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Not meant to be pretty!

Posted by asleep_in_the_garden (My Page) on
Thu, May 16, 13 at 11:37

I wonder how many people use terraria exclusively for propagating cuttings,seeds,etc.

I have three sealed(sheets of glass over their tops)ten gallon fishtanks that serve just that purpose and although I know each could be a splendid mini garden on it's own,arrangement isn't so much about pleasing the eye as much as getting plants set up for a life outside of the tanks once they are ready...hardly a landscape in miniature!

Anyone else out there doing the same? :)


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Not meant to be pretty!

Hi

They certainly are handy for that purpose though generally I find that I have about as good luck outside the tanks , Depending on the plant of course !!lol gary


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RE: Not meant to be pretty!

Heh...Gary,..zone ten in FLORIDA?

...Brother you LIVE in a terrarium! LOL

I imagine just about everything I have could just be stuck in the backyard and left to root there!

Hey,..have you been to the Ringling museum? That's in Sarasota(as you likely know already),and I am guessing that you possibly have.


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Hi
I live on the opposite coast in Palm Beach county. i like to call zone 10 "almost" as it occasionally gets too cold too hot too dry, too wet just like every other place just not as often lol . The biggest drawback is very poor soil and of course plants that require cool /cold rest periods must be treated as annuals.
Have been to Ringling on several occasions though if one is interested in plants The Selby Bok , and Fairchild gardens are runaway more interesting. Specializing in Orchids,tropicals and palms ,bromeliads Mind boggling arrays of species lol.
i find terrariums useful for the same reasons everybody else does, complete control of the climate lol gary


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I'm sure there are all kinds of locations and gardens that I would have loved to have seen but as I recall it was like a million years ago when I was a kid visiting with an elderly family member...I just remember the banyans....and a Rubens painting I got to see up close(omg that makes SUCH a difference!). Sadly it seems every visit to florida was too brief to really get anything out of it at that age. But I do recall it being lush and filled with green everywhere. Guess I would have to say that my propagators would mostly be filled with aroids(nothing too rare unfortunately)which you would only have to accidentally drop in your yard and in complete neglect would be just fine(if I sound jealous....mmmmmmmaybe a little lol). I'm starting to think it may have bee you who posted a pic somewhere of a monstera or an epipremnum with immense leaves growing up a tree in a front yard...but i've been confused before. :)


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Hi
Yet another drawback to the florida climate. Those cute little houseplants turn into monsters and eat the house lol
gary


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Were it me...the house would be plated up without any hesitation whatsoever. lol


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Don't forget the 'joy' of the roaches, mosquitos, etc that are with you 365 days a year. heh

Back to the original Q, I do have a couple small tanks used for propagation, but my large tanks are geared for aesthetics.


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Sounds awesome Paul,and at the risk of being called out for not having a camera of my own,..you wouldn't be able to show off a little,hmm? :)

Oh and Gary,..I'm jealous of your roaches and mosquitoes.

They are great food for certain pets. :D


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Hi
Not really the roaches and mosquitoes are large enough to eat the pets lol I remember when my daughter visited many years ago she freaked out when seeing her first "florida roach" I assured her they were "Palmetto bugs" not roaches . During a recent visit to her house in Kansas she recalled the event."Don't care what you call it it was a ROACH!!! lol gary


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RE: Not meant to be pretty!

Those are the roaches I was thinking about,Gary! Tokay geckos simply relish them.

The squeamish are seldom appeased so easily as that but that's a great memory the two of you share. Those are great. :)

I understand that florida is overrun with accidentally introduced exotic pets that have bred unchecked for years which leads me to a question if I may.

are there any tokay geckos hanging out in your yard at night?


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Hi
don't know about Tokay but we have several geckos in the house . seeing them outdoors at night would be really tough. Also have several species of anoles,curly tails glass lizards ,iguanas and an occasional monitor .and a few others I can't identify lol Most obnoxious are cane toads they sing all night eat the natives and of course are poisonous lol
Interesting note on "invasives" Helped drain a neighborhood pond and we found 65 species of fish of which only 5 were native including 5 red bellied piranhas!!
The "Python" roundup resulted in only 14 captures and the largest was slightly over 15 feet. Several viable nests were found though, all were reticulated.. No non native poisonous at all. HOOORAY!! lol
gary
.


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RE: Not meant to be pretty!

Betcha cane toads eat water moccasins too. As to pythons,even though they are a menace to natives,I don't think I could bring myself to see him rounded up. If such a creature were to call my garden "home" it would be like having an exotic pet that cares for itself and all you had to worry about was the day when he studies you as a potential meal. lol

I remember a pet shop that had baby piranhas the size of nickles and they were letting them go at fifty cents a piece. The potential there kinda blew my mind. Be neat to have a whole school of em,wouldn't it?

Oh get this!...I found a little article you might get a kick out of...

Here is a link that might be useful: check it out


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Hi
The 'roundup' was sponsered by the state ,putting a reward on them which means it cost the state almost nothing and resulted in an accurate count. Ended the debate if the climate allows reproduction. and gave a few clues to how far they have spread. there is a now famous pic of one eating a highly endangered american crocodile which lead to this action. Seems like an intelligent method to me??
Piranhas are illegal here . Though there seems to be a lot of debate if they can actually reproduce here why risk it??
They have been repeatedly found in many areas and it seems hard to believe all were turned loose by hobbyists ?? lol
Don't know what species my house geckos are ,grow to about 8 inches dark tan color with multiple spots . Love the way they run accross the ceiling as fast as the floor
we have a couple of curly tailed lizards who have leaned to beg during dinner lol I,m guessing they learned this behavior at outdoor restaurants because it's certainly not the norm. They usually scurry away at the slightest movement lol gary


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I'm pretty convinced that what ya got there may well be tokays. There are youtube clips of the voice of the tokay and something tells me that if you heard it you may even recognize it from your own yard. I'll bet your place is a chorus at night! Geckos chatting in concert with various frogs and toads. Man that's bliss. :)

sorry if I seem fixated. lol

Saw some clips on curly tails and they are impressive little critters. Housepet material if ever I saw it.

Kept anoles before and let them run loose but they pretty much stayed in what was then the garden room and the perfect hang out if you happen to be an anole. If a housefly entered the room it would invariably end up in the window where guess what?...an anole would be laying in wait. Good times! lol


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Here's a look inside one of my ters. :)


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Ficus pumila in a snifter...


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Little cryptanthus division in pretty glass.

...I call it a division because it actually grew out from the center and not the base. Somehow calling that a pup seems wrong to me,I don't know why.


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Tankard


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Atop the tankard is the fishbowl.


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Hi
you are a very ambitious terrium keeper lol. My 150 is an absolute disaster . . So overgrown can't see the sides or bottom anymore . Have been trying to landscape the garden area for the first time so taking up ALL my time,money and thoughts lol have made progress in reducing the number of plants in pot to under 200 from a peak of 500. Hopefully when I'm done it will look like a garden rather than a garage sale lol Terrarium is around # 50 on priorities so it will remain a mess for along time to come lol. I do see progress though! reducing the numbers has been tough because I want to keep them all lol
gary!


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Hi again Gary!

OOOH a 150 gal sounds so nice! Choked as it is I'd LOVE to see a pic of it if you can manage that. A bit curious to see what you're up to with the garden area as well!

Thanks for the compliment! ...I'm ambitious alright!...constantly removing recently rooted plants and putting in any newly acquired cuttings I come across(which can become a burdensome compulsion especially considering that I'm not a land owner).
I am to assume that the other 300 or so went in the garden? Hope so! If they went in the dumpster it would be tragic! LOL


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Hi
The 150 is located in the shadehouse and not only overgrown on inside but outside also lol Due to growth can't get a pic of the whole thing. Mostly what remains in it are coleus philos and some common aroids . most of the more exotic stuff was moved to the heavy shade area
My landscape was completely destroyed by Jeanne Frances and Wilma so replanted with trees to support an integrated "Rainforest". They have grown enough to begin secondary planting The goal is a layered mid altitude rainforest divided into sections dictated by amount of light
with emphasis on epiphytes mostly orchids ferns and understory palms.
most of the plants were given sold or traded away but since the grow area is only 35x75 feet much more reduction .is necessary. Actually the climate is inappropriate for the plan but barring more hurricanes THINK i can get close lol. having a lot of fun anyway .
I sat down and wrote up a plan even decided upon a color scheme so far no "landscape" has emerged BUT you can see some order and have reduced maintenence by half MUCH MUCH more to go though
gary


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What kinds of trees are you using? Any ficus? I am SO imagining a banyan grove in the making...actually I likely meant to get around to that upthread when I mentioned the ringling museum. One of my lasting memories of that place are of the banyans out back. I bet a banyan grove stands up to hurricanes better that one might think and to have a home under one could prevent a lot of damage.
After Katrina I saw this one house in a neighborhood that was wiped out that had only lost a shingle. The tree out back was pushed to a fortyfive degree angle but it shielded the house completely. A guy I knew who rented it had his insurance agent laugh at him when asked if there would be any money coming his way.

Heck Larry,frankly I wouldn't care what you took pics of...terrariums from bad angles(wouldn't bother me a bit!),the deep shade area,the new landscape in progress...it ALL sounds so cool! :)


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Hi
Since my whole 'rainforest is only 25x75 feet not many banyons lol. The canopy trees will be Cassia roxburghii,
3 single queen palms , and two conjoined originally 5 but 3 died .. Groups of areca palms fireworks tree,a variagated dwarfed ficus benjamina , hybrid plumeria dwarfed and a Schzolobium amazonicum. maintained in palm form . All will be kept under 30 feet . These have been kept for 3 years are are working well. Have started a bit of epiphytes but limited to broms ,ferns and gesneriads
Installed a misting system but already having trouble with muddy paths lol here is a pic of a false bromeliad that i just got which will be the main plant in dappled shade area All these plants will be moved around unti upper canopy is planted was expecting maybe a foot tall but this is what they sent lol. Took years to find it lol gary


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That's incredible...simply incredible...Larry,..I had to look that plant up to believe what I was seeing ...and it helped...a little.
Sure everyone has a wandering jew in their collection but I can totally see that being a holy grail of sorts. Congrats on the fulfillment of the quest! You've got some eyecandy in that yard alright...that blooming xanthosoma is spectacular,..what a leaf! Like the effect of the coleus in the cinder blocks,pretty sure I've done that before too! lol

Stepping stones might be an option to get around the muddy areas or even a slightly raised deck walkway with a waterfeature half under it.

Cassia roxburghii was one that I had to look up as well and the flowers are pretty neat,talk about a bonus(this coming from a foliage kinda guy).

Lately since I procured a means of posting pics,I've been flooding many posts with pics and although surely some welcome this,others may think that I'm gumming things up...sometimes i'm not sure if I'm being too aggressive with it all...but the point I intend to make here is that you can do no such wrong. Too many pics would never be enough! There are crazy little details all over the place there and I can't even imagine what the rest must look like.
Thanks so much for sharing this,Gary!
I really do appreciate it! :)


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Hi
I'm not much of a photographer or electronics type person so let the wife take care of that If it wasn't for her I wouldn't even be on the internet lol
Right now im more into the destruction rather than construction so not much to photo anyway,. Happened to run accross that plant and couldn't resist . even the price was good BUT feel that it's misnamed lol Bought a palm with the same problem . Shopping is definitely the toughest part of plants??
This forum used to be very busy but like many others has really slowed . i post whereeven and whenever I feel like it . People don't have to read it??
The blocks are not meant to be planters but to keep squirrels from digging under the tree.lol . I use coleus a lot
as fillers so stuck a few there also
keep posting maybe you'll wake up the forums?? gary


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I assume the coleus makes it through the winter down there and reseeds itself to boot,huh? If so,does it even pout during the winter months?

Anoles keep popping up in conversations all around here lately and so naturally I broke down and picked one up at the pet store.

Peering through the glass at me...


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Hi
have never kept anoles on purpose or reptile for that matter Original purpose of the 150 was to keep dart frogs but got into birds lol feel I'm too old to keep up with the birds so have reduced the population to one parakeet who seems determined to outlive me
get a kick out of the anoles when I dig in the compost bin
they gather around the hole in a circle waiting for something delicious to pop up.lol They get remarkably tame . Many years ago I kept a Jacksons chameleon but traded that off for a marine aquarium.
Good luck with your anole should be a good choice for terraria?? gary


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I've always wanted to keep darts but never got around to it.

The jackson's may have been a heartbreaker had you kept it. A buddy of mine had a veiled that died on him after all the bending over backward he did trying to accommodate it's needs...he insists it's a bad road to go down as they are way too fragile for the average hobbyist to keep up with...so you may have dodged a bullet there(who knows?).
The aquarium still running(or is that the 150 we were talking about?)?

The set up I have really wasn't intended as a lizard enclosure originally ...and in time I intend to move it into something made of window screen so ventilation is better. For a dart frog it would be close to perfect,but even for an anole,..I'm pretty sure the humidity has to be a bit much after a while,right?


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This thread inspired me to try some propagation. I have tried to get cuttings from a few of my favorite woody shrubs to root in the past, and all they ever have done is wilt then die (quickly - within hours). I tried again in a "terrarium" (glass jar), and so far am at over 48 hours with no wilting! So, while it may be obvious to many of you experienced people that terrariums are great for propagation, I didn't realize this was my issue until reading this thread. THANKS!

serissa foetida and physocarpus coppertina "ninebark".

-daniel


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WTG Daniel!! Very cool, inspiring!


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Hi
Another method that I've had great luck with . Take the cutting and stick it through a piece of cork or styrofoam and float in a functioning aquarium. At least doubles the success rate gary


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RE: Not meant to be pretty!

That's a neat idea Gary!

Could totally see like a square piece of styro about say 3 foot by 3 foot that was say like 1/4 inch thick all chock full of holes with cuttings sticking through them,and floating it in a shady cove on a lake somewhere. Sounds like a winner to me Gary! :)

*Edited to say hi to Daniel

Hey Daniel!
welcome aboard! :)

The basic physics of it is that when the surrounding air is saturated,it's literally stuffed with water and the air can't take on any more so the water in the living tissue of your plant has nowhere to evaporate to and thus your cuttings will not dry out the way they can otherwise. Until they get some roots grown they need to keep every drop of water they can,but once they have 'em they can be weened from the terr with plastic bags that you open gradually over time like a twelve step program for humidity addiction. LOL

Oh and how's the cuttings going so far? keep us informed,okay? :)

This post was edited by asleep_in_the_garden on Fri, Sep 13, 13 at 21:19


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I think it's great too! DH's Mom's fish died so she put some cuttings in her aquarium that have been alive for about a year now, Tradescantia zebrina, Pothos (Epipremnum,) heart-learf Philo... That might be more interesting, lower the water, many more plants would fit.


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Hiya Purp!

If the system you're talking about includes a filter and a pump then isn't that something like a hydroponic system of one sort or another in the making?


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I guess so. Too bad styro doesn't come in green - or purple!


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Dunno why you're worried about something that will be difficult to see at all with enough cuttings in it. ...Say like coleus for example. :)


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Doh! Completely forgot the name of the thread here - oops! I totally agree about plants forced inside to hide from winter, and propagation attempts - whatever works (doesn't have to be pretty!) DH's Mom's thing is permanent, but will mention it to her...! My Coleus cuttings work well in bottles of water on the windowsills, which are too shallow for almost all of the pots I have so nothing else fits there anyway. No more small pots at all.)

I never answered the initial question of this discussion. If it wasn't so humid here, I would try terrarium for props. With winter being so short here, I can usually quell my urge for propagation until everybody goes back outside. Wish I knew this kinda stuff when I lived in OH tho!


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Doesn't HAVE to stay on topic,Purp but good catch...I'd actually forgotten. :)

I usually could care less where my threads wander off to.

Having done a bit of my southern lifetime on the coast,I know all too well about the brevity of the "icky" season,but you never know. Just don't forget that it's there if/when you need it...it's a lifesaver. :)


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So far everything in my little jar still looks exactly as it did in above picture. Not sure how to know when they've rooted, other than keeping an eye out for new growth or rolling the dice after a few weeks. I will update with pictures when the picture changes.

It's really humid here in the summer too, but attempts at cuttings of the two plants I currently have in the jar failed in open air - spectacularly and quickly - less than a day to wilt, and another day later crispy leaves. (multiple attempts). So I guess it depends on what you are trying to propagate. I've successfully propagated many other cuttings in open air. I generally use media rather than water, which may be a factor but I read that "water roots" don't always transition to media well.

Things I've had good success with without doming/tenting include tradescantia zebrina, tradescantia flumensis, lots of coleus (they droop, but then rehydrate on their own once roots show up), philodendron, and schefflera arboricola (separate thread on this soon, but I rooted the top of a scheff in open air that was about a foot tall and an inch in diameter - it never even drooped!).

I also have 2 scheff leaves that fell off at some point, which I stuck in dirt (in open air), and are both are still green after 2 months, though no new growth. Not sure if they have a node at the bottom or not, but I tugged in them recently and they feel like they have some roots. Will pull them out soon to see.

-daniel


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The leaf has rooted...I'd bet on it.

Only thing I know to tell you about this though is that when I had a similar experiment going,my scheff leaf was left to it's devices for over a year at least...and it was still a leaf. lol

Not to discourage you though,..I'd love to hear the news that your's actually did it,right?...more along the lines of fair warning not to get your hopes up too much. :)


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"So I guess it depends on what you are trying to propagate." Absolutely!

" I generally use media rather than water"
Me too, depends on the plant, cutting size, time of year, weather...

...but I read that "water roots" don't always transition to media well."
Yeah, "they" do say that but they never elaborate. There's a huge gray area from when a cutting is stuck in water to when it is moved to media, an indefinite time span. I think it's good to put a lot of cuttings in water for a short time first, depending on the plant, until one sees roots *start to develop,* not fill the bottle or even get to a measurable length. Once it's obvious the entity has gotten the message that roots should be formed, I see no reason to wait in water any longer. Other things would just rot, and should actually dry/callous for a few days before attempting to propagate.

A general rule is wilting. If you take cuttings that wilt immediately, they're going to have a hard time rooting in media (without the aid of some type of humidity augmentation, as mentioned.) For these plants, constant/consistent moisture, at least at the cut end, is necessary to stay alive long enough to form roots. But cuttings of something like Tradescantia zebrina, jade, or most of the succulents that do not wilt will not release their moisture quickly enough to need to be in water. For these plants, it is the search for moisture that inspires roots. Actual moisture may likely result in rot.

I can't speak experientially about propagating Scheff as I haven't done it many times, but it is known for growing slowly, which would apply to anything, like forming roots. For the others, I've done it countless times, 4 of my fav plants. Tradescantia zebrina is extremely succulent and unlikely to wilt for a few days, immediately forming aerial roots if not already present. T. fluminensis, more prone to wilting but will also 'heal' at the cut and send the aerials. Heart-leaf Philo cuttings take several days to wilt also, though enjoys a few days in water as a cutting if the 'money node' doesn't already have fresh aerial roots. All three will take root if simply dropped on the ground outside during summer (and can make contact with the soil.)

You've pegged the Coleus as a wilter, so why people often radically trim the leaves to prop in media. If put in water for a few days first until roots appear, a cutting can retain much more foliage, IME. I also think a lot of the problems people have prop'ing directly in media are due to insufficient size of buried part. Submerging 4" of stem is much more likely to produce success than 1". The last of the moisture tends to be at the bottom of the pot.

No doubt that humidity augmentation can make a huge difference for some plants in some situations. Sadly, though, plants that don't wilt are much more mysterious during the prop process. If they're dying, it's not usually apparent until they're just kinda gone one day, like the stem was firm yesterday, but the whole thing is on its' side today. BUT, often one can try again with those if there is enough firm stem left, whereas a crispy Coleus is surely a goner.

There are also a lot of other variables of concern unaccounted for in a blanket statement like that for it to have much meaning. Which leads us back to where I started this, depends on what it is. None of these generalizations mean anything if applied incorrectly.


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asleep,
Indeed the scheff leafs have rooted.

I put that one back for now, for no real reason other than I don't currently need the pot. So a year and no new growth? Ohwell.

This was the top of the plant those leaves fell off of, it rooted in a few weeks (no humidity dome/assistance) just stuck into some decent potting mix. Tons of new growth since then.

purp,
Thanks, really interesting. The most interesting thing to me about your post (think: water roots) is that it underscores how not only is granny's gospel garden wisdom not necessarily that wise, but many things stated authoritatively on this forum aren't always on the money - or are only relevant in specific contexts that weren't called out when fact was stated.

-daniel


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