In my experience, Brandywine, KBX, and Cherokee Purple are the most productive of the varieties you have named. Btw, the correct spelling is Kosovo, a wedge shaped pink heart variety. Cherokee green is a decent producer some years, but not always.

The rule of thumb I use to improve production is to improve the environment first. Most garden soil needs heavy amendment to produce a good crop of tomatoes. This does NOT mean just the surface layer. If you really want to pump out the tomatoes, you have to work organic material into the soil at lease 12 inches and preferably 16 or more inches deep. In addition, the soil should be tested and lime and basic slag added if needed to correct soil acidity and add micronutrients.

Address culture specifics such as ensuring each plant has enough space for maximum sunlight exposure and so that air can flow easily through the leaves. From the pic above, the plants are too close together. Rampant indeterminate varieties need a minimum of 12 and preferably 16 or more square feet per plant for optimum growth. Set up an irrigation system so you can keep them watered as needed.

Finally, pick some productive varieties. Some of the varieties you have listed are excellent for flavor but weak on production. Anna Russian for example rarely produces more than 10 fruit for me, but I love the flavor. Here are some productive varieties in the same general classes as you have named.

Green Giant - very large potato leaf green when ripe tomatoes
Druzba - medium large nearly round slicer tomatoes with intense flavor
Black From Tula - arguably the best production combined with decent flavor in a black tomato
Eva Purple Ball - will surprise you with very heavy production of round 2.5 to 3.5 inch pink tomatoes.
IMO, there are no really good white tomatoes. White Oxheart and White Queen are about as close as I've found.
Yoder's German Yellow and Dr. Wyche are good yellow varieties.

DarJones

Great info from Darrel above. Too often we link productivity to variety when it really needs to be linked to growing conditions like soil improvement - pH monitoring, tilth and nutrient levels and types, drip irrigation, auto fertigation, spacing, supports, etc.

Your garden looks like an ideal size and shape for drip irrigation and fertigation and they would eliminate some of your problems. You could also consider raising it 1 stone higher all around - esp. the front so those plants aren't right at ground level. Or it looks like you could go deeper in the back and raise the front without needing more blocks in the back. Your plants are a bit crowded too IMO.

I'd add a ditto for Eva Purple Ball, Tula and Druzba but wouldn't waste my time and effort on any of the whites. THe others you mention are great tasting and I grow several of them but just for me, not for any noted production.

Are you interested only in OP varieties or would you consider a couple of hybrids too? There are some great hybrids out there too.

Dave

It is because I think it is growing conditions that I mentioned all that. I will address the pH, I think that could have a large effect on unlocking available nutrients. I live alone and can't really produce large amts of compost but right now the garden has a winter covering of chopped up dried leaves that will be tilled in in spring. The raised bed is a work in progress and not full of soil, which is why I can bring more in, fill in the lower end and level off the garden more. That was my plan in making the raised bed. I may have to add another layer of stone, but I will see how it is first when I actually fill the stone that is there. It is hard to see, but even 3 years ago (this was my 2009 garden) if you look closely you can see that the plants at the very top are much smaller. This has progressed so that now there is a noticeable difference in size almost half way down. I guess the soil test will tell a lot, but unless I have several done in different parts of the garden instead of mixing samples together, which is how I was told to do it, I won't be able to tell why one part of the garden is having more of a problem.

I actually thought the varieties, although not the most productive, should have given decent production. I have heard heart varieties are not tops for that, though.

The higher end of the garden faces South, so getting smaller plants there doesn't seem to indicate a problem with sun exposure.

I am going to TRY to be better about watering. It is frustrating trying to water on a hill. I tend to dig wells round each plant and fill them up 2-3 times for each plant. I have not noticed plants wilting or I would water more, but I did notice once that productivity improved after watering so at least that time it was probably contributing.

I hate watery, over watered tomatoes so I am sure I am guilty of erring on the side of less is more. My tomatoes have been the least tasty during very rainy years.

I do use a mantis on the garden each year, although the last couple I have not been going as deep because I had begun to read that it can actually destroy the structure of the soil so I started not tilling as deeply, maybe 6-8" instead of 12.

One more question. What type easily available organic matter can I purchase in large enough amts to add? Like I said, I don't produce enough myself, and the fall leaves are probably making the soil too acidic already, so I hate to add something like peat moss (also not hugely enviromentally friendly).

OK, 2 more questions. Maybe 3. :) Can I do a soil test as soon as the ground thaws, after I till in the leaves, before? Once I get the soil tested, how long after adding lime before I see results in the pH? We have a fairly short season here so April into mid to late may is about all I have to get the soil into shape before the tomatoes go in.

What type easily available organic matter can I purchase in large enough amts to add?

Well compost of course but it comes in lots of different qualities so sniff and look at it carefully first. Then there are aged manures if you can find someone who stockpiles it. Otherwise you are stuck with buying in bags. Chopped straw is wonderful stuff, same with hay, especially if you can chop it small. Folks close to the seashore use lots of seaweed and kelp, some down south use milo, it all depends on what is available around you but you have to think outside the box.

But one of the very best things is a cover crop planted in the fall and tilled in in the spring - a green manure crop. Depending on your weather you may still have time to plant something now and get some benefit from it when tilled in and then plan for a good cover crop next fall.

Then there is the mulch you put on in the summer. If you use straw it can break down over each winter and be tilled in with the cover crop in the spring.

Then there are all the various meals - alfalfa, cottonseed, etc.

As to the pH, the most useful is a native soil test. Know what you have to work with to begin with and then go from there. In established beds then yes it is a multiple sample mixed together test for an average pH. If it is ok then it will basically be ok for all - especially in small beds like yours since the roots wander. If out of kilter treat it as out of kilter for the whole bed.

You can test at anytime. pH won't change that much that quickly and neither will P or K or micros. Only N varies quickly. If it tells you to add lime then it will be 3-6 months before you'll see results. But you don't have to wait till April. You can plop all this stuff on the bed anytime and let the elements work on it until tilling time. The garden micro herd does its best prep work during the off-season. :)

Dave

I'd suggest moving up you harvest by 30+ days. Here is what I do:

1. Plant my seed indoors now (early Jan)

2. Pot up 3 times to half gallon pots and the plants will be 3+ feet tall by April 15th with small pea tomatoes and plenty of flowers

3. Put outside in ground on April 15-ish, under a cloche (plastic hoop structure)

4. Take off cloche on Mothers Days

5. Pick your first red tomato on the 4th of July (on a lucky year it can be Memorial Day)

I raise about 35 3-foot plants and put 20 in the ground. My yields vary from 20-50 tomatoes per plant depending on the weather that year. I am in NJ, if you want to keep in touch I can get you some plants. I also know of a place in Clifton NJ who raises plants very early and has "beautiful" 3+ foot plants at the end of April and sells them for 3 for $10. Really hard to find that size specially for that price.

Of course, everything depends on the weather (early 90+ deg F days will mess up polination)

Tom

Sue, I've grown all that you list and also introduced Orange Minsk, seeds from Andrey in Minsk, Belarus and it's always been a great producer.

But just think back to last summer and remember the heavy rains, tropical storms, blasting heat in June, and all that we had. With that kind of weather there was no way that almost any variety could produce maximally.

I don't know how much it would help for me to list other varieties, which I could, because I do think it was the terrible weather we had in our area last summer that affected fruit production.

Plant your same varieties again this summer and with a good summer I don't think you'd have to worry about production.

(The ones I did not get much from were: Orange Minsk, Anna Russian, Kosavo, Great white, KBX, Cherokee Green and Cherokee Purple. I got the most from Wes, Brandwine and Rief Red Heart.)

AS noted, it's Kosovo, and also Brandywine, and I've grown all that you mention and they always have been very productive, even Anna Russian which apparently doesn't do that well where Fusion gardens in Alabama. Of course I'd never grow Great White again, b'c with large whites I've found that the only one that does have some taste is White Queen.

I'm a bit leery about what your lawn service results indicated, when they didn't even tell you what the pH was and then suggested three separate applications of lime.

Tomatoes grow well at a rather large pH range from about 4 to about 7, and considering that pH is based on a log scale, that's a huge range.

Would you consider having your local cooperateve extension redo the pH tests so you know exactly what the pH is? When they do it they assess more than just pH and then suggest to you what you might need.

Carolyn

Thanks Carolyn. I do believe they told me what the pH was in the letter they sent, but I can't remember what it was. Budget cuts did away with my local cooperative extension about 5 years ago, its a 45 minute drive or so the the university, or you have to do it by mail. I always mean to, but I just haven't gotten it done in the past. My biggest concern is the difference from one end of the garden to the other. I don't have a very large garden and it really cuts into it. The ground is frozen solid right now, would need a pick axe to get a sample. I think I better wait. Since I am planning to bring in more compost, and it might change the soil that is there, I think maybe I should bring it in as early as possible, as soon as they start selling it in early spring, till it in as early as possible (hope for a not a ton of rain in early spring), and send out a sample. But its a lot to get done in early spring, not to mention getting anything significant done to change the soil in time to improve my results this year. If it was just the weather the last 2 years, at least getting the soil in better shape can't hurt. It would be nice if that was all it was. I didn't know tomatoes did well in that wide a pH range.

Although tomatoes handle lower range pH its usually the absolute nutrients (namely Calcium and Magnesium) that will usually cause problems if in short supply. Blossom end rot is usually due to water problems but can be traced to lack of those nutrients in certain cases.

I'm going to recommend "A 360" and make suggestions that have worked for me. Naturally you won't construct a greenhouse over your bed which IMO would double your harvest, especially in a year like 2011, but there are many things that you might be willing to do that aren't very extreme.

First, forget the notion of larger spacing. How can fewer plants increase your yield? Instead, "Sucker" plants to have less lateral branching per plant. That will maximize the ratio of root to plant within the space you are working with and serve to keep plant disease problems down.

Secondly, I like the prospects of heirloom tomato varieties as much as anyone; I grow close to 200 varieties. But if yield is what you want most hybrids will easily outproduce heirloom varieties, especially in adverse conditions. Give a proven performer like "Big Beef" a try.

Third, tomatoes will almost always reward you by followup fertilizing with the 2 mainly depleated nutrients- Nitrogen and Potassium. As a general rule supplement these at time of first fruit set and again each month thereafter. You could invest in both soil and leaf tissue tests to confirm that need but it is almost always confirmed.

Lastly, a simple drip watering system might reward you from different standpoints. If you water regularly but too shallow the bulk of the water will not get where the plants need it. Possibly the plants uphill are suffering due to simple water-gravity principle. Drip tape will allow water to seep into soil near to those plants. It will also allow you to provide the nutrients mentioned to be administered in the water.

Don't get overly concerned about organic matter. I've never seen "Organic matter" listed as a plant nutrient. Keep in mind that whatever form of nitrogen you choose, the plant can only use the nitrate form.

Thank you for all your input. Although I do want to increase production it is not my highest priority, taste is. What I would like to do is make the entire garden equally productive, and maximize the production of the best tasting varieties. I tend to be a little impatient to get to tomato season, plus don't have a really long season so lengthening the season a little would be nice using simple inexpensive methods. I have tried the wall of waters and didn't care for them, they are a little messy and I mangled a couple plants trying to get them off afterwards. I like organic but do admit that the year I sprayed with Daconil I had much healthier plants much longer into fall which resulted in more tomatoes. Starting earlier is a possibility. Adjusting the slope of the hill to make watering easier by leveling off the garden seems smart. Making sure all the needed nutrients are available to the plants with soil amendments such as lime and fertilizer also seems like a good place to start. I have not had a large problem with BER, although I do get get a few each year. I wish there were "pop up" plastic frames that were inexpensive and easy to use and store that would make it easier to plant a little earlier that I could pop over each plant in case of an occasional late frost. That would make planting out in warm earlier weather a little less dangerous. Planting out in Early to mid May even, instead of near Memorial day, would be nice. We usually get some nice weather then, but short unpredictable frosts can be a problem and make it hard to plan on planting out before then.

I just spoke to my lawn care company and the pH in my lawn was 5.5 if that matters at all. It does make me wonder if I should just put down a bag of lime in garden asap and retest and adjust it later in spring. Seems unlikely it would end up being too alkaline given local soil conditions.

Too much lime at one time may cause plant injury also; thus the previous recommentation to apply in 3 intervals. Usually the limit is 3000 lb/acre (7 lb for a 10'x10' parcel) for a single application. What I do for my tunnels and advise that you sould do is purchase pelletized limestone (Dolomitic preferred)and spread it. It is more user friendly (less dust and actually smells sweet), more quickly soluble in soil and more likely available this time of year at Lowes and other hardware/garden centers.

At the per application rate you won't raise pH of your soil more than 1 pH unit but in the long range a buffer pH reading in addition to simple pH reading are needed to calculate lime needs. Or you could wait 6 months and have your lawn care co. test pH again and pretty much guess what you need to apply then.

I know lime takes time to work so I was just thinking it should be put in earlier rather than later. I am afraid if I wait until I can get a pH test from the garden in spring after adding the additional compost and tilling it in and getting a soil test it will not do much good for this years crop of tomatoes. I will have to calculate the amt per square foot and measure the garden, it likely won't be more than 10 lbs. so I think that is more like 1/4 bag. I also put chopped leaves into the garden each year and the garden is about 15' from a row of pine trees, both of which I believe cause more acidic soil. Since the leaves are removed from the lawn and they likely didn't choose a spot near the pine trees to test the pH, if anything I would not be surprised if the garden is even more acidic than that. There is just no way to be sure until I test it. But do I wait until then to do anything and waste the next several months but have a specific pH to treat?

I've been gardening for 40 years and observed over the years that beds I had double-dug and enriched, when looking at the soil at season's end, had soil looking pale and poor. Then I noticed some neglected areas with weeds piled up and saw rich black soil underneath. Ruth Stout was a pioneer in the no-till approach, which is also nature's approach- leaves and organic matter fall to the ground and are tilled in by earthworms, which have permanent burrows in some cases that are disturbed by digging and tilling. Nutrients are protected by mulches. Soil microorganisms, (bacteria [and then fungi] are actually the basis for all digestion and utilization of nutrients for all life forms) which occur in the top layers of soil, are disturbed by digging. Also I have both moles, which love newly dug holes in which to burrow and especially to expose roots of plants and sometimes heave them out of the ground, plus voles which use the mole holes and their own surface burrows to make a bed like Swiss cheese.

Therefore I dig only as much of a hole as it takes to plant the plant, and last year had great success lining the bottom and sides with lava rock which is scratchy and irritating to burrowers. I throw in some aged rabbit or poultry manure, some glacial rock dust full of trace minerals, some compost, some lime, and mix with the soil as I fill in. I put soaker hoses in all beds. Then I mulch later with aged grass clippings over the soaker hose to prevent water loss. Soaker hoses that are black recycled rubber used to last several to many years but seem to be getting thinner and break faster. I tried a nylon cloth one and it is doing well after 3 years. That makes watering a snap. I also bought a mechanical wind-up hose shutoff valve last year that should correct my forgetting to turn off the water for only $10 or less.

I extend seasons by using TunLCovers. Several companies sell them. I have bought them from Gurney's on their buy $50 save $25 sale which may be going on now but I couldn't find the date on their website, so basically 1/2 price.

They are double-walled plastic tunnels 18" tall and 18" long with wire ribs that push into the ground. When I plant out the tomatoes at the point they hit my lights, 11-12" tall, I sink them into the ground up to the leaves so it takes them a while to reach the top of the tunnel. By then it is usually warm enough to remove them. The added bonus is that I use the tunnels several weeks before planting to dry out the soil as it is usually raining daily at that point, so I can plant whenever I want.

I hope this helps. Nancy

Here is a link that might be useful: TunLCover

Thanks Nancy. I LOVE Ruth Stout and her videos. Can't get much simplier than that. :) Good reminder.

Oops, the TunLCovers are 18 feet long, not inches. The company that makes them also sells them. I don't know what they do to the plastic, but I'm still using all I have bought over the years and some before TunLCovers from another manufacturer, 10+ years old, the plastic is still good though the early ones' wire ribs are rusting out some. I do store them in a shed over the winter and don't leave them out in the sun when not in use. Squash and cucumbers really love growing under the tunnels as well, and increase rapidly in size when planted out a month earlier than I can set them out without cover. Slugs do like them too so I have to use iron phosphate slug bait inside.
Nancy

Yay, I went out and took soil samples today! The mild winter meant that the frozen soil apparently did not freeze very deep, and the mild weather for the last week means it is fully thawed. Unheard of in early February around here! Some of it is fairly wet, although not saturated. Other areas are crumbly and look ready for planting if I didn't know better.

Anyway, 50% there. Now I have to follow through and get them sent out.

A fellow gardener also mentioned that the top of the garden had not been "filled in" with compost since it is already at the highest point and might just need some of the compost and organic matter that the lower portion has gotten so much of in past.

The UCONN extension service recommended sampling problem areas separately, so I did. I assume if they don't come out much different I can attribute differences in productivity to water, weather and plant variety at that point.

I have really enjoyed watching this thread develop. It has inspired me to re-dig my tomato beds this year, going deeper and working more amendments in deeper down. It's to be a warm, dry week here so I hope to get a load of manure I've had aging all winter into those beds by Friday. I am hoping for a bigger crop this year! Keep us updated, sue!

Exciting to get into the garden in mid winter, Donnabaskets. I hope I am not the only one who learns something. I went wild and I am sending out 3 samples from my veg garden, one from herb garden and two from flower gardens that have not done quite as well as I had hoped. I hope it will let me come up with a plan to get things going asap.

In the picture I notice some trees.
Are any of those nut trees?
Especially walnut. Tomatoes do not grow well by walnut trees

Thanks, but no, they are not walnut trees. They are pine trees. I don't really consider those plants to be "growing poorly" but maybe I have lower expectations. I just want to get the most out of the plants as far as fruit is concerned as I can. There is one part of the upper part of the garden where the plants are smaller but not the entire garden.

Well, I got two of the three beds dug this week. It was such a pleasure to be outside! I think I had one of those "runners highs" going on when I came in dirty, tired, but exhilarated.

Hopefully, I can do bed #3 next week, after our first real cold snap of the winter passes...

Find out which tomato varieties work best in your natural soil. Also, where you buy your seeds is a factor. You could get a different seed from a different supplier of the same variety that produces totally different in your soil.

So, far I know that Eva Purple Ball and Paul Robeson do not like my soil....neither does Cherokee Purple. I will try a different seed supplier.

Fertilizers make a huge difference. I think Lime takes 3 months to settle in....but if you add it late..it might help with calcium uptake and prevent BER.

Good soil means stronger plants that are resistant to disease and insects. Also, well fed healthy seedlings to start off your growing season can't hurt your productivity. I personally know that how fertile your soil is makes a huge difference for me on the health and productivity of my plants.

This is disappointing. I thought UCONN's soil testing lab was pretty well established and widely used. I still have no results. They say turn around time in April and May is 1-2 weeks. I sent the soil out Feb. 7th, it should have been there the next day. CT is a pretty small state. :) I called last Tuesday and they said the results would be mailed out the next day. Obviously that did not happen. I wonder if anyone else has used them in the past. I thought this time of year they would be less busy and turn around time might be even quicker. Obviously, I thought wrong, lol. Don't think I would ever try this in spring when I was trying to get things into the ground. We are well into the third week.

I'm in CT as well and have used UCONN's soil lab successfully for at least the past 10 years. Never had a terrible time with turn around except last year during my son's science fair project when we sent samples up and the lab was closed because of all the snow.

Keep in mind that the post office is delaying all mail now, you need to give more time for everything unless you pay extra for it, wish they'd just stop Saturday delivery to cut cost but that's a whole nother subject, so the mail time to them would not be as quick as it would have been in years past and their results getting to you will be slower as well. The lab is closed on weekends, we had a holiday this past Monday and many schools have been closed for winter breaks one of these past two weeks. Not to be disrespectful at all, but I don't think I'd be upset unless it took yet another week.

I will be mailing my soil results to them on Monday. I've always been happy with them and will continue to use them. I hope you get your results soon.

Monday is the earliest I could get it and Tuesday will be 3 weeks. I found online that other than April and May, to expect it take 3-5 days. So 3 weeks IS a long time, even by their own estimates. If you think 4 weeks would be fairly normal for a return time, even in the off season, then I was definitely expecting too much. I dropped off an item to go from CT to MA last week and sent it first class and was told it should be there the next day, 2 days at the most.
Anyway, I am more disappointed that they said it would go out Wednesday and I doubt it did. Even with slower mail, more than 3 days within CT is unusual. I did a search and found out there is a state Agricultural Extension close by that does analysis and I might try them next time. I honestly had no idea it would take 3-4 weeks for a soil analysis, so thanks for letting me know.

I received my soil analysis results today. The surprise? Too much compost; and too alkaline, lol! Here goes:

pH 7.5
Calcium >4000 lbs/acre
Magnesium >500 lbs/acre
Phosphorus >100 lbs/acre
Potassium >600 lbs/acre
Boron 1.60 ppm
Copper 0.40 ppm
Iron 6.00 ppm
Manganese 103.00 ppm
Zinc 10.10 ppm
Aluminum 63 ppm

Soil Texture: Sandy Loam
Organic content: High

Note: Your soil nutrients are above optimum, mostly likely because too much fertalizer (either synthetic or organic) or compost was applied. Excessive nutrients can result in plant problems and also can contaminate ground and surface waters. Strive to keep nutrients in the optimum range.

Additional note: Do not any any lime, wood, ash or organic matter, composts or manure. Your pH is getting too high and nutrients are way above optimum! Too much organic matter in wet years can cause roots to rot and they willo not be able to take up nutrients and oxygen properly.

Fertilizer: Before planting incorporate 2 lbs of Nitrogen per 1000 sq ft. If plants develop pale green to yellow color, sidedress with 3 lbs of 10-6-4 or 10-10-10 per 100 foot of row in late June or early July.

ME: OK, no more loads of purchased compost delivered for some time! Since I need to add soil to level the bed, If I brought in just topsoil and tilled it into the bed, would that help? I am assuming that it would dilute the amt of organic matter and nutrients? I could then have it retested. There was very little difference between samples in the veg garden, same pH, amt of organic matter, etc., just a lot less Manganese in one part of the garden (the top area), which was 18.80. I guess I better rake up those dry leaves I put on top in the fall so I dont' add more organic matter, and stop putting leaves and compost in the garden.

wow amazing thread. I didn't see that coming. I would think that adding more soil would dilute the organic matter, but organic matter is naturally short lived in soils anyway. You might also just not till, which would allow the soil biota to increase and do thier job. Another thing you could do, which was suggested by the soil test, is to add N. Soil microbes often need nitrogen to break down woody debris, leaves etc. So adding N allows them the nutrients they need to do their job more efficiently. Good luck

Sue, those results are a complete surprise based on what you had described and you lawn pH results. Is there a chance that you applied lime or ashes prior to taking the soil test sample? Also I'm concerned about your methods (not described) for taking the sample. Remember that the results are only as good as the representativeness of the sample that you take.

Typically soil labs calculate results based on 2 million pound of soil per acre. That translates to 6 2/3" tillage depth. If you only sample the top 3-4" the results can be skewed, typically reading higher than normal. But the Calcium and pH readings suggest that lots of calcium along with other nutrients were applied at some point. Only you have a history of what may have occured and you'll need to take that into account.

Your options: I would do very little preplant except to apply a few pounds of sulfur to help drop the pH slightly. Keep in mind that as the organic residue decomposes the pH will naturally drop. Nitrogen can help, but I would hold off applying too much at planting time since you may have a reserve amount of N in organic form if you had applied lots of manure, etc. If you already purchased the lime now would be a good time to lime your lawn.

I do not ever recall adding lime to the garden and the lawn service is only supposed to do the lawn. They say they stay like 18 inches or something from from any garden beds. When I made the bed I simply removed the lawn, built the retaining wall and brought in about a yard of purchased compost, which I tilled into the top soil that was there. I think it was 2 years later that I brought in another yard of purchased compost to fill in the bed a little more, but I figured the old compost was probably pretty well depleted after a couple of years. I don't use much fertalizer, over say, 3-4 years I used fish emulsion a couple of times and some miracle grow for tomatoes, but I was not even consistent with that, maybe one or two times a year. I have dumped fall leaves there 2-3 years. Thats about it. But since I have never added more top soil, just compost, I assumed that was why. As far as sampling, I scraped away the dry leaves that are still on top and used a trowel to take "slices" as deep as the trowel would go, about 5 inches deep (they recommended 5-6 inches). I took 5 or 10 (cant remember which) of these from a about a 3 sq ft area and mixed in a bag, labeled them "top of garden", "bottom of veg garden" "and shady side of veg garden" and then put each one inside a second zip lock bag with the form for each sample. The odd thing is that I got similar results for the herb garden, which is near my back door and I have not added soil for a number of years, and don't regularly fertilize; and the flower gardens on 2 sides of the house. One is a shallow raised bed that I probably used the same purchased compost in, but that was a couple of years ago.

iI have used fertalizers on the flower beds but certainly not regularly in past 3 years, I have actually been rather neglecting them.

My question is if I have been using too much compost and should have been bringing in more top soil as well, or if the results are not accurate.

UCONN told me the soil tests were delayed by equipment that needed to be fixed and parts they were waiting for. However, they told me the samples were "processed" over a week ago and mailed out last Weds or Thurs, but I got them yesterday the post mark was only 2 days ago. My concern is if samples were misplaced or mixed up. But since I can explain the results by putting a lot of purchased compost in the bed, I guess I really don't know what to think.

The only other thing I can think of to do is send new samples, but I already spent 50.00 on these, lol. I guess I could just send one next time to see what happens. Or I could redo the test using the agricultural extension station that is closer to me. They do not say online how much they charge. I could also get a home kit and just do a do it yourself pH test to see if the general range it shows is acidic or alkaline and if there is a large difference beteen the lawn and several different gardens.

I suppose I should rake away all the leaves and then maybe scrape away the top inch or two of soil before taking new samples. The leaves could have increased the amt of organic matter found in the top couple inches of soil, and some of the soil on top would fall down into the hole when I took the samples. If that skewed the results then maybe removing a couple inches of soil first would resolve it.

This might also lend some insight. I found it on "composterconnection . com" I have an ash tree in my front yard, and a lot of the leaves are probably ash, although the rest come from a "swamp maple" which I believe is a red maple.

"Pound for pound, the leaves of most tress contain twice the mineral content of manure. Because they're a form of organic roughage, they can dramatically improve drainage and aeration of the soil. And they provide the perfect nutrition for beneficial microbes. In short, they make soil come alive."

"Leaves are rich in the trace elements your soil needs. Trees are an effective mineral extractor, putting down deep and intricate root systems that funnel calcium, magnesium, potassium and phosphorus from the soil into their trunks and out to its leaves. 50 to 80 percent of all the nutrients trees extract from the ground end up in the leaves. Gathered at their peak and composted correctly, leaves will transfer this nutrition to your soil."

"But all leaves are not created equal. The leaves of the eastern hemlock have twice as much nitrogen as the leaves of the red maple. White ash leaves are loaded with calcium, hemlock not so much. White ash leaves have a pH of 6.8, sugar maple leaves have a pH of 4.30. Some leaves aren't suitable at all for composting, or should be used very sparingly. The leaves of black walnut trees and eucalyptus trees contain a natural herbicide that may keep your garden seeds from germinating."

Remember this thread last winter? I just wanted to report in that I did, indeed, double dig my tomato beds and dug in a load of rotted horse manure into each one and added some blood meal too, since my soil is very low in nitrogen.

Wow what a difference it made! I have had enormous, delicious tomatoes this year and lots and lots of them. The plants were strong, lush, and healthy without a hint of any disease or insect problems. I will be doing this every year.

Good job, Donnabaskets! I certainly do remember this thread, lol. I do think I am getting better production this year also, after bringing in plain topsoil and leveling the bed more, but I will have to see what happens with the weather and just how much I end up with. Its going to be harder to know what I get from different varieties this year, though. I have done the same thing I did last year and when I planted the seedlings into red solo cups I wrote the name on the cup itself, and when it went into the garden, each cup got placed next to the plant and filled with soil as a plant marker. This year, though, most of the names washed off with rain and/or watering, lol. Frustrating! Fortunately Anna Russian is still marked, and I do know where Brandywine Suddarth and Rutgers are. The rest might be guess work!

Thanks Sue & Donna for posting follow ups after doing changes. I'm always yearning for more production earlier in the season because by mid August the sun lowers and my edible gardens receive less hours of sunlight from nearby tall fir trees. I've yet to have a soil test, but would if the cost was less.

Various areas of my garden have been double dug and in production for varying lengths of time as I've expanded the garden area. Initially, I just used rabbit, duck, and chicken manure from my kids' backyard animals along with homemade compost. About 5 years ago I started using horse manure + sawdust bedding in huge amounts applied in fall or winter as available nearby free for the hauling. Spread on top of soils along with shredded leaves and other organic matter (shredded garden waste, grass clippings, used coffee grounds, chicken manure + bedding, hay/straw sweepings). Some years covered with burlap bags over winter. In spring that soil is amazingly loose, but I've still turned over the bed at least 1 shovel depth then let set before planting.

This year I was turned soil over as deep as I could going down 2-3 shovel depths. Horse manure was applied in February rather than in fall and wasn't fully decomposed, so I wanted it deep instead of on top. The tomatoes are growing great and blooming with some fruit. In my cool summer climate it's slow growing until the heat is turned on after July 4 when we have more sunny days over 70.

The other difference is we spread the red plastic perforated tomato mulch in the tomato bed and installed 5 more soaker hoses, so I only have to water part of the potatoes & beans in the newest part of the garden.

In some of the beds I added additional rabbit manure (raspberries, SFG boxes, strawberries, squash). Time will tell how productivity will be different.

A pic of one SFG box with the black water pipe hoops to extend the season with plastic covering. Red cabbage, red lettuces starting to bolt, transplanted flat leaf parsley from self sown middle of the bed, chives on edge, self sown or moved calendula, multiplier onions, broccoli & kale toward back of bed. In another box we used thicker white PVC pipe slipped in 1"x12" pieces of PVC clamped to inside of bed.

view of edible garden along gravel driveway (realize the view is too small to really see much)
fruit trees underplanted with strawberries, garlic & daylilies with cement blocks holding back soil & planted with herbs & sedums
first tree visible is a large Rainier cherry tree and if birds didn't get so many we'd be eating more of them (always thinking of taking it out, but then the cherries come-- then they're nearly gone)
hoses run to connect to soakers or other hoses that connect to soakers as spigot is some distance from garden
SFG boxes with large orange pots of bush cucumbers + flowers in front, black earth machine cold compost for kitchen waste behind
various pots of sedums & herbs on ground along with plastic tote of small seedlings
row of raspberries
row of tomatoes
large zucchini bed between 2 small pear trees with bale of straw & white plastic used on tomatoes previously in the middle of pic (waiting for them to dry before storing, but we keep having rain)
yellow raspberries with red blooming bee balm, Monarda on other side of pear trees
potatoes here & there
more potatoes in compost bins behind main garden
squash bed in pallet raised area
ladders for green beans, etc.

Hope the pics help~ Corrine

Very nice and some interesting ideas, thanks for sharing! I will be back to reread your post when I am less sleepy and can take in the details more, lol!

I like the hoops to make covering the plants easy for season extending. My raise bed is more like 8' wide, so it wouldn't really work for me, but I bet it is convenient when an early frost threatens, and I kinda of like how it looks, too. My garden is almost all tomatoes which are too tall anyway. Still, I really like how you used them, especially like the black ones, and I think it looks nice, too.