I am quite happy with Rubbermaid's 31 gallon "Roughneck" container. Much stronger and excellent dimensions for my application than Walmart types. My goal is to employ an internal staking system for two tomato plants per container. I am also incorporating the "stock" Automated Watering System (AWS) from the EarthBox Company, and modifying the fill tube length to adapt to my deeper container.

Some of the recent design changes are a result of actual empirical test data. The key "mistake" I made in the original design was to cut out the wicking orifice exactly to match the 9"x9" water basket I purchased from Home Depot. As this was the only model they carried, I was stuck with using this product. The error I made was by simply cutting the opening to exactly fit the basket, I wound up with an overly large 76 sq. inches of wicking area into the potting soil.

In actual use, I am experiencing far too high moisture levels in the growing mix. The darn Miracle Grow with Moisture Control is simply TOO efficient at wicking the water from the reservoir!!.

So what I am experimenting with today is throttling back the capillary action by reducing the orifice opening with two trial size openings (45 sq. inches, and an even more constrained 26 sq. inches). My goal is to find the right opening to yield a "moist" result on the meter throughout the container.

Regarding the staking system, in order to give the outer leg better rigidity, I have moved the AWS fill tube to the center edge of the Aeration Bench, see below:

So for those who are also in their DYI Earthbox construction process, learn from my experiences to avoid making my mistakes.

Raybo

Raybo

How large were your containers (gallons)?

I really need to get two plants per container as I have 27 varieties I want to grow this year, and want "back-up" by planting two plants of each type of my "A" List ones. Net is 25 containers total needed.

Raybo

It would replace my "basket" wicking container, which I've had to line with netting so the soil in it doesn't escape into the water chamber.

I haven't had a problem with too much water in the soil with the setup I made, but a cone of this sort would obviate the need for a basket AND netting to keep the soil in the wick.

Question for Ray and Atascosa, what height of pond basket are you using?

Also Ray, I posted a question to you over on the "Container tomato Pics" thread regarding the EB AWS if you could visit and reply please.

I applaud your support system, it looks very stout!

After several failed attempts at staking on both the EB and homemade containers I came up with this solution:
1. I purchased some 5/8" diameter, 10' long electrical conduit at Lowes, can't recall the price but was relatively cheap a couple of years ago.
2. Cut into either 5' or 6' long sections (your preference)and secured them with plastic ties thru drilled holes on opposite ends of the rubbermaid container (long ends, center). I recommend securing with 2 ties per stake, one at the top of the container and one just above the bottom support--I made the mistake of placing it too low without thinking and had a leak from the water reservoir.
3. Purchased some 90 degree PVC elbows, I like the ones with one end threaded, secures the pipe to PVC fitting better and placed them on the ends of the upright conduit stakes.
4. Measured and cut another piece of conduit to fit between the PVC fittings (threaded ends).
5. Then just used twine and later on 6" x 6" netting to keep the plant in place.
6. Momma requested another color than silver so I spray painted black, you can use whatever color you'd like.

This system worked remarkably well, very sturdy and I did not have any problems with the containers tipping over from the weight of the tomato plant. Also I have to move my container around on the deck when the hail storms come so I needed a mobile system, not a support system that was built for numerous containers. Unfortunately I don't have my camera with me or I'd post some pictures, maybe later on this spring when I dump out last years mix and start afresh.

Many thanks,

Alan

Also this is my first try at this type of container, I was planning on using big plastic folgers coffee cans with tops and botttoms cut out, drilled full of holes for the wick. Is this too big for the 18 gallon box?

I am now trialing a cutout that is approx 40 sq. inches to see if this will keep moisture content in the "moist" range on my meter.

For an 18 gallon container, the surface area of a coffee can sounds about right. But as I am learning, it is a bit of trial and error due to our weather, type of potting mix used, plant intake, etc.

Raybo

Conduit is on the inside.

Regarding the plastic folgers cans, keep in mind that whatever object you use to contain the wick soil has to support the weight of moist soil above. I don't know if it would handle it. However if you do use don't cut both ends off, just one end as the bottom will help stabilize the rest of the can. Personally I'd use something else, I've seen pictures that people have posted using kid's plastic sand buckets, anything will do as long as it's strong enough.

Good luck,

Alan

I went ahead and ordered the EB AWS for 12 units. I went out this morning and was doing some measuring on my containers, here's what I've got:
1. 18 gallon Rubbermaid, height is +/- 16"
2. ABS 1.5" dia pipe 20" tall
3. Pond basket - 5 1.4" height
4. Height to bottom of drain hole - 4 1/4"
5. Height from aeration bench to top of container - 10.75"

You mention that the height of the fill tube has to be less than 15.5"--why is this? Will these dimensions above work with the AWS valve units?

thanks,

Alan

This is what i used!

thank you

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kumato/2350491226/

I went out and bought a pair of shears pretty close to yours but am still having a heck of a time cutting the plastic. I can make side cuts into the plastic no problem. My difficulty is how to get the scissors to cut when the they are wedged into the incision. The space is so tight that scissors won't effectively fit and appropriately 'scissor. Ugh this is a nightmare!

Any tips?

what I do when cutting in to the plastic, is to pry up one of the just cut pieces so you can keep you cutting hand on a level plane with the about-to-be-cut material.

Also, I have found cutting the Rubbermaid container plastic with good quality kitchen scissors (the ones that will cut through chicken bones) actually works better for me than the tin shears, as they don't get jammed in the seam as much. Dear Wife is not too happy about my taking her Cutco scissors out in the garden - - but I haven't lost them yet!!!

Raybo

Got any tips when you are cutting a completely enclosed area such as the wick opening in the bench and the interior of the lid? Prying away the just-cut piece works when cutting the tote since you can make a perpendicular cut to free one 'side' of the cut but in those fully enclosed areas where you don't want a lateral, I can envision how to achieve the same effect.

I'm thinking I should have just bought the earthboxes!

Sumilea

I simply drilled 1/4" holes in each corner for the wicking basket, then used my sabersaw to cut between the holes.

Look in the corners to see what's left of the drill holes. I actually stacked 3 of the aeration benches on top of each other to do the hole drilling and wicking basket cutout, which saved a lot of time and effort!!

Raybo

Here are half of the 'Taniers in my prime (sunny) spot in the yard after receiving their fertilizer strip.

As I have a mechanical divider in the middle of the 'Tainer, I am placing the 2 fertilizer strips opposite the central wicking basket.

I am also doing some "A/B" comparisons which I will detail in a week or so.

With the fertilizer (and Mycro Fungi, in some) ready to go, the mulch and retaining covers go down.

...and the first 24 of 48 tomatoes are in sleeping for the night.....

...maybe the Easter Bunny will finish the other 24 for me tomorrow......?

Raybo

The wall of the house faces due South. During the Summer, I get direct sun overhead. Have to use a garden shade in August to prevent sun scald.

Ray

I use a metal flour scoop to load (and unload) the mix. I do plan to keep the 'Tainers in production throughout the year by planting snow peas, and other cool weather crops when tomato season ends here. Yes, getting mix into and out of the 'Tainer is a bit more difficult with the tomato cages in place, but it can be relatively easily done if careful.

Raybo

I was thinking that next to the overflow hole toward the base of the container, I could add another hole for the watering tube, probably skip the drippers on the ends, and set it all up on a timer? (The link below is without the timer, but they have the same kit with timer for $54.95.) It seems that with the earthbox system, I would have to buy a separate timer if I want one. I plan to buy one of those splitters for the outdoor spigot, and hook it all up there.

I have no experience with the watering systems or earthtainers, so I am wondering what people think about the two systems? Do you think the advantage of the sensor system makes earthbox's system more appropriate? What do you think of the idea of filling at the base instead of the fill tube? Has anyone tried other systems? I appreciate any thoughts and suggestions!
hoppity

If I can give you one word of advise, please do NOT try to use a drip type watering system for Earthboxes. The water uptake by each plant will vary widely. Compounding this, as all of the plants grow through the warm season, the water uptake demands will increase dramatically. The drip system will underwater, or over-water your EBs - GUARANTEED!!!!!

You are far better off with the EarthBox Company's watering system as it has a "shut-off" switch which fills EACH individual EB to a precise level (and no more) then only parses new water into the reservoir as the plant "drinks". Result: no wasted water spilling out the drain hole EVER!

How many containers are you planning to water? What is the height of your container? What is the height of your wicking basket? Answer me these, and I can calculate how long the new filler tube would need to be. Also, if you wind up with a few extra watering units, I would be happy to buy your extras, as I will be adding new EarthTainers to my system, for sure.

Raybo

I was planning on exactly 12 18-gallon containers with one plant each. But now I am thinking of either adding six 31 gal or making almost all of them 31 gal. I have been buying a little at a time to spread out the cost, so have the supplies for only three 18gal containers so far. It sounds like the sensor/shut off switch stops the water at the right time for each container? So does that mean it would work with different sized containers (some 18 gal and some 31 gal)?

I also haven't found a wicking basket, but have only checked at 2 lowe's stores. I may look for an online source or try to find a pond specialty center. Have been trying to think of other options, such as cutting old plant containers to height (5" or 6") and drilling holes in them - I suppose it wouldn't hurt the water the way PVC apparently does. So, I'm afraid I can't get you those measurements yet, but I will! I'll also measure the sizes of the totes. I don't think I'll have extra watering units - it looks like I may need more too! If you don't mind me asking, what size/height of basket would you suggest for the 18 and 31gal totes?
Thanks again!
hoppity

The critical element is that the new filler tube, replacing the stock 12" one from EarthBox, can be no longer than 15 1/2", assuming you are using a 6" high wicking basket. I got mine at Home Depot (little hard to find in the Garden area where they have pond filters. $2.19 each).

I wouldn't attempt to grow 2 tomato plants in an 18 gal tote (although others have done it) as the plants will crowd each other. My "rationalization" for the 31 gal size was that it could easily hold 2 plants; and I only needed one wicking basket, one filler tube, and one AWS unit. Divide those costs over the 2 plants, and you can see the economies on a per-container basis.

Raybo

No problem at all to help you. When you get all the materials assembled, email me and I can walk you through the first build. Specific drill sizes are needed, and drill hole locations. Are you planning on using the self-contained tomato cages, or will you build a trellis as "Bingster" did?

Raybo

I just picked up my pieces -- I think I got the same bins and basket as Raybo, 1.5" PVC pipe (I'm not so convinced about the danger of PVC in this application), and I grabbed a 5-gallon paint strainer bag which fits perfectly twice over the basket for extra potting mix retention.

A couple of questions ...

1. Is anyone trying to go pure organic in one of these? I'm planning to mix up a peat/peat humus/compost mix with a generous helping of vermiculite, but I'm concerned about getting as good a wicking action as Raybo has with the Miracle Gro moisture control.

2. I'm a little skeptical of the fertilizer strip method -- does the dry fertilizer really move down into the soil in the absence of top-watering? And does anyone use a water-soluble fertilizer in their reservoir?

Awesome work Raybo (and Josho too) designing and documenting. I can't wait to see how they do.

Kelly

I found 9 or 10 inch baskets (not sure which), and 31 gal totes. The totes were awfully expensive so I only bought 2 for making the first 'tainer. (gonna have to look for a sale somewhere!) Still need to get the c-pvc pipes that are okay for drinking water. I am worried about the baskets being too big, so don't know what to do about that. How are your experiments going? Still, I am ready to start cutting and drilling. I figured I'd use a quarter inch bit for the drill. Is that what you mean?

Re the trellis/cage plans - I have been struggling to decide. Since I haven't had much luck with tomato plants in the past, I hesitate to do anything large, although I know the plants are supposed to get big. The tainers will be on view from the neighborhood mailboxes, so I want it to look nice enough to avoid the neighborhood HOA. Ideally, it would also provide some privacy, and yet not feel closed in. I like the idea of a wooden A-frame type trellis that stands on the ground outside the tainers and can maybe serve as the frame of a sort of hot-house tunnel. I could hinge the two sides at the top so it would fold flat for storage. I also like the idea of those cattle panels, like coated concrete reinforcing wire. Instead of forming a circle, I might be able to shape it to fit the 'tainers, or put two together as an A-frame. I'm afraid your set-up looks far to complex for me still, and the pvc type like bingster's would also be complex and seems to require a lot of pruning. -- This post got long - feel free to ignore the excess.

Kelly, since I'm new to this, I can't help much with your questions. I would also like to go organic and saw some miracle-gro organic mix for containers when I was looking. It's expensive and it's hard for me to think of miracle gro as organic, but it seems a nice ready-made option. I think you might get more answers if you post the question on a new thread.

hoppity

How many tainers are you thinking about building this year?

I purchased the bronze colored ones at Lowes for $9.00 (on sale from their normal $11.00 price). Use the 1.5" I.D. black ABS pipe for the watering tube. $4.51 for a 10 ft. length at Home Depot.

For the wicking basket cutout, undersize the cut in the aeration bench (recommend a 6" by 8.5" hole cut-out), then center the basket and secure with #8 by 1/2" self-tapping screws.

Rather than using the cattle pen fence for the tomato support, I would really recommend either your idea of the A-frame, or my method of the self-container 54" high tomato cages ($5.32 each at Walmart). It takes about 30 minutes to drill and assemble the 2 cages into the aeration bench - with simple tools. I can walk you through the cage assembly process once you get the tainer aeration bench drilled and the wicking basket mounted. Remember, you will need a 1.5" hole saw to cut out a hole in the aeration bench for the filler tube.

Raybo

I started a new thread regarding the EarthTainer self-contained tomato cage summary instructions here:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tomato/msg032104014727.html

Raybo

Go to this (new) link at TomatoFest for full construction and planting instructions. If you follow the potting mix recommendations shown in the .pdf, you should get tomatoes similar to those of mine shown in the photos. I am 40 miles south of you in San Jose, so even though you are a bit cooler in your area, you should have good success.

Here is a photo of my Big Beef plant (to the right of the cart):

Raybo

Raybo

Cut straight across (for simplicity) with two 3/8" holes drilled in the water end. See the photo of the filler tube in the .pdf

Raybo

Just two quick questions.
How many cubic feet of mix do each 31 gallon container need ?
and
Have you found a use yet for the top part of the container that you cut off to make the aeration bench ?

Thanks,
Rob

My 'Tainers hold approx 3.25 cubic ft.

I take the scrap top cut-out and make a mechanical divider inserted between the 2 plants to keep the roots isolated. I can also then do different brand fertilizer and soil amendment evaluations.

Raybo

I just took 20 sucker clippings to root for my Fall crop form the ones now producing fruit.

Can you send me the link to the article in the San Luis Obispo paper you reference? Just curious to see if it was a reprint of Holly Hayes Mercury News article of June 14.

Also, go to this website for the latest .pdf construction guide. Click on the "In The News" tab to get the .pdf.

http://earthtainer.org/Home_Page.html

Raybo

Ray, do you have a materials list for the EartTainer in any of these posts or somewhere online?

A very kind person compiled the list of components and tools necessary for the EarthTainer build. I will be adding this list in the next Rev change. Here it is for now:

EarthTainer Materials List

Rubbermaid 31 gal Roughneck 2
9x9x6 Pond Filtration basket 1
#8 x 1/2 Self-tapping screws 4
1 1/2" Sch 40 PVC 19"
Coat Hanger 20"
Aerosol Can Cap 1
Cork 1

FOR TOMATO CAGES
18" x 54"x 3/16" Hvy Duty Tomato Cage 2
1/8" Wire Rope Clip 15
3/16" x 1 1/4" Fender Washers 8
Zip Ties
30 Gal Trash Bag 1
Plastic Clothespins 4
3/16" x 2" Toggle Bolt 2

2nd Story Cages
18" x 54"x 3/16" Hvy Duty Tomato Cage 2
1/8" Wire Rope Clip 1
Zip Ties

Tools Needed
Sabre Saw
Drill
Adjustable wrench
Flat & Phillips Screw drivers
Scissors
Safety Goggles
Marker
1/8" drill bit
3/16" drill bit
3/8" drill bit
1/2" drill bit
2" hole saw

Raybo

I am sure that you have had numerous suggestions on improving construction. My suggestion does not improve upon it but does lower costs.
The wire on the tomato cages from Lowe's I purchased was 3/16 diameter so I simply threaded them to a 10-24 thread then used 2 nuts and 2 fender washers per leg sandwiched to assemble to the base/basket assembly.
on all 8 legs.
My cost for the wire rope clips .70 each times the 14 8 on the top and 6 on the bottom = 9.80 saving $.
You will need a vice (to clamp wire leg solidly) and a 10/24 die and handle to do this plus a little lubricating oil. (vice, die and handle available at any hardware store).
If you chose to use this feel free to due so just state this add on was due to Big Alan from Gulfport, MS, hey I need my bragging rights.
ps. please forward this so others can sve on costs

Yep, that is an excellent suggestion, if you have the die and tools to thread the legs. What would the cost be for those of us who do not have the threading die and tools? It would seem if you are going to make a quantity of the cages, then the self threading approach would be a worthwhile investment.

The link I put in the instructions for the wire rope clips has them priced (or at least it did when I bought mine 6 months ago) for about $0.15 each when you buy 100. Locally at hardware stores like ACE, I recall paying $0.40 for them. You don't need the drop-forged higher cost ones at Home Depot - - only the cheaper malleable ones.

See link:

http://www.pambinaimpex.com/servlet/Categories?category=Wire+Rope+Clip s%3A1/8%22+clips

Raybo

Original instructions state using cable clamps which cost .70 cents each times the 14 required = 9.80+ sales tax so it is +$10.00 less per box to thread legs nuts and washers you probably have already on hand. (Note use fender washers).

All you need is a vice to hold the legs while threading a 10-24 die and a die handle plus a little oil.

Happy Gardening

Big Alan

Raybo, I really like your idea on the earthtainers just trying to have different alternatives for the same end results.

My garbage pick up here are in large containers with wheels that you take to the curb where a mechanical arm from the truck picks it up and dumps it into the truck.

I will see if I can get some of these from the county that are no longer service able for garbage pick up and convert to SUPER SIZED earthtainers. I will let the board know if they work out.

As for cost of die and handle I would guess about 10-12 dollars. (Cost of a vice I would suggest buying the biggest you can afford as they are so useful with an anvil on the back you can hammer on it)

Another alternative I am using since I have it is a box banding strap to apply the extra side support that are attached to the side eye bolts running through the tomato cage. If others have access at work the 1/2 inch wide nylon straps should be plenty strong.

Though I am a novice gardener and have much to learn. I am an experienced machinist with lathes, milling machines, welders, woodworking equipment excreta. (Cut all 8 of my 31 gallon earthtainer soil benches in about 5 minutes with the table saw)

Thanks Raybo for your hard work on the earthtainer and all the info you have provided free of charge.

Big_Alan

That's what I did with my parent's plants last year.

The rest I really like and they had fantastic success with.

Did you place the base of the CRW in the container, or did you "wrap" the entire container with the CRW sitting on the ground? How did you support the tomato vines growing in the center of the container? Any photos would be appreciated. This sounds like a great approach as the 2 cages in the EarthTainer design are "locked" into the base of the 'Tainer, and it makes season-end cleanout more difficult. Simply lifting off the CRW rectangle would offer a great alternative.

Raybo

wrapped arround the exterior resting on the ground.
The 'tainers were on concrete.

I gave your 'tainers as gift to my parental units.

> Any photos would be appreciated
Only one pic is available. That guy's 6' 5" tall.
Zone 7ish, The Great PNW.

My parents planted one big and one small plant(tiny tims) per 'tainer.

There was so much space with the CRW, supporting the center was not needed. Just aim all suckers at the CRW. Weave them up the tainers as they grew. No need to tie them to supports. The weave holds the plants stead.

The CRW was cut into two halves. Each half wrapped arround half the 'tainer with 3 twisties holding it together.
The CRW stacks easier at the end of year when in halves.

The plants got so big they had to extend the cages.

> Simply lifting off the CRW rectangle would offer a great alternative.
Cut 6x twisties per 'tainer. stack CRW away somewhere, done.

Asides: My parents results were so spectacular that I am going mostly earth'tainer this year. I suspect tainers
will also help with my slug problem.

I even spread the word to of 'tainers to a lady in guam.
She's using them too. Not sure of the results yet.

Question # 2 has anyone tried reflective mylar instead of black plastic for the mulch cover? And if so how did it work out?

1. Using "Jungle Mix" from Lowe’s 3 cu ft size it takes 1.5 bags per tainer.

2. Installed Earthbox Automatic watering system.

3. Mounted the tainers on a 24 foot flat bed trailer.

1. Others that can may be interested to doing the tainers on trailers.
2. Late frost forecast, hail storms, bad weather just hook up and put in garage
3. Trailers that are not highway serviceable are cheap .Bald tires so so bearings ect.
4. Less stooping and bending.
5. May be fewer bug problems since elevated (slugs, sow bugs ect.)
6. Too Hot mid summer move to some shade.

I am also trying some of the tainers with mylar and some with black plastic mulch covers.

I would be glad to post photos of my setup if someone would respond how to attach photos.

Happy Gardening

Big Alan

Wow! You've got motivation!

To post photos, you need to upload them to a service like flikr or photobucket. Save them first in Picasa and export to a temp file at 800 resolution. Once uploaded to photobucket, click on the html URL and copy it (Control c). Then open a GW thread and type your message and inset the html link doing a Control v where you want it in the message.

Raybo

All the potting mix has been added and finished the earthbox automatic watering sysem install and lime added to each that will get the tomatos.

Will add fertilizer strip when planting.

Big Alan

Did you use the EarthBox AWS units as is (not lengthening the 3/8" O.D. clear internal tubing). or did you use new tubing to adapt to the longer filler tube. For reference, I am using a 16" filler tube, and with the 4" high wicking basket, to keep the water reservoir constant at 3", I found a 12.5" length of tubing worked perfectly. See photo:

Raybo

Aren't the new wicking baskets actually 5" tall?
I got the ones you have pictured in you revised instructions, and they seem to be 5" D. at the opening, 4" wide at the end and 5" tall

The wicking basket is 5" diameter, and 4" tall. This is in Rev 1.5 of the Construction Guide. I am going to add the AWS system specs in Rev 1.6 in a few weeks.

Raybo

Either way, I got em :)
Now I just have to try and find the dang 3/16 cages.

Maybe I am missing something, but why isn't my approach of just using a 16" length of 1.5" PVC pipe as the filler tube (throw away the EarthBox supplied black filler tube), and lengthening the clear plastic pressure tube to 12.5" in length with a new section?

I am concerned that if the length of the clear pressure tube is too long, you may have too much "air" inside both the longer tube plus the bell where the water in the reservoir may have to go over the top of the bell to close off the inlet valve.

Raybo

Of course there are many ways to accomplish the same goals, I used the tubing that came with the "earthbox because the ears on the valve unit are made to fit the thin walls" of the black tubing.

Once I had all my boxes fabricated and leveled the trailer I mounted them on, I filled all the boxes to the overflow / drain hole level.

I connected all the fittings, turned the system on, then adjusted all 12 boxes in less than 5 minutes---no water when pushed down – as raised (black tubes) water will flow- push down .25 in water stops. Works perfectly.

If you adopt an AWS to your EarthTainers, you don't really care about the overflow hole, as the AWS will cut off the water flow to keep it at a maximum of 3" high in the water reservoir. In short, the water is never intended to flow out of the "Overflow" hole anymore with an AWS. Hint: If it DOES flow out, you've got a problem with the AWS not shutting off properly (or the bell is too high in the filler tube).

Regarding the length of the filler tube, you can't use the original one that comes in the EarthBox AWS kit. You need a new piece of 1.5" PVC pipe that is cut to a length of 16". The valve assembly will neatly fit INSIDE the 1.5" I.D. PVC pipe.

You then need to remove the clear plastic 1/4" I.D. from the valve and bell ends, and replace with a 12.5" new section.
Tip: Cut the old clear tubing about an inch from both the valve end and the bell end. Then dip the ends in a heated coffee cup of water. The tubing will then easily slide off the valve and bell pieces.

Raybo

Yes, I agree that your approach gives one a high degree of adjustability, and this will be important as you have the 'Tainers on a trailer that will probably not be perfectly level all the time.

For most of us that will have the 'Tainers on a static (level) surface, the ears of the AWS valve slip just perfectly inside the 1.5" PVC tube.

We are looking for you to post some pictures of your trailer set-up when you can.

Raybo

That has got to be the most innovative EarthTainer set-up I have ever seen!!

What are the mounds in the 2 center EarthTainers? I also see some reflective material as the cover mulch.

Too bad you couldn't transport that trailer in mid-Summer to schools, or other demonstration venues as it really shows what can be grown in containers. Great job!!

Raybo

The "humps are just scrap 4 inch pipe resting on soil to help tent water off will be removed when planted, the four tainers will be planted with corn later.

The reflective material is mylar I saw that earthbox was using it so I thought I would try it on some boxes, If it doesn’t work out well, black plastic is under it already. I will just cut it off.

Also built some cold frames from the scrap materials, cut off a 2 inch band to hold clear plastic in place and slit through rim so it would go over the AWS hose. Held to earthtainer with spring clamps. Picture pretty much shows it all.

Happy gardening

Big Al

I like to experiment and try different things; I once even made a silencer for a 9mm which I promptly melted down after trying it out, sounded like popping a champagne bottle. Since ATF has strict laws about them.

I rushed planting my tomatoes in my earthtainers as the forecast this week has lows in the mid 30’s.nights days 60’s Too cold, so each plant now has a 4 inch piece of PVC topped with clear plastic, wrapped 3 turns of heater wire used to prevent pipes from freezing.

Keeping the plants about 75 degrees and also covered with old towels to hold heat in. Will have to remove towels in the morning and disconnect heaters as not to bake them.

So I ordered a soil heater which I will try out that keeps soil at a constant 70 degrees. And with the cold frames made from recycled scrap from the earthtainers would let others get a jump start on growing.

But this will only work on earthtainers that do not have the built in tomato cages but use, as another poster suggested exterior CRW cages.

Thomas Edison was stated to have said "I have never had a failed experiment; I just know a lot of ways how not to make a light bulb".

I will let all here know how it works out.

Big Al

I just broke down and purchased the 6 box AWS system from Earthbox. I see from a few of your posts up what I need to do to fabricate them for the 'Tainers.
I will be running one Earthbox along with the 5 "Tainers.
I assume that the one for my regular earthbox will work fine unaltered in line with the altered ones for the 'Tainers?
ie..they are mutually exclusive of one another?

Thanks
Brian

Yes, each filler tube operates independently from the others. So just use the stock unit unmodified for your EarthBox.

For the 'Tainers, if you followed the Construction Guide with the 4" high wicking basket and 16" long filler tube, all you need to do is to replace the 1/4" I.D. clear tubing, with a new length 12.5" long. That will maintain a constant 3" depth of water in the reservoir.

It is difficult to pull off the old tubing from both the valve end and the bell end, so I simply cut the clear tubing about 2" from the valve end and also at the bell end, heat up some water in a coffee cup in the microwave, dip the 2" section of the tubing for 30 seconds, then just pull it off the valve and the bell. Slip on the new 12.5" section on both ends - - and you are done!!

Raybo

Thanks
Brian

Stop by your local Wal Mart and ask them to order the Glamos heavy duty 18" by 54" tomato cage. I've included the UPC that Raybo posted, they'll need this when they look it up. Our Wal Mart in FX,VA had only the light weight 36" and 42" size so I'm waiting for the order to come in later this week to finish building my earthtainers. Glad Ray had the UPC scanned.

George

Raybo

But on further thought, would not allow room for growth, so what I did was to cut off the cages 4 inch below the first hoop. This leaves "studs" protruding from the soil to reattach the cages once the plants need it. With wire rope clips.

This allowed me install the cold frames that I built with the leftovers from constructing the earthtainers. With the heater wire inside or others could use a light bulb for heat.

This will even make constructing easier and loading with plastic mulch and soil easier.

Simply buy 3/16 10-24 threaded ready rods at Lowe’s HD etc. attach with 2 nuts and 2 washers per leg to aeration bench "8 legs’" just cut them to extend 4 to 6 inch above the finished soil level.

Raybo this will eliminate threading as my previous suggestion and the only extra tool will be a metal hack saw blade either to fit jig saw or a hand saw. (Cut rod to length).

This will have numerous benefits

1. easier construction
2. easier loading
3. easier storage (stacking cages) that are removable
4. cold frame usage (get a jump on that last frost date) plus use waste from construction

One final note on the spring clamps to hold covers down drill a hole at the tips then put a #8 sheet metal screw in to keep them slipping off of the plastic.(give them a bite).

Raybo as always these suggestions are given for free and feel free to use them you may need to update if you use these to version 2.0.

Big Al

I'll be using bamboo tripods for growing support so no internal cages.

Yes, I really like your approach of using rods to then attach the cages to. This solves a lot of problems re: the fixed cages and cleaning out the 'Tainers at the end of the season. Can you post a few photos of how you attached the cage to the studs? Good stuff, Al. Keep it coming!!!

Raybo

OK here are the pictures of my last modification fist I cut the original cage legs 4 inch below first hoop. These I saved and threaded (or you could use 3/16 all thread rod).

Photo of rods the 2 on the left are from the cages and the 2 on the right are 3/16 all thread rod.

attach to aeration bench using 2 fender washers and 2 nuts.

Rods (studs) attached to aeration bench.

Cage attached to the studs.

View of clamps

My heart stopped when I just saw the picture of your aeration bench. That is the old design - - I replaced it last Novemmber with a smaller wicking basket as the large basket was pumping too much moisture up into the 'Tainer last season. Not to worry - - as it is pretty easy to modify the old model to the current Rev 1.5 design:

http://www.tomatofest.com/pdfs/EarthTainer-Construction-Guide.pdf

I have been trying to get the word out for everybody to use the improved Rev 1.5 design - - but somehow I must have missed you in the post exchanges here. SORRY!!!

Raybo

Yes, I know reworking them now may be a challenge - - but Big Alan seems quite innovative!

For corn, the old style EarthTainer will be fine. for tomatoes, I am concerned that they will be exposed to too much moisture. If he didn't want to rework the ones for the tomatoes, at least, I would drop the AWS sensor down an additional distance so that he had a water level of 2 inches. That would tend to throttle back the uptake (Alan's adjustable set-screw design is ideal to easily do this).

Raybo

Other than that I think having the cages removable will be much easier to work with.

I also ground spear points on the other end of the rods to make pushing the plastic and ground cloth over them easier.
If you do this you may want to cover them with a cork or something if you have kids. (honey, I need 8 bottles of wine for my earthtainer)

I learned from experience last season that it is not the size of the orifice that is the controlling metric. I actually experimented mid-summer with narrowing down the opening to a 1 inch wide slit - - and the potting mix still became too wet.

I am not a water hydrology Engineer, but my gut is telling me that the potting mix above the 9" by 9" wicking basket wants to "equalize" somehow with that big block of wet potting mix submerged below the aeration bench. The actual size of the orifice does not prevent this from happening.

Yes, if it were a fast moving process like in a firehose, the orifice would constrict the GPM flow rate. But in a slow moving capillary action, the mix above the aeration bench slowly saturated to come in harmony with the volume of mix in the wicking basket.

Rather than re-working them, I would try to lower the water table by sliding the AWS tube down further in the filler tube to maintain a 2" water level. This might help, but it is trial and error I am afraid, with the large basket. You definitely need a Moisture Meter to monitor the moisture content of the potting mix.

Raybo

I bought a 10 dollar meter a Lowe¡¦s these have two legs one looks aluminum the other copper colored. (No batteries required) Of course anyone that has been around boats (especially salt water) knows that dissimilar metals will generate a current to move the meter. (Sacrificial anodes zinc rather than prop shafts out drives etcƒº)

The further down you push the probes the higher it reads worthless junk. How moist is the soil at 2 inch at 4 inch and then you would need a scale to determine optimum levels,
If anyone wants this meter just email me and send a pre paid postage box so I can send it back to you at aluf220239@aol.com for my address just CAP GARDENin the subject so I do not delete it Too much junk email.

Also Raybo if possible I would like to have a voice conversation with you, If you chose to send me your number via the above email and the time to call you.

Raybo, I fully acknowledge that the earthtainer is your idea, and I am not trying to use a theatrical term to ¡§upstage you¡¨ but I may have a few novel ideas that may prove to be of benefit to others.

Thanks

Big Al

Last year I used this (cheap) moisture meter:

I agree it will not tell you absolute moisture level - - all I used it to do is to show "relative" levels of moisture between different wicking basket trial designs.

I have just ordered a $40.00 multi-mode meter from Gurney's so we'll see if it is any more accurate.

Yes, I will be happy to have a conversation with you. I'll send you an email.

Regarding the EarthTainer design, while I have come up with several novel ideas in its construction, much of the original ideas came from a fellow GW member "Earl" who coincidently, the Earl's Faux tomato is named after.

You are not upstaging me at all - - I really like your two piece caging system as it solves several problems with cage stacking at the end of the season, changing potting mix, laying down the landscape fabric, etc. Keep the improvement ideas coming!!!

Raybo

Well I went down to my vrappy Walmart, and the kid in the site to store section said he couldnt find that code in his records and had no way of ordering.
ANy advise?
How did you get them to order GeeBoss??

Thanks
Brian

I picked mine up at Lowe's have you checked them.

big alan

I would give them a call first to make sure their supply is in stock - - still kind of early in N. California for a lot of vegetable related items like tomato cages. Not so where Big Alan lives...

Raybo

I noticed that Target has 25 gallon Roughnecks for $10.99. Whats your thought on those being 6 galls smaller?

I figure they are plenty big for two plants, but I'm worried the wicking basket may be a tad too large for those

Just make sure they are genuine Rubbermaid totes with thick walls. I found the 31 gallon 'Tainers were quite crowded with 2 plants, so I would be a bit concerned with the 25 gallon models. You may want to select smaller plants like Paul Robeson to use in the smaller containers.

I think the 5" diameter wicking basket should still be OK in a 25 gallon container.

Raybo

George

big al

How did you get them to order the cages?
The kid at my Walmart said there was nothing in their system relating to the posted UPC

I've taken the time to write to the GM at that store about the great service provided and cc their corporate office. Nice when individuals seek to provide great customre service. The item number shown on the sales receipt is 002411471079. where as the product UPC is 024114710792.

Just ask and they'll find the inforation is their suppliers guide book.

George

Ok for those that may be interested, in building earthtainers with removable cages and those who would like to retro fit the permanent cages to removable style.

It will depend on the number of tainers that you have to do some of this and tools you may or may not have.

In the above photo from left to right

Jig for drilling height of toggle bolt hole and drain hole using large square basket (with round smaller basket will be the same)

Jig for cutting off legs of cages 4 inch block of wood (I use bolt cutters approx with18 Inch long handles to cut the legs off) less than 20 bucks at Lowe’s.

Jigs eliminate the need for constant measuring and reduce chance of errors.

Far right is a tool I had to make on my lathe. This holds a 3/16x1 inch round die and allows me to thread my legs using a ½ inch variable speed reversible drill. This I estimate would cost about 75 to 100 dollars for a machine shop to make for you.

The lower die is a 3/16 hex die you do not want this if you chose to have a machine fabricate a holder but is fine for a hand handle.

One further note on threading use oil and as you thread back it off counter clock wise to clear chips from the die. If you don’t rod will shear off in the die.(chips jam it)

Happy Gardening

Happy Machining

http://shop2.mailordercentral.com/EarthBox/products.asp?dept=16

Do yourself a favor and only order the 12 box unit, I wanted to expand my system by 4 boxes but S+H was going to be $24.00 and on the complete 12 box unit it is only 5.95 S+H.

Play what if with (the above site) and you will see the best bang for the dollar is the 12 box system.

Raybo

http://www.heaterzone.com/Plug_In_Heaters_s/37.htm

http://www2.snapfish.com/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=272037390/a=129524536/ t_=129524536

Glad that the left coast Wal-Mart works like the right coast Wal-Mart. Others will benefit from you request, ours ordered a pallet of 125.

George

Glad you found your cages, you may or may not decide to make your cages removable as I did mine. If so the how to do so on this thread. good luck!! For me it is cheaper to cut the legs and then thread them but others may opt for the threaded rod.

I wasn't going to post this until when I might know more, but now that I see you have gotten through at Walmart, I'll mention what I learned.

After calling several Walmarts (and even finding a friendly manager that spent a lot of time on this) it seemed that Walmart has deleted the UPC code (thank you geeboss)for the cages from their system.

So I called the manufacturer Glamos Wire Co for another source. Since it was after hours, the general manager answered the phone. While he was not 100% sure, he said this year Walmart has decided to go with a cheaper tomato cage. As I said he was not totally sure, but plans on calling me tomorrow with an update.

Hopefully his recollection is wrong and Walmart will be a hassle free source for all of us. But in case it's true, Glamos folks might be able to ship us a case.

Anyway, this is my first time building an EarthTainer. I'm inspired and want to follow raybo's instruction verbatim. Raybo has done a lot of thoughtful work and is graciously sharing it with us. I see no reason to reinvent the wheel.

Will post again when I know more.

http://www.republicdrill.com/part/?p=82016

this does not include the 3/16 10-24 die but you may be able to order both from the to save on shipping

Big Alan
I'm not compelety sure on the removable cages(probably) but I'm pretty sure I will be threading the legs to mount in the lower legs to save the $ for all the wire clamps. A few of my buddies have tap & die sets

Siamack
I'm in Martinez. I will post when I hear back from the manager regarding how many he orders.
I too found the Glamos website but wanted to get try Walmart first as I'm sure the shipping directly from Glamos would kill

This post is about the availability of heavy duty wire cages from Walmart and possible options for the folks in Northern California.

The representative from Glamos called back (like me, she forgot about the time difference!) According to Glamos representative, as of right now, Walmart will not carrying their heavy duty cages this year. Of course Glamos is trying to get Walmart back as an account and all of this may be some fancy negotiation tactics. So lets keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best.

Alternative sources are Ace Hardware and True Value.

For large quantities, the California distributor is L&L Nursery Supply (909-591-0461) I’ll contact them when the sun comes up and check into local sources.

http://www.llnurserysupply.com/

If we have to order the cages directly from Glamos, the landed cost in N. Ca will be $5.76. The minimum order is 125 cages which means a few of us have to pool our orders together. I will take 60 cages.

bdobs
Thanks for the prompt reply. Martinez is great. I can easily get there. Also you are right about the freight. It’s almost half the total cost.

As you know these big companies work in mysterious ways and may be your local store manager can make it through. Let's wait and see.

While it may be that currently Glasmos Wire isn't dealing directly with Wal-Mart ....Wal-Mart does have a supplier for hardware and can order the Glamos Tomato Cages through this supplier. They just need the Glamos UPC code and description i.e. heavy duty 18" x 54" . The price at our Wal-Mart $5.22 which is more than fair.

George

Brian

http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(ycd0luqs3x3eoyit2dnfhwv5)/ProductDet ails.aspx?SKU=7110976

George

Raybo

I wasn't able to get shipping charge when I entered my ZIP. Has anyone else been able to find shipping charges? At 100 pounds for the batch of 25 cages, I am sure it won't be cheap, but getting the 3/16" ones may be well worth it.

George

See link below for delivery to store pickup Pancea heavy duty 18 x 54 tomato cage

www.acehardware.com/sm-panacea-plant-support-25-pack-panacea-plant-sup port-25-pack--pi-2776114.html

Raybo

this is the 3/16 diamater wire 4 ring 4 leg that you need

Good Luck

Big alan

A while back I posted that I would try to get some containers from the city’s garbage pick up service that where no longer serviceable.

I obtained two for an experiment.

I am going to cut these down and plant 1 key lime tree in each one, using the scrap to make the aeration bench, but am going to try a different approach to the wicking basket,
What I am going to try is a large style commercial mop head with ½ of it submerged below and ½ above the bench, then as I lay the soil in I will layer the mop threads at different levels in the soil. (To provide the capillary action).

Others may have access to these types of containers from their city contractors and the price is right FREE. And these are almost a ¼ inch thick.

happy gardening

big alan

How about just cutting a piece of corrugated polycarbonate or fiberglass roof sheeting such as is often used to cover patios and greenhouses? It could be supported with drain pipe, just as with the aeration bench that is cut from the second tote. It would be stronger and cheaper than consuming two totes per earthtainer.

The 5 inch diameter wicking basket is hard to find. Amazon is sold out right now. Can I just use a four inch long piece of 4 inch diameter schedule 40 PVC or the cheaper drain pipe, and drill a bunch of holes in it? It would be sturdier than the aquatic plant basket and easier to source.

Try a hydroponics shop. There are 10 million of them on the internet. Your looking for a 5" net pot. Same thing as the pond basket. Probably a lot cheaper too. I think I paid 97 cents for mine at the local hydro shop.

Posted by yrdling (My Page) on Thu, Feb 26, 09 at 3:22

The earthtainer requires two 31 gallon Rubbermaid totes per finished container. It seems like the only reason for using two totes is to make the aeration bench.
How about just cutting a piece of corrugated polycarbonate or fiberglass roof sheeting such as is often used to cover patios and greenhouses? It could be supported with drain pipe, just as with the aeration bench that is cut from the second tote. It would be stronger and cheaper than consuming two totes per earthtainer.

Cheaper yes, stronger no. If you read the earthtainer instructions Raybo has, you will find that his aeration bench is easier to construct, and much stronger. He bolts his bench to the side of his tote.

There are other versions out there that use an 18 gallon tote and a 14 gallon tote that slips inside the 18 gallon tote. No cutting the tub in half or anything of that nature. Just drill the aeration holes and put in the wick and your done.

On my 18 gallon SWCs, I used 1 tub, used the cutout from the lid as my aeration bench, drilled holes and covered with landscape fabric. This was supported by 5 pieces of the 4" black corrugated drain pipe that is $5 for 10 ft. Worked very well, but was much more difficult to construct than the design that Raybo has come up with.

So basically if you want well thought out and simple stupid to construct, go with Raybo's design. If you want cheap and more work, go with one of the other designs on the net.

It doesn't seem like the bottom of foreshortened tote would be stronger than using corrugated polycarbonate greenhouse roof sheeting, or any easier to build. What you describe for your own version of the container sounds like it would actually be simpler to build than Raybo's version, and would be less expensive, and would consume less material (half as many totes). Are the ones you made doing the trick for you? Are you satisfied with them?

The problem with using a piece of pipe for the wicking basket is there is no end cap to keep the potting mix from running out, and into the water reservoir. If you can't find the net pots, then use an empty coffee can that is about 5" diameter, and cut it to 4" high. Then drill a bunch of holes to let the water in.

Have you studied the EarthTainer construction guide? You will see why I use the second container, and how the toggle bolts hold it all together, and keep the potting mix from leaking down the sides. A few bucks more, but a better constructed solution.

Raybo

The reason I'm really interested in your EarthTainer is that the tomatoes I planted in my SFG last year took up too much space yet still seemed crowded, and they didn't produce well. The poor results I obtained could have been due to my inexperience as it was my first time to grow a garden, but all my peppers and okra produced abundantly. I want to try my tomato plants this year in a growing environment that is adapted specifically to their needs. Your earthtainer fits the bill.

I'm going to build ten of these this weekend or next depending on how long it takes me to get all the parts gathered up. That's going to end up costing a bit, so I was looking for ways to reduce my expense.

I probably shouldn't mess with a proven design.

Raybo

Ok here is another Crazy Idea which I am going to try. (Building my last 6 for a total of 18)

At the other end of the aeration bench I am going to attach ¾ in PVC pipe extending above the soil level. I will then using a small aquarium air pump, air stone and tubing connect to these last six I am building.

Possible benefits.

1. May improve air movement to root zone.
2. May be enough agitation of water to deter mosquito’s (I don’t see much posted about this but any standing water will breed them.)

Others building earthtainers now may wish to as the cost is minimal install (the ¾ PVC and wait to here from others who like me are going to do the air pump experiment). Because once the earthtainer is filled with soil it will have to wait till clean out time to retro fit.

Big Alan

How are you doing tonight?

You air "injection" has some interesting possibilities. It would be interesting to grow the same variety in one 'Tainer with, and one without the air injection, as a comparison. Air to the roots is quite important.

Raybo

I trust with the help from Big Alan, Geboss and bdobs you have figured out a satisfactory source for heavy duty cages. If you haven't, the folks at L&L Nursery Supply have provided me with a list of every nursery in N. Ca who has bough Glamos cages from them. Instead of posting a big list here, I will keep the list for a couple of months and send it to anyone who wants it.

Raybo

Ray,

I will be doing just this. I don't really have any way for mosquitoes to get into the containers other than the tiny overflow hole. Since going with the float valves for the autowatering setup, I was planning on trying an air stone in one of the containers to see what kind of difference it made. I also will be just using water soluble ferts in the resevior instead of a fertilizer strip. I'll still adjust the mix with epsom salts and lime as needed, but I want to see what I can do with the water soluble ferts.

My generic plan is to have a 35 gallon trash can that I will fill with the soluble ferts, and have it feed the containers via 1/2" line to the float valves.

I figure I'll have to fill it once every two weeks in the summer when the tomatoes are really drinking the water down. I will be trying it on my three already made containers. If it works I will add it to the four containers I plan on making this spring. I'll have 2 cherry, 2 slicing, and the other 2 Opalka plants in the three test containers. The other 4 containers will just have either Opalka or romas in them.

Thanks to your work and detailed instructions, I set-up two EarthTainers. It was an easy process even for the uninitiated. This weekend I have access to a truck and plan to get all the supplies I need for the rest of my project.

Question#1 - How many bags of Miracle Grow Mix will I need per ET? I can calculate the volume but don't know the rate of compaction or anything else that effects the amount of material needed.

Question#2 - I have several half-barrels that I intend to modify using your design. The half-barrels will be planted with small vegetables or annuals/perennials. I know you are not a soil engineer (neither am I) but based on your experience what are some of the factors that I should consider in making this modification? I'm specifically concerned with moisture level of the soil. What are the factors that change the wicking action of a SWC? It seems the size of the orifice in the aeration bench is not critical. Does the volume of submerged soil matter? Is it a ratio between what's submerged and the soil above?

I tried using one layer of a lid for an aeration bench (Sterilite) and found unacceptable flimsiness, so ziptied 3 together and still needed extra support for the bench (6 - 1 1/4" PVC). I'm interested in hearing how your bench holds up.

Anyone:

How common is it for a mosquito to fly all the way down a narrow pipe to lay eggs? Aren't there thousands of safer places to lay eggs?

Dan

jleiwig:
I tried using one layer of a lid for an aeration bench (Sterilite) and found unacceptable flimsiness, so ziptied 3 together and still needed extra support for the bench (6 - 1 1/4" PVC). I'm interested in hearing how your bench holds up.

Going on their second season, no problems last year at all. I had 5 pieces of 4" corrugated drain pipe for support, of which only 2 were wicking chambers. I covered that with landscape fabric and planted. Worked out amazingly well, and I'm hoping for the same or better results this year with my above mentioned enhancements.

If you thought it was way too flimsy, you had too much other junk in your mix, or too much water I'd guess. I could easily lift my containers with 1 finger on each end after I filled it with moistened potting mix/perlite/vermiculite mix.

I would hazard a guess that even moistened, my aeration bench never saw more than 10 lbs of weight from the potting mix.

As far as mosquitoes, I'd guess if they are despirate, they would travel down into the SWC, but I haven't seen it. There are much easier places to lay eggs.