What kind was your original?

The original pump was sold to me by wetworks misting systems. Its basically and tiny metal box that pumps pressurized water, and it's the same type of pump used in the systems sold by lllreptile, big apple herp, and ecologic technologies.

Well, I called pro-products, the makers of the pro mist pump. And, amazingly, someone actually picked up the phone! They were incredibly informative, and I learned many things.

The first thing I learned was that my original pump (the pump sold by most stores) is not at all designed to be part of a misting system. They're actually made for vacume cleaners!! And, these misting system companies buy the things for 10 bucks a pop, mark them up to 90 bucks each, and them sell them to clueless customers like me. By the way, they're a HUGE fire hazzard.

I also learned that the plastic misting nozzels sold by wetworks and other companies are actually what your local grocery store uses to mist its broccoli. Once again, they were never meant for terrariums. These misting companies buy them for a buck each and sell them to us for 8 bucks each. Moreover, when the nozzles heat up in the vivarium, their shape becomes distorted, which causes leaks and a massive increase in water flow.

So, needless to say, I will NEVER buy one of those cheapo misting systems again. The pro-mist pump is actually made for continuous misting systems. It can run dry indefinatly. It can handle about 100 misting nozzels. And, it's compatible with my current setup. And, the pro-mist nozzels are made from metal, so they don't warp. So, for now, I'm planning to buy one of those.

First of all let me say that I respect Bob Pound (owner of Pro-Products) and I know that he makes a quality product. However, I have to take issue with several of the points you're relating as regards cheaper misting systems.

>>The first thing I learned was that my original pump (the pump sold by most stores) is not at all designed to be part of a misting system. They're actually made for vacume cleaners!!

I have pump very similar to the type used by Wetworks, although I did some research and bought mine directly from a supplier so I didn't pay the Wetworks mark-up. These pumps ARE NOT INTENDED TO BE RUN DRY. The fact that the pump burned up is your fault, not that the pump is low quality or a piece of junk. I have been using my original pump for about two years without difficulty running anywhere from 6 to 10 nozzels. My misting pump has even run dry a couple times and it suffered no serious damage, although the piston inside is a little worse for the wear and so now it's a little on the loud side. Also, these pumps even though made for intermittent duty (not necessarily always carpet cleaners), are just fine when used properly. The key to using a spotter pump is to have a misting cycle that only runs for a few minutes at the most, say 5 minutes tops - which probably way more than enough for most enclosures. I have huge enclosures for the animals I have hooked up to the misting system and 5 minutes is just right. Smaller enclosures would be water-logged. So, spotter pumps work just fine when hooked up to a digital timer and programmed for misting cycles of short duration. Also, you have to pay attention to the resevoir and make sure it stays topped up.

>>By the way, they're a HUGE fire hazzard.

A spotter pump is no more a fire hazard than an improperly used heat mat or basking lamp. It all comes back to knowing the limitations of the product and using it properly.

>>I also learned that the plastic misting nozzels sold by wetworks and other companies are actually what your local grocery store uses to mist its broccoli.

There is nothing wrong here. In fact plastic nozzels are more resistant to mineralizing than metallic nozzels, that's why grocery stores typically use plastic nozzels for produce spraying - they hold up to the abuse of tap water better than metallic nozzels.

>>Once again, they were never meant for terrariums. These misting companies buy them for a buck each and sell them to us for 8 bucks each. Moreover, when the nozzles heat up in the vivarium, their shape becomes distorted, which causes leaks and a massive increase in water flow.

I work at a zoo and we've been using plastic misting nozzels on exhibit cages for over 10 years without any problems. Incidentally these nozzels are right at the top of the cage located very close to halogen can lights housing mogul-base commerical grade high wattage bulbs that put out considerable heat. I could see nozzels deforming if they were heated to a few hundred degrees, but certainly not at NORMAL vivarium temperatures.

>>It can run dry indefinatly. It can handle about 100 misting nozzels.

The diaphragm pumps that Pro-Products uses are exactly the same pump as you would get buying the more expensive misting system sold by WetWorks. Also, a diaphragm pump can run dry much longer than a piston pump but certainly not indefinetely. Over a lengthy period of time the pump will overheat just as your solenoid piston pump did and it too will become a fire hazard.

Finally, don't take this as an attack - I'm simply pointing out that your experience is not typical and that a misting system can be made cheaply and effectively if used properly.

Wow Matt I hope they're paying you for that endorsement! Honestlly, though, the entire incident WAS my fault since I let the reservoir run dry.

I was just venting my frustration about the fact that it IS DEFINATELY a cheap pump that was NEVER designed with terrarium misting in mind. I'm sure the pump is of good quality and works wonderfully in a steam cleaner, but it is NOT a good quality pump for the vivarium. Sure, it works just fine, but you have to agree that it is quite volatile. And yes, I know how to use it with regard to a vivarium (5 min max, keeping the reserviour full, ect.)

I can't back up what I said about the misting nozzels. I was quoting Bob on that point. By the way, where do you buy your nozzels from?

So, in conclusion, I would say that the spotter pump does work fine as a misting pump, but it's too volitile for my liking. I'm definately going to buy a diaphragm pump!

Have you looked into a mist king system? I'm going to order one soon and I've only heard good things, although on their site Nozzles can get a little pricey.

I would not buy the mist king system. Their nozzels look awesume BUT their "package deals" all come with the cheap pump that overheats easily.

Okay, for starters (and this is directed to Cdfortin) - the pump that you continue to malign is NOT a junk pump. Carpet cleaners is only ONE of the many applications where those pumps are used. Simple piston pumps are used in a wide variety of industrial applications to pump many types of fluids including water. Just because they're used in other pieces of equipment doesn't mean they are no good for vivarium misting systems. The diaphragm pump that Pro-Mist sells that you're so enamored of - I can buy the exact same pump from a CARPET CLEANER SUPPLIER for HALF what Pro-Products charges for it. The pump he includes with his system was no more designed for vivaria than the cheaper pump. They are simply fluid pumps that can be used for a wide variety of applications. Also, running a system dry will ruin any pump. I guarantee you that the diaphragm pump will overheat if you run it dry too. As far as endorsing Mist King or WetWorks or Pro-Mist - you'll not see me endorsing anyone. I think all of their systems are overpriced and because I'm a DIYer I like to put together my own systems from individual components at a fraction of the cost. The main thing to take away from this discussion is that about 99 percent of all herp/vivarium-related products were NEVER made specifically with herpetoculture in mind. Instead these products were adapted from some other usage and as such they should be used properly in order to avoid problems - this includes not letting your misting system run dry and turn into a fire hazard. Finally, I kinda like the nozzles that Mist King sells but for most vivaria they're overly complicated and WAY over priced. Some applications it might be nice to be able to more accurately aim the mist cone but for the most part it's not needed in basic vivarium design. Now that being said, I'm sure all I would have to do is to look around on the net for a little while and I could come up with the adjustable elbows/fittings at probably half the cost. My advice would be if you want to save some money, look into making your own system from individual components - a couple good places to start would be www.barrs.com for inexpensive nozzle assemblies and www.kesmist.com for buying nozzles in bulk quantities (you can also get different flow rates as well).

I do see what you're saying Matt. I just prefer products that allow for a little more Murphy's Law. In this case, if my reservoir dries out or a timer malfunctions or something else happens to drain the water supply, I want the pump to be able to run for a while without it breaking. Thats the real reason why I want a diaphragm pump. I'm not saying that the diaphragm pump won't overheat! I'm just sayiing that it won't implode by the time I'm home from work (correct me if I'm wrong--Bob said the the diaphragm pump would overheat but only after a few days of running) I'm sure the wetworks pump works great...but not for me.

BTW I wasn't trying to bash you or anythig. I was joking about the endorsement thing.

Thanks for the links! Do you have any links for where I could buy a diaphragm pump? I'm a do-it-yourselfer too. A few months back I looked for days for pressure pumps but I couldn't find any.

I think Bob is wrong. I think a diaphragm pump will burn up in no time flat if left without fluid running through it. I don't know of any pump that could run dry continuously for as long of a time as a few days before burning up. By the very nature of the pump and it's moving internal parts it would probably begin to seriously overheat within the first hour or so. Try www.interlinksupply.com for pumps of different types. Once you determine what type of pump you want check that manufacturer's website for specifications as regards run-dry times.

Guys you should have read my post and see the hell I went through with misting systems now I'm being sued

anyway pro-mist is the best my pump has run dry for days at a time and it still works to this day and bob pound was so helpfull when I called him up he spent over an hour with me on the phone

How do these companies sell these products that are so faulty They might as well sell you an egg to play football with come on plese "don't let the pump run dry"
we are only human and how so they expect us to fill the bucket all the time sometimes we are not home when the water runs out I mean you have to come up with a formula and a schedule just to know when to fill your bucket up with water

with pro-mist I dont have that problem
I have better things to do than to watch my water level go down and fill it up
these pumps cannot run dry for more than seconds before they burn out they can also start a FIRE

this is a hobby it should be fun not oh my God I forgot to fill up my bucket now my house might burn down
I mean who wants that responceabillity I sure dont

Here is a link that might be useful: my post

>>come on plese "don't let the pump run dry"
we are only human and how so they expect us to fill the bucket all the time sometimes we are not home when the water runs out I mean you have to come up with a formula and a schedule just to know when to fill your bucket up with water

How do they expect you to fill up the bucket all the time? Maybe they should come to you house and do it for you? How about taking some responsibility for your own actions? I'm done with this thread. Everyone that has posted something on this thread has had nothing to say that didn't blame someone else for their own stupidity. As for having a pump that runs dry for days without any problems. Sorry, but I have to believe that's complete bull. I just spent 2 hours on the phone today talking with tech people at Shurflo (one of the biggest pump manufactures in the WORLD) as well as a company whose primary business is the manufacture and configuration of misting systems for industry and agriculture. You want to know what they said? No diaphragm pump should be allowed to run dry for more than 4 hours - longer especially days longer WILL ruin all of the internal parts of the pump. What's more, the fact that you claim to have run your pump dry for days at a time tells me you're not the most responsible person. Trusting your pump to not overheat and become a fire hazard because you apparently choose to use it incorrectly tells me it's only a matter of time before you burn your house down.

It seems to me that all I'm hearing is a bunch of people who don't want to take responsibility for their own actions in regards to not following directions and using a product improperly. I'm done with this thread.

THANK GOD your done with this thread all you do is fight us and have negative coments about everything you act like someone who works for those misting companies

the thing is dont sell products that can break so easy when they are much better ones out there sureflo and flojet pumps are great they can take a beaten
I have a timmer on my pump It dosent run dry consistantly so thats how it still works think outside the box buddy and stop trying to put up a fight with all of us who had problems with some of these misting companies

I have a great deal of rersponsabilities I own my own company and work about 80 hours an week so dont tell me that I need to take care of my own actions It seems like you live in a fantacy world
we are just expressing the way we feel and our experiences
and you cannot agree with anything we said what are you a corprate lawyer or something

THANK YOU ANGELO S!!! I totally agree with you! This Matt guy is such a tight a** I have no clue how he gets along with anyone!

When I originally made the post I was expecting some sympathy and a some advice on purchasing a pro-mist pump. Instead I got a load of BS from this Matt guy who acts like he knows everything about anything. And YES, MATT, I know it WAS my fault that the pump burned out, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a piece of crap. No one should buy that type of pump if they have a life. Matt, I understand you work at a zoo, so you probably just hang around with your monkey pals all day catering to these crappy pumps. We have lives!! On the event that the water reservoir runs out we don't want to risk our houses burning down.

BTW I looked at your "DIY" websites and their pumps really aren't any cheaper than the pro-mist pump. Plus it looks like a hassle to order from that place. Even if the pro-mist pump is a little more expensive I am willing to pay since Bob Proud is such a great seller. I am ordering a pro-mist pump!

So am I! Especially after reading all this, and then talking to Pro-mist (I guess it was Bob). It's way more than I originally intended to pay for one, but after checking everything else on the planet (practically!) and getting ripped off by someone on eBay, I think I made the right decision, and can't wait for it to get here.

I called Bob a few days ago and they were sold out! Bob said he has been having record sales, selling 600 units in less than three weeks. Now, I'm on a two week waiting list to get mine.

And by the way, Bob definately manufactures his own pumps at his warehouse. They're not just imports from a steam cleaner company. They are made specifically for misting systems.

Anyway, I bought a pressurided mist canister from Home Depot, and I've been using it to manually mist the vivarium. I hope Bob's pump comes soon!

Well, the pump came a week ago and it is FANTASTIC. Absolutly silent, doesn't heat up when it runs. I am so impressed!

How do you clean the nozzles when they start spraying a stream instead of a fine mist. Mine is screwed on the top of a screen cage, removal is possible but inconvenient.

I do have a Wetwork pro pump system, I am on the second pump, mine ran dry for a day for 15 seconds at a time for about 15 times durring the day. I was gone so that aprox.. Exspensive lesson. I love the system, I use it in a Chamleon cage, I reley on it keeping my pet hydrated.

You could try holding the nozzle in white vinegar for a few minutes to see if it will dissolve the mineral deposits that are causing the clog.

Hi all, I think your all blowing this thing out of proportion, this matt guy and everyone else, I found good sound advise from ALL OF YOU, (yes...including matt!LOL!) this site is great! It takes some time to get a response, but still great =) remember one thing, the only person that can make you angry, (or feel any other kind of way) is YOU! I can say your all slackers, does that mean that you are? no, because in most cases you know its not true, so why upset yourself!? (I am, in all honesty, KING SLACKER!LOL!) so anyways, I hope you all understand what it is Im trying to say and remember, the only one that can make you feel any kinda way is you, your in control of your feelings, no one else. =)

Iliketerrariums, I have to call you out on this. Your husband is a preacher!! You've just been listenting to too many sermons (lol). Honestly though, I have nothing against Matt. I think he's a zoologist of some sorts, so of course he adds valuable info to this groups. It just pisses me off when someone acts like a "know-it-all."

Anyway, how are your tomatoe frogs doing? It would be nice if you could post a picture in the photo gallery on this site.

Danny

cdfortin, I dont have tomato frogs? just plain old whites tree frogs, I havnt had much luck with frogs so Im waiting to "master" that part of the hobby, once I get it right I will try red eyes, as for the preacher thing, not I, my dad just filled me full of good advise as I was growing up, and by the way......Im a man dude! LOL! If I have a husband Im going to be surprised big time as Ive been married to her for 25 years now! LOL! Ill post a couple of pics of my terrarium anyways!LOL! Thats to funny!LOL!

HAHAHA-YOU CRACK ME UP. God I must have been laughing for 2 minutes. I got you confused with a woman who uses this site under the name of "back2eight." An innocent mistake...I'll take a look at the photo gallery.
25 years, huh?

Once again my lack of computer know how has come up behind me and taken a bite, can you kindly direct me to the photo gallery!? and no =( I was wrong on the years married thing (my wife was happy to point out my mistake!) 23 years and going strong! =) our kids are 21 and 17! but, as I am a young 40 and my wife (with permision!) an even younger 44, I think were doing great! Yes, we started early! but you know what that means!? we get to finish early too! (YAHOO! play time!)

Never mind.....I found it right at the top of the page ....DUH! I put up a couple of pics of my newest tank, please help! as you can see I need some! I would like the upper half of the tank to be more heavily planted, I just dont know what type of plant to use, the upper half of the tank sometimes reaches 100F! even though I have fans venting the heat out of the hood, I will add more fans when I get the chance, most of the anoles actually go up into the lights! Im sure it has to be at least 140F in there! but they love it! I keep the tank cooler for know by turning off the day light floros while leaving the actinic blues on, then giving it a good misting, it simulates a rain storm and lowers the temp to 89F at the top, 82 in the middle and 74 at the bottom, I can keep this temp stable as long as I keep the above mentioned routine (about twice a day) so again, any comments will be appreciated! good or bad, wont hurt me a bit! =)

Ok, first of all, the vivarium hardscape is awesome!! You have such a good foundation for adding epiphytes. Now, I am *assuming* that the background is made from expandable foam with coco bedding siliconed over it. In that case, you are set(if your background is different than this let me know).

All you need to do is buy some stoloneforous bromeliads. Basically, they are broms that grow from sticks. The best type to use for vivs are the miniature neoregelia types. All you do...it's so easy...you just clean off the brom, stick its stolon (stick) into the expandable foam, and keep the center of the plant filled with water.

Good beginner broms: neo fireball, neo superball, and any other mini neo species. Go to www.tropiflora.com, click on the "cargo report" and you're in bromeliad paradise.

Bromeliads are very hardy. They can take a beating and it's hard to kill them - just water them a few times a week so that their centers stay filled with a little water.

Now, for your lighting situation, why are you using actinic bulbs!? Those are for saltwater aquariums. They give off a weird looking blue light. My advice: use between 5400K and 6800K lights (basically light that mimics sunlight). As for the heat issue, just shoot for tons of ventilation inside of the light hood. Vents, fans, anything to move air through. Just be sure that you're not sucking out the nice humid air inside your vivarium.

Hope this helps.

Danny

Thanks,it is indeed expandable foam with coco bedding siliconed over it,they are indeed saltwater aquarium lights I got the complete set up for a good price so yeah,the day floros simulate sun light and I use the actinic blues as they give the tank that "sundown" effect,I shut down the day light floros first so that the blues stay on for an hour or so,they make the tank look like the dawn, then I switch the blue moonlight leds on and shut down the blues, the blue leds make the tank look like moonlight shining through leaves,I do this so the critters eyes can adapt to the light difference slowly,I read somewhere that frogs cant dialate thier eyes as fast as we do,so I repeat this in reverse in the morning,the floros are two actinic blues 12000K each, and two daylights 12000K each,65W each,I dont know if this is good,is this a suitible lighting set up? please let me know.

Ok, if I were you, I would only use actinic bulbs only for YOUR benefit. If you think the blue tint looks cool, then go for it. Just remember that the actinics aren't giving your plants much usable light and they are generating heat.

As for the frogs liking the actinic bulbs, I think the cons of using a heat generating actinic bulb outweigh the pro's of using one. I have kept everything, from whites tree frogs to darts to suriman toads...they don't need actinics. Whites sleep during the day, and their eyes usually open after it gets dark. They ususally miss sunset all together.

I would replace all of your actinics with 5400K-6700K color bulbs. In the morning and the evening, you could stagger the rate at which the bulbs turn on or off, therefore stimulating sunrise and sunset. In my opinion, this looks more realistic than blue tinted light.
LED moonlights are great!! Don't make any heat, mimic the moon, and I do believe that they are beneficial to the frogs.

cdfortin, Do you have any recent photos of your red eye set up? If you do please post some as I would like to see how the plants grew in, also, I just finished adding more vents and a larger fan in the hood/lights, I also added a sheet of plexi glass, I mounted it right over the pvp crate (visible in the pics) so now the temp at the top of the tank is a constant 91.8F, its a lot better than a constant 100+F! I have a plant that is known locally (Puerto Rico) as the "Papa Gayo" or "father rooster" for you non spanish speaking folks, I gathered it from the wild myself it was growing in the fiberous base of a palm tree taking full sun and temps of 90F and higher, it looks to be some type of brom, actually it looks like the top of a pineapple and is doing great in the tank so I think I might do good with the others you mentioned, Do you have any pups of the type you mentioned? If so would you sell? that goes for everyone! =) Please let me know! =)

First of all, I'm sorry but I took apart the red eye vivarium after I built my giant vivarium. There's a link below to pics of the giant one (now completed). I'm no where near done planting it but you can get an idea of how it will eventually look. I have been keeping dozens of bromeliads in it with great success. Some of the plants still have plastic markers next to them but of course I'll take those out as soon as I finish documenting names.

As for me having bromeliad pups, I do have a few, but you might as well just buy from tropiflora (unless there's a conflict since you're in puerto rico). Prices for stoloneforous broms start around 3 bucks each and go up to around 10 or 15 bucks each.

Don't they have tropical forests in Puerto Rico? I'm sure you could collect a few plants (provided that it's legal).

Here is a link that might be useful: Vivarium

Cdfortin, Im not in PR, Im in Philadelphia, I just make it a point to pick up a few plants whenever I travel to a tropical place, I hope to go to PR soon and I will pick up a couple of nice plants now that I have something in mind, the last time I went I just collected a couple of plants to have as house plants,They do have many tropical forrest in PR and I know that I have seen many different types of broms groing everywhere! So yes, I will have a field day as I can bring home whatever plant I like as long as they are free of soil/sand, I also plan on bringing home some frogs called Coquis by the locals, I dont know the scientific name but they are really cool! Im sorry to hear that you took that tank apart, it was really beautiful, anyways, I will check out your newer tank now.

Ive tried them all. The mist king pump melted and kept spewing water into one of my carnivous plant enclosures until the sound of running water (overflowing from the vivarium) woke me up. The pro mist products didnt melt but spit and sputtered right out of the box and they blamed it on me. I finally gave up on all of the prepackaged misting systems and built one from scratch using a simple timer from the hardware store, water pump from flojet and misting nozzles & fittings from cloudtops misting. Its held up quite well throughout the years. Im surprised that no one has came in to shut down mist king yet.

Ive had a Mist King system for years now and it is the best quality I have seen after researching several brands...and the customer service was top notch..best nozzles hands down...

www.mistoutinc.com