I like to go directly into the ground in the garden rather than repot up to larger cups, but when that is not practical, I have had tremendous success repotting into 16 Oz styrofoam cups with holes poked in the bottom and using Miracle Gro Potting Mix with Moisture Control.

For a visual comparison, were potted up as described above and the ones on the right in the yellow plastic cups were potted up using some old left over (*brand X) potting mix. Quite a difference, eh? It sure sold me, so I feel comfortable making this recommendation.
Bill P.

I usually do have to repot before I can plant them out in the garden. Like, Bill, I have had success repotting into 16 Oz plastic (red) cups with holes poked in the bottom and using Miracle Gro Potting Mix with Moisture Control. I also like to use Miracle Gro Quick Start Planting & Transplant Starting Solution. It's suppose to help with transplant shock.

So would that Miracle Gro Potting Mix with Moisture Control be too much to start the seeds in?

I dunno, I am going to look for some different starting mix or mix up my own like I used to do, this year. Last spring I used some Jiffy Mix but was somewhat disappointed with it. I think that most of the experts recommend that you do not use anything with fertilizer in it for the starting mix. Some may depend on how you start your seeds, whether inside under lights where damping off can be a problem, or outside like I do in my Hotbed / Coldframe where I can open the lid on days where weather permits. I have never had any damping off or hardening off to do using my set up.
Bill P.

I use Jiffy Mix with good results for seed starting, that or a mix of my own using peat and vermiculite. Once sprouted and have 2 true leaves they get transplanted, deeply, into any of the many growing mixes ( I prefer Pro-Mix) in cell packs. They usually get transplanted once again into individual plastic cups before they are ready for the garden.

But mixes containing fertilizers can burn young sprouting seedlings and they don't need it anyway - they live off the seed. Once the true leaves develop a little fertilizer helps.

There is a seed starting FAQ here on this forum (with pics) and a set of good seed starting FAQ's over on the Growing from Seed forum you might want to check out.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: FAQ on Starting Tomato Seeds

prefacing with I am a newb. this is only my second year

Lesson from last year: Less Is More

An alarm bell is raised by this
> a shop light

In a fit of excitement last year I grew 80 odd starts.
I had a only few lights at the start. By the planting time
I had a dozens of lights just to keep them from getting stringy.

Caring for 80 starts and hardening them off is *alot* of work. Because its so much work, the starts will suffer.
They grow into lights and get burned, or dry out, or what have you.

And in the end you'll give most of them away.

Caring for 80 starts is no fun.
Caring for 12-20 starts is not a chore, but a pleasure.

One light is only enough for a few medium sized starts.

cookie sheets allow for the moving, and/or bottom watering* of many starts at once. Effort saved: 80%.

*once they have sprouted

I would transplant to a larger pot once. You don't want to crowd the roots of your seedlings or risk starving them of nutrients. I use a high-quality potting soil like SuperSoil. I don't know if that's available in TX, but the point is to stay away from the cheap stuff.

Scott in Napa

Even a small seedling will have surprising root growth . That is why I like to go ahead and get them into the ground as soon as danger of frost is past and let them do their thing.

In all three plants were started at the same time from seed in the same seed packet. The one in the cup in the middle was potted up to a larger pot and those on either side were put into the ground.

The foregoing is just my observations of what happened in my neck of the woods in my little back yard garden.

Another observation that I have made regarding starting seedlings (copying a suggestion of another member in the past), and no longer try to carefully place two or three in each cell. When it comes time to disturb them and re pot up to larger size cups or transplant into the ground, it is surprisingly easy to take a regular size spoon, dip the entire root ball out of the cell and separate the plants. Done right, there is really not much damage to the roots at all, and almost all of them survive the ordeal without even wilting if put into moist medium and watered in good. This has worked well for me and gives an abundance of viable seedlings to use, give away and/or sell.
Another .02 worth.
Bill P.

I've used most of the mixes mentioned. I try to mainly use a commercial mix. Usually buy it from a local greenhouse and nursery. Last year I used some Pro-Mix from HD without any fertilizer. I then spray with fish emulsion every week or so. I didn't take pictures like others do and really need too but didn't see a lot of difference. As for starting I want a mix with no ferilizer so really don't like MG but that is a personal preference from my experience. I start around 5-600 plants every spring and last year tried like six different products to start in. Peat pots can be tricky if you don't watch them. Otherwise they work well also. Just my experience. Jay

Last year was my first year of starting my own seedlings. I used cococut fiber starting pots with a soil-less starting mix. When my seedlings developed their first true leaves I transplanted them into 16 oz red plastic cups with holes punched in the bottom. The nice thing about the fiber pots was that I could just put the whole pot into the cups. For soil I used a 50/50 mix of potting soil and worm castings. Man, did they love that worm compost! They grew so much that I re-potted most of them again into 4-inch pots at about 4 weeks. And I had to put them in the ground a few weeks before it was prudent, but luckily there was no frost and they did great.

To answer your question, I'd go with regular potting mix, or try a "special" mix like I did. The point of the soil-less starting mix is that there are diseases in the soil that can kill a just-started plant. Once they get their first true leave they are past that and can be put into a regular mix.

Mike

Thanks for all the responses. Gone fishin.. those are very interesting observations w/ pics. I'll definately get them in the ground as soon as the time is right.

If you want to cook up your own sterile seed-starting mix, you could do a lot worse than to start with pure vermiculite.

I sprouted my seeds in trays of 3x3 1" cells filled with vermiculite and nothing else last year, and it worked fantastic, 100% germination, no damping-off. I suppose you might be able to improve upon it with a very slight amount of fertilizer and some fine sterile soil like ground peat. As it is, the vermiculite holds a tremendous amount of water, and it is chunky enough to also allow a lot of air to the growing roots.

I start my tomatoes in vermiculite with great results. Once the true leaves appear they are transplanted to individual containers with a good seed starting mix.

I know its difficult but try to avoid planting too early.

It seems many of us have our methods that, over the years, have proved to be advantageous. I think a lot of the variation in methods has to do with what tools we have at hand to work with in the process, when spring comes in the specific area, and the nature of that spring in regards to temperature and moisture variation, and the number of plants one must deal with in the germination/developement process.

I'm going to kind of reverse the approach to recommendations
and list what I have come to consider the most onerous mistakes that can be made; believe me I've made every one of them over the years! Probably the next thing we'll hear is all those who routinely do some of the following don'ts and never have a problem--but at any rate here we go.

1. Never buy that dirt cheap potting soil at the discount stores/etc. It's typically in a smaller size bag and heavy as lead and wet as rain! Likely it's full of desease.
2. Seed sprouting mix is best from a reputable mfg. Several have been mentioned. But don't buy last years left
   overs that have been in storage over the winter incubating a massive load of fungas and varmints!
3. Potting up is a great approach for a few dozen or less plants. Unless you are blessed with near unlimited time, patience, and room, as your crop gets bigger just start them in bigger cells or cups, don't start too soon with germination, and go directly to the garden with a moderate to larger sized plant.
4. Never mix in raw soil or nonsterile organic material like manure or compost into your starting mix.
5. Never reuse last years germination trays and cells
   (or whatever) without washing and sterilizing them. A little chlorox in the wash water does a nice job.
6. Don't just depend on flourescents for germination/initial developement of seedlings. The process needs some heat and moisture without drowning everything. For example, I germinate next to my furnace in the basement
   using clear plastic tray covers which help retain heat and moisture.
7. Get the germinated plants exposed to some real sunlight ASAP!!! Flourescents are ok until the 1st set of
   true leaves form but even a bit before then most plant types need a look through glass or plastic at the real sunlight. Even a window box is fine.
8. Avoid a religious zeal regarding wholesome natural
   organic pure righteous chemical free birthing and propigation during the seedling developement process. Once you spy a leaf yellowing, speckles, wilting without evident
   cause, spray them babies with a proper fungicide/whatever. (This surely will earn me the disrespect and enmity of millions).

However, I would like to point out that the great majority of us, in the process of raising our children, buy countless kinds of medications, vitamins, et al, just to get the lil boogers off on a good start. Only logical to give a bit of the same kind of treatment to our veggies!)

9. As soon as you possibly can, get your plants out into a temperature controlled environment, there are numerous arrangements from a greenhouse down to an in ground cold frame.

10. Don't gamble and set the plants out too soon. Watch the weather forecasts, play it safe. A few days late
    is a whole lot better than 1 day before the last frost!

11. And above all, try to learn from your inevitable mistakes! On a number of occasions my experience only served to help me recognize the same mistake the 2nd or 3rd time around.

I don't like most of the commercial starting mixes/potting soils. Admittedly, I haven't
tried many but the ones I did use have not been acceptable. The problem is that many of them
are too light, i.e. the ones with perlite or vermiculite, etc. I have no opinion on these with
respect to any other purpose but they did not work for my tomatoes. I start seeds in peat
pellets and transplant once into quart containers, of which I've tried several kinds. The
ones I like best are quart yogurt cups (Dannon if you please). The problem I've had with all
of them is that a quart container makes for a fairly large root mass. When I remove that
from the cup to set it outside, I want it all to come along with the plant. Unfortunately,
with most of the bagged potting soils you can buy, about half of that root mass would remain
in the bottom of the cup. Perhaps there are products that won't do that but I haven't found
any. There is one called "Heavy Potting Soil" (sorry, I don't remember the brand) that is
just too heavy by itself.

Here is what I use now. I go to Walmart and get some of their cheap potting soil (99 cents
a bag) This is referred to above by someone who doesn't like it but that's OK (different
strokes for different folks). Alternatively, the "Heavy Potting Soil" would also do. But
that's not all. I then mix it with a coir product (that's the ground coconut shell). I really
like this stuff and have tried several kinds. I had one (very expensive) bag from, I think,
Gardeners' Supply. It was good but I can't afford it. Miracle Gro Moisture Control works well
but be careful because they have a product with a similar name that has water retaining gel
instead of coir. This year I will try a mix with either "walmart' or 'heavy' mixed with
pure coir. You can buy it in bricks for a reasonable price.

The result I have had with this mix has been very good. The "heavy stuff" contributes
some firmness and the coir product really holds LOTS of water and portions it out to the
plant over time. I water once a day, even when the plants are really big and really
thirsty. The combination sticks together well enough that I get the entire root ball when
setting out into the garden. And coir is a "renewable" resource that contributes to the
economies of developing countries.

I agree with gonefishin. For a more detailed set of pics and narrative on my favorite method, check out the Tomato + ville website with nctomatoman's (Craig LeHoullier)seed starting guide.

Gonefishin- I was wondering if you have started your seeds yet as we are in same zone ?? If not , when do you usually start yours????
CDGTXS

Hi CDG. No I have not started mine yet. I have started getting things ready, filled my hotbed / cold frame with some compostable material to generate heat and soaked seed starting trays in some bleach water. I will look for some seed starting material @ H.D. tomorrow or monday. I have been going through my seeds and trying to decide which ones will not get a place in the garden this year (I have too many to try them all).

March 18th is the average last frost date for this zone (depending on which chart you look at) and most often recommendations are to start your seedlings six to eight weeks ahead of that date. I think that to be safe and depending on what the weather forecast is at the time, I like to wait another week or two if necessary, rather than be covering my plants up. I do sometimes save up about 25 one gallon milk jugs to cut the bottom out and set over any early plants in case a late frost is predicted though.

If I figure correctly, to start seeds 8 weeks before last frost date would mean starting them this week end, and six weeks ahead of time would push the date to the first week end in February. (I really do need to get something going, I only have a few tomatoes still ripening from the fall crop!! I told my wife at lunch today that I think that it is incredible to still be able to slice a couple of small home grown tomatoes.) I am going to have problems when she starts wanting me to buy some of those high dollar grocery store maters. ":^)
Bill P.

Thanks for the info , I have only been starting from seeds for a couple of years . In the past I always planted early , if they froze, buy more and replant.Now that I have gotten older my old bones will not stand replanting and covering plants in the snow so I need to try and get it right the first time.Again thanks!!
CDG

This is my first year to grow tomatoes from seed. I mixed together an 8 quart bag of spaghnum peat moss and an 8 quart bag of vermiculite with about 4 tbsp. of lime, moistened it in a bucket and then filled 2 trays (Ferry Morse) each having 72 little black cups.

I planted some Soldacki and Cherokee Purple tomato seeds saved from last year along with several other purchased varieties. I covered the two trays with the plastic lids that came with the trays. Then I put newspaper over them because I read that they don't need light to germinate. I left them at room temperature in our basement. It didn't take long (about 4 days) before they began to sprout. Immediately, we put them under floresent lights and left them for 16 hours. We turned the lights off at 11:00 pm and while the plants slept, I dreamed of how beautiful my little seedlings would look the next morning.

What I saw was totally unexpected. A mouse had gotten into the seedlings and made a mess of them. I was discouraged almost to the point of giving up. But, all was not lost. The next night, after turning off the lights, we moved the plants to a mouse free environment and put some mouse poison in the room where the lights are. This morning when I put the plants back under the lights I noticed that the mouse poison was all gone, hopefully along with the mice.

While waiting for the seedlings to get their second set of leaves, my web search on how to repot led me to this site. After reading through all the ideas I think I'll go with the 50/50 mix of worm poop and potting soil in the 16 oz red plastic cups with holes poked in the bottoms.

In one of the posts I read that you should introduce your plants to the outdoors on nice days so as to avoid hardening off. I think that is a good idea.

Now, only time will tell. Since I am a novice, I can only take advice, not give it. And I really appreciate all of these tomato enthusiasts for their expertise.

Just wanted to share my setup!
{{gwi:1289732}}

Hi stquack. Thanks for the picture. I'd like to know a little more about your setup. Are those peat pots? Is that aluminum foil in the back? Did you start your seeds directly into larger pots? Most advice I have gotten is to start the seeds in small pots and transplant. When will you plant them into the garden? What kind of mix did you use? Do you water from underneath? I'd really appreciate your feedback.

Justmadeitjackie

The pots are pressed cardboard from lowes the aluminum stuff in the back is silver bubble wrap from the same place it comes in 12" 18"24"48" I start my seeds in little peat starters the one with 50 per tray. After they all sprout i wait about one week and pot them in 5" pots with reg potting soil for veg and flowers. As for water i flood them the first and only water them from the bottom after!

Stquack:) Thank you for the info. I was just at Lowes last evening and talked to a man in the gardening dept. He said I have started my tomatoes too early for our zone. I live in the mountains of Western North Carolina. He told me I should transplant into composted cow manure and humas only and not add fertilizer, so that my plants don't grow too fast. He said he doesn't plant his tomatoes until after Memorial Day.

I'll look for the silver bubble wrap next time. I assume it is to reflect light from your flourescent bulbs, right? My little seedlings look like they are just getting their second set of leaves. About how long did it take for your seedlings to get their second set of leaves? I planted my on February 19th, 10 days ago. I hope you don't mind my questions.

I have many years experience and can recommend the following:

1. Buy good seed from a reputable dealer.

2. I always use Miricle grow potting soil. It has never failed.

3. Plant 10-12 seed in any kind of pot or cup. It really makes no difference as you will repot as soon as you have at least two real leaves on the seedlings.

4. Repot the seedlings in peat pots. Go deep into the soil in the pot and only let leaves show at the top. In other words put the root all the way to the bottom of the peat pot.

5. Place the repotted seedlings in a south window and under a grow light. On sunny days you will not need the light, but I turn the grow light on all night. The light hangs about 18 inches above the seedlings.

6. I only have room for 8 plants althouth I will propogate about 80-100 seed. I normally have 8 different varities.

7. The planting date is real important. I wait until Good Friday or when the pecan trees bloom, whichever occurs first.

8. About a week before planting I select my best 16 plants and harden them off by letting them live outside in the daytime. I plant the 8 (one of each variety) best plants directly in the garden while still in the peat pots.

9. I then plant the next 8 best in one quart pots to use as substitutes in case something bad happens. I keep these until I'm sure that the original plantings have survived. It's always good to have this backup plan!

Justmadeitjackie

No problem, The key that i've found is to keep the plants cooler than room temp. It lets the roots grow and slows down my plants. I keep my plants stockey and strong With lots of light and cool temps.

Last year is started my seeds first week of March and things went great but I still had room for bigger plants. So I added 3 weeks. I have a large cold frame which I plant my peppers in the ground in mid April about one and a half months early! I tried tomatoes but they grew to tall for my cold frame
LAST YEARS PICTURES
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These are my 12 day old tomato seedlings. This is my first time ever to plant tomatoes. I am relying on advise from the contributors of this forum. For the past two days I have been putting them out in the sun because the weather has been so beautiful here in Western North Carolina. When it gets dark I put them back under the flourscent lights until 11:00pm. As you can see in the picture, they are just developing new leaves. Can someone tell me how big the new leaves should be before I repot?

{{gwi:1289739}}

justmadeitjackie,

Your seedlings look great. I am starting tomatoes from seed for the first time ever this year.

Thanks to all for your contributions to this thread. Lots of good info to get a new gal started.

Greetings to everyone getting ready to plant their gardens this year. I just wanted to give an update on the seedlings pictured above in my post of March 2. Those seedlings were successfully repotted and here they are at 5 weeks, 4 days old. They are getting quite tall and can't be planted in the garden for at least another month. On days that are at least 50 degrees they stay outside to soak up some some sun and/or rain. They developed signs of flea beetles on their first set of leaves, so I sprayed them with Neem Oil (available at Lowe's). I am keeping an eye on the new leaves that develop hoping the Neem Oil did the trick. So far, so good!

Hey, stquack, you have been such a help to me. Tell me what you think of my "babies". Do they look pretty good to you?

peeroette, how are your tomatoes doing?

{{gwi:1289741}}{{gwi:1289742}}

Great looking plants. You have done a great job. Your plants will be plenty big by planting time. With a few that isn't so bad. It causes me more trouble with 300 hundred or more. So I planted later this year. I'm shooting for 6-8" plants by May 10th. Like I mentioned above it is what works for you. I know a truck gardener who transplants outside when his has the second full set of leaves and just starting their 3rd set of true leaves. He feels they do better than the bigger plants. I've used the plastic cups with great success. I'm going to try the cowpots this year. I personally don't like peat pots but like mentioned above many do. I keep the shop lights about 1-2" above the plants and have great plants. My utility room gets cooler which tends to make them stockier and keeps them from growing so leggy and fast. We all have learned what works for us. And after 40 plus years I still experiment but usually find what I've been doing works as well if not better. I am trying a bag of the MG Organic potting mix this year as comparison to my commercial mix. I have never saw any benefit to the other MG products but always willing to give most things a trial. Best of luck the rest of the season. You have a great start with such nice plants. Jay

Jay

So glad to hear from you. This is my first year to grow tomato plants, so I am just learning what "works for me". I really appreciate the imput from veteran tomato growers like yourself. Yes, I have heard that smaller plants do much better when finally put in the garden. That does worry me since I have 80+ plants started. I got over anxious and started the seeds in late February and our last frost date is mid-May. Ugh! One person told me I could cut them off and stick the tops in water to root, but I am not looking forward to doing that with 80+ plants.
When they were just baby seedlings, I kept them under shop lights 1-2" above for 16 hours a day. Do they still need the shop lights at the size mine are now? Jackie

Great looking plants! I love those Solo cups. However, you'll have to move them to even larger pots if you still have 7 weeks left. Also, pinch off any open flowers.

BTW, the smaller plants (about the size your's are now) usually do better for commercial farmers because of their planting equipment does the best job with that size. For us, older transplants give earlier yields.