Yep, that is fine. Keeps the humidity up. Here are my artichoke and leek seedlings. I have about 21 artichoke plants but can only plant a max of 10. Going to try to trade the rest with local gardeners for something interesting.

I do not see your growing lights. Don't you need to put under growing lights after a couple of true leaves appear?

If warm, humidity seems to be good and seedlings seem to lap it up! These toms both sprout and grow to transplant-cup size in warmth and thick humidity. Since they're outside, have a strong enough heat source, and are in glass, no lights needed.

I use 11"x22" trays with 6 6-cel packs each. They fit nicely under 4 bulb 4' fluorescent light fixtures. And actually, I always cut one cel out for ease of watering.

But when I first plant the seeds in the cels , I cover the trays with plastic dome covers and keep the trays upstairs where the temperature is a relatively balmy 70F. When the seeds germinate, I bring them to the basement 4 shelf light stand where it is closer to 60F. What IâÂÂve read suggests that most seedlings grow better at cooler temperatures than ideal germination temperatures.

My light fixtures are attached under each shelf above, so I use small plywood platforms of varying heights to raise my trays to the lights rather than adjust the height of the lights. SO much easier!

The plastic dome covers for the trays do fog up, but that doesn't seem to be a problem until they are up and growing. I remove them after germination.

The planting unit is in the basement where it gets down to 60F, but the light fixture below each shelf raises the temperature above some few degrees. And I have a whole house humidifier going in winter, so they don't seem to dry out after I remove the plastic domes, yet not humid enough to cause problems.

As soon as I see the first root creeping out through the cel pack bottoms, I transplant them to some 3âÂÂx3âÂÂx6â deep plastic containers I saved from perennials I bought years ago. I bury them down to the top several leaves.

When THOSE show roots growing out the bottoms, I transplant again into 8â pots, again with only the tops exposed. My goal in an extensive roots system from the buried stems.

I use standard potting soil. I used to use sterile soil but I havenâÂÂt seen any difference in growth or health.

By the time the seedlings are ready to harden outside (10 weeks from planting seems about average), they are about 12â high and have a root system that will hold the soil from the pots..

I plant them so about 2/3 is below ground, straight down.

Y...thanks for that. You have a good system that works for you. Beginners like me....have no system. haha. I will use a 4' shop light that I used in the past for my avocado grafts. I hope to do this in my garage....where the temps range from 45-75 in February. Will 45 degrees at night be a problem??? I could move the light inside the house I suppose.

Fireduck, your tomato seedlings will not thrive at 45F! Its not the average temperature, its the coldest temperature that will harm them. Tomatoes are tropical plants. The cold temperatures can stunt them the whole year.

There are solutions. Things like heating pads under covered tents to hold the heat, but keeping them in more warm indoors conditions seems easiest.

I will keep them indoors. thanks

Peat pellets are fine for STARTING, but once they get a set of true leaves, one should move them to a potting mix, imo.

fireduck: Actually, as soon as they break the surface, you should pull off the mat and directly under lights about an inch away. This will prevent seedlings from getting leggy.

Kevin

For me I do not like the peat pellets. I have had awful results every time I used them. I switched to coir, and my seedling survived. I have used both MG, and Jiffy bagged starting mix. The Jiffy dried out too fast. I lost a few seedling to dry out in hours.Mg has worked so far. I added some pearlite to it, and it seems to work ok so far.

As soon as I see true leaves starting to form I pot up. I use my own 5-1-1 mix. I have a bit of extra pearlite added to it so it probably closer to a 5-1-2 or 3. Last year I had great results, and am working on making it a repeat.

As far as peat pots (the pots, not the pellets. I liked them last year. For potting up I soaked them till they were wet, and peeled them right off fluffed the roots a bit, and into the next pot. No problems at all. I just know if there is anything like netting, or a peat pot I take it off before potting up, or planting out. I learned by seeing too many dead plants pulled up with intact pots, and netting that were root bound to the point it killed the plant.

Well, I will plant some seeds today in cells with MG seed starter mix...with saran wrap on top. I have certainly got mixed messages on the "best" way to germinate/re-pot. Peat pellets/no pellets, dome/no dome, and of course heat mat/no mat. It is kind of fun to listen to others' opinions. Like I said...I don't have a "system" yet...too inexperienced. I wonder if I should put the cells in a tray with water...to water/keep moist from underneath???

Have you checked out all the FAQs over on the Growing from Seed forum? Plus there are lots of previous discussions there too on most any related issue.

Dave

"I wonder if I should put the cells in a tray with water...to water/keep moist from underneath"

Peat pellets with toms/peppers can take soak watering just fine, and they seem to drain well and quickly from that abuse, but I wouldn't dare to keep them constantly WET. Damp, OK. Wet, not so OK. I don't know if that's one of the two thousand hard and fast rules of growing tomatoes, but that's the way it seems to work for me here in this place.

@centexan254: "too many dead plants pulled up with intact pots, and netting that were root bound to the point it killed the plant.:

Yes, it's true that your dead plants will have an intact peat pellet, but even the healthy living-to-a-ripe-old-age plants will have an intact peat pellet. As for bound roots, the plant below has a peat pellet in the middle of all that mess and it looks like any root binding's going to come because of that foam cup! This is not to say you're wrong, just that contrary ways can also be right. This thing goes into the ground this week, with nighttime temps in the low 40s and maybe high 30s. With all these strikes against it, it will still grow just fine.

You know I'm going to defend these little pellets until the day I die, doncha?

Grubby me I have not had any plants die from root binding with pots, or the peat pellets. I have never planted them without taking them off. I have however pulled dead plants from the gardens of friends that wondered why the plant they had that looked so healthy suddenly went kaput.

Oh and it is not the pellet itself that does the harm. It is the netting that they are wrapped up in. Most instructions say it is not needed to remove it, that it will biodegrade. I have seen the plants that looked great for a short while. Then they go down fast.

Thinking it is too easy to snip off the nets. I think I will....just in case.

I was thrown off by the "peat pellets" at first. Never heard of those. I was thinking of peat "pots". And I've never had any luck with THOSE! I used to pull up unproductive wimpy plants after months inground with peat pots still intact, just a few roots poking out. In fact, when I dumped my supply of peat pots in the woodsy back yard, they were still intact 2 years later. I finally crushed them all by hand. For all I know, the pieces are still intact under the leaf litter. LOL!

Actually, cold temperatures will not stunt tomatoes for the whole year. Well, it depends how cold. Tomatoes NEED temps of at least down to 50F in order to spur flower and fruit growth. (as do other veggies.) It's called vernalizing. Tomatoes that are grown without exposure to cool temperatures won't bear well. Yes, low temperatures will slow their growth, but they're actually good for the plants. In fact, that's why tomatoes don't bear particularly well in the tropics. They never get vernalized.

Not completely sure how cold is too cold, but I've had seedlings exposed to low 40s and they did dandy, once put back in the warmth.

OK, I'm going to have to disagree a bit here. Tomatoes ARE tropical plants. They originated in Southern Mexico, and that is not a cool climate.

Most everything I read says that temps below 50 will stunt them the whole year, that they won't fruit below 60F or above 90F, and that they actually aren't "vernal". So, with great respect, may I ask the source of your information?

I'm open to new information, but this counters everything I know.

If I could help it, I would never have my seedlings much below 55 F and plants 60 F. Tomatoes are simply plants that like cool nights (60 F) and warm days (75 F), like is common in tropical highlands of Mexico, Colombia, Ecuador, etc.

A slight chill temperature of 55-60 F helps emerging seedlings get stocky in their first 10 days to two weeks according to what I believe, right or wrong, and also tricks the plant to flower sooner and when smaller, which can increase yield in climates where the season is short. While that may be called vernalization, I think that is ambiguous and it is just better to say two weeks at whatever mild temperatiure which at the lowest be 50 F.

Tomatoes yield poorly here north of latitude 30 (Austin (? for sure Houston, which is further south), Baton Rouge, Biloxi, Mobile, Jacksonville) in summer because they are not lowland adapted plants and have problems setting flowers with warm nights and too high humidity. It has nothing to do with the tropics. Mt. Everest is at the same latitude as Orlando, FL.

If there is a mistake, please correct me because seeds get started in a week!

PC

This post was edited by PupillaCharites on Wed, Jan 21, 15 at 3:41

But not the same altitude, LOL!

Johnny's says tomato seeds germinate best at 75-90F and seedlings grow best at 60-70F. Territorial agrees on the 60-70F seedling growth temp, and I bet they know what they are doing.

And I will repeat that everything I read about tomato seedlings says that early chill affects the plants for the whole season.

If you want stockier seedlings, I personally thing you are better off growing them between 60-70F, and either fanning them or brushing them manually a few times a day. Under good daylight bulbs or the equivalent.

And, you might want to consider that most good tomatoes set fruit poorly above 90F. Have you considered shade cloths in the hottest times?

References to vernalization of tomatoes are abundant. I suggest you Google "tomatoe" and "vernalization".

I believe tomatoes did not originate in Mexico, but in the Andes, where the temperatures are far lower than the Mexican plains. Hardly tropical.

I'd be interested in references to the idea that an early chill is bad for tomatoes. No question that chilly temperatures will slow germination, but I've never heard that it inflicts lasting damage on the plant.

As to shade cloth and tomatoes, I'm wasn't so sure. What counts is the air temperature, and shade cloth doesn't affect the air temperature much, does it? But in doing a little research, it appears that lots of people do it. I may try it this year, as here in HZ10, my toms shut down in July and August.

Misting is another way to keep temperatures down, but very humid air also reduces fruit-set, I believe.

I was under the impression that high nighttime temps count a lot in reducing fruit-set, and shade cloth won't help there. We get low temps of 78-80F in these months.

Re problems with peat pots, amen. I have also had stunted plants in peat pots and, when you pull them up, the peat pots are still encasing the roots. I've heard that peat pots should at least have their bases slit before planting, but that's sort of a band-aid approach to using them. In my view, peat pots are a good idea in principle, but one that just doesn't work in practice.

Daninthedirt where in CenTex are you located. I am in the Temple/Belton area. As for shade cloth I am unsure of how well or poorly it works. I do know that the plants I have that get evening shade tend to look better after inferno season ends in Sept.

Oh and for the peat pot thing. They work great for seedlings, and potting up. It is easier to transplant with them as well. Soak them down with water, and peel it right off. Then fluff the roots, and plant. When done drop the remains of the peat pot into the trash. It should biodegrade in a landfill before a baby diaper, or stryofoam cup will. (Humor attempt.)

centex254, I'm in the greater Austin area. Yes, I'd very much like to figure out how to keep my toms at least somewhat productive in the summer. I have a main crop of cherries, and those are supposed to be somewhat more resistant to heat. I can make the plants survive the summer heat, but they stop flowering and setting.

Not knowing one way or the other, I have mixed feelings about shade cloth for reducing temperature. If they reduce ventilation, it will simply get hotter underneath, not cooler. I guess if they are set up a foot or two away from the plants, shading them at a distance, that might work. But just draping them over the plants seems a recipe for cooking.

You idea about peat pots sounds like it would work. Just peel 'em off before you plant. Of course, then you're wondering why you used them to begin with.

You guys are down in FL and TX. Probably don't know what real COOL weather is. LOL
Up here in PNW (WA) we have cool weather all the time. Though our LFD is around April 1st, but our lows stay under 50F well into mid July.

Last year I planted out April 15 to May 1st. Both in April and May we had many night temps under 42F. Despite all that I started picking ripe tomatoes from July 7 on.

Tomatoes, though like warmer weather but they are tough old cookies to stand in the cold and survive. The slow growing is expected and normal but getting stunt ? I don't think so. As soon as it warms up they bounce back and grow fast.

Here is just a sample summary ( April 19- May 20, 2014)

-- High 97.5
-- low 39 F
-- Average 56 F
Approximately 15 out 30 lows were 42F and lower.

Another Example : 4th of July : H85F... L54F

NOTE: If our average temps were like 10 degrees higher, I bet my tomatoes have done much better.

Seysonn

We've been through this, seysonn. We're both in (plant hardiness) Zone 8, but we have wildly different growing conditions. I'm in Heat Zone 8 and you're in Heat Zone 1. (I used to live in Oregon, so I sorta know your drill.) I have never understood people who do vegetable gardening by plant hardiness zones. Makes zero sense, unless you're trying to overwinter plants.

Yes, our tomatoes stop fruiting in July, but hey, they go into the ground in February, and I'm eating them in late April! So they're in the ground right around last frost date, and I sometimes need to protect them from frosts even then. But I too am skeptical about cold-stunting. As you say, tomatoes are tough cookies. In my experience, if you don't kill 'em, they'll be fine.

When I started this thread...I did not know it would go all these places. Sure glad it did! Thanks guys for your differing ideas and opinions...and still staying honorable. I really think there are many different ways to cross a river. I am always open to ideas...especially when I realize I am somewhat inexperienced (serious tomato grower 3 years). I do want to use my lights in the garage (rather than in the house)...if I can. Hopefully, it wont be too cold at night. It seems my garage (attached) stays ay least 8-10 degrees warmer at night than outside.

Yesterday I planted tomatoes outside on spec and last night my wife said it was going to go down to 37 F. Since I have a bipolar micro-climate here, that went over not-so-peachy-keen. So, the most valuable lesson in pushing the season can be "are the plants small enough to still cover with a bucket at sundown"?

Pushing so early has risks like "failure", but a whole second set-out two weeks later is good mandatory insurance. You just have to be willing to pull the "bad" plants later on and put in beans!

@daninthedirt: at the urging of people local to me I started using shade cloth as a sunscreen, strung vertically away from the plants. It seemed to work, just nothing spectacular. Good enough to try again, though, even with the winds. Also, tomatoes can shade other tomatoes closely planted, also to a limited extent.

Thanks for the insight about shade cloth on tomatoes. Good idea to string it vertically, away from the plants.

Good point about tomato plants shading other tomato plants. Now that I think of it, I actually have two trellises for my cherries, one a few feet to the north of the other. That northern trellis (especially the lower parts) doesn't get as much sun as the southern one. That northern trellis is just as unproductive in August as the southern one. So I'm inclined to believe that shade cloth won't do me a lot of good. Of course, most of the flowering late in the season would happen near the top of the trellis.