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microphobik

How many vines should I let grow?

Microphobik
11 years ago

I am growing Heirlooms in 9 gallon pots. Mostly beefsteak varieties. Is there any kind of established equation for how many vines one should let each plant grow when space is limited, to achieve highest overall yield?

If not an established rule, any opinions?

Comments (11)

  • missingtheobvious
    11 years ago

    How much room do you have, how many plants, and what kind of supports are you using?

  • Microphobik
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    I have two set ups. Most of my plants are in 35 L Pots. Just under 9 gallons. I have plenty of physical space, but obviously I'm limited by the pots.

    I also have a small garden with 12 plants in it. They are a bit close but they have more then 2 feet between them.

    My oldest plants are only about two months since transplanted into pots and one is already over 6 feet tall and while it's got a lot of unripened fruit on it, I've not even harvested one yet. Point being, these plants are looking like they will be huge if I let them. Some of the young ones have leaves wider than the plant is tall (about a foot and a half).

    I'm supporting things with bamboo. I have two or three poles in each pot and am starting to lay posts in the garden.

    I've been pruning my older plants down to about 3 vines each but have been reading a lot about growing huge yields and it seems the recommendations are to let more vines develop for the bigger yields. But I'd think a pot can only support so much healthy fruit. I'm wondering what that amount is?

    I've got to make some decisions about how I'm going to let my younger plants grow and I was just wondering where that balance was and how many vines I could easily support with a pot that size or a garden where plants were only about 2 feet apart. I figured there was a limit.

    I'm growing over a dozen varieties such as Brandywines, Ox Hearts, Aunt Ruby's, Black Krim, Big Rainbow, Abraham Lincoln, Hill Billy, and so on.

    Thanks in advance for any advice you might have.

  • digdirt2
    11 years ago

    In pots that small and in the garden when they are planted that close together then I'd think you want to limit them to 2 stems each.

    That will cost you lots of production that you could have had from much larger containers and better spacing - no pruning at all would be needed then.

    Yes those varieties will be huge, out of sync with your containers and garden spacing. Next year give serious thought to either switching to determinates or container-type varieties or bigger containers and 3-4' spacing with better support systems like cages.

    Dave

  • Microphobik
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Thanks, that's helpful. This is m first year growing so I'm still sorting through a lot of info and figuring things out. I will definitely go bigger next year. Is it likely I'll run into problems once the plants get bigger or should I be okay if I continue to feed and prune down to only a couple of vines?

    Thanks again.

  • Ohiofem 6a/5b Southwest Ohio
    11 years ago

    How tall and sturdy are your bamboo stakes? What kinds of weather can you expect, especially wind? I grew tomatoes with stakes in containers for many years. The weather in southwest Ohio is usually pretty tame, but we did have some high wind storms. The stakes I used were those 8-foot vinyl coated metal stakes available from big box stores. I pruned all suckers leaving only one vine, and many of my plants grew taller than the stakes. Every year, a few of my tomato plants fell over because they were so heavy or the wind was so strong. The containers were 20-25 gallons and made of heavy material, so this usually meant the stem was damaged or the plant became partially uprooted. I recommend that you make sure that doesn't happen to your plants. The other concern I would have is that you may need to water every day in such small pots. With 20-25 gallon pots holding one plant each, I usually have to water every other day during the heat of the summer.

    This past summer, I used Texas tomato cages in 25-gallon pots and didn't prune at all. I got a much better yield from most of my plants using this method. It was definitely worth the extra investment.

  • Microphobik
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Thanks for all the perspectives. It's very helpful. The 35 Litre pots were the biggest I could find. I thought they were considered large. Good to know they are not. Next year I will definitely be planting everything big in the ground and giving more space. I'm encouraged though that my plants seem to be big and setting a lot of fruit. Hopefully the yield is still decent. I have about 3 vines growing on each right now.

    Question though...

    Is the issue with pot size that things dry out too fast or is it that the roots simply can't spread out enough and get enough food? If I feed the plants regularly and water every day, can a 9 gallon pot still support a big plant, or am I headed for problems regardless?

    To answer your question Ohiofem, my stakes are bamboo and teh area that I have planted is fairly sheltered from teh wind unless we get a rare north easterly. But when that happens I watch them closely. Only one has tipped and ironically it's a big determinate (my only one). But because I didn't prune it it's got a very wide top that wants to pull it over. I'll see if I can't put a few steaks in the ground to hold the pots in place.

    Has anyone had any good experiences (hopefully high yields) in pots this size or smaller? Just curious what's even possible.

    Thanks again.

  • digdirt2
    11 years ago

    Is the issue with pot size that things dry out too fast or is it that the roots simply can't spread out enough and get enough food?,

    Are only 2 of the issues. The primary issue is the stress on the plant which leads to all sorts of secondary issues such as reduced production, pest attraction, diseases, diluted flavor, BER, cracking and splitting, etc. It is sort of like a person with a compromised immune system - secondary problems develop.

    In theory, sure you could grow a plant in a 1 gallon container or less. Hydroponic growers do it all the time. But that is with constant pH and temp monitoring, continuous nutrient and water supply, sheltering with environmental stabilization, etc.

    But just as growing in any container differs greatly from in-ground growing, growing in soil is an entirely different set of issues from hydroponics. And in general, the more the better. Some are moderately successful with certain varieties in 5 gallons with drip irrigation and fertigation on timers but the production and over-all plant health still can't compare to one grown in much larger containers.

    I can and do grow determinate varieties in 10 gallon containers and they do fairly well with extra care such as drip irrigation, fertigation, etc. But an indeterminate variety can only truly thrive in my environment in 15-20 gallons or more.

    You can find much more info on all this aspect over on the Container gardening forum here.

    Dave

  • Microphobik
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    I see, and I had no idea. Wish the gals in the nursery had told me that before I got started. I really appreciate the info and it makes perfect sense.

    I have about 30 plants in progress, more than half are in those 35 Litre pots. They seem healthy though so I'll just stay on top of watering and fertilizing and hope for the best until next year. I've been adding comfrey tea to the water and I'm convinced it's helping a lot. Should be harvesting the first fruit soon. I just hope the flavor doesn't suffer.

    Thanks again.

  • Ohiofem 6a/5b Southwest Ohio
    11 years ago

    It's hard to find suitable large pots at a reasonable price. Half whiskey barrels hold about 25 gallons and can usually be found at big box stores for around $25-$30. Many people convert large plastic totes by drilling holes in them, but I've found they break down from UV damage within a year or two. I have been using fabric containers that run $15-$20 for the 15-25 gallon sizes. There are several brands available. I have been very happy with Smart Pots for the past four years. For the past two years, I used Al's 5-1-1 mix in them and had excellent results. They hold up to the elements quite well. (I have no connection to the company.)

    Here is a link that might be useful: Smart Pots

  • digdirt2
    11 years ago

    If you have access to a recycling center browse around. You'd be amazed at what you can find there to convert to large containers for just a couple of bucks. You just have to use your imagination.

    40-55 gallon drums cut in half work well but be sure to ask what was in them and clean them out well.

    Dave

  • missingtheobvious
    11 years ago

    Microphobik, here's an examination of all sorts of tomato support methods:
    http://www.mastergardeners.org/picks/tomato_staking.html

    Many people here are fond of the Post and Twine method for in-ground tomatoes -- better known on GW as "Florida weave."

    For supporting container plants, try a search in this forum for container support

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