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vance8b

Tomato leaves green/limp w/Bunch o' PICS

vance8b
16 years ago

Hey all. I have had this problem before and never have found out exactly what it is. In ground and in pots, some plants start going limp during the day and perking up at night. Certain branches/parts of branches are affected. It only gets worse, so I just yank the plants that have this happen and dump the soil.

I did not have much trouble last year, but this year a Homestead grown from seed planted in last years reconditioned potting mix (fluffed in a wheel barrow and time release fertilizer added) has started exhibiting symptoms. What does this look like and what can I do about it?. I can't afford an autoclave that my backyard will fit in :) .

I live in hot/humid Florida and may just have to be a bit more vigilant about garden hygiene. Knowing what exactly I was dealing with would help. Many descriptions can be found, but I have had a hard time finding photos. Silly huh? When I can just take my own!

The plant had two other branches that were entirely limp. I removed them before deciding to take photos.

Thanks!

The entire branchÂ. Note only one side is affected.

A leaf on the limp side...

The firm leaf on the opposite side....

Another limp leaf from the affected side....

And the opposite side firm leaf....

The entire limp side....

The removed branch....

The inside of the stem....

Comments (20)

  • anney
    16 years ago

    Those black pots are probably making the soil too hot and cooking your roots. If your plants grow limp during the day and perk up at night, the temperatures have something to do with that. While tomato plants thrive in the heat most of the time, their roots need to be keep relatively cool.

    Also, it's hard to tell, but how large are those pots? They look too small to me for anything but the smallest tomato plants. What variety of tomato are you growing?

  • HoosierCheroKee
    16 years ago

    All I see is a very very small amount of sunburn on some of the lower leaves (insignificant), a bit of whiplash from wind (those small tear holes ... also insignificant), some stress probably related to dry wind and hot roots as mentioned by another poster, and maybe the plant is asking for a bit more irrigation.

    Why are you keeping a plant that size in a container that size? Do you intend to grow that plant all the way to maturity in a container, or are you waiting for warmer weather to plant it in a bed?

    If the latter, maybe dig a hole and sink the container down about 3/4 way into the hole to hold it until planting into the bed. Then if you have to protect it from late light frost, cover it with an inverted 5-gallon pickle bucket overnight.

    Really, I don't see any disease ... just a hankerin' to go in the ground.

  • yardenman
    16 years ago

    I understand why you are growing the plants in (I assume) sterile container soil to reduce soil-borne diseases. I doubt that the amount of pot showing above ground is a problem (but a layer of mulch wouldn't hurt).

    It looks like wind dehydration to me.

    I would put up a wind barrier next to each plant (shingle, plywood, cardboard, whatever) and check the moisture level of the pots every day.

  • sprtsguy76
    16 years ago

    Little more water might help perk them up. I too, because of limited space, grow in black pots that are buried half way into the ground. I cut the bottoms out of the pots so the roots can expand down further. I'm a little concerned with the black color of the pots, so later this year I might be inclined to paint them white.

  • anney
    16 years ago

    SG

    It would also work to mulch deeply with leaves or other organic matter on top of your half-buried pots rather than paint them. (That seems like a pain in the butt if you're already using them!)

    I did the same thing last year, planted several tomatoes in partially-buried bottomless black pots, primarily so I could give them some good root-soil (ProMix) before they started digging into our nutritious but stubborn clay soil. I covered the whole kit and kaboodle with about 6" of shredded leaves and actually forgot about the pots until I cleared out the area in December for this year's garden.

  • wistericallaughter
    16 years ago

    I had a similar problem w/my tomato plants last season. My plants were in the ground (heirloom varieties) and could not figure out why they started to look stressed in some parts but not in others etc etc...
    My problem is/are the Black Walnut Tree's on my property. I found out the hard way. Black Walnut's roots put out (sp?) junglans disease - kills lots of plants.
    Perhaps some of the mulch for your potted tom. used has Black Walnut? It takes about a year or so, after removing the tree for the roots to die - for safe planting...

    I have also found a blog site www.awaytogarden.com She has info blogged about tomatoes perhaps some answers are there.?

  • dave1mn2
    16 years ago

    I know this is gonna be a hard sell on a tomato forum but as a Black Walnut Grower I gotta try :-)

    This site has several nice articles about walnuts and how you might co-exist. Other good stuff too.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Tom Clothier's Garden Walk and Talk

  • mule
    16 years ago

    I think its interesting that only one side is effected. There are a few wilts that will do that. They will progress to worsening symptoms.

    I would suspect roots are limited as other stated.

    You havent seen any other symptoms since posting? Yellowing? problems along the margins?

    AND THANKS FOR THE CUT STEM PICTURE! That is very helpful.

  • chalstonsc
    16 years ago

    I've found putting containers in a couple of white plastic bags and drawing tops up and overtops of containers help to keep the heat down and the moisture in,need holes in bottom or cut the bottoms of bags open to allow to drain.

  • vance8b
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Thanks so much for the replies. I had replied yesterday in detail, but I guess I closed the browser while it was still in preview mode as the post is not here today.

    The pot is 7.5 gallons, but you can't see that from the angle of the photo. The plant is a Homestead that is 16 inches tall. Days are high 70's to mid 80's with nights in the high 60's. The plant has no business being stressed under the current conditions. July is hell here. April is nice. The watering has been fine. Not too soggy, but not too dry.

    I can't see how environmental stress will only affect half of the plant. Notice in the pictures that on one side of the branch the leaves hold their shape when lifted by the stick, but the leaves on the opposite side fold over limply.

    My first year gardening turned to disaster due to nasties in ground. I had six awesome plants growing over six feet tall and one by one they dropped. Healthy one day then two days later limp from top to bottom. I'll find out if this is it as this plant won't make it if it is the same thing. I don't want to keep it around if this is the case, but I want to at least let it stay around to verify that it is indeed a terminal problem.

    2003...

    About two weeks later....

    *sigh*

    mule

    That cut stem victim is doing great as of right now. It is well behind its brothers and sisters, but it looks healthy as can be. I can't believe it!

    its_kristy

    That is the best candidate yet. I have a hard time finding pictues of it in its early stages, so I'm not sure.

    Thanks again.

  • vance8b
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Well, I pulled the plug on the affected plant today. It was obvious that it was a goner.

    A small plant next to it looked the same way, so I pulled it also. I dumped the potting mix in the front yard in a spot that will never have a garden. Now I have to wonder the extent of the contamination. I had very little trouble last year, so I did not give disease much thought this year. Who knows how much cross contamination has occurred between the various plants. I guess I will find out.

    Last year I did some crazy raised bed in pots experiment with 'fresh' OPL. Fresh meaning they never touched my compost pile. See link below. This year I am using partially composted OPL from this past fall. That means that everything has been in the common pile and pulled back out without being thoroughly heated. I have no way of knowing were my contamination source is at this point. I'll keep going and see how I do this year. If I end up OK I won't make too many modifications to my methods, but if I end up loosing a high percentage of my toms and peppers, I'll have to get drastic. That would mean bleaching all pots and using nothing but new mix for any container.

    I believe the small plant was an Arkansas Traveler and I know the big plant was a Homestead. Both from last year's store bought seeds.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Last year's set up

  • tomncath
    16 years ago

    I think the problem is that you moved into the soil. Everyone here has a different opinion but we must realize that different climates act differently, certainly with respect to tomatoes. Our heat and humidity in Florida cause nematodes, fungus and viruses to be problematic in ways not understood in other geographic areas. I recommend you repost this in the Florida GW forum to see if anyone in your area can give you a local perspective on your problem. We grow maters here from Sept-June, most everyone else grows them June-Sept! Although I'm probably only 150 miles south of you I can't give you good advice because I never get frost...you get the point? I'm in containers because I can't effectively fight nematodes, but what works for me may not work for you!

  • barrie2m_(6a, central PA)
    16 years ago

    There are a number of things that I would consider since it appears that there is a stressing situation that would normally improve with time and it isn't in your case. You mentioned that you amended last years soil. Often the plant only removes a fraction of the nutrients in a potted plant. So what happens is that salts build up and by adding more fertilizer you only added to the salt problem. I would dig up one of those plants, pull much of the loose mix from the roots and repot it in new potting media, without any amendments. See how it responds in time.

    Another possibility is herbicide injury. Sometimes people throw lawn clippings in he compost pile after treating their lawn with a Weed 'n Feed product containing 2-4D. The product will break down over time but Tomatoes are very sensative to injury from 2-4D and the leaves will curl into all kinds of wierd shapes as the plant tries to survive the effect. You didn't by any chance use composted clippings. I had a problem many years ago from a contaminated slow release fertilizer that I got at a discount store.

    As Tom mentioned you could have a soil borne disease or pest problem. Nematodes might be a good candidate. What do the roots look like when you pull up these plants? Wash a few lightly and look for discolored (browning) roots. Even better-take a plant with roots intact to you county extension office and have a plant pathologist examine it.

  • dave1mn2
    16 years ago

    Man! Those pics from 03 are hard to look at!

    I really liked your garden pics of last yr.

    Hope you get it figured out.

  • mattpower
    15 years ago

    I'm having a similar problem with one of my tomato plants. Don't have the heart to pull it just yet, but I think it's on its way. It's a yellow pear heirloom, about 5 feet tall, with full fruit set. But all the leaves are dying. What was the culprit in your '03 disaster? What a nightmare.

  • purple_jalapeno
    15 years ago

    I'm having the same issue. I think Ive traced it down to nematodes. Nothing to do but not grow maters and peppers next year :(. I only have a small area to plant and thus, no way to rotate to a new area every other year.

  • zylo_gardener
    9 years ago

    My tomato plants which are in pots are all very limp and flaccid yet my tomato plants whose roots are in the ground are thriving and show no sign of being limp.this is leading me to think that the pots are either being too hot or too cold but then why should the tomato plants still be limp even when temperatures become normal? and the temperature in general (and not the temperature of the pots) can't be the culprit or else my tomatoes which are in the ground would be suffering too. I have checked the soil and it i well hydrated, i have fertilized the plants too and the pots are decent sized too, capable of holding 5 or so litres of soil. So i am guessing that temprature of the pots is doing the harm. i shall move 1 of the pots to a cooler shadier area of the garden for a day and seeif the limpness goes away which hopefully it will

  • seysonn
    9 years ago

    In pots (depending where the pots are (sun, shade) and temperatures , the contents of the pots (Soil and roots) can get heated. That is why potted plants will readily and it takes them much longer to recover. Problem can get even worse if the are too small and not watered thoroughly and frequently enough.

  • labradors_gw
    9 years ago

    Zylo,

    I wonder if your pots are too small for your plants. If they are big plants, it is possible that they simply cannot suck up the water that you give them.

    It happened to me when I grew a yellow cherry in a 3 gallon container this winter. The plant is normally 6 or 7 feet tall, so I knew that the pot was too small, but I thought I would grow it anyway. I was home all day to water 2 or 3 times a day if it drooped, but it reached a stage where it simply couldn't get that water right up to the top of the plant...... At least I got some tomatoes off it!!!

    Linda