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Mixing Critters

Posted by janfitc San Francisco, CA (My Page) on
Wed, Dec 6, 06 at 13:42

I am putting together my first terrarium and I'm really excited, but I'm trying to curb my enthusiasm with some well grounded reality. I am apprehensive to go all out with what I want my final terrarium to look like because this is my first try and I don't want to kill any little critters in the learning process. SO...I'm hoping someone can help me.

I live in San Francisco, so the weather is cold and unstable (if anyonehere is in the Bay Area and has some general suggestions they would be appreciated). I would really like some cool critters in my terrarium, but I'm not sure what how many is suitable for the size (18"x18"x24"). Also, I'm not sure what types of critters can co-exist in a terrarium. I was thinking about some sort of frogs, maybe some geckos, I would love a chameleon, and I don't know if I could put in any sort of beetle or centi-/milipede.

Can anybody tell me what combinations work well? Which combinations are absolute no-no's? Maybe even what type of plants would be best for this type of set up and anything else I may be missing or wouldn't have thought of?

Right now, my terrarium has two orchids (one hanging, one planted), a bunch of air plants, some moss, a venus fly trap, a small bonsai, and some bamboo (grass and stalk). Are any of these things not good to have with critters? ALso, I am creating a small pool in the corner - how deep is too deep for critters? How deep should the pool be for small fish (goldfish or neons)?

Thanks so much for all the help. Any other suggestions greatly appreciated (heating, do I need a misting system, etc.).


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Mixing Critters

Hey there, Ill give you a quick response and example, I have a tank set up with some broms and mosses and ferns and a couple others, its 31 inches high x 24 inches wide x 24 inches deep (from front to back) its about a 40G tall, it has three tree frogs, two green and one bird voiced tree frog, they create more waste than I like to clean! It really gets messy in there....on a daily basis! So if you, and your critters, dont mind daily cleaning, add critters, but remember, I only have three in a well established 40G set up and they make a big mess daily! as for mixing these: frogs, geckos, chameleon, beetles, centipedes, and milipedes, remember, frogs, geckos, and chameleons will eat beetles, centipedes, and millipedes,if you are talking about the "giant" types of the centipedes/millipedes, they will eat your frogs, geckos, and chameleons, and if your talking about true chameleons, they need an entirely different set up than we have and are best when kept alone, please research any and all critters before you choose what your going to try and keep, Ive been doing this for a couple of years now and have just, in the past year or so, been able to keep my common tree frogs alive and well! The idea of a small pool is nice, but if you want to keep fish, no matter how small the fish is, the water might be to deep to keep critters around, a small shallow pool is best because a lot of people report that their PDF have drowned! Yes, drowned! in pools they have built, remember that tree frogs and PDfs are exactly that, tree frogs, they are not used to being in deep water. I hope that bit of info helps a bit =) Try to hang in there as Im sure someone else will log on eventually and give you more advice =) drop in from time to time, its starting to get a bit lonely in here! LOL!


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RE: Mixing Critters

I have dart frogs, and if you set up the tank correctly, they are very easy to care for. Mine only require misting, a couple of times per day to keep it clean, Here is a link to some of my pictures.

Here is a link that might be useful: My frogs


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RE: Mixing Critters

Hello Tony
Nice to see you still posting in this forum, I bet it does get lonely.
This mixing critter thing is one thing I have had a lot of success with over the years. There are many ways and tricks for mixing critters that people would not normally think could coexist. For instance, who doesn't know that cats and dogs are mortal enemies? And yet we see them kept as pets in the same house quite commonly and the seem be get along and even play together at times. How about Cats and birds, or cats and mice? Under normal circumstances any cat would catch and kill (and possibly eat) a bird or mouse, and yet I'm sure we have all heard of or witnessed a bird or mouse brought up in the same house as a cat and the cat seems to be somehow trained not to give in to his natural instincts and leaves the bird or mouse alone, or maybe even plays and sleeps with them. How is that possible?
I have a Pond that has mixed critters including fish and frogs and turtles and they all get along fine, and yet some people try to put a turtle in their pond with their fish and it starts taking bites out of them. Why is that?
And you know that I have a Chameleon in a modified terrarium enclosure with a fish and a fire bellied toad for over a year now and they are all doing great.
It's not just pure dumb luck that I'm able to do this, there are some methods one can use for successfully keeping critters that might at first seem incompatible together in close confines.
As for the waste management issues you brought up, and of keeping several critters in close confines. I learned years ago how to keep lots of fish, and big fish in the small confines of an aquarium and keep their waste product in check and under control, and believe me fish can poop a lot more than frogs can.
The secret (if it's a secret at all) is circulation and filtration. And the more the better. Circulation does two things, it increases the oxygen content in the water, and the more circulation you have going through your filtration the more efficient your filtration will be. Of course there are many types of filtration you can have, but the single most important type is bio-filtration. That is the use of friendly or nitrifying bacteria necessary for establishing the nitrogen cycle. These bacteria need 4 things, water, oxygen, surface area to grow and colonize on and poop to eat. If you can give them those 4 things you'll create an efficient factory for purifying and recycling your water in your aquarium, terrarium, vivarium, plaudarium or whatever. The principle is the same in all of these types of things. In order to keep these little eco systems (and the critters living in them) healthy and self sustainable, you need to circulate and oxygenate the water within them.
Anybody can throw some dirt in an old aquarium and plant a few little plants in it and maybe throw in a little frog and call it a terrarium, but without some sort of water circulation going on the moist dirt will eventually become stagnate, anaerobic and toxic, and will have to be cleaned out.
The real trick, or art, to building a self sustaining terrarium is figuring out how to get that little eco-system and nitrogen cycle happening within the small confines of our containers.

Anyway, that's my input. :)


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RE: Mixing Critters

Not to be a party pooper, but the only vivariums okay for mixing are the very large ones (the kind you don't measure in gallons or inches). And then, only for compatible species. And THEN, only for those experienced in those compatible species.

That doesn't mean you can't have a vivarium--or even some acceptable mixing--but most things won't mix. The general rule of thumb is--if you don't know which animals work well together, you're too inexperienced to do mixed tanks. It sounds mean, but it's just being realistic, and it's just a generalization. If you're perfectly committed to researching and doing it right, consider yourself exempt.

You certainly can't keep fish in a small part of an 18"x18"x24" container, especially not with anything else. It would be impracticle to clean a tank, and fish produce so much waste that it would have to be cleaned often. In a space so small, very very often.

Most geckos are too sensitive to keep with anything else, most are to some degree territorial, and some are aggressive. Most other lizards would need a larger enclosure by themsleves, and are very territorial. Forget chameleons altogether, all but dwarf chameleons need large, ventilated cages and a very different environment--and dwarfed chameleons are for experienced keepers. Diurnal lizards also need a lot of daylight, or special UV lighting and Calcium + D3 supplement.

Some small frogs would work in an enclosure that size, but in general all the frogs would have to be the same species. A single specimen of a larger frog, or a couple of treefrogs of the same species could work. But, it is important to remember that most frogs are to some degree toxic, especially to other frogs. Remember that amphibian skin absorbs all kinds of things from the environment, so toxins from fish, birds, lizards, etc. waste would kill them.

But, mixed vivariums can be done. I'll use a personal example, because it is one I would recommend to someone who is willing to research but has not kept herptiles before--outside (I live in a 10b), I keep a 60 gallon vivarium with many frog-safe plants, several small frogs of the same species, as well as insects/arthropods. The top to the vivarium is not shut, so no creature is stuck there. Anoles have often make their way inside, and there have been resident baby anoles (this tank is not under direct sunlight so the lizards would leave to bask in the sun and eat) that would leave as they grew older. I keep probably at least 30 Greenhouse frogs in it (an Eleutherodactylus species, related to coqui, which do not need water pools and do not breed in water) which have bred for me several times. A lot of roly-poly isopods, terrestrial snails, spiders, and insects. All but the isopods could leave if they found the environment anything but favorable.

I do not compromise the enclosure by tailoring it to just one of the species, or by creating an environment that is not particularly suited for any of the species but that they could all still survive in for some time (that is what usually happens in mixed vivariums). The vivarium includes separate niches for each animal involved, and no animal is getting less than its optimal environment.

The plants include several epiphytic bromeliad species, a few moss species, two species of Peperomia, and some upper-level plants all on milled peat (none are toxic--keep in mind the herps will eat whatever bugs are in there that eat the plants in the first place).

I use only rain water in the enclosure, but distilled water (with a little tap water) if it has not rained in some time and the moss starts to dull. That is for the moss and the broms, but also to prevent a build up of minerals in the enclosure. During the day, I have spiders and insects for me to look at and at night there are the tiny frogs (if I can bear the mosquitoes) and snails. And, of course, the plants!

When you can't find animals that work together, there is one other trick. It requires a rather large enclosure, further divided with plastic panels (stuck with aquarium sealant). It works for having the illusion of mixed frogs, salamanders, and geckos that require similar conditions. I've seen tanks that look like one big tank with several species, but they are really separate tanks all together (each one with a different species). The tanks are planted to be viewed from the long side, so you don't see the glass panels, and one tank is made the front and one the back with the rest in the middle. I hope that makes sense!

My advice is to figure out which animal you want most in your tank (that fits), and then build the tank around that animal. If you're able to combine tanks, as stated above, even better. But, if not, work around that animal and there may be insects or snails or whatever else that could work.

Just remember: There may be an appeal to replicate nature and have several kinds of animals living and interacting together, but a small tank is never a replica of nature. Just because animals will still survive, because that's what they'll do until their very limit, doesn't mean it's good for them. Do your research, take your time, and I guarantee it will pay off!


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RE: Mixing Critters

Tetrazygia
I'm afraid the only party you are probably pooping on is your own. LOL It's not my intent to be mean, but if you did the research you are suggesting you would find that there are plenty of successful mixed habitats measured in inches and gallons. In fact the boom in popularity of the now familiar River
Tank
has led to some companies mass producing their own prefabricated versions.
If you read the detail of the description in that link they say "It's a dynamic, living habitat in a tank where fish, plants, lizards and frogs interact in ecological balance", all within the dimensions you seem to think is impossible. Keep in mind that this one example I linked to is not some sort of experimental prototype, but rather a copy of other successful designs that has been around for years.
I personally prefer watery type designs such as the river tank and plaudariums because they are much easier to maintain an ecological balance within compared to a typical soil only terrarium that are commonly built with no drainage and prone anaerobic bacteria build up under the soil due to the lack of circulation.
As for cleaning of these small habitats, if you understand what you are doing and create a balanced mix of plants animals and circulation you'll be able to keep cleaning to a minimum. All animal waste will be converted into nitrogen and hopefully absorbed by the plants root system. The other advantage of a watery system such as the river tank is that if you do get an excessive build up of toxic ammonia and nitrates in the water before your plant system is established you can do frequent water changes to eliminate the danger of such toxins. Something that is tough to do in a soil only enclosure.
You are correct however that the smaller systems can be more challenging to keep balanced. One method commonly used with smaller enclosures is to have a separate water filter system that takes the water out of the smaller closed system, cleans it and returns it to the display enclosure. This not only allows for a much larger more efficient filter system, but effectively increases total volume of water without actually increasing the size of the display enclosure itself.

I would be curious to see some pictures of your 60 gal vivarium that contains 30 greenhouse frogs? and anoles. Sounds interesting.


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RE: Mixing Critters

Here is a link to a someone's paludaruim who's mixed critter list included 2 Fire bellied newts, 4 Freshwater clams, 4 African pygmy frogs, 12 Neon tetra, 4 Kuhli loaches, 2 Pictus catfish, 8 Otocinculus,5 Cloud mountain minnows, 6 Guppies plus several dozen fry.
Paludaruim


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RE: Mixing Critters

Mucky Waters,

I did not say impossible. But, as far as herptiles are concerned, it is usually unwise. If you had done the research yourself, you would be saying the same thing I am and encouraging others to research instead of jumping into setting up a mixed vivarium. The advice they will get from replies in a single thread will not be enough to prepare them to do this successfully.

I am not saying a mixed tank CAN'T work. If I had been, I wouldn't have given the example of my successful mixed viv. But it does matter what you mix and how you do it. I meant to encourage those interested to do their research and plan--because it's possible and can be very rewarding--but still be realistic and candid about it all.

Anyone who wants to experiment can. I'm offering advice to people who don't want to see their viv fail, their animals die, their money wasted. The safest thing to do is keep each species separate unless we're talking fish. Realistically, I know people still want to mix and so am sharing the differences between what will prove successful and what won't. I'm using my viv as an example because I think it draws a better picture than trying to think up situations that will or won't probably work.

Now, I am familiar with the animals inside of my tank and all are found in the same environment. Amphibians are very sensitive creatures, and terrestrial amphibian species should only be mixed in large enclosures by people who know what they are doing. Ideally. There are people there who will selfishly do whatever they want, despite what is best for the animals, because brightly colored animals stuck together in a small glass tank looks pretty to them.

In tanks with large areas of water, aquatic frogs can be kept with suitable fish because, as you said, it is easier to clean tanks of water. The second link you provided is an example. But a small area in a small tank set aside for fish is not a good idea, on top of being impractical to clean. And newts are, in general, particularly toxic... and not the best tank mates for other amphibs.

Mixed tanks measured in gallons are not successful when they contain a wide array of animals, especially not when the animals should be occupying the same niches or require different environmental conditions. If you read the above posts, the animals mentioned were mostly incompatible in all but the largest enclosures. That people didn't realize this speaks for the amount of research they did.

A person experienced in keeping those animals and willing to provide a large enough enclosure would have better luck. But those who know what they are doing are not looking for the short answer. The short answer is, simply, "no." The long answer involves research and experience.

Anyway, my mixed viv is an open enclosure. I did not say there were anoles in it--there have been young anoles in it inconsistently. They came in on their own, spent some time there, and left whenever they felt like it. I did not put them there. Because the tank is not under direct sunlight and I do not use UV lights, they cannot stay.

The greenhouse frogs are small and have bred for me a few times in 2006 (all within a couple of months). I have been keeping herptiles for years and am down to three enclosures (this one being the only mixed tank). It self-cycles and needs almost no care. I do not clean the tank at all, only tear out plants sometimes for aesthetic purposes.

It spent its first year as a terrarium, getting established. For the first six months I kept only peat and live moss in there, but kept fish separately to pour their old water into this tank to keep nitrogen levels high and get the bacteria going. I grew plants in peat moss outside of the tank so when the time came there would be no fertilizers on them. Then I added the plants, and collected Isopods and earth worms and left them a few months (the tank was covered at this point). Then I changed the lid for chicken wire (kept open) and added greenhouse frogs I found in the yard. Also superworm beetles because they eat decomposing wood, small spiders, etc.

The frogs have been there two years and I have only fed them once, about two months after the last batch of froglets were born to reduce any competition. But, if the frogs ever find it too crowded, they are welcome to leave.

The link you provided to the River Tank looks pretty ridiculous. Of course there are companies willing to capitalize on people, telling them they can mix all kinds of creatures together. They know that's what people, particularly novices, want to do! And I've seen worse.


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RE: Mixing Critters

It's true, you didn't use the exact word "impossible", but what you said in your previous to last post was,,, and I quote,,,"You certainly CAN'T keep fish in a small part of an 18"x18"x24" container, especially not with anything else."
So I simply posted some links showing that it has, and is being done, and tried to explain how it is people are accomplishing this. As for me doing the research, I have done my share, and I also have many years of successful experience keeping mixed critters including reptiles, amphibians and fish, in small terrarium/paludaruim type enclosures. That's why I balk so loudly at your nay saying.

Another comment you made was "The safest thing to do is keep each species separate unless we're talking fish."
Well I'm afraid I have to disagree with that on a couple of different levels too. First of all the safest thing to do would be to not keep anything at all. I mean if you can't handle the fact that some critter might die under your care, then the best thing to do is never try keeping any critters at all. If, on the other hand, you are up to the responsibility and can handle the fact that some critters may die under your care, (which they eventually will because nothing lives forever), then maybe you are ready to try and experiment a little, even though it may not be "the safest thing to do".
The other point is that of mixing fish species. Your statement makes it sound like mixing any fish species is ok, which is far from true. As with mixing reptiles and amphibians the most important consideration is size and temperament, but (and this is where the research comes in) many species of fish, as well as some species of reptiles and amphibians, can't stand to be confined with others of their own kind. So the keeping of certain species together with those of their own kind, may be the LEAST safest thing you could do.

So although I agree with you that research is certainly a good thing, I think the best learning tool is practical experience. Get in there and get your hands dirty and don't be afraid or upset to suffer a few loses, because some loses are inevitable.
Sometimes you just have to observe to come up with solutions, even though sometimes the solutions may present their own problems. I remember I had a hard time keeping crayfish in one mixed species tank I had years ago. 99% of the time the crayfish got along with the other critters I had in the tank, but when the crayfish molted they became extremely vulnerable to the other critters that would take advantage of this fact and attack the temporarily defenseless crayfish. The only way I found to ensure the crayfish could survive their molt was to provide plenty of hiding place only accessible by the crayfish. My solution worked, but the problem with it was with the reclusive and nocturnal nature of the crayfish. When I provided the hiding places I never saw the crayfish again, in fact I was never sure the solution had worked until I dismantled the tank one day and eventually exposed the, still quite healthy, crayfish. At least I tried. :)

Oh and by the way, the river tank I linked to has worked very successfully for many people. My kids school has had one in there library for a number of years. If it seems ridiculous to you perhaps you need to just get out more???


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RE: Mixing Critters

Hi everyone Its been a while since I visited. Like mucky_waters
suggested get a river tank I had one for over three years now It is practically maintenance free. I have plenty of different species in my tank Green Basilisk, Water Dragon, toads, frogs newts turtles fish crabs and crayfish all are together and are happy. they just have to be brought together when they are all young. Except for a few fishes I had no deaths so far just remember If you put a turtle in the tank make sure that you buy a small species or it will eat the fish I have a southern painted turtle adult growth is 4". You need to do plenty of reserch for care

Here is a link that might be useful: pictures of my river tank


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RE: Mixing Critters

Hi Angelo, nice tank.
I have never personally had that sort of a river tank, but I have always been enthralled with the concept and firmly believe in the flowing water concept is a much easier way of keeping small terrarium type enclosures balanced and healthy than a soil only design.
Years ago I built two water large watery type terrariums before that had an aquarium situated below the main terrarium enclosure in which water flowed via a small stream and waterfall. Below the terrarium and to the side of the aquarium is where I would hide the pumps, filters and other paraphernalia. The first and largest of the two was about 6 ft tall X 7 ft wide X 2 ft deep, and built into a closet area which turned out to be the biggest drawback. It was unmovable and had to be dismantled when I moved. The second I built I tried to keep smaller and movable. It had an open top area and I never really was as satisfied with it as the enclosed one, mainly because I was limited in the type of critters I was able to keep in it and because of the open top, and because the water in the aquarium would evaporate much too fast being open to the air like that.
Unfortunately I don't have any pictures of any of them, the larger and better one was dismantled over 20 years ago. Below is a very rough drawing of the basic idea of what it looked like. What I have now is a much different design but is still designed around the flowing water concept.

So Angelo, having real experience with keeping mixed critter in a river tank, do you feel they are ridiculous or that the company who sold it to you has capitalized on your naivety?


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RE: Mixing Critters

when I bought the tank I only wanted it for my lizards and I wanted to add fish to the tank. I bought the tank because it was unique. I do not the texture of the prefab tank. I really customized it. It was artificial looking shiny plastic with some dark paint on it. I thought it was ugly so I mixed sand with epoxy resin coated the whole thing now it looks more natural and rock like, also the tank was never supposed to have a land area that was all designed by me. Without the textured surface, a land area, plants and vines there is no way the lizards can grip the surface they would just slip off I tested it out before I assembled it. So in reality the tank is not practical. I bought it over the internet. If I saw it in a store I probably never would of bought it because it looks so fake. With imagination and creative touch the tank is great people who have seen it are amazed. For the fist few days I had my lizards and fish in the fish in the tank only. A few days later I added the turtles frogs and toads. Its been about three years now. the only maintenance I do is change the filter water changes algae removal and I trim back the plants. the tank has a misting system ultrasonic humidifier and great lighting all are controlled by timers.


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RE: Mixing Critters

Hi Mucky! Good hearing from you! and yes, its been VERY lonely! This place has been a graveyard! Ill leave the topic to the guys in the know ;) Talk to you later!


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RE: Mixing Critters

When mixing critters it is important to recognize the differences in capability of animals to adapt.To compare cats and dogs which have been domesticated for untold generations to animals which are either actually wild or barely removed by a couple of generations is apples and oranges.Most carnivorous herps have a very simple definition of food which can be expressed mathematically
Movement+fitting in my mouth=Food.Angelo I am sure your Water Dragon will be just fine!Some are more specific in their diets and can be kept with non-food types of smaller size,but not frogs and carnivorous lizards.If they can catch it and swallow it they eventually will.The larger the system and the better the design the longer you can get away with mistakes,but it will all work out in the end.Just not the way we would have liked it all the time!
John


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RE: Mixing Critters

I would like to add to the discussion on a mixed species vivarium. I have set up one 5 month ago and have been quite successful so far. The "cage" is a large [48"W x 64"H x 28"D, of 0.75" thick exterior plywood, epoxy painted] box with a 26"W x 38"H 0.25" thick glass observation window in the front and 4 12"x 22" screened side openings for ventilation. Four 2-foot fluorescent bulbs for illumination and 2 gravel-covered polyethylene trays [20"x 12"x 6" ] as containers for the pots with the plants and holding some water. The rest of the ground is covered with a 2 to 4" layer of live oak leaves. This includes the area of a sand-covered heating pad kept near 100F. Dead live oak branches are used as support for the vines and as scaffold for decorations with Tillandsia epiphytes such as Spanish moss and Bartram's spike moss. The plants are: Nephytis vine [Syngonium podophyllum], golden pothos vine [Epipremnum aureum], cast-iron plant [Aspidistra elatior], aluminum plant [Pilea cadierei] and tuberous sword fern [Nephrolepis cordifolia]. These plants were selected for their ability to grow under fluorescent lights and at moderately high temperatures, and are doing fine and growing. The animals introduced are: 1 large carabid beetle [Pasimachus spec], 2 pink-toe tarantulas [Avicularia avicularia] 3 adult huntsman spiders [Heteropoda venatoria], 6 green tree frogs [Hyla cinerea], 1 barking tree frog [Hyla gratiosa], 2 Southern toads [Bufo terrestris], 1 five-lined skink [Eumeces fasciatus], 1 African house gecko [Hemidactylus mabouia] and 3 green anoles (1 male!) [ Anolis carolinensis]. Additionally various insects were introduced partially as food insects and also for "refuse" removal. These were speckled roaches [Nauphoeta cinerea], Florida wood roaches [Eurycotis floridana], Mexican twig ants [ Pseudomyrmex gracilis], acrobat ants [Crematogaster ashmeadi] and Zophobas morio the large meal-worm beetle. All of these are thriving on a diet of ripe fruit pieces and a mix of ground dog chow and corn with daily misting with rain water. Occasionally house crickets and black soldier fly larvae have been added for variety. The relative humidity is kept between 65 and 75% at a constant temperature near 80F. As of today [ May 18th, 2011] all creatures are thriving and noticeably gaining size and weight. No animals have been escaping and are also not the species that would successfully establish themselves as house pests.


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RE: Mixing Critters

I also have a question I just built a tank that is 7' tall 5' long and 4' wide for my water dragon and built in it a mini river made out of rock flowing into a 10 gallon tank of water creating a waterfall I only have one plant in it right now a burgundy rubber tree but I plan to put 2 more tropical plants and a hanging ivy and the whole bottom besides the river and plants is that Eco earth block I plan on throwing some moss in there to is there any animal I can mix in the tank with my water dragon and the feeder fish that stay in the 10 gallon tank part?


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RE: Mixing Critters

Hey janfitc,
I agree with most of the previous posters who have said that mixing species can be difficult or have disastrous results (i.e. tankmates devouring one another. However let me suggest a short list of semi-compatible species which are cheap, readily available, and relatively easy to care for.

Green Anole or Brown Anole (I would not keep these two species together so pick one or the other)
Common House Gecko
Long-tailed Grass Lizard
Green Treefrog
Grey Treefrog
Squirrel Treefrog
Barking Treefrog
Fire-bellied Toad

All of these species can handle similar light/heat/moisture/dietary requirements requirements and tend not to be aggressive towards each other.


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RE: Mixing Critters

I have a 70gal tank (6'x2x2), with volcano-fogger with hide, double waterfall hide, & large chichen itza hide with rock wall/steps... can you tell me a good combo of critters & plants to put in it. my wife has her heart set on 2-3 red eye tree frogs , I was going to put neon tetras in the waterfall pool.& maybe 1-2(female)day- neon, gold-dust, blue-tailed or ornate -gecko's & a long tailed grass lizard with a fire belly toad. with live crickets, worms & fruit for diet. would this be an OK setup..I was going to add some trees and live plants too, but am unsure which ones...are bromeliads, ponytail palm, bamboo, Boston fern, spider orchid, Purple Pitcher (Sarracenia Purpurea) with glow'n dark calcium sand, paper towel & Irish moss as a substrate... or do i need potting soil for the plants.. & if so what kind? how would i make it into a river flow as mentioned above
any & all help would be greatly needed & appreciated

Here is a link that might be useful: RE: Mixing Critters


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RE: Mixing Critters

Dude, for starters it might be best to start a separate thread for youself. This is an old thread and as such likely will garner very little traffic.

Next, definitely do some searches on this forum. I know it will take some time but some of the answers to your Q already exist. (And the original posters of said answers are very infrequent visitors in some cases.)

Next, I will add that the sheer number of organisms you are toying with adding is WAY too large for a tank of this size.

Having said that, I need to run. Do try and start your own thread after doing some research here. After that, hopefully myself or someone else (or many someones) will be able to pop by and hit some of your Qs that aren't addressed elsewhere.

Happy planting!


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