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2 seedling questions
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Posted by elskunkito (My Page) on Sun, Jan 31, 10 at 17:57
| 1) At what size is the danger of dampening off 'pretty dang low'?
2) Sort of an unanswerable question, but I'll ask anyway.
I have 3 trays off 36 starts. the seeds in one tray sprouted way later than the others and the plants grow much slower.
Identical p[lainting time, seeds, watering, light, temperature, containers.
The only difference is the potting soil.
Yeah, not seed starting mix, I know. Kick me.
What in, or not in, the potting soil could make plants
start later and grow much slower?
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Follow-Up Postings:
RE: 2 seedling questions
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| Poor drainage maybe. Not the proper balance of nutrients. You can transplant them into something better; it is not too late if they aren't dead. |
RE: 2 seedling questions
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- Posted by anney Georgia 8 (My Page) on
Sun, Jan 31, 10 at 18:44
| Totally off-topic, and apologies, but has Fannie Mae hired Jesus to help with the mortgages? See ad at top of page that occasionally has a picture that sure looks like traditional pictures of him. Who and what is that picture supposed to represent? |
RE: 2 seedling questions
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| I don't see the ad; I guess my computer blocks it. Not a bad idea, miracles are needed. |
RE: 2 seedling questions
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It totally makes a difference in potting soil... The better the soil, the better the plant.... I'm totally convinced after 5 years of greenhouse growing that the best thing to start tomatoes -or any plant in- is premier promix plug mix with biofungicide. I clean my plug trays in physan 20 solution and use only promix pgx plug mix with biofungicide and I actually haven't seen damping off in my starts at all. I used to use various other soil mixes and had all kinds of problems. The ones you get at Menards and Lowe's--My hubby and I nickname them now "soil of death". A lot of what they sell for potting mix compacts down when you water it so that there's no air space at all. Terrible stuff! you want a potting soil that's light and fluffy even when fully saturated. That's the key to good growing. Sorry,but I really believe if you want a good plant you have to start with good soil 100% of the time. And now your little experiment at home is showing you too. Even though you didn't mean to have an experiment. |
RE: 2 seedling questions
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| Go with what you have this year. Pot up at 1st true leaves, in a good POTTING SOIL. most will make it. next year practice what you have learned. Good Luck Bill |
RE: 2 seedling questions
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Clarification: None of my starts have symptoms of dampening off yet. Even the wimpy ones in the krappy soil. I was hoping to get an approximate time and/or size when I can stop worrying about the little fellers/fellerettes. The 'good' soil ones are 3" and starting to sprout the 3rd/4th set of leaves. The 'bad' soil ones are just starting to squeak out their first true leaves. I remained shocked and amazed at the difference in size. If you plant them in a medium with 0 nutrition they would still out grow the little ones. I wonder what's in the evil soil thats slowing the little ones down. |
RE: 2 seedling questions
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I was hoping to get an approximate time and/or size when I can stop worrying about the little fellers/fellerettes. About damp-off? Theoretically not until well established in the garden, Sorry. 2 types of damp-off, one affects young seedlings the other teenage/adult transplants. Key: good air circulation and above all avoid excessive watering. Too wet soil in a stagnant air environment is the primary cause of damp-off and 90% of us over-water seedlings 98% of the time. ;) I wonder what's in the evil soil thats slowing the little ones down. Greater soil compaction = less air for the rootlets = greater moisture retention = greater chance of root rot development = slower growth for both roots and top growth. Like Sandy said, a light, airy mix that doesn't compact makes a big difference. ProMix BX is great, with or without the added fungicide (I don't use the fungicide) but other brands are also available. Dave |
RE: 2 seedling questions
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| elskunkito, Any possibility that the sickly tray was packed with year old potting soil while the healthy tray used new potting soil? I made this mistake several years ago and had a terrible sprout. Now I just throw any leftover directly out onto the garden and let nature clean her up over the winter. Think about how the critters respond to a nice warm moist media, with a measured amount of nutrient in place, and pretty well sealed away from sunlight and fresh air. By the way that Pro Mix stuff sounds pretty good and I will see if I can find some. |
RE: 2 seedling questions
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| I have used year old Miracle Grow without any problems. I have used the ProMix before and haven't seen any difference between the Promix and Miracle Grow. If any the Miracle Grow plants were better, possibly because of the time release fertilizer. I don't use year old that has been opened, but I do buy in the fall for the next year. I usually get my plants started before I can buy the bags of Miracle Grow from my usual supplier (Sams). |
RE: 2 seedling questions
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| I always reuse my seed starting mix, mostly to fill the pots I am transplanting my seedlings to. If I plant some seeds and they don't germinate I will stir in a little fresh seed starting mix and reuse it for starting seeds too. But over the years I am getting better at starting seeds, even old ones from previous years, so I don't usually have to do that too much. My main mistakes as a beginner were over watering and over fertilizing. I also cover my seeds with little patches of pure vermiculite which makes it easier for the seedlings to break through to the surface and helps with damping off as it is sterile. |
RE: 2 seedling questions
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- Posted by anney Georgia 8 (My Page) on
Wed, Feb 3, 10 at 10:28
| I have found that if you leave ProMix BX out on the deck all summer without closing it securely, when you reach in to grab a handful of the mix to fill a six-inch pot, you'll end up with a terrified field mouse mamma running up your sleeve and 4 or 5 wriggling blind pink mouse babies in your hand, the rest immediately smothered by the fluffy mix. I always use my left-over ProMix the next year to start seeds without any problems. Maybe that's because I close it up now and it freezes along with the winter weather. |
RE: 2 seedling questions
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| One time I bought many bags of a brand of potting mix that I normally use on sale for $4 for 2 cubic feet. The plastic on the bags was rotten and would tear easily. It was old and had been out in the weather. It wouldn't grow anything. I think the kind of potting mix that has little sticks in it starts to break down making something that inhibits growth. |
RE: 2 seedling questions
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| [i]> Any possibility that the sickly tray was packed with year old potting soil while the healthy tray used new potting soil?[/i] Yep, it's possible. its 6 months old at least. Mght have been left outside. It was miracle grow and some other brand. I don't know which is which. |
RE: 2 seedling questions
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| What Sandy from Indiana said could have ended this thread. Great post. All the rest is fluff. GGG |
RE: 2 seedling questions
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| What I said ain't fluff! It is a statement of experience which you can decide to take advantage of or reject. Larry |
RE: 2 seedling questions
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| GGG probably true but it is winter and the alternative for me is to clean my house. I am sending you stink bugs even though you are right. I liked the mouse story; I am sending anney Paranoid Puffy who was crunching a rat yesterday. |
RE: 2 seedling questions
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| No damp off yet. The stragglers continue to straggle. Severely. Should I feed them? If so what? I have fish fertilizer. And worm pooh juice. But IIRC you shouldn't fertilize starts. I don't think I am over watering as the other starts are quite happy with the same watering regimen. Compaction is not an issue. It's quite fluffy. Something evil is in that soil, or the lack of something good. The wimpy ones still have no true leaves or are just squeaking them out. An alternative is to rip the starts out of the soil and replant them into something else. Please advise (Some of these I don't have seeds for any more, so replanting is not an option) I have to do something. |
RE: 2 seedling questions
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- Posted by anney Georgia 8 (My Page) on
Sun, Feb 7, 10 at 8:50
| Is your light strong enough and close enough to the seedlings? Insufficient light makes them skinny and leggy. I'd carefully set them into tall containers, like OJ cartons or 2-liter soda bottles with tops removed, burying them with good soil up to the top growth. Those buried spindly stems will strengthen and send out roots. And KEEP THE LIGHTS CLOSE TO YOUR SEEDLINGS! |
Here is a link that might be useful: Leggy seedling discussion
RE: 2 seedling questions
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- Posted by bets z5A ID (My Page) on
Sun, Feb 7, 10 at 9:30
| Anney is right: transplant them. As soon as possible. Leaving behind as much of the bad potting soil as you can. Even if you tear off most of the roots in the old potting medium, the plants will recover in good potting medium. And do like Anney says and plant them right up to the bottom leaves. They will root along the stems and be much stronger for it. Bets |
RE: 2 seedling questions
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| The year that I had the terrible sprout using last years potting soil I went through the identical string of symptoms your plants seem to show. I can tell you what I did but I'm not sure that's possible anymore: I dusted my trays with 5% Captan dust. I don't know if it can be bought anymore. I believe Maneb or Mancozeb are both available today as is Daconil--all of these are fungacides. But what you are looking for is both soil and folliage activity and I'm not sure which will work down in the root zone. There is another bio type fungacide called Actinovate which I use both as a soil drench when planting and then later as a folliage spray. It works very well. You can find the Actinovate by Googling. Another thing you might try-and this certainly can't hurt you even if it doesn't work and you then go on to try any of the above-is to mix up a teaspoon of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) in a quart of water and water the tray with it. Spray it on the folliage also with a hand pump sprayer. Actually a pretty good home style remedy! You could do a couple treatments with this. You need to check with your ag agent to insure Maneb, Mancozeb, Daconil, and Actinovate are all approved in your state for tomatoes (they are here in Pennsylvania and Ohio), and the agent may be able to offer some other suggestions. Larry |
RE: 2 seedling questions
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| Transplant them. It is the soil. You did an experiment and one of three is not doing well. You said the difference is the soil. Little plants transplant easily. If it were fungus they'd already be dead. |
RE: 2 seedling questions
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I bought some of this Pro-Mix BX with biofungicide that is supposed to help prevent damping off by using some kind of bacteria that attacks fungus and other pathogens such as fusarium. It is very expensive, I hope the claims are not just hype. Supposedly once the roots are inoculated they stay that way for life. So far I haven't noticed any damping off but maybe I wouldn't have had any anyway. If anyone ever did side by side comparisons of this stuff against regular Pro-Mix BX what were your results? Here is their ad that claims its the greatest thing since sliced bread. PRO-MIX 'BX' with BIOFUNGICIDE is a "General Purpose" peat-based professional growing medium, designed for the cultivation of horticultural plants. This formulation is lightweight, uniform and provides necessary conditions to establish plant growth. This high-quality product is suitable for a wide variety of plants. Enriched with Subtilex®, a high-performance biofungicide that prevents root diseases caused by pathogens, such as Pythium, Fusarium and Rhizoctonia. Prevents damping-off and controls root pathogens such as Fusarium, Pythium and Rhizoctonia Patented bacterial strain of Bacillus subtilis*- MBI600 Better performance and shelf-life over fungal inoculants Improved germination and survivability of transplants Enhanced plant vigor and reduced incidence of disease Compatible with a wide range of chemical pesticides Reduced management costs for disease control *SUBTILEX is a registered trademark of/and the strain of Bacillus subtilis is a product of Becker Underwood, Inc. |
RE: 2 seedling questions
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| @sandy you were right more or less. The soil was light and fluffy on top. Seemed dry even. 1 inch down it was a soggy compact mess. The plants are much happier in their new, fluffier home. |
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