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Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

Posted by bobkatt Ct (My Page) on
Tue, Feb 12, 08 at 23:29

Hi, What are the best hybrids resistant to Early blight. I have heard Mountain supreme but I can't find it anywhere. The closest thing I could find locally is a Best Boy VFN so I guess I will have to go through mail order.
Any suggestions for a couple of good hybrids and a place to get them?
I had a good crop even with the blight last year (beefstead, roma, jetstar)but my whole yard is infected -- I tried planting my brandywines at the other side and they were clear for half the summer but eventually succumbed. I am hoping to find a hybrid as I don't have any nice sunny areas left except for the contaminated areas.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

I have problems with blight too. I'm trying a different strategy this year and trying a lot of early to mid season tomatoes and avoiding late season tomatoes. I also plant some in pots on the deck in case the ones in the garden get blight. That way I'll have some tomatoes. It was also recommended that I use a fungicide to try and extend the season before blight hits.

I have not seen much difference between hybrids that are suppose to be disease tolerant, those that are not and heirlooms. Some tomatoes that have done well for me in the past (in no particular order): Big Beef, Supersteak, Jetstar, Celebrity, Supersweet 100's, Rutgers (heirloom), Big Red Cherry (heirloom), Yellow Pears (heirloom). Mortgage Lifters also performed ok for me (heirloom, I don't know what strand.)

Ones that didn't do well: Brandywine (heirloom), Cherokee Purple (heirloom),Health Kick (hybrid), Fourth of July (hybrid).

There is a hybrid out there called Brandy Boy. It's suppose to have good disease tolerance and high yields, but have the taste of Brandywines. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has grown these and how they liked them.


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

Here are a couple of websites that might help in ID and control of diseases. I think you will have to scan the seed catalogs online to find resistant hybrids. Then, you could look locally for the seeds if you don't want to do mail order.

Copy and paste these web sites. I have never tried the URL link option before, so I am just pasting them to the message body.

Site 1 : http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/tomatoproblemsolver/handbook.html#leafmold
The site below is a great site for visual ID of problems, useful for all types of problems.

Site 2 : http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/tomatoproblemsolver/index.html


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

Hi, What are the best hybrids resistant to Early blight

****

If it's really Early Blight ( A.solani) that you have there are no varieties, hybrid or OP that have any significant tolerance to that foliage disease, with a couple of exceptions that are of no use to the home gardener.

And what I mean by that is that Dr. Randy Gardner, breeder of the Mountain series and others, has released I think two varieties that have marginal tolerance to EB, but as he once told me, it means that the commercial farmer can spray maybe every 7-8 days whereas normally they'd spray more often, but for the commercial farmer that can mean a huge money savings.

The common foliage diseases of Early Blight (A.solani), Septoria Leaf Spot, both fungal, and Bacterial Spot and Speck are THE most common diseases worldwide.

If yoiu aren't growing organically then I highly suggest that you start spraying your plants as soon as you set them out, with Ortho Garden Disease Control. The active ingredient is Daconil, a synthetic, which has less toxicity than does Rotenone, which is accepted by every organic certifying agency I know of.

Folks, please let's not turn this thread into a discourse on Daconil as some have done in the past. At this point it really isn't that helpful to do so in my opinion.

I recommend Daconil b'c for many, the two fungal foliage pathogens can prevent a decent harvest or any harvest at all. Mulching and all that is helpful, but ALL foliage diseases that are initially acquired are airborne, so while mulching can help prevent splashback reinfection from pathogens shed to the soil in a previous year(s), it can't prevent newly acquired infections via ariborne means.

Hope that helps.

Carolyn


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

I have noticed indeterminates tend to perform better not due to any resistance because Early Blight will show up in older plant tissue first. The indeterminates with the new growth on top tend to be the only healthy looking, green and blooming thing left at the end of the season left un-sprayed.

You best bet is (if you haven't already) start some successive planting. In other words, don't plant all at once. Seed every 2-3 weeks in small batches so later in the season you will have healthy, young plants just starting to produce fruit when your previous crop has blighted out.

This is the best advice you are going to get and believe me, once you try it you will understand.


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

Totallytomatoes has all the mountain series.


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

I have had good luck with Brandy Boys. They are better than most when it comes to disease resistance. Carolyn has given you the best advise to spray regularly with Ortho Garden Disease Control. It works for me!
John A


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

It is early blight :( It is rampant in this area and started two years ago when we had an extremely wet and humid summer. From what my local seed store said I did fairly well compared to most.

Yes, I always stagger my plantings and last year I sprayed with daconil after I had somewhat limited success with a baking soda mix.
Due to spraying I feel I was able to get a fairly good harvest although I was able to get only about half my normal yield for canning out of about 67 plants.
Even somewhat resistant hybrids might help along with spraying. I will look for brandy boy and check out totallytomatoes for some of the mountain series.
Years ago I used to put down black plastic under the tomatoes with really good results. I might try that again to try to limit the spread from the soil.
I wish I could bake the soil with a clear plastic but there is not enough sun in my area to be effective that way.


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

I have had good luck with Brandy Boys. They are better than most when it comes to disease resistance...
I have grown Brandy Boy for the last four seasons because I find it to be reliable, good tasting, and productive. But as far as being tolerant of foliar fungal infections, it really has suffered from that as much as most other varieties that I have been growing. Its thicker PL habit seems to retard it somewhat, but not for very long (over and above time frame wherein RL toms start to suffer from it).

Only real defense here is to spray with some type of fungicide. I do, and many townnie gardeners here do not. Easy to ID those who do not... into late August and early September, their tomato plants are really starting to get wacked just when they are in their prime production mode.

Reg


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight


If it's really Early Blight ( A.solani) that you have there are no varieties, hybrid or OP that have any significant tolerance to that foliage disease, with a couple of exceptions that are of no use to the home gardener.

This is not a correct statement. The issue of early blight is complex as there are different phases of the disease and different existing varieties incorporate different kinds of resistance. Resistance to early blight is not a single gene type like those found with fusarium or say nematodes. Resistance also is affected by the background type - ie determinates and heavily concentrated fruit set types are more inclined as are curled foliage types. Potato leaf types are only annecdotally reported by a few and not noted in research. That resistance/tolerance probably has more to do with being indeterminate and less concentrated fruit sets.

Campbells 1943 is an older variety with very good table quality. It was developed in the late 1930's. It has that rich flavor found in many older varieties but is not "sweet" like a Brandywine or other vintage varieties. It is primarily a collar-rot resistant variety but has shown to be useful for a moderate level of leaf and fruit lesion resistance.

"71B2" is a processing plum type with moderate foliage resistance but is susceptible to the stem and fruit lesion. This variety is a very rich flavored plum and worthy of more attention.

I have done increases of both of these varieties and given seed to the Tomatomania group to share with others. So both are available to try.



Dr Gardner has released "Mountain Supreme", "Plum Dandy" and "Plum Crimson". These do just fine in the home garden and when picked vine ripe are good. (have you ever really tried them for yourself?) He has also developed 8 other breeding lines labeled NCEBR-1 thru 8 respectively. (NCEBR-3 x NCEBR-4) = Mountain Supreme, (NCEBR-7 x NCEBR-8) =Plum Crimson. There are also NC 63 EB-1C and NC 870-2B which have combined resistance to late and early blight from the Campbells 1943 source. These breeding lines are not widely available and some have been PVP'd. Depending on the line, each have some combo of resistance from the above sources and a species line (PI 126445) which shows almost complete resistance.

Dr Gardner has been working to incorporate more disease resistance into vintage lines.
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/fletcher/programs/ncorganic/research/tomatoes_organics.html
or see link below

I have 2nd generation Early Blight resistance from another highly resistant source incorporated into a few lines including Sudduth's Brandywine but it will be awhile and it isnt really a top priority for me.

I might note that there are a number of other researchers who have picked up the torch and working on early blight throughout the world I have failed to see Carolyn mention in past posts. Due to the nature of the resistance to known varieties work is being done on identifying QTLs (quantitative trait loci) in lines. If markers for these QTLs can be found, there should one day be progress with incorporating resistance.

it means that the commercial farmer can spray maybe every 7-8 days whereas normally they'd spray more often, but for the commercial farmer that can mean a huge money savings.

While that is partly the jest, this is an over-simplification of a complex form of resistance (horizontal vs vertical) combined with the kind of background material it was incorporated into (determinate, high load bearing varieties). There are other benefits Carolyn has not pointed out using such lines as a management strategy both home and farmers can exploit the main benefit being lower amounts of daconil exposures and reduced amount of localized source inoculum year to year.

ALL foliage diseases that are initially acquired are airborne, ... acquired infections via ariborne means

Go back and check your APS reference in the sections titled "disease cycle and epidemiology". Primary (source) inoculum of both septoria and early blight come from debris litter or weeds, not airborne sources. It is not until later that spores are released into the air. If one reduces the amount of primary innoculum from debris and weeds (by removal, deep digging/plowing and mulching) one can prevent or dramatically limit spores from being released into the air. So one can significantly reduce that impact by simple and well timed cultural techniques. When I was researching all this for grad school, I never saw any studies indicating that early blight or septoria spores traveled long distances such as the case with late blight.

Control is also not just a matter of preventing splashing but also keeping the foliage dry (through row orientation to take advantage of primary wind direction, wider spacing and higher light locations [especially morning sun]) which really impact septoria and early blight. Weed species such as various nightshades can also be a source of inoculum.

Irregardless of the apples to oranges comparison, Daconil is still a synthetic toxin. It is so widely used now (not only in veggies but turf and ornamentals too) that the USDA has found it rain samples. When one can reduce it's application by cultural methods or resistant varieties all the better for the environment and the applicators safety. Daconil, when used for any disease problem, should also be rotated with other fungicides to reduce selection for resistant strains.

Also

might want to start looking in old literature. Purples or even specifically stated as "maroon" color was often noted by numerous researchers as off types in both pink and red lines. They distinguish the purples from brown or "murky" colorations.

Ever hear the story of the blind men who each touched a different part of an elephant and described it differently?

Dr Rick never saw a "black" tomato because neither have I. He and others described them other ways such as those noted above.

Here is a link that might be useful: work on new hybrids from vintage lines with disease resistance


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

Bravo mule, no pun intended.


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

If it's really Early Blight ( A.solani) that you have there are no varieties, hybrid or OP that have any significant tolerance to that foliage disease, with a couple of exceptions that are of no use to the home gardener.

*****
This is not a correct statement.

Keith, I'm only repeating what Randy told me on the phone several years ago. I'd called about two issues.

First, at that time only Randy and Tom Zitter at Cornell were working on Early Blight tolerance and Tom wanted me to do some EB challenges in my tomato patch and so I wanted input from Randy on that as well.And it was in that chat that the spraying interval was brought up by him and where he also said that he couldn't see his "mildly" tolerant varieties to EB to be of much use for the home gardener. His focus was the commercial farmer.

Secondly, I wanted to know where he was at in terms of using OP heirlooms in his breeding projects, so we discussed that as well.

(Go back and check your APS reference in the sections titled "disease cycle and epidemiology". Primary (source) inoculum of both septoria and early blight come from debris litter or weeds, not airborne sources. It is not until later that spores are released into the air. If one reduces the amount of primary innoculum from debris and weeds (by removal, deep digging/plowing and mulching) one can prevent or dramatically limit spores from being released into the air. So one can significantly reduce that impact by simple and well timed cultural techniques. When I was researching all this for grad school, I never saw any studies indicating that early blight or septoria spores traveled long distances such as the case with late blight.)

I learned differently as to spread of EB from Dr. Zitter and the Cornell Ag Director for my own area.

Here's what's said in the Seminis, nee Petoseed Tomato pathology monograph, and many folks consider their labs as some of the finest in the world:

Conditions for Disease Development

The fungus usually survives from season to season on decayed plant material in the soil. Volunteer tomatoes and potatoes and other solanaceous weeds can also serve as inoculum sources. Infection and fungal spore production occur during periods of warm ( 24-29C;75-84F) and rainy or humid weather, ****The fungal spores are then disseminated by the wind and rain.**** This disease can spread rapidly when favorable conditions persist. It can also be serious in arid climates if there are frequent dew periods, or if sprinkler irrigation is used.

****

So it can be spread by wind and rain, as noted above and many is the time that someone will say that their plants were fine until they had a heavy rain storm and then the plants were infected, and that was an initial infection via airborne means. I don't know how far the EB spores can be transmitted vs the LB spores, but several years ago thre was a real scare in the Albany area b'c of outbreaks of LB from potato cull piles in W NYS and folks here in Eastern NY were in a panic. The state had to enact special means to allow Tatoo to be sold in NYS.

And the distances talked about in terms of LB airborne transmission were up to in xs of 200 miles.

Carolyn


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

  • Posted by doof SoCal 10a (My Page) on
    Wed, Feb 13, 08 at 22:15

Early Blight resistant...

Last year I had terrible problems with EB. I lost all my tomato varieties except for (drumroll...) DRUZBA! Druzba is a very, very hardy Bulgarian heirloom. It wasn't the tastiest tomato in the garden, but it was good taste, very attractive, about 10 ounces in size, and very productive the whole year long. If you want something bulletproof to try, give Druzba a shot.

Other suggestions: If you're really having problems with EB, don't just spray them with Daconil (Ortho). Spray them with both Daconil and Mancozeb. When I switched to a combination of the two late last year, it seemed to halt the problem. I had to order my Mancozeb off the Internet.

I use a bottle mixed with Daconil, Mancozeb, Kelp Foliar spray and water. Be exact with the recommended proportions.

Also, make sure your plants have some breathing room between them. I always fail at this. And I will again, this year, guaranteed. Too many tomatoes to try, too little real estate...


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

Other suggestions: If you're really having problems with EB, don't just spray them with Daconil (Ortho). Spray them with both Daconil and Mancozeb. When I switched to a combination of the two late last year, it seemed to halt the problem. I had to order my Mancozeb off the Internet.

I use a bottle mixed with Daconil, Mancozeb, Kelp Foliar spray and water. Be exact with the recommended proportions.

*****

Mancozeb has always been the first backup to Daconil and mentioned at several sites, but if it were me I think I'd alternate using Daconil and Mancozeb rather than putting both in the same sprayer.

I say that b'c quite a few folks in years past have asked about mixing anything with Daconil so I called Ortho and was told that it's best to use Daconil alone since other stuff ( my word, LOL) added may attach and block the sites that Daconil is supposed to be attaching to.

Daconil works by attaching to and blocking the sites where the fungal pathogens attach and then can infect.

So from that time onwards I never added anything else to the spray tank other than the one specific anti-fungal I was using. I used to add a foliar feed to the Daconil at certain times, and I stopped doing that, to give an example.

Carolyn


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

carolyn137 why didn't you give this answer in the first place instead of your to often repeated quote.


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

carolyn137 why didn't you give this answer in the first place instead of your to often repeated quote.

****

In my earlier post I did mention Daconil, but it wasn't until Doof talked about using Daconil and Mancozeb and even more in one application that I thought it might be helpful to share my opinion and source about that practice.

Carolyn


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

carolyn137 it makes me wonder what other interesting or worthwhile growing practices you have not mentioned or have withheld because posters have not hinted at or not yet discovered.


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

I've been growing legend with good success for 2 years. Not many folks care for it. It's hard to find outside of the northwest but I first ordered it from Thompson Morgan
I live in SW Indiana near KY and IL. When everything else is dead legend continues for me. First of season and last.


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

Tom and Randy were not the only ones working on early blight. They were apparently just the only ones you knew about. No need to go into name dropping.

I can't speak for Randy but I would guess Randy's response was probably more about context and not wanting to go into explanations of the complexity of horizontal resistance these possess (which I dont blame him and wont do either - see Razad and Matto, 2007 for specific info about Mt Supremes resistance). Regardless, why would the resistance be any different in a commercial field and not in a home garden? Even if just a little if it can help in one, why not the other? I note the resistance because it is just part of an overall disease management strategy to reduce spraying and reduce the amount of disease present in an area over time.

Look at the reference you quoted closely. It reiterates my point.

Paraphrasing:
The PRIMARY sources are debris and leftover material in or around the field.

The inoculum does not blow around until the conditions are right for growth and spore formation of the primary source.

My point there was and is that if one reduces, blocks or eliminates those primary sources then there wont be inoculum to blow or splash around (the secondary source). One would be exploiting the pathogen life cycle as a control measure. Again your reference confirms this is what happens. Localized control of the primary source of disease should reduce the presence of the pathogen. I have found almost complete control in my plots by exploiting that measure. When such cultural methods are also employed with even ""mildly" tolerant" horizontal resistant varieties, that becomes part of an overall strategy for control and the reduction of the pathogen in the long term.

Hoosier has written up on alanbishop's board a good overview of the following disease management concept taught in horticulture and plant pathology. Sorry I cant link to it. Hoosier goes by papavic there. (google "alanbishop" "homegrown goodness" then search for disease triangle if interested). I have links below to other sources such as the APS which go in detail why this is specific for plants.

This is a great concept for anyone dealing with plant diseases to learn and consider when trying to do something about various "blights".

The concept is based on the disease triangle:


Whereas a disease is only present if all three elements are in place and plant disease is prevented upon elimination of any one of these three causal components. I do not expect one to be able to completely eliminate foliar diseases. However disease management is not black and white even with spraying alone. By altering various aspects of the corners one can reduce the amount of disease present and get control. This concept is employed in integrated programs to reduce the disease present in a location over time and reduce the need or frequency of spraying. These concepts can easily be applied to a home garden.

For a disease to be present all three element must be in place.

For Early Blight in particular

The host in this case is a tomato plant/variety

    Changes to the host:
  • genetic disease resistance
  • varieties which do not have concentrated fruit set (or high fruit to leaf ratios)
  • avoid excessively curled leaf varieties

    Changes to the pathogen:
  • eliminate by removing the sources of the pathogen (remove plant debris, deep plow any remaining residues, start with clean stock, eliminate weeds that might harbor, avoid composting infected plant material, sterile soil mix for seedlings)
  • exploiting life cycle

    Changes to the environment:
  • cover soil with mulch to prevent exposure to pathogen
  • keeping foliage dry
  • proper spacing for air flow
  • early pruning to open plant up for airflow especially near ground level
  • staking, trellising or caging to keep plants off the ground and away from primary source
  • avoid overhead watering
  • spraying (function of how the spray works on pathogen)
  • avoid over fertilizing with high nitrogen sources (feeds pathogen)
  • assure proper fertilizer to reduce nutritional stress

In some disease situations changes can be more dynamic and involve elements of two sides. An example would be exploiting the life cycle of the pathogen with the environment to stop its further growth.

Links to the disease triangle

APS concept of the disease triangle

This link might be a little easier to follow and apply
Disease Triangle Concepts - Flash Presentation "choose students"


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

carolyn137 it makes me wonder what other interesting or worthwhile growing practices you have not mentioned or have withheld because posters have not hinted at or not yet discovered.

****

What can I really say to that question? LOL

I don't withhold anthing at all when I feel that I can share something that might help someone in terms of what they've posted about.

But I can't sit down and do a post where I list everything I've learned re tomatoes, starting back on the farm over 60 years ago, and then about 20 years ago moving mostly to OP varieties and then starting to post about tomatoes at various message sites in about 1989, and then doing one heck of a lot of research on all aspects of tomato varieties and associated growing for a long time as well. No way. LOL

Carolyn


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight2

You overlooked the "maroon" references.


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

Quote:
Mancozeb has always been the first backup to Daconil and mentioned at several sites, but if it were me I think I'd alternate using Daconil and Mancozeb rather than putting both in the same sprayer.

End Quote:

Macozeb on "Manex" can absoluetly be tank mixed with Daconil "Bravo". It can be tankmixed but it is suggested to be alternated every other spray.

The best solution if you want to spray is "Bravo" then "Quadris" then "Bravo" then "Quadris". If bacterial spot becomes a threat, "Kocide" or "Champ" (copper) will help prevent it.


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

Macozeb on "Manex" can absoluetly be tank mixed with Daconil "Bravo". It can be tankmixed but it is suggested to be alternated every other spray.
*****

Timmy, I can only report back what the Ortho folks told me. Do the commercial farmers that I know mix a couple of things together? Yes, they do.

*****
The best solution if you want to spray is "Bravo" then "Quadris" then "Bravo" then "Quadris". If bacterial spot becomes a threat, "Kocide" or "Champ" (copper) will help prevent it.

I can't speak for your state but here in NYS one has to have a pesticide license to purchase/use Bravo or Quadris.

I don't know Champ but do know Kocide, and yes, if it's a bacterial foliage disease Kocide can help sometimes.

Carolyn


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

I have used Daconil with moderate success for a few years now. Last year however, I got lazy and decided to NOT use anything for blight problems, and was successful....guess the hot sunshine and the dry weather limited the blight attacks.

I have found that Red Mortgage Lifter has been fairly immune to blight in my garden the past few years, so I always grow a few of that variety for insurance. They are large and tasty too although on the late side. Give em a try! And don't forget to plant a couple of Early Girl too.


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

Big Zac was bullet proof last year for me. Brandy Boy got sick before all others in my garden. In general my RL plants stayed healthier longer than the PL ones I planted.


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

Here are two that "claim" to be blight resistant. It does not mention early or late blight. I thinking it is late blight though.

There is product sold by Johnny's Seed that is supposed to be good for blight as well as many other diseases. It is a hydrogen peroxide based product that doesn't break down when exposed to light. Here is the company site:http://www.biosafesystems.com/product_oxidate.asp

Here is a link that might be useful: Blight Resistant Tomatoes


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

Quote:
I can't speak for your state but here in NYS one has to have a pesticide license to purchase/use Bravo or Quadris.

End Quote:
__________________________________________________
Sorry but wrong again,

Anyone 18 and older can walk in and buy/use either.

Here is the list of NYS pesticides.


Scroll down to pg. 55 for Bravo weatherstick (Daconil only stronger)

Pg. 260 for Quadris.

Notice in the "Restricted" column neither one is.

The only product(s) one needs a pesticide license to buy/use are the ones with "Restricted" in the restricted column.

Here is a link that might be useful: List of NYS pesticides


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

I did not read the whole thread but I guess I am just lucky I have not had any foliar disieses yet. Might be because I am growing in containers.


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

Sorry but wrong again,

****

Wrong again Timmy?

Lets say that about 6-7 years ago what I said was the case. If things are different now, as they obviously are, I wouldn't know it.

When I lived an hour south of here there was one commercial farmer I knew very very well and it was at his farm that I grew my several hundreds of varieties and plants. And yes he used Bravo and Quadris and yes, he had to take continual refresher courses to keep his pesticide license, that I know.

I knew what was then, but obviously not now.

Mea Culpa.

Carolyn


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

  • Posted by farkee 10 B South Fl. (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 15, 08 at 0:18

Carolyn: If it's really Early Blight ( A.solani) that you have there are no varieties, hybrid or OP that have any significant tolerance to that foliage disease, with a couple of exceptions that are of no use to the home gardener.

Carolyn, I thought I remembered reading in your book that there were heirloom and OP tomatoes (particularly potato leaf) where you said they did have significant tolerance to foliage diseases (both fungal and bacterial).

Went to check and was surprised that you mentioned so many that were 'tolerant' all the way to "quite tolerant" and even better.

You mentioned 15 varieties that you characterized as being "quite tolerant" to foliage diseases (FD). There were 3 that were "very tolerant", 3 "that almost never suffers from FD". 1 "especially tolerant". Three had "excellent tolerance". Others fell under terms "good tolerance", "remarkably tolerant", "resistant", and "not susceptible". Nine were labeled only "tolerant" to foliage diseases but that is still better than no tolerance at all.

All told 47 were recommended as being "tolerant" to "quite tolerant", all the way to "excellent tolerance". One tom. was even singled out as being included in a study and found to offer better tolerance than the other OP and hybrids tested. Certainly these recommendations would be a huge plus for anyone with foliage disease.

You characterized 3 of the 47 as tolerant specifically in your own garden--the rest (44) just states the tolerance level as described above.


Curious why you don't mention all of the varieties (38 of them) you found "quite tolerant" and even better in your book when you say that there are no heirlooms or hybrids of any use to the home garden when it comes to battling foliage disease?

In contrast , 6 tomatoes were described as being "somewhat susceptible" to "quite susceptible" to Early Blight.


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

  • Posted by doof SoCal 10a (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 15, 08 at 0:19

Last year I kept spraying and spraying with Daconil, and it didn't help. I'm sure it was because I was doing other things wrong (over-watering, sloppy pruning). Adding Mancozeb seemed to help, although I had some panicky moments that I posted about here where I didn't think it was going to do the trick.

There's another spray you can try, as well, an organic bacterial spray called Serenade. Somebody here recommended it. I had some concerns about using it in conjunction with heavy artillery like Daconil and Mancozeb, that perhaps they would kill the Serenade organisms. I called the Serenade manufacturers and asked them if it was safe to use them together, and they gave me a huge run-around, eventually giving me some lawyer-approved statement that there product should never be used with ANYTHING ELSE IN THE WORLD. I only wanted to know if the Daconil/Mancozeb would render it inactive, but they seemed to get the idea I was asking if it might make it toxic, thus the useless answer they gave.

I've been using the Serenade this year, but on separate sprayings. I have NO idea if the left-over Daconil/Mancozeb kills it. What the hell, though, I already paid for it, might as well use it up.


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

carolyn137,

I am new to this Tomato forum. First I would like to thank you. I looked everywhere in 2007 for info on mixing Daconil with other things. Got Zip!! Did I call Ortho?? Duh,duh, and duh!! Should smack myself. Thanks for the info you posted here about not mixing Daconil.

I had been totally away from the veggie gardening arena for many years due to arthritis. Most of the chemicals we used back then (1980's) are no longer available. Back then I mixed lots of stuff - I did all of my shopping at a farm store so had access to lots of the info and chemicals that large farms were using.

Well anyway - Thanks!! Thanks to all other posters also.

Cheers,
DL


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

Curious why you don't mention all of the varieties (38 of them) you found "quite tolerant" and even better in your book when you say that there are no heirlooms or hybrids of any use to the home garden when it comes to battling foliage disease?

****

Your question is a fair one Farkee.

I have said many times that no variety, OP or heirloom has significant tolerance to foliage infections, which is not the same as saying they are of no use in the home garden.

Not all of the varieties in my book were grown in the same summer for direct comparison except for the summer of 1998 when they were all grown for photography purposes, and knowing that Daconil was used on a regular basis to preserve foliage as best I could for photographic purposes.

It was over a many year period of time that they were grown and some grown many more times than others.

I kept detailed reports in a notebook about everything I grew as to plant habit, leaf form and all the basic stuff and also wrote in the margin comments about diseases, which in my area are almost exclusively foliage diseases with only two cases of Verticillium in all the years I was growing tomatoes at that location.

One summer the Cornell Coop Ext asked if I'd participate in a study of foliage diseases and they provided two students to do the work, backed up by the Director of the office who taught them and was so very helpful to me in terms of teaching me the distinguishing traits of the foliage diseases.

When writing the text for each variety I went back to my notebooks and compiled my margin notes for any one variety as to foliage diseases.

Variety X may have had minimal foliage diseases in year X and when grown the next time none, and the next time some and on and on.

Some years an antifungal was used as sprayed by my farmer friend Charlie and some years not.So in some years there were less fungal diseases but perhaps more or less bacterial foliage diseases. Nothing was sprayed for bacterial foliage diseases/

What I wrote in my book was the sum total of my experience with any given variety. And that time span was from about 1983 to 1998.

So that was my own experience with the different varieties growing where I grew over a many year period of time under different disease pressures in each year.

Carolyn


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

  • Posted by farkee 10 B South Fl. (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 15, 08 at 17:16

Some years an antifungal was used as sprayed by my farmer friend Charlie and some years not

I am afraid that unless you grew them out WITHOUT the antifungal and at the same time grew them WITH the antifungal and then kept detail records over the years the observations of saying that something is extremely tolerant or highly tolerant or whatever would not be valid. Nor would your findings likely be replicated in other people's gardens. Unless, of course, they used daconil and that rather mutes the point of saying something is inherently or naturally tolerant of foliage diseases to begin with.

I don't understand what the research students from the extension and their superiors would be studying (for that one season) concerning foliage diseases without setting up the experiment with some controls.

Here is a pic of university research farm in NC--they opened it up for a field day seminar. They were studying growing tomatoes organically vs with conventional methods. Many plots with different variables were tested but you get the idea of how various suppositions are verified or disproved.

Photobucket


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

I am afraid that unless you grew them out WITHOUT the antifungal and at the same time grew them WITH the antifungal and then kept detail records over the years the observations of saying that something is extremely tolerant or highly tolerant or whatever would not be valid. Nor would your findings likely be replicated in other people's gardens. Unless, of course, they used daconil and that rather mutes the point of saying something is inherently or naturally tolerant of foliage diseases to begin with.

****

I never represented those disease comments as being anything other than what I experienced in my garden. Had I known I was going to be asked to write a book I'm sure I would have done things differently. But I didn't know that in 1997 I'd be asked and all I could do was to read thru my data notebooks.

The fact is that disease pressures for fungal diseases ARE different each year and so folks have to find out for themselves how their varieties planted do for them where they are. And it's also true that not that many folks grow the same varieties on a continual basis. Sure, each of us have faves that we like to plant each year, but I doubt that is true of many.

Farkee, I don't want to debate this with you, b'c I had no choice in what I could report in the book given that the majority of varieties were grown and cared for before I knew I was going to be writing the book.

I did the best I could at that ime, and as I said, had I known back in 1983 when I first started growing lots of OP's what might happen in 1997 I surely would have done things differently. I didn't so I couldn't.

******
I don't understand what the research students from the extension and their superiors would be studying (for that one season) concerning foliage diseases without setting up the experiment with some controls.

******
The single control was no Daconil for both the OP's and hybrids that were planted that summer per discussions with the person supervising the students.

Carolyn


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

Carolyn
I love your book. I read it. I read it again. I show it to friends and fellow gardeners. I keep it in the living room for quick reference when I need it or for when I just want to look at some pictures of tomatoes during the winter. I picked several varieties for last year from your book and have no complaints. I'll try a few more this year. I know you don't need defending but I'm really glad you wrote the book and I love it.


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

  • Posted by farkee 10 B South Fl. (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 16, 08 at 1:12

Farkee, I don't want to debate this with you

I read your derogatory comments (along with others) scrutinizing the work of WW Weaver elsewhere--didn't know your own work was exempt from wanting to know the basis of important observations.

I am staring at potato leaf plants that are just as diseased as the regular leaf ones growing next to them. I used no daconil. Just as you want to see an accurate historical background on tomatoes I like to see the same standard applied to the data used to state the disease tolerance of a variety.

And I don't want to debate this either--I don't care if you took the notes prior to knowing you were going to write a book. You wrote the book using them. I presume you would not have used them if you knew they were flawed due to a lack of controls.

If you stand by your observations concerning the widespread tolerance of these 47 OP tomatoes and were able to determine this despite the daconil applications , so be it. Should be easy to replicate elsewhere by those who do not use daconil and by devising more controlled experiments. I know you stressed the disease tolerance of PL heirlooms/OP again in a recent article.

Otherwise disease tolerance descriptions of OP and heirlooms using unsubstantiated conclusions
based on flawed data or old notes just adds misinformation much like the made-up histories that you abhor.


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

I read your derogatory comments (along with others) scrutinizing the work of WW Weaver elsewhere--didn't know your own work was exempt from wanting to know the basis of important observations.

+++++

The issues you speak of are completely different, one from another, and you know that as well. And as you know I was not the only one pointing out some problems with the tomato history being discussed, as you did acknowledge above.

******

Otherwise disease tolerance descriptions of OP and heirlooms using unsubstantiated conclusions
based on flawed data or old notes just adds misinformation much like the made-up histories that you abhor.

*****

The data is not flawed, it was what I experienced in my own tomato patch.

The conclusions were not unsubstantiated at all for the conclusions were based on observations.

If you want to believe that my observations were flawed, there's nothing stopping you from doing that but I find it hard to believe you could do that when you yourself were not there to observe what I observed.

Farkee, I've known you for many years and I've never seen you write this way and challenge the way you have, especially after I've told you everything that I could.

There is really nothing more I can tell you that you asked about.

If you don't want to accept what I've said, then don't, b'c there's nothing more I can say on this subject and won't.

Carolyn


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

  • Posted by farkee 10 B South Fl. (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 16, 08 at 4:59

Farkee said: If you stand by your observations concerning the widespread tolerance of these 47 OP tomatoes and were able to determine this despite the daconil applications , SO BE IT.

I obviously accepted what you wrote and your explanations. (Don't have enough empirical proof to agree or disagree.) I would hope that any tolerance attached to a specific variety could be verified. I don't see it with my limited experience with no daconil use.

The issues you speak of are completely different, one from another, and you know that as well

I am sorry, I don't see a difference in showing concern about how histories were derived or the data that suggests disease tolerance.


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

If you want to believe that my observations were flawed, there's nothing stopping you from doing that but I find it hard to believe you could do that when you yourself were not there to observe what I observed.

That's what the Fleischmann and Pons said when their findings on cold fusion couldn't be independently confirmed, and were later found to be frauds.

I had more confidence in your scientific method Carolyn.

--->Rob


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

Back on topic ...

Mule is correct, the development of early blight spores to the point of invading the interior of the plant tissue cannot progress without sufficient moisture present to hydrate the spores REGARDLESS of how the spores arrive onto the leaf surface.

If the spores arrive via "windblown," they most likely are not sufficiently hydrated when then land. Splashed-on spores are another matter ... yes, they are hydrated. But, more to my point ...

Mule's advice is valid: Proper cultural practices will minimize the transmission and hydration of spores. FIRST, properly clean up your garden at the end of the season. Remove litter; bag, burn, bury. Clean out (kill) and clean up (bag, burn, bury) wild or feral host plants in the vicinity of your garden.

Use an INTEGRATED DISEASE MANAGEMENT PROGRAM: Plant resistant cultivars; practice good garden hygiene (dont' walk among your plants when they are rain-wetted or covered with dew, santitize your pruning and weeding tools, etc.); employ known successful cultural practices such as Mule's recommendations regarding spacing and orientation to prevailing wind and sunlight, along with PRUNING (gasp) to promote air circulation and foliage drying; spray with approved chemicals when needed, ALWAYS following explicit labelling directions ... NEVER follow anecdotal advice regarding chemical applications. (BTW, giving anecdotal advice regarding chemical applications actually may violate state or federal law if the advice contradicts label directions since "the label is the law" with regard to chemicals.)

Since the gardener should ALWAYS use an integrated control program, KNOWLEDGE of RESISTANT CULTIVARS is of GREAT IMPORTANCE to the HOME GARDENER! <<< I cannot emphasize this enough. That was the original question of this topic and it is a VALID QUESTION that should be answered to benefit the original poster as well as all home gardeners who are plagued with early blight.

Resistance is a T-O-O-L in the toolbox of gardening success. Success, even if minimal, encourages repeat seasons. Remember the "Disease Triangle" explained above ... if one of the corners of the Triangle does not exist in your garden, the disease cannot fully develop.

For paste/saladette try Dr. Gardner's "Plum Crimson" specifically developed with resistance to Early Blight.

Open pollinated slicer types include, as Mule indicated, Campbells 1943. You might also try West Virginia 63, developed by the University of West Virginia specifically to resist Early Blight.

There surely are other cultivars for the gardener plagued with Early Blight; and other folks should enumerate them, whether hybrid or open pollinated, to benefit our gardening friends who have to fight blight.

Good growing, Bobkatt!

Bill


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

Bill, I've elected not to respond to several of your comments in the above post, but I would like to note that Johnny's Selected Seeds is listing an Early Blight tolerant tomato.

My catalog is out in the front room but I know it just is named JTO something with a number.

So that's another one to try for folks who have Early Blight (A.solani) problems and don't want to use Daconil, for instance.

Carolyn


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

Product ID: 2240 JTO-99197 F1 hybrid tomato:
"Resistant to Early Blight (Alternaria solani), the scourge of tomato growers in the Northeast, Mid-Atlantic states, and Midwest. This late-maturing, vigorous determinate produces high yields of large, globe-shaped, blemish-free fruit with very few culls and lower susceptibility to early blight than other varieties. Well suited for vine-ripe production, with very good check resistance, uniform ripening, and beautiful red color. Mini: 20 seeds." (78 DTM)



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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

  • Posted by lightt 6/7 Northern VA (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 17, 08 at 16:31

Johnny's Selected Seeds JTO-99197 F1 hybrid tomato:
Resistant, vigorous, high yields, blemish-free -- but not one word about how it tastes!! I wonder why...

Terry Light
Oak Hill, Virginia


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

but not one word about how it tastes!! I wonder why...
Good comment. Maybe very few here have grown JTO-99197 F1. I did read elsewhere that it had decent taste. However, det tom plants have done very poorly for me. Succumbing to various foliar blights before frosts take them down, even with some application of fungicide. So there is no way I will try JTO-99197 this season. If you just spray your plants several times in the season with an effective fungicide, most plants will survive the fungal attacks such that a large portion of the late harvest potential is realized.

Reg


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

I've had all sorts of problems including blight and my apparent black thumb.
Old fashioned Rutgers was always my best.


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

I live in Vermont and my tomato plants have wiped out by blight the last two years. I usually plant 60 to 70 plants of mostly paste tomatoes that my wife converts into sauce. No sauce the last two years.

Last year I tried regular spraying with fresh Bordeaux mix and Ortho's Garden Problem Solver. However, once the cool damp weather started the disease spread like wild fire and killed the plants before most could produce ripe fruit. For what it's worth Big Beef seemed a little more resistant than Celebrity. I've grown several other beefsteaks and slicers in the past but these two always seem to do the best. With the paste tomatoes, Classica faired much better than Super Marzano, Viva Italian and Halley 3155. I thought that was peculiar since Classica is a more sprawling plant. I also tried Johnnys blight resistant JTO-99197 last year. It faired about as well as Big Beef but succumbed to disease before producing ripe fruit nonetheless.

All of my tomato plants were staked in rows, supported with polypropylene twine, and pruned. I did not mulch. Right now Im thinking Ill skip growing tomatoes for a few years, or maybe just a couple heavily mulched Big Beef plants in a far corner of the garden. Its kind of a bummer to garden without tomatoes but the last two years have been too much work with no return.

Oregon State Univ. has produced a new variety called Legend that has been reported as having some blight resistants. Maybe I'll try a few of those this year.

Good luck to all with your tomato plants this year.


 o
RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

Oregon State Univ. has produced a new variety called Legend that has been reported as having some blight resistants. Maybe I'll try a few of those this year.

****

Legend, bred by Dr. James Baggett at OSU ( now retired) was introduced several years ago as having tolerance to Late Blight ( P.infestans), not Early Blight( A. solani). And feedback from the folks in the PNW re Late Blight, says it isn't very tolerant.

And I mention that b'c I'm on the other side of Egg MT (VT) on the NY side, and it's Early Blight that is our problem, not Late Blight.

You mentioned an Ortho Product above, but as several others above have mentioned, use of Daconil, a very good anti-fungal, does an excellentjob at preventing/controlling the fungal foliage pathogen diseases. But the Ortho product you want is Ortho Garden Disease Control.

I'm only a mile from the VT border and if I were to get to the top of Egg MT, which I can't do, I'd slide down into Manchester. If I went the other way down my road and made a right hand turn I'd be in VT in 5 min, home of the sanded, but not salted roads in winter. ( smile)

Carolyn


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

We had a bad episode of blight several years ago here in East Tennessee. We had the rutger tomatoes and marglobe.
The blight took out all the rutgers but never touched the marglobes. If it had not been for the marglobes, we would have had no tomatoes that summer. You can order the marglobe tomatoes from RHshumway.com Hope this helps.


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

Carolyn must be next to Salem Farm Supply.

Had an apple pie at the Cambridge Hotel. The apples were stacked in there like a stonewall :)


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

Carolyn must be next to Salem Farm Supply.
Had an apple pie at the Cambridge Hotel. The apples were stacked in there like a stonewall :)

****

Not next to Salem Farm Supply, but the town of Salem, not the village, yes, off a rural road that turns to dirt past my 30 acres and dead ends in VT at the base of Egg MT. ( smile)

And Salem Farm Supply you know b'c........

The Cambridge Hotel is back up and running well after closing two times and going through three chefs.

And for those of you who don't know, the Cambridge Hotel is the home, as it were, of Pie ala mode.

Carolyn, so Timmy knows I live in dairy country and you have to sign off when buying property here that you won't object to dairy related smells and trucks carrying silage clogging up your car's vital componenets. LOL


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RE: Best Hybrids resistant to Blight

I buy parts and equipment for the farm from Salem Farm supply. Took a ride over there to pick something up, Went out to Battenkill (Greenwich) for something else. Stopped at the Cambridge Hotel for lunch on the way back.

Didn't know we were in your dooryard or we would have stopped.

Sorry, did't mean to hyjack, but I knew that would get Carolyn's attention.


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