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garyfla_gw

Animals

garyfla_gw
17 years ago

Hi

Since nobody seems to want to talk plants,let's talk animals.lol

My shadehouse/greenhouse is nearing completion and most of the plantings are in place and are settling in. Still some work on the roof and have decided to put off expansion until next winter but it will be ready for animals very soon. Have decided to allow the honeycreepers full flight

and may add a pair of blue dacnis.Would love to have hummers or sunbirds but can't have them lol.

The area is 12x25 with 10 foot ceiling and there will be a separate feeding,nesting area as necessary. Will house 90 percent of my tropical plants and will have temp and humidity controls. along with a pond and waterfall and my experimental orchid wall.

Any suggestions on reps or anphibs that would fit into this?? Obviously not something that eats birds or plants lol.Dart frogs would be nice but fear they'd get lost??

How about a panther Chameleon?? Is there a problem with the birds??

Okay I'm waiting for suggestions gary

Comments (13)

  • iliketerrariums
    17 years ago

    Hey garyfla, its not that people dont want to talk animals as much as people just are not visiting this site nearly as much as they used to, I think your being in florida you shouldnt have a problem with keeping reptiles or frogs, your area is closed in and heated during colder days and nights? correct? as for loosing them due to the size, I think that might happen but if you match the critters you keep with the environment you create, theres a good chance that they will breed and in time you might end up with a whole lot of little frogs and lizards! Which would be totally cool! =) I wouldnt do birds though, as you know they are a big hassle with feeding and clean up.

  • garyfla_gw
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    hi There
    Well ,the whole reason I reconditioned the shadehouse was for the birds lol Honecreepers and Dacnis are both nectavores and they do well in planted aviaries and they don't harm the plants. As a bonus they provide fertilizer for the epi's lol. With a daily shower for the plants which has to be done anyway,there's not much problem. unlike seedeaters.A big problem with them is the sugar water diet. ANTS come from miles around for the feast.lol I'm doing some serious thinking on the feeding station. They both also consume insects but not ants.
    Already have a BUNCH of frogs and lizards especially this year,I suppose, because of the drought.
    That's why I was thinking about the Chameleon. Large enough to not get lost and a carnivore so won't bother the plants. Have no idea if he would eat the birds lol The panther types get rather large and these are VERY tiny birds..Do you think he would eat the feral frogs and lizards??. i had always believed they were strict insectivores.
    Thanks for the suggestions
    gary

  • brendan_of_bonsai
    17 years ago

    Perhaps some sort of small but colorful gecko, I think dart frogs would be a great idea, but it would probably be more fruitful to get a few and breed them then release more into your greenhouse, and watch out whenever you set a pot down.

  • garyfla_gw
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Brendan
    I suspect the DF would go to the roof never to be seen again. Another problem is that at least part of the area will be allowed to cool during winter for the orchids at least into the low forties. What I'm doing is setting up temp zones as well as moisture levels. The birds will be confined to the warm zone as well as the more sensitive tropical fish. I'm using a tank as the main heat source.
    Rounding up the DF could be difficult
    I had thought of some geckoes maybe some of the larger day geckoes.?? Would think I'd have the same problem with them. Another thing that concerns me is the wild population
    of frogs and lizards that have moved in. Have several specie of Anoles as well as frogs.Removing them has proved impossible They seem to come and go no matter what i do lol. This naturally attracks snakes though I provide hide boxes and the largest I've ever found is 24 inch blacksnake.
    No problem for the birds but could interfere with nesting.
    Hoping to raise a few to help pay for this money pit lol.
    I'm thinking with a Chameleon he'd stay in the paradise tree and of course would be large enough to spot easily.
    I still need to finish the roof but plan on adding the honeycreepers by late July. Want to be sure the orchid wall is well established and I have no wash-out problems from
    heavy rain. Assuming we actually get some rain lol
    I obviously need to do a lot more research before adding anything,was just curious as to what others might suggest. Thanks for the input!!
    gary

  • alexis
    17 years ago

    I wouldn't put dart frogs in a greenhouse if you plan to add chameleons and geckos. Either they would get eat up by the chameleons and/or geckos or they might get accidently stepped on by anyone who walks in the greenhouse. Small geckos, a chameleon, and green tree frogs might be good in a greenhouse (don't get rid of the native ones - they eat bugs that attack plants) but you might want to sprinkle a snake repellent powder around the outside of the greenhouse to discourage snakes from getting in the greenhouse. I think most feed and seed stores carry snake repellent powder that can be sprinkled where snakes are not wanted. Also, you could put wire or fencing (or bricks) underground around the greenhouse to prevent snakes from coming from under the soil into your greenhouse. Also, a layer of gravel on the greenhouse floor would prevent snakes from digging underground into your greenhouse. The tiny bird idea sounds good if you provide nesting houses for them.

  • garyfla_gw
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Hi
    Alexis Thanks for the suggestions. I really don't know at this time if i will add any type animal except for the birds. Was just kicking around ideas.
    I'm trying to organize my plant collection into one area
    to take better care of them along with adding some rainforest type plants. Have added the 150 aquarium along with a waterfall to the north wall. This will give me grow areas from completely submerged to completely dry as I go up the wall Have never managed an aquarium in natural sunluight before but so far it's working very well.
    Have to keep the floor open as the plants require constant shifting as they grow.12x25 seemed so enormous when i first built it but has required completely removing everything over the years several time. I'm planning on moving the 25 foot wall out to give me around 25x25
    Birds do great in this type setup as long as you pick the right types. No parrots and most finches as they are very destructive. The nectavores are perfect as they are small.have a liquid diet and won't even harm the flowers.
    I kept birds in it for several years and the only serious problem was rats. Killed 14 birds in one night!!
    So all my birds went into the aviary.
    hHve been downsizing my birds for sometime due to the hurricanes and the prices are going out of this world.lol
    I'm sure it will be well over a year before adding any type animal to the setup except Honeycreepers. i want to try to breed them and the clock is ticking. They're 5 years old now and may be already too late
    thanks for the suggestions gary

  • paul_
    17 years ago

    Skip the dart frogs. I wouldn't worry about a chamelon eating them, but you mentioned native frogs pretty much being unavoidable residents. They WILL very likely eat any dart frogs around. Frogs pretty much will eat any moving thing that will fit in their mouths.[Bullfrogs are among the absolute worst! If you happen to have one as a pet please do NOT release it into the wild.]

    I wouldn't stress about the snakes. Black snakes are rodent eaters as are rat snakes -- quite common in your area as I recall.

    Do you get hummers in your area, Gary? They definitely would not be good additions to your greenhouse. They are extremely territorial and their food demands are high. [Nectar is actually only part of their diet -- they eat lots of bugs too.]

  • garyfla_gw
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Hi
    The greenhouse will be divided into at least 5 climate zones.mainly for the orchids many of which require cool dry reat periods. The main area would be a min of 60 with year around water and high humidity. The outer edges will be allowed to cool to whatever mother nature dishes out except for frost. Obviously DF would have to confined for several reasons but would mostly fear I'd never see them again lol.
    Of the "wild" population I do get an occasional Marine toad but they are of course confined to the ground The others are true tree frogs ,geckoes .anoles,and the occasional small blacksnake. Have no idea as to species of these animals but all are small and harmless. besides it would be impossible to keep them out lol.
    I stress over snakes as one of their favorite foods is small birds lol The Honeycreepers need lots of room to cause them to nest so will need the entire area.
    Like Hummers they are nectavores but during nesting they become insectivores as do most Hummers and Sunbirds. They are terrible cage birds but fantastic aviary birds True they are territorial but only the top third of the enclousure is contested.
    I do get hummers in my yard during winter .Mostly Ruby throat with the occasional Cuban. There are around 800 species of Hummers mostly confined to the Neo tropics. What i would like are lowland non-migratory types naturally.
    All N. American species fall under migratory song bird act so it's illegal to own them. In fact it's illegal to own any N.American specie of bird. Around 3 years ago the entire family was put under CITES regs and there are no countries which are allowed to export. So I would say Hummers are out of the question.lol It is still possible to get Honeycreepers ,Antpeckers ,Orioles,and Tanagers.
    These are beautiful birds not nearly as glorious as Hummers.lol
    gary

  • alexis
    17 years ago

    I let a leopard frog hang out in my screenroom once. None of the websites mentioned them eating other frogs. It ate both of my green treefrogs that lived in the screenroom (I found the backlegs of the last one in the frog's mouth and couldn't save it and figured that same fate happened to the other one that seemed to have disappeard). It got moved out of the screenroom right after that. So even if the occasional Marine toad only hangs out on the ground, tree frogs also sometimes jump and hang out on the ground which could put them in danger from the marine toad. Also, black snakes do eat rats but also will eat frogs (right after one moved into my backyard, the one green tree frog mysteriously disappeared). My green tree frogs seem to be staying on the small side so not all green tree frogs get big enough to eat dart frogs (they actually are the same size). I think the green tree frog that they are talking about is the cuban tree frog. That gets on the big side and will eat other frogs. The other ones (the regular ones) in my screenroom had a smaller tiny frog in there with them and they left it alone. So the regular ones are not cannibals when it comes to other frogs, only the cuban ones.

  • garyfla_gw
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Alexis
    Have never really paid attention to the Amphibians or reptiles except that they are so common lol I have 3 ponds so never lack for amps and the treefrogs love the shadehouse especially during the drought.
    Is there a site available on them?? Since installing the drip wall I'm finding very small frogs ,dark brown not a quarter inch long. These must be froglets?? I at first thought they were insects as they're so small.
    have any idea what they are?? i thought all amps went through a tadpole stage??
    gary
    gary

  • buyorsell888
    17 years ago

    Marine/Cane Toads and Cuban Treefrogs are not native to Florida and are in fact eating native frogs to extinction. They really should be euthanized if found in your ponds or gardens.

    Yes, all anphibs do go through a tadpole stage and treefrogs are really tiny when they morph.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Florida Frogs

  • buyorsell888
    17 years ago

    more information

    Here is a link that might be useful: florida frog faq

  • garyfla_gw
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Hi
    .Unfortuneately if I were to try euthanizing all the Marine toads I would be doing nothing else lol. They are everywhere. Building the pools above ground did not help at all they still get in them and reproduce at an unbelieveable rate.
    Of course the shadehouse is a perfect place for lots of different critters lol You'd think that with all the hungry mouths there would be no bugs at all but still seem to be plenty left. Since Wilma damaged the screen I gets lots of visitors.
    Just yesterday found a glass snake and curly tailed skink. Have never seen iguanas but understand they are getting quite common.
    Thanks very much for the info, will check it out.
    gary

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