What the nurseries don't tell you is that most (not all) Viburnums need cross polinators to give the most berries. Some V.'s seem to berry themselves without help, but I personally can't get enough V.'s in my yard so I can't use that as excuse too often. I will tell you that mine did not produce berries the first two years I had them. The link below (GardenWeb Shrubs Forum) has a comprehensive discussion about Viburnums. It enlightened me! One of the first things is to get the whole scientific name, since V.'s are quite varied and it can get confusing if you just use the common name or the variety name. You have two V. dilatatums (the Linden V.) and one V. dentatum (the Arrowwood V.), your Blue Muffin. Many V.'s bloom at different times and therefore won't have the pollen available when needed, so the trick is to buy the shrubs that have the same blooming time. I found some V. acerifolium (the Maple-leaf V.) growing wild in my woods and transplanted a couple near my V. dilatatum's, and a V. carlesii. All are showing the promise of lovely berries this year for the first time and it may be that the wild V. had a long bloom period at the same time the other V.'s needed the pollen. Or, it could just be that the V.'s I have are finally established enough to make berries. If you have two V. dilatatum Michael Dodge's grown from seedlings they will have a different genetic makeup and can cross pollinate whereas two grown vegatatively (from cuttings) from the same mother plant will be clones and therefore identical. You'd have better luck buying one each from two different nurseries who would share the name of the wholesalers to ensure they are not from the same mother plant. Your V. dentatum Blue Muffin does not need to be paired to make berries. I would recommend that you buy another V. dilatatum and plant it somewhere between the Michaeil Dodge and Cardinal Candy. Erie or Oneida would have different colored berries than yours - just to make things interesting. or, you could get another one of either of the V. dilatatum's you already have. Check out the Exchanges page or do a search to find someone to trade with. The V.'s are quite easy to propagate and grow amazingly fast. Nancy the nancedar Here is a link that might be useful: GardenWeb Shrubs Forum on Viburnum

awww, thanks mammie! He is a sweetie. He is 34 inches tall at the withers (shoulder) and is a 7 year old gelding. We are told he knows how to pull a cart, but we have not tried that yet! He is just a pet...we will also get a big horse soon to ride, but in the meantime he is satifying my "horse urge" without costing tons of $$$ in the feed department! My next door neighbor boards horses that stay out in their pasture all the time (they are retired) so he has companionship with them (it is kind of cruel to keep only one horse...they are herd animals and crave other horses company.) Oh, I wanted to add to this thread...that I am thinking of getting a 6' tall rolled bamboo fence to put up while whatever plants I decide are growing. Anyone have any experience with these fences? Also, will clematic grow in the shade? Someone on another forum suggested clematis for this shaded area. Thanks.

Bob, what do they taste like? Not only have I never heard of that fruit, but never had one in my life. Are they addictive? I think I am going to be sorry I asked that? lol I love these forums because I love to see the experiences of others and love to see how many grow in their knowledge..I have been here for years and as Laura says. made many great friends..Some I have visited, ate breakfast with, shared many types of plants, products and even had at my home for dinner...Many that have even helped me fix my home. Some have even sent me home made food. Some in who I have attended funerals..Laura is right, you do make lasting friendships.. Too, to see one grow from not knowing much at all about citrus, especially in pots, to see grow into pros, as I can name a few right here on this forum! It's a great feeling to see others benefit from the experience of others. Makes my heart rejoice to not only hear of their success, but to see their pics! I have many finds here, and I am not afraid to say that I care and love them all, many right here on this thread and some yet to stop by. I should also thank all those that know me well enough to ask where I have been that miss me around, and that post pics to make me smile. Evan posted a few the other day and I know Hobby, Brian, Laura, Josh, and many others always do. Mike

Most folks I know of already eat highly processed nutrition sparse foods. Meats, processed carbs, fat, sugar and salt to feed desire to eat it. A cultivated taste and allows multinational factory-machine-based businesses to use cheap, easily mass-produced and petroleum intensive ingredients that have long shelf lives, ship all over world. That food is affordable to the masses, not the hand-crafted stuff. I see that trend continuing, and fewer and fewer being able to live or even care that they are missing out on the local, foodie lifestyle. We are the exception, not the rule. The menus in the few restaurants in my hometown are ground meat, pizza, chicken, simple pastas, processed carbs, and a choice of onions, carrots, celery and lettuce for vegetables, with perhaps coleslaw and crunchy tomatoes and a dill pickle or two. Of course lots of products made out of commodity crop/genetically modified soybeans and corn, sugar beets and wheat is on it's way towards that. Things that can be grown with minimal human effort but lots of machines and chemicals. I see that trend continuing despite the backlash. Food will less and less resemble the natural ingredients it came from, and we won't care. Also continuation of profiteering on people feeling unwell as a result. And a continuation of people working to counter that, in the counter culture. But they will be rarer and rarer and confined to pockets of culture surrounded by a sea of monotony. Kind of like monasteries kept culture alive in the Middle Ages. One can only hope cool innovative ways to live sustainably will come out of these pockets. Two conflicting tides moving in opposite directions. Some of us will band together and try to keep the old ways and old knowledge alive. Just like they did in the Middle Ages and just like we do now. In my impoverished state, there are some hotbeds of local culture and hand crafted food trends, but out in the hinterlands where the lower middle class and working class mostly live, there is an impoverishment of the food shed. My county used to be riddled with orchards, for example. A viable way for small businesspeople to make a living. Families I grew up with. All gone. Shows no sign of returning. Instead, fruit growing increasingly concentrated to fewer and fewer large growers, and profitable plant breeds. Same apple varieties for sale all over the region. Even the few remaining orchards in my region are struggling. At some point in the near future, the small family food producing business will be almost totally eradicated. It's close to it now, and the ones that are hanging on are running on fumes. Folks will work in agriculture, just not own the food production business. We are trying to figure out how to move to one of the better foodsheds. Everyone I know in my hometown says, "I have to drive somewhere to do all my shopping." Ironic since my town is the county seat and was once thriving with farms. That's how I grew up learning to love eating local. Also ironically, sooner or later it will be more and more difficult to drive somewhere, due to the cost of fuel. That will bring about an interesting dynamic. It's already here in my home town. The food available locally is what the poor people can afford because that's what will sell. The higher end stuff will mostly sit on the shelf. Yes, some left to buy, but not enough to make a profit on vs. cost of having unsold stuff sit on shelves. Our local supermarket is paring down selection, slowly but surely. Slow enough not to panic most folks is the key. Frog in slowly raising temperature water, not immediate boil.