The original variety is Purple Smudge, which has red flesh and blackish to purple smudges at the stem end.

Purple Smudge ( orange flesh) is a mutant of that that has orange flesh.

It was first listed in the 2008 Yearbook and my understanding is that the only difference between the two is the flesh color and that both should have fruits in the 2-4 oz range.

Purple Smudge is not light sensitive the way the Blue tomato from OSU is, which is red when not exposed to light, so I doubt there's any known relationship between the OSU Blue tomato and Purple Smudge, either red or orange fleshed, bc Purple Smudge ( red flesh) has long been listed in the SSE Yearbooks.

I have seeds for the orange fleshed one but don't know yet if they will make it to the garden this year b/c some other varieties have a higher priority. And I guess the best way to go would be to grow both flesh colored Purple Smudge ones at the same time and do a comparison.

Carolyn

"Its parent was received from W. S. Porte of the U.S. Department of Agriculture as No. 48-B-380. It came from his cross of Stokesdale X (Rutgers X Pan America) as female parent X (Michigan State Forcing X L. peruvianum) X San Marzano as male parent from Dr. V. M. Watts of the University of Arkansas. Gl393 selection had very large prolific vines with bright red fruits 2 to 2-1/2 inches in diameter. The tops of some of the large green fruits were marked with purple-black smudges, which character probably was inherited from the L. peruvianum ancester. Black smudge is a new charactor for fruited tomatoes. Some of the plants showed purple epidermis on the upper parts of the stems. The red fruits had bright green jelly around the seeds. Preliminary crosses did not indicate clearly the nature of the inheritance of the greenjelly character."

This is a quote from the originator of Purple Smudge. Note the use of L. Peruvianum in the cross. This was the source of the abg gene in the variety. It is NOT stable because of a chromosome inversion you can read about in the links below. Per his original description, development of the purple color was dependent on both low temps and high light levels. The original was developed in the early 1960's. The thing I wanted to emphasize is that Purple Smudge is a variety that was "developed" and made its way into the mainstream. The other important info is that it IS light sensitive but develops color only with the correct temperature.

The next thing to bring out is about Jim Myers use of Purple Smudge. I discussed Purple Smudge in an email chain with him in January 2007. Here is a direct quote from my email to Jim in 2007:

"there is a novelty variety named Purple Smudge that expresses a small amount of purple color in the skin. I've grown it and was not impressed with the flavor."

Here are some links to read:
http://tgc.ifas.ufl.edu/vol4/v4p18c.html
http://tgc.ifas.ufl.edu/vol57/html/vol57boches.htm

DarJones

One note I should add. I re-evaluated the original cross and Jim Myers test results and it is NOT clear that the Abg in Purple Smudge is the same as the Abg in S. Lycopersicoides. This is obvious given that Purple Smudge came from S. Peruvianum (syn. L. Peruvianum).

DarJones

Judging by recent photos of the (Orange fleshed Purple smudge variety)it looka a totally different tomato altogether, as different as chalk is to cheese, with deep purple almost black-solid coloured shoulders against the main body of orange, as opposed to the more common red/pink purple smudge-which appears to have little or no depth of colour to it's shoulders hardly worth bothering about.
It is just unfortunate that they chose a similar name to call it by.and I doubt very much if the orange fleshed version is a mutant of the other-I shouldnt think they are even closely related-they appear so different in form and colour.

From the two or three photos that I have seen around of the Orange fleshed one- it has deep blue/black shoulders-solid, over an orange main body and is very striking in colour .
It is a great pity that the Baker Creek website does not carry a true photo of this variety for people to see, but there are several other scources of photos of it available on the net, it was shown in all it's glorious colours on e-bay a few days ago, and another better photo of it is on another well known tomato enthusiasts website.

Interesting background.

Darrel, you say you've grown it. What did you see as to light/temp sensitivity?

I ask b'c when I look at the descriptions given for Purple Smudge ( red flesh), the original, in several Yearbooks I have yet to see anyone mention that the color is different when the fruits are or are not exposed to light, as one sees with the OSU Blue. But see the comment below as to light effects with stems and leaves.

And as I just looked at still more older Yearbooks it looks like it was obtained around 1984, or before, by an SSE member in FL from the USDA, # 290858.

One relevant comment from one lister was "parts of leaves and stems also have purplish cast if grown in full sun" but no comment as to light or temp effects was made about fruit color.

And opinions are all over the place as to taste, but tending towards the.....this is not that good tasting, not a canner, but to be honest, most of those who listed it in the older yearbooks say nothing about taste at all, and that includes Glenn, who was listing it back in the 1984 Yearbook, and I just didn't go back to years before that.

AS I said above, the orange fleshed PS was first listed in the 2008 Yearbook and was described as tangerine with violet shoulders, source for the lister was an SSE member from MI in 96, and was also described as a "sport" of red fleshed Purple Smudge.

Carolyn, who wonders why, if the lister received the seeds in 96 it wasn't listed until 2008; seems to be something missing here. And while she knows the lister in the 2008 Yearbook she does not have enough interest to ask why the 12 year lag in listing it.

Purple Smudge Orange Fleshed was listed in SSE in 2007,2006 by persons who had received it from SSE HF and in 2005, it was listed by SSE HF.(2.5"dia. X 2 " high.) SSE tomato # 3006.
In 1996 and 1997 it was listed under (Other Colors) by someone in Michigan -there were comments about experimenting with grafting. It said 'same as Purple Smudge except fruit is orange'
Neil G.

Purple Smudge Orange Fleshed was listed in SSE in 2007,2006 by persons who had received it from SSE HF and in 2005, it was listed by SSE HF.(2.5"dia. X 2 " high.) SSE tomato # 3006.
In 1996 and 1997 it was listed under (Other Colors) by someone in Michigan -there were comments about experimenting with grafting. It said 'same as Purple Smudge except fruit is orange'
Neil G.

Thanks Neil, and since I had my 96 Yearbook handy I took a look. I had thought the orange fleshed one was new for 2008 and didn't look at past Yearbooks, as you did.

It makes sense to me now. He does say that the fruit is orange, well, that's about the same as tangerine that the current listing for it indicates, but, I do find it a bit confusing that the 2008 listing is Purple Smudge, Orange Fleshed, b'c if both fruit color and flesh color are changed then it's no longer Purple Smudge except that it says violet shoulders while the originator says "purple smudging goes from traces to some fruit having two thirds covered.

I guess more info will be available as more and more folks grow it, to see what they get in terms of fruit color and degree of smudging.

And he does say that he got the orange fleshed one by grafting and it had remained stable for 3 years, at that point in time.

And it makes sense to me that SSE relisted it in 2005 b/c they relist many varieties that have disappeared due to no relistings and some of mine have also been relisted by SSE itself.

So perhaps with the current 2008 listing the source should have been O.S. ( original source) MI_____) my seeds from SSE HF 2005.

In which case there was no 12 year gap at all.

No 2009 Yearbook here yet Neil, but I hear they've hired more dogsled teams to my west, so fingers crossed. LOL

Carolyn

Thanks all for the info.

It appears that the strain Baker Creek is offering is light sensitive. In the paper catalogue, they have one front and center, and surrounded by a mist of purple, a bright orange star is in the middle where the stem and flower used to be connected.

The smudge characteristic is variable both due to genetics and enviornment. So what one might observe plant to plant or year to year and under different environmental conditions will influence how much of that black/purple is expressed.

Orange color
As far as the orange vs red, I think simply the higher contrast of purple against orange vs purple against red is going to appear to be more vivid simply due to the nature of color perception.

The orange is likely from the tangerine gene. So it means that either this variety is the result of a cross or the result of a mutation at the t+ wildtype loci. At least one of the parents in the background of 'Purple Smudge' is documented to have a tangerine mongenic mutant documented. A revision due to the grafting alone is dubious.

Variable expression
The person who released 'Purple Smudge' notes several times in reports that the expression of the purple is enhanced by higher light. He also notes several other environmental factors that can ultimately effect the expression of the purpling.

From Young, TGRC 13:33-34

Plants with the smudge character showed purple to black smudge in the peel
of the sunny sides of few to many fruits per plant, especially when the
plants were exposed to temperatures of 35 to 50F.

[note- P20 does this as well]

furthermore
... so light appears necessary for development of the purple or black color. Cool fall weather or soil deficient in nitrogen and phosphorus apparently increased the
development of the purple or black color.

The report also mentions that the trait does not fit simple Mendelian inheritance patterns. I won't go into that part. Suffice to say both the genetic expression and expression due to environment are responsible for how much purple there is (or isn't).

The pedigree of 'Purple Smudge' is rather complex.

I traced it this way.

Purple Smudge/LA2377 (TGRC) = PI 290858 (USDA) which is G 2157-8
There used to be a listing titled 'Purple Smudge' but it has been changed to it original entry from the donor - 'G 2157-8'. The Ames USDA site used to hold tomatoes and there it was called Ames 619.

Here is the current USDA record.
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1220049

I then traced the lineage from Young's research notes in several issues of The Reports of the Tomato Genetics Committee. Colored areas are attributed to the contributing breeders and so noted.

{{gwi:1299598}}

Some of the initial crosses probably go back to the early 1940's. (Young's G1219[F3] x Stokesdale cross is noted as 1949).

I might note also the PA Young observed and documented many so called "heirloom traits". For instance the one line received from Dr Porte of the USDA also segregated out "pink-gold"

fruits with yellow peel, orange rind, and orange and pink flesh�.. Seeds from these fruits produced mostly red-fruited plants, but some plants had the typical pink gold fruits. Inheritance of fruit color is peculiar in crosses with Lycopersicon peruvianum (Lesley & Lesley, Jour. Hered. 38:245-251, 1947).
He also described blacks/purples, other bicolors and superpuff (bell pepper shape).

I did not care for Purple Smudge myself. I care for few tangerine fruits (most are bland to me). From what I have been observing in crosses with orange, I can only imagine that the orange trait only took something down in quality rather than up. It is an interesting novelty though.

Thanks Keith, that certainly limits the speculation of it's origin and characteristics.

--->Rob

I got a reply from Jim Myers earlier this evening stating that he thinks the gene in Purple Smudge is a homolog for Aft. This because the Purple Smudge variant came from S. Peruvianum and the gene in P20 came from S. Chilense. A homolog means that essentially the same gene exists in two different species. It does not, however, necessarily express the same way because of interactions with other genes that are unique to one species vs the other. They have not tested to be sure, just have some dna info that matches some sequences between the two varieties.

DarJones

Does anyone have a picture of this?

I've linked to Google Images with several pictures of it and you can also go to Baker Creek at rareseeds.com and see a picture in their online catalog.

Carolyn

Here is a link that might be useful: Orange fleshed purple smudge

Does anyone have seeds for the original 'Purple Smudge' tomato? All i can find is the orange variety. I'd like to try some backcrosess to S. peruvianum.

I used to have seeds for both, but no more. If you go to Tania's site you'll see

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Purple_Smudge#tab=General_Info

That most have been getting the original from Sandhill Preservation. I just looked in my Sandhill catalog for 2015 and he was listing it.

So why don't you Google Sandhill Preservation and the website and see if he still lists it,if the 2017 data is up or even the 2016.

If not let me know, you know how to contact me,which is not here at houzz, and I can make some suggestions for you.

Carolyn

Thanks Carolyn, i will look at Sandhill.