I suppose I could just buy more, but I'm a miser and, deep down, I suppose I kind of resent it...To me (unless ya derive satisfaction in such an experiment), such an activity is penny wise and pound foolish. You may get something very close (or even identical) to the F1 SG at F2, but it is probably not very likely. The expense and time invested in growing seedlings and nurturing the plants in the field dwarfs the expense of buying fresh seed every few years. And if the fruits from the F2 plants do not rather closely match the F1 plants' fruits for taste, etc., in my view, ya really have wasted resources as opposed to conserving them.

Of course, it is remotely possible that, here and there, an F2 plant will produce fruits (different than the F1) that you like better than those of the F1 plants.

Reg

i let some sungold f2 volunteers grow a few years ago. got a mix of yellow, red, orange fruit. the best tasting was a small red one. the others had a range of flavors from just ok to pretty good. i have f3 seeds saved but haven't pursued it any further. myself, if i want sungold type fruit, i'd just buy a pack of seeds. one pack has lasted me 5 or 6 years now. at todays current price in the tgs catalog of 3.35/pack thats a cost of 0.56 cents/year if starting 5 seeds. not worth griping about. if you want to grow out your saved seed, thats up to you. you will get tomatos of eating quality. most will not be like sungold though. how much time and garden space are you willing to devote to growing out saved seeds. it could be a 5 or 6 year project.

keith in calumet

Keith, funny but I once had a volunteer f2 sungold that had orange and red tomatoes on the same plant...no yellows.

Doof, Value Seeds sells 10 seeds of sungold f1 for .99. Shipping is 1.99. I've ordered seeds from them before
and haven't had a problem. They don't have much variety but they do have a few other veggies.

Here is a link that might be useful: Value Seeds

Ah, okay. I get the drift. Bad idea.

As for how our plants die in SoCal 10a... Uh, they didn't this year. I picked some Sungolds this morning, which was why I got to thinking about whether I ought to save a few seeds. The plants are doing just fine right now. The cooler weather seems to agree with them. I have them surrounded by water battles to keep them warmer at night, but this has been a VERY mild winter, with nightly lows very steady around 45 degrees. But my tomato plants always get mangey looking well before winter gets here from dead branches and leaves, and you get fewer tomatoes (and not as big or tasty) during winter, and they take a lot longer to ripen. I'm planning to pull most of my tomato plants out, a month from now, (about ten of Sungold, Matt's Wild Cherry, Snow White) to make room for my new ones that are under lights right now. (Black Pineapple, Brandywine, Burgundy Traveler, Gardener's Delight, Galina's, Paul Robeson, Crimson Cushion, Aunt Gertie's Gold, Indian Stripe, something else...)

If you don't want to pay for shipping and handling, and you live near an OSH'S, they might carry Renee's Garden seeds of either just Sungold or a mix of 3 cherry toms that contains Sungold. RG seeds are also found at some of the smaller nurseries.
I plan to take cuttings for the first time this year on Cherokee Purple instead of growing it from seed, as one plant is still alive and I wanted to try it. Why not try that just for the heck of it, you'll get free plants...

I can afford them. I just thought it would be cool to grow out the F2's if they weren't radically different. Since they are, let's forget it.

A couple of years ago, I grew out some saved seeds from Sunsweet store-bought cherry tomatoes, the ones they sell at the supermarket in those red sleeves. I assume those are some kind of proprietary F1. Googling around comes up with the name Desert Glory for it. Anyway, the saved F2 seeds from Sunsweet produced very good cherry tomatoes, not significantly different from the originals. I just wondered if the trend might hold true with one generation removed on the Sungolds.

I bought a pack of sungolds and only intend to use a few, I could send you a few, Doof... :)

Just give me your e mail and we'll hook up.

Sungold Select II is an OP version of Sungold that Reinrard Kraft selected out from the F1.

It is very, very close to SG F1 in terms of size, productivity, growth habit, shape, and color.
The taste is very good, but not exactly like the F1.
A co-worker actually prefers the OP version as it has more of
a "tomatoey" taste in contrast to the F1's "fruity" taste.

I'm not sure if there's a commercial source of SG Select II yet though.....

Lee

" ... the saved F2 seeds from Sunsweet produced very good cherry tomatoes, not significantly different from the originals. I just wondered if the trend might hold true with one generation removed on the Sungolds."

Doof,

This subject has been much discussed at Garden Web tomato forum and other places. Apparently the consensus is that Sungold grow-outs vary wildly from the original. Some folks have found it otherwise, but most concur ... hence "consensus."

Previous discussions include comments about larger sizes, smaller sizes, red, orange, gold, less fragrant leaves, etc. All but a very few say the flavor does not compare to the F1.

On the other side of the coin, several discussions of grape types like Santa Sweets, et al, seem to end up with a consensus that the grow-outs generally resemble the F1 closely. Why? Possibly because the two parent lines of the Santa types, Sunsweet types, whatever, are very similar to begin with. Many times, breeders are crossing two parent lines that while nearly identical to the eye, each carry specific traits that the breeder wishes to incorporate into the F1.

Maybe jointed pedicels, or jointless pedicels, or another trait that provides is what the breeder is looking for in growth habit, harvest, storage, ripening characteristics, disease resistance, etc. To the untrained eye, maybe these seemingly insignificant differences are not noticed in the subsequent segregations or recombinations.

Apparently, with Sungold the parents are so diverse in some respects that the traits stand a far smaller chance of recombining to anything closely resembling the original F1, and just fall out all over the map ... especially at the point only one generation (F2) removed.

doof

go ahead and save some Sun Gold F2 seed. Like Lee says it isnt exactly like the original but it is still very good. It will likely be far better than most cherries available. Especially those of colors other than red.

No one has yet mentioned the two stable OP versions of Sungold that were developed by Reinhard Kraft in Germany.

One is called Sungold Select and the second is Sungold Select II and quite a few folks feel that the Sungold Select II is pretty darn close to the hybrid.

The information that I gave out publicly about Santa F1 was done with the permission of Andrew Chu who was the person who got that variety from the KNown-You Seed Co in Taiwan and it was he who revived the so called grape tomato concept with that variety, who told me that 99/100 saved seeds came true and that the off type was round and had a lower sugar content.

I did share that with folks at places where I post about 5 years ago now.

Carolyn

Santa F1 was done with the permission of Andrew Chu who was the person who got that variety from the KNown-You Seed Co in Taiwan and it was he who revived the so called grape tomato concept with that variety...I do not understand the hype surrounding "Santa Sweets." Mayhaps, can you say Procacci Bros Inc ?

About 2 years ago, my father's wife bought a pint of "Santas." Expensive @ $3+ or so if I correctly recall. They looked like red grape tomatoes, totally blemish-free. I happened to be around at the time and tried a few. They were sour bullets... not fit for human consumption. Maybe she purchased the pint from a bad batch, I do not know. But what I do know is that I have no intention to buy a pint of Santa Sweets with the idea of saving some of their seeds, unless I can first sample one fruit in the container.

Reg

I do not understand the hype surrounding "Santa Sweets." Mayhaps, can you say Procacci Bros Inc ?

No Reg, I'm not going to bring up the Procacci Bros as I( have before b'c that also leads me into Ugly and Ugly Ripe and I prefer to try not to use the Procaaci, so I don't get angry about the whole situation.

And remember that Santa F1 existed long before the P.s cuased all the trouble. TGS was one of the last places where Santa F1 was offered/

Santas are grown in different areas of the country, both indoors and outdoors and also in MExico, so it's possible you did get some that were subpar.

When they're good they're very good and when_________________________, well you can finish the rest. LOL

Carolyn

I saved some SunGold seeds from toms I got at the farmer's market. I plan on trying a few. As reginald_25 knows, I can't pass up a chance to grow little toms. :)

Abby

When they're good they're very good and when_________________________, well you can finish the rest...OK, here goes: "When they're good they're very good and when they came from Joe Procacci FL tomato farms in winter, they may be not so good."

Was that what you were looking for ?

Reg

How about "when they're good they're very good and when they're bad ... oh they're oh so very bad, bad, bad!!!" Isn't that how the song goes? Hey, it's true, I've had some Santa Sweets in the clam shell packs that were excellent and some that were sour, shrivelled, and just plain nasty.

Both Renee's and Botanical Interest currently market Sungold seeds, but of course, you won't necessarily find them everywhere these brands are sold.

The Botanical Interest are priced at $2.99 for 40g, "enough to plant 8 plants," and the Renee's are $2.69 for 15-20 seeds.

I bought some, but I'm going to be planting them very carefully.

Anybody have Sungold Select II seed they want to trade? Or a source to buy it? I'd like to eventually wean myself from this particular monopoly. (But I also love this variety).