55 This wasn't a big mistake, but only because I'm a biological fluke. Several years ago, back when I lived in an apartment that didn't even have enough light for houseplants, I "adopted" the vacant lot next to my father's house and started cleaning it up a bit and planting some excesses from his garden. One day he came out while I was pulling weeds, pointed to the plant in my bare hand, and asked if I realized it was poison ivy. I didn't. My hands turned pinkish and itched a little for an hour or so later. I had never learned to identify poison ivy because I've never reacted to it. Still don't. Ivy--regular English Ivy--makes me itch and break out in red blotches, however. Go figure. * Posted by: GaiaChild N.Alberta,Can. (My Page) on Sun, Mar 23, 03 at 2:16 I agree that this is a great thread! I can relate to some of these mistakes and I'll try to learn from the rest :o) I've had small veggie gardens and have experience with indoor plants but last year was my first real flower/ornamental gardening attempt. This year I've planned even more so I'm glad I can come here for some good tips. TIA *thanks in advance* * Posted by: Holedigger z10 SO-CAL (My Page) on Tue, Mar 25, 03 at 15:38 All time dumbest.....designed a complete backyard courtyard with stamped concrete patios, flagstone walks, rip-rap planting beds, lighting, stucco walls, the works. Had it all installed, planted it and realized I had no way of getting irrigation to the planters, or onto the groundcover between the flagstone. Duh.I learned all about native plants and xeriscaping after trying to handwater (twice a day) the first summer. Everything fried. * Posted by: jslatch z8 Austin, TX (My Page) on Wed, Mar 26, 03 at 17:52 Yeah, ok... as a new gardener with a new house, I should probably have researched tulips before putting a delicate 12 bulbs in my 10'x6' bed. Having lived in Washington DC, where every spring the city is covered in gorgeous, prolific tulips, I had assumed that they would bloom and bloom and be this beautiful carpet of red tulips in the middle of my yard. Little did I know that in DC, there are countless men paid by the city to run around in the pre-dawn hours transplanting fully grown tulips for the spring tourists. Needless to say, I got a week and a half of pretty blooms, and then nothing. Ugly green flowerless stalks. What is that about? Who knew that tulips only bloom once and don't multiply? I guess everyone but me. So then I tried to repair my sad-looking bed with eight expensive ranunculus transplants, which looked great for a week. Now they are fading fast, leaving me once again with tired stalks. Sigh. I have now optimistically sprinkled the entire thing with cosmos seeds. Too bad they won't be up in time for my mother's visit... I was so excited to show off my green thumb. I have a feeling I will have many more lessons coming to me... * Posted by: Dic_Tamnus z5b OH (My Page) on Thu, Mar 27, 03 at 10:12 I had a "Three Stooges" moment while walking out to the garden. The side door of my house had a metal awning (sharp edges) that hung exactly 6' above ground level. As I (height 6'1") walked toward it I was verrrry carefully trying to take a sip from a cup of scalding hot coffee. In mid-slurp my scalp met the metal, raking across my skull like a hoe raking across concrete. From pain and surprise, I gasped, inhaling the burning brew. It sounded something like "Scrrrapeaacghgarglekoffplttttt!" So I spent the next ten seconds staggering, bent at the waist, one hand on top of my head and the other wiping coffee that was still running from my nose. My only regret is that I didn't catch the whole thing on video. * Posted by: Tannatonk z3 MT (My Page) on Thu, Mar 27, 03 at 15:08 This is a great thread! I don't have a tale to tell on myself but would like to make a suggestion. Seems like a lot of you have in the past purchased too many plants at one time without having given thought to how or where you were going to put them. The next project on your "honey-do" list should be to build a nursery bed. It could be as big or small as you like but a nice size is 4' x 8' with 6-12" sidewalls. Fill the frame with loose compost and soil. Now you have a place to store all those wonderful finds that you just can't pass up until you know the perfect spot for it. * Posted by: carolynkelsea San Jose (My Page) on Fri, Mar 28, 03 at 12:33 Wow this thread has been around since last year and it keeps getting funnier! I already posted once (transplanting large shrubs in a heat wave) but in my second year of gardening I've made an even sillier mistake... When we moved in I discovered two unidentified bushes hidden beneath some overgrown daisy clumps... For whatever reason I decided they were azaleas and I've been babying them for a year, giving them acid fertilizer, doing everything I could to make them happy... Well just the other day they finally bloomed, and oops, they're not azaleas, they're hawthorn bushes, which is a very common, tough shrub around here, they use it in parking lots because you just can't kill it... After a year of babying these things I feel a little let down! (The pink flowers are pretty though!) *Posted by Cactus_joe 7b (My Page) on Sun, Dec 12, 04 at 1:50 Stupid things that I learned while gardening this year: 1. If you plant a canna tuber right at the bottom of the container, and place it upside down, the canes will emerge through the drainage holes. A real talking point in the garden (?Did I hear words like "stupid thing to do", "how silly", "what was he thinking of", ""senilility", etc being whispered?). Doesn't do much for esthetics either. 2. If you pull a long cane of a prickly rose down too far, and let go, it will neatly grab hold of you pants and tee-shirt, and give you a painful surprise. 3. If you get real mad at how much rocks you have to excavate out of your lousy subsoil before you can plant any thing, make sure your shovel is equipped with shock absorbers before you ram it hard into the ground in frustration. Otherwise, the shock wave generated when you hit that big rock (the one which is always lying waiting for you to do just such a stupid act) will give your bones a jangle that you will never forget. 4. If you go on vacation and have the neighbour tend your yard while you are away, don't forget to tell her not to dead head the roses if you are into hybridising. 5. Never even think of pulling the stun of stepping smartly on the head of the garden rack to get it's handle to flip up - unless you happened to be wearing a suit of armour. * Posted by: NGraham z6 KY (My Page) on Sun, Dec 12, 04 at 8:08 I can sympathize. I've experienced much the same things. Once when my husband had back surgery, I didn't ask, but my neighbor kindly mowed my yard for me. Took out a white lilac a friend had just given me, it did come back but sulked for a long time. Several times I coulda kicked myself when I nurture seedlings I have carefully grown & cared for, plant them out, then carelessly pull them out when weeding. * Posted by: FlowrPowr 5 OH (My Page) on Sun, Dec 12, 04 at 22:10 Joe, the one about the rake really made me chuckle. We were planting some end of season roses about a month ago, and I did that very same thing. It was not one of my more graceful moves. Let me tell you, a rake upside the head, can really hurt. I saw stars for a couple of seconds. Of course, my hubby thought it was funny. I guess one thing that I did that was kind of stupid was loose one of those little hand held garden cultivators. It was an older tool, and just kind of blended in with the soil. I sat it down, and when I went to pick it up, I couldn't find it. My hubby found it when we were doing the fall cleenup. I think I am going to paint the handle day-glo orange, so it doesn't get lost in the perennial jungle again! * Posted by: EGO45 6bCT (My Page) on Mon, Dec 13, 04 at 0:52

New England gardeners are not alone in being plagued by large, hungry creatures with antlers; but it's still a very serious problem in many areas. When the question was presented to the New England Gardening Forum, some Garden Web members responded with their own experiences, for example; ......................................................................................................................................................... From Suenh in New Hampshire: "Nothing stops a moose. Nothing! Deer can be kept out with an assortment of tricks. But you need to rotate the tricks or they figure it out. The only permanent solution is an electric fence." ......................................................................................................................................................... From Chelone in Maine: "To me, deer are little more than rats with long legs and pretty eyes. I realize this is not a "politically correct" opinion. Know this, though; we are overrun with deer because their natural predators have been largely eliminated AND we plant umpteen plants/shrubs that attract them. I would like to see more people grant access to hunters, bow hunters, in particular. I personally LOVE venison. Any hunter who brings down a deer on my land will be held in very high esteem if he gives me a piece of venison in return for hunting rights... Mmmm...! Fire up the grill!" ......................................................................................................................................................... also from Chelone, in a less hungry mood: "We share our home with two, very active field dogs. I believe their presence has kept the marauders at bay, several neighbors report extensive damage, but I've only noted nibbles on a Nikko Blue hydrangea on the "outskirts" of our yard, and that was a few years ago (tough winter for deer!). While I am no fan of dogs (prefer cats) I have to say they seem to get the job done. I "sicced" them on 4-6 deer a year ago that were browsing in the wooded area of our yard (pre-dawn, 4:30-ish). Worked like a charm!" ......................................................................................................................................................... From Sara_the_Brit in Connecticut: "I use several different things for different areas of the garden. My town is overrun with deer (SW CT) and have caused so much damage many people have given up gardening altogether. 1. My main gardening area is fenced off. I have a 5 foot high wire fence. Technically, deer can jump 8 feet, but they're lazy around here, and will simply go next door if it looks vaguely troublesome. 5 feet have been fine for 4 years. 2. Outside the 'zone', I use Bobbex spray at least twice a week in summer (more if there is lots of new growth). This is based on rotting eggs etc. Neighbors tend to use this, or Deer-Off which has a similar base. 3. I've used Irish Spring soap around some plantings, which works for a very short while. 4. In winter, like many neighbours, we have the shrubs professionally sprayed with repellent which is wax-based so it lasts all winter. It isn't cheap, but is less than replacing shrubs. 5. I grow hostas only in containers on my deck. Hostas are like chocolate to deer. 6. I use lightweight deer netting over my foundation plants. I have found that if hungry, they will push the netting into the plant and nibble whatever sticks out, so draping the netting around posts may be more effective. 7. Around here they don't seem to like andromeda/pieris, so many people are replacing their rhododendrons and other naked twigs around their houses with it. There are lots of other things, but as has been said, they each work for about 3 weeks, then you have to change them. We've even thrown small rocks at the deer, and they don't move. They just check the rock to see if it's edible." ......................................................................................................................................................... From cosmos in Massachusetts "I think my dog and cats keep many animals away from my yard and gardens. I have never had a problem with any animal although I have woods in back of me and a pond. I did see turkeys a few weeks ago and there are deer in the neighborhood but not in my yard." ...……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. A few years after this FAQ was written, cloud_9 started a thread on the New England Gardening Forum entitled Deer Deterrence Tips. Many Garden Web members responded with their experiences, as listed below. Posted by cloud_9 z6 CT Perhaps SOME are lucky enough to have an 8 foot fence all round their property. That is deer prevention. For the rest of us, some sort of deterrence is in order. Nothing is foolproof, but here are a few tips to help you fight the good fight. You can try planting those plants that have a reputation of being poisonous or unappealing to deer. There are many lists available, but deer will browse most plants at some point or other; especially hungry deer early in the season and those cantankerous ones that just want to thumb their noses at you (no mean task when you come equipped with hooves). And maybe you LIKE hostas and other deer candy. The sneaky deer in my neighborhood were quite capable of ignoring the daylily foliage and then nimbly snipping off the flowers. How many of us grow daylilies for their foliage? I have also had deer blithely eat rose bushes with thorns so long and numerous as to make Morticia Addams swoon. Obviously these are formidable enemy. Deer are creatures of habit. It is best if you start off early in the season convincing them that your neighbors offerings are much more appealing than yours. The first thing to do is provide some sort of smell/taste disincentive. Perhaps others will weigh in with recommendations for other brands of deer spray/deterrents, but I really liked Bobbex. (Newtown, CT company!) It is an all-natural product that doesn't wash off in the rain like some (most) of the others and has the added advantage of being a foliar feeder and anti-desiccant. You can buy it in premixed spray bottles, but save money over the long haul and get the concentrate. They also make a small critter spray called Bobbex-R That might be worth a try too. After that endorsement I feel a little goofy admitting that for the past couple of years I have been making my own deer spray (I need LOTS). I have had good results as long as I remember to spray consistently and after it rains. Here is the recipe: Homemade Deer Spray 
INGREDIENTS 1 gallon of water 
1 cup of milk (but I have seen recipes that call for 1/2 cup) 1 egg 1 Tsp vegetable oil 1 or 2 cloves of garlic 
1 Tsp dish soap I have a giant container of chili powder from Costco that is getting old that I am going to try adding to the mix this year. I will let you know how it works for me. In other words, feel free to get creative DIRECTIONS: Put the milk, egg, oil and garlic in a blender and really blend well pour through cheesecloth or a fine-screened strainer into a 1 gallon sprayer or a gallon milk jug and add the water. If you don't blend well or strain the mix you run the risk of egg blobs or garlic bits clogging your sprayer. Then you will have to chase the deer away with your #@%$&ing!!!. Add the dish soap (try to use an organic or at least an uncomplicated soap like the original ivory (do they still make that?) and SWIRL rather than shake to mix Mr. Bond. You don't want lots of suds. If you have a small sprayer or don't need the whole gallon use a milk jug to mix. Then you can stick the well-labeled remainder in the fridge for a week or two. (E Mom, this milk tastes BAD!) Try not to spray at high noon in full sun; cloudy days are ideal. Whichever way you go, I strongly urge you to get a 1 or 2 gallon pump sprayer. They are relatively inexpensive and will stop your cramped-up hands from looking like Fred Sanford's when he was trying to get out of work. (Ooops, aging myself!) I got my 1-gallon for $16. You can find them for less. You want to start off early in the season as soon as new growth starts and reapply as new growth appears. Continue throughout the season every few of weeks or so, especially after rain (or as directed on commercial spray). Some will need to spray and or wrap in the winter also. Perhaps someone else can weigh in on that front. The second method of deterrence, and in my view, the most important: to develop a reputation. Remember as a kid the yard you never wanted your ball to go into because the person who lived there was crazy? Yea, you want to be that person. The best way is by shouting and flailing your arms at the deer as they munch away on your Mother's Day present. You'll have to try hard to convince them because deer are by their nature's cynical creatures. At first they will stare at you like, "You are kidding, right?" Sometimes wearing imaginative costumes such as a bathrobe and slippers or carrying props such as your morning coffee that you must try very hard not to slosh as you run in the afore mentioned bedroom slippers is an effective strategy. Soon the deer will only look sideways at your property and warn away their friends. This reputation can also work to keep problem neighbors from getting in your face and you will certainly find far less balls in your flowerbeds (and have to pass out less Halloween candy). If you want to have a vegetable garden, you will probably want to fence it. Deer can leap like the dickens, so the recommendations that deer fence should be 8 feet tall is not exaggerated. Mine was 6 feet tall. You take your chances where you may. You could have taller posts and use a wire strung along the top to reduce the fencing cost. Lots of punji sticks in the form of tomato stakes could help. As long as you are making the effort to fence your garden, make it easy on yourself and deter the smaller critters at the same time by putting a smaller screened (think chipmunk) wire mesh at the bottom of your fence that is bent out along the ground in an "L" to prevent burrowing (think woodchucks and wascally wabbits). If you grow raccoon chow you will almost certainly need an electrical fence wire. I saw the strangest thing the other day. There was a single deer in my yard and I called the kids to see it before I started to "enhance my reputation". Just as they arrived at the window, a big crow swooped down and chased that deer away! I knew I liked crows! So, if you don't have your own trained attack crows for hire, good luck with those deer. On a final note: a aren't they cuuute??? :-P Deb Follow-Up Postings: RE: Deer Deterrence Tips Posted by tree_oracle z6b MA Garlic & chili powder sound like an Every Living Thing Deterrence. RE: Deer Deterrence Tips Posted by ctlady z5 CT I've had success by putting a few habanero peppers into the blender with water, then straining the resulting slop and using it with a pump sprayer. Only takes a few... I kept the strained liquid in a jar in the fridge though I don't know if I really needed to. Doubt too much mold would dare to grow in it. I was assured by a horticulturist that this would not deter (or harm) the bees and butterflies -- that they wouldn't mind the stuff (as long as they could have a frozen margarita too, I guess?) And indeed, it didn't seem to, but did stop the summer browsing the one summer we had some. Don't know if it will work against more serious invasions... And yes, unfortunately they ARE cute! Here are two fawns checking out my blackberries a year or two ago... (photo unavailable) RE: Deer Deterrence Tips Posted by greenbug zone 6_CT Thanks guys!! I have tried my hand at a similar recipe but ended up clogging the sprayer bottle. What kind of strainer do you use? My home made mix inadvertently has some settled solids and makes it really difficult. Once I tried using only soap and water but the foam still somehow made the sprayer bottle useless after a few squirts. I just bought a 2 gallon pump sprayer from Walmart for $ 8.82 or something with the intent of using for the Round up but on second thoughts, I will try to use it for the deer deterrent spray. Anna/greenbug RE: Deer Deterrence Tips Posted by mad_gallica Z5 Eastern NY A really 'standard' strainer is a paper coffee filter. I'm still trying to figure out how to convince the deer that my cats are dangerous. They have claws, and teeth, and are very good at killing small stuffed animals and marbles. RE: Deer Deterrence Tips Posted by cloud_9 z6 CT The strainer I use is my small hand-held wire mesh kitchen strainer. It seems to have a fine enough mesh to screen out anything that would clog my sprayer - mostly small garlic pieces that the highest setting on my blender hasn't liquified - not much. RE: Deer Deterrence Tips Posted by diggingthedirt CapeCod Z7? Wow, Deb, I hope you published or are planning to publish this somewhere besides the forum. It's a very good read; and it deserves wider circulation. Rusty Spade, maybe? RE: Deer Deterrence Tips Posted by claire z6b Coastal MA I can also add this thread to the How do I keep deer and moose from eating up my garden? FAQ. I've been watching the thread - I can't add it right now, but soon. That FAQ was also taken directly from a GW thread with credit to everyone who posted. Claire RE: Deer Deterrence Tips Posted by crabgrass_central 5-6 I tried all kinds of natural and chemical deterrents last year, and the deer (and my resident Bunny FooFoo) simply considered them all to be condiments. So I bought a "scarecrow" which is a motion-activated sprinkler to post near one of my beds. So this year we'll see who hates it more, the deer or the silly gardener who keeps forgetting and walking past it. RE: Deer Deterrence Tips Posted by annie_nh z4/5 NH I run a wire around the four stakes posted in each corner of my vegetable garden. .I cut up bars of soap(Ivory or English Spring) into about 4 cubes per bar, tie them up in old panty hose and then tie each bundle to the wire spaced about 4 feet apart. I have done this for the past 2 years and not once has any deer bothered my vegetable garden even though I see deer frequently in my field that surrounds the garden . RE: Deer Deterrence Tips Posted by dporcella z5MA two seasons ago, we tried the irish spring to great comic effect... in light,warm rain, a bear came along, picked up the soap and rolled around the garden. she used a young Kolkwitzia (beauty bush) as a giant back scratching loofah, too. the bush made a "beautiful" comeback, but not the irish spring;) last season, the bear developed a hankering for hollytone. made off with a giant bag. wonder what she'll be jonesing for this year? RE: Deer Deterrence Tips Posted by runktrun z7a MA Deb, Lol..great info as well as comic relief I agree with Nan we should post this on Rusty Spade. Ironically I just purchased a new bottle of Bobbex that regardless of competing odors from chemical products on the surrounding shelves the smell of Bobbex (still tightly bottled) caused me to gag. Does your recipe start to smell as foul as Bobbex after a day or two? I also have an abundance of pet hair, what are your thoughts about spreading the hair on the newly sprayed plants? I have tried the Bobbex-R in the past to deter rabbits and as I recall when comparing the two products (Bobbex and Bobbex-R)the main difference was the addition of caster oil in Bobbex-R. Thanks for the great recipe. RE: Deer Deterrence Tips Posted by cloud_9 z6 CT kt - The Bobbex smell disappears for the most part (to evolutionarily atrophied human noses) as soon as it dries, but I can tell you from personnel experience that you want to be standing upwind while spraying and just take your chances with the deer nibbling on your bare legs! The homemade spray never smalls. Mindy, if I am recalling correctly, posted a tip last year passed on by a hostaholic friend to place a clump of hair down in the crown of hostas (to remain unobtrusive). That tip was for human hair, but I bet pet hair would work also. Of course you asked about pet hair spread on newly sprayed plants. I would recommend just planting lamb's ear if you have a craving for fuzzy plants. Or petting your moss. RE: Deer Deterrence Tips Posted by diggingthedirt CapeCod Z7? dporcella - thanks for posting; thinking of a bear in the garden makes me feel MUCH better about my rabbit problems. Even one happily lolling with a bar of soap scares me enough to be grateful that all I have to worry about is losing my lettuce or some hosta to a (comparatively) cute little bunny. RE: Deer Deterrence Tips Posted by hostabuff z6 (ne MA) I just bought Bobbex today - however I'm a little skeptical about how effective it would be before the foliage leafs out. I have bragged one time too many about how I NEVER see deer because I live in much too heavily a populated area - well guess who came to visit with three friends last week - first wildlife I have seen in my yard in 10 years. I wanted to mark the perimeters with some type of deer deterrent before some tasty hosta become visible. Do you think they can smell them under the ground? When I visited the store, I planned to purchase some coyote urine to pour around the perimeter of my yard - shows how little I know...ha RE: Deer Deterrence Tips Posted by katie_gardener Deb ~ What a great post -- I agree with the others! You ought to continue writing, collect your posts and publish! :) ~ K RE: Deer Deterrence Tips Posted by cloud_9 z6 CT Thanks for all the encouragement! I was sick, so indulged in some ubercomputerzombieness. :D RE: Deer Deterrence Tips Posted by molie z6 CT I used to work at a large CT garden center & questions about deer vs. landscaping continued season after season after season. Sadly, there is no permanent solution because of man's encroachment into the deer's habitat. More developement (in woodlands/fields) mean more landscaping and.. hey!.. deer are not stupid. They love the stuff that people plant in their yards much more than the stuff they find in the forests. It's almost like the tastebuds of the deer population have evolved due to the variety of "buffets" homeowners offer them. Molie RE: Deer Deterrence Tips Posted by treeskate 6a Someone had posted in 'inexpensive place to buy deer repellent bushes/trees?' and a poster responded with the recommendation of using Milorganite.....raquet ball sized amount in old panty hoes, tie it to tree brances along perimeter. So I went to my local nursery and was told almost everyone buys this fertilizer specifically for deer repellent. How come I am just hearing about it now! So for $13 I got a bag and will give it a try. I'm sure I must have old knee highs or panty house stuffed in my dresser drawer, lol. But he also said, like all products, you do need to rotate repellents. You can spread it on the ground but obviously it will need replacing sooner. The deer did the worst damage this past year than any time in the last 12 years! Nips everywhere...boo hoo. But I plant only shrubs. The bunny explosion last year took out all my annuals in an enclosed garden section, so time to get chicken wire to augment my 2-1/2' fencing. Anyway, thought I would pass along the deer repellent item and if anyone has tried it, can you post your experience? ...……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Deer being a perennial problem in some New England gardens, the issue keeps coming up. In 2011, terrene mentioned a new idea in a thread sort of related to the problem. I've excerpted her comments and some of mine. RE: Birds and other mobile features in the garden 2011 #6 Posted by terrene 5b MA (My Page) on Sat, Oct 15, 11 at 8:00 So, I finally catch on camera, the culprits who have been eating the Swiss chard, Impatiens capensis, and Aster laevis. They also ate my morning glories down twice, but then I got smart and laid down 4 foot wire fencing flat on the ground along the back and sides of the trellis. This worked great! They don't like walking on it, and the Morning glories made something of a comeback. I think this is a Mama and her 3 youngsters. (photo posted on the thread) RE: Birds and other mobile features in the garden 2011 #6 Posted by claire z6b Coastal MA (My Page) on Sat, Oct 15, 11 at 10:33 That's an interesting idea, terrene, of laying the four foot wire fencing flat on the ground. I suppose it wouldn't work if the deer were desperate, but might just deter them in normal times. I wonder if it would help to lay the fencing down in combination with an upright fence. Maybe the deer wouldn't be willing to jump up over the fence if they had to take off while standing on the wire on the ground. Claire RE: Birds and other mobile features in the garden 2011 #6 Posted by terrene 5b MA (My Page) on Sat, Oct 15, 11 at 11:00 ………………… Claire, the previous owner of this house and I were having lunch and she mentioned that her brother-in-law uses cattle guard for their driveway. They have the entire yard fenced off, and cattle grid laid down across the driveway. Livestock won't walk across it. The deer really don't like walking on the fencing. Mine is old rusty fencing that is kinda uneven. It is very wobbly and unsteady, they can't get their footing. Even my cat doesn't like walking on it (and I have to watch not to trip over it!). ...……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. GENERAL INFORMATION There's a lot of information on the Internet, and a web search using the term "Deer damage prevention" will get you to a number of good sites. CATEGORIES OF PREVENTION Available methods mostly fall into the following categories: *Physical Barriers (such as fences, including electric fences and netting) *Scare tactics (noise, water sprays, gunshots, etc.) *Repellents (smelly soap, Bobbex, wax coatings, hair, urine) *Execution (shoot them, eat them, and/or hang the head on your wall) *Remove attractions (only grow plants they don't like)