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syntria

Tomatoes have small curling leaves and slow growth

syntria
9 years ago

Hello! Been a few months since I posted here!

I started some tomatoes in doors in early February, and another set in mid March.

So far the only ones that have taken off since planting them in the ground 3-4 weeks ago (Arlington, TX) are the Silver fur's. The Roma's seemed to yellow and die quickly, my Cherokee's, Sungolds, and Supersweet are doing okay just not doing much. I have several other varieties out there as well. First time doing in-ground gardening--was primarily containers before.

I also have videos of my gardening progress on youtube.com/synfoods

I really could use some help figuring out what's going on with these plants--and what I can do to encourage the others to get stronger.

These pictures above are the ones I'm concerned about. These are my supersweet and sungolds which usually have broader leaves and I noticed that they are all shriveled and curled up.

------- Below this line is just Show and Tell but any feedback is greatly appreciated! -----

Those are my plants from Mid-March. They've been in the ground almost a month and seem to be growing very slowly.

My peppers I started in early February

My cucumbers, cantaloupe, and watermelon I started from seed in early April. They seem to be growing very slowly and a few of them seem entirely stunted--I can see ants on them but don't see any aphids. Will be doing some climbing nets once they get a little bigger.

Lastly, 12 Edamame. First time trying to grow it. Started them with little peat tablets around 3-4 weeks ago.

Here is a link that might be useful: Syntria's Gardening Videos

Comments (21)

  • seysonn
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I Watched some of your videos (compost, raised beds, plant in them). And I think that you have SOIL PROBLEM:

    --- SOIL QUALITY (nutrients, pH, structure)
    --- Depth
    --- Drainage ?

    I think your beds/filling is too shallow. How wide those lumbers are that you have made beds with ? 8 inches". Then you have not even filled them up and the filling sits on cardboards ?

    So basically, plants like tomatoes cannot grow any deep roots. SMALL PLANT SIZE IS INDICATION. Also relatively small plants with fruits. This tells me that the plants have figured it out that they shoul give up on growing foliage but get on with growing fruits (seeds), thats smart !

    SOIL STRUCTURE:
    Is the compost all you have filled the beds with ? At anyrate, I see a lot of big woody chunks (carbon fiber, chips). That structure would trap/bound Nitrogen. So you think you fertilized but your plants are not getting it. YELLOW FOLIAGE, weak growth ARE THE INDICATIONS, to me.

    CURLING TOMATO LEAVES:
    Probably due to too wet feet. WHY? the cardboard and the soil underneath (with poor drainage) and shallow filling.

    I would suggest that the bed should have a minimum dept of about 12" AND SHOULD BE FILLED TO THE BRIM. not half full !!!

    I would suggest screening out the chunky stuff and adding good old black topsoil mixed with quality aged compost, composted horse manure (not wood chips)
    FINALLY:
    THE BEST WAY TO FIND OUT(what is going on ) IS TO HAVE A SOIL TEST. that should settle it beyond guessing.

  • FrancoiseFromAix
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Syntrya !

    I have the same problem as you have in some of my beds, and those are the ones I was to lazy to fill up properly, and also in one that I overwatered.

    I was such in a hurry to plant everything out that I started properly and then I just f--cked up to finish quickly on sunday evening before going back to work ;-(

    So now every evening I bring some composted manure and put it on top. I just hope the roots will find their way up instead of downwards against the laws of gravity.

    I don't know if it'll work so I can't really advise you.

    As for the over watering, despite a dry wind and a bright sun, some of my tomatoes are rotting and I don't think I can do something except being sorry and learning the lesson !

  • syntria
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    So what's the 'best thing I can do' for now? People plant directly in the ground too so I believe the 6'' thing is viable for tomatoes, long as the grounds loosened up another 12'' below at least. I know they thrive with 24''-38'' but I had assumed incorrectly that they would just go straight into the native soil that deep (which is clayish).

    I suppose based on what everyone's said...

    Chemical/Organic Fertilizer to make up for not enough nutriants - One that has more Nitrogen in it to encourage leaf growth? Since I want them bigger before producing fruit (I've been picking off the blooms/fruit).

    Add more soil. Since tomatoes grow roots at their stem, it should be safe for me to add more soil to top it off---and when Id id fill them, they were over the edge. Like a mountain in the center however they settled, which I did expect and planned to add more once they did. Even though that'd only be another 2-3''ish.

    For the second tomato bed would it be worth pulling those short tomatoes out and tilling the hell out of the soil under it?

    I've grown 4-5 foot high tomato plants in my containers which were 12'' high and about that wide pretty well and with good harvests (30-40 tomatoes per plant). Though I know many of the tomatoes I selected this year are indeterminate that want to get BIG. I do want to give them everything they need ot do this--but it seems I didn't start with ideal conditions.

    Going to let them go dry for a week--though check on them regularly to ensure they don't go bone dry. The soil -is- very moist a few inchs below the surface on the second bed, the first tomato bed not so much--again probably because I double digged that one.

  • digdirt2
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The plants in pics 1, 2 and 3 look like CMV to me - the leaves are the classic symptom of Cucumber Mosaic Virus, filiformity or shoestring-like leaf blades. The stunting of the plant growth is also characteristic of that disease. There is lots of info and pics online to compare your plants with.

    As to the other issues, I agree the beds are too shallow and the media used to fill them is obviously nutrient deficient. Those issues can be fixed but unfortunately CMV cannot be.

    Personally I'd remove those affected plants and dispose of them safely before all your other plants are also affected. That will allow you to address the other issues before re-planting. Fortunately you have a long gorwing season.

    Dave

  • fireduck
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Again, a couple of good posts above. Tomatoes show small leaves and non-robust growth when soil conditions (especially moisture related) problems are present. This can be made worse by pruning (temporary). However, the tight and curled leaves do look more like a disease to me.

  • sleevendog (5a NY 6aNYC NL CA)
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I did think disease as well, but so much similar conditions all over with every planting...
    Some of the tomato starts were rather large and seem to be waiting for the garden beds to be constructed....
    They were actually touching and heavily surrounding the growing lights..not sure for how long...suffering a bit well before going in the ground.
    Our op has an obvious passion for gardening. Just want to make it successful. Though often that just takes a bit of failure and determination to sink in.
    Fruit trees, other endeavors, are all very sick and need of attention...

  • jean001a
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The tomatoes have been damaged by herbicide, most likely 2,4-D. (Could be drift from elsewhere.)
    If not that, contaminated organic matter

    Difficult to see detail of the peppers. But I suspect they also got a dose.

    Here is a link that might be useful: contaminated organic matter, with easy bioassay

  • sleevendog (5a NY 6aNYC NL CA)
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Many issues...but they were smashed, curling, stressed, and flowering under fluorescents well before seeing shallow garden soil...
    Screen shot but helpful to help solve the issue?

  • centexan254 zone 8 Temple, Tx
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Looks like uneven draining to me. My wife had the same problem last year with the bed she insisted on making herself. She used plastic under the 6 inches of garden soil. The mounded melons, and mint thrived. Squash did well till SVB got them. Tomatoes, and beans yellowed, stressed, and then burned in the Texas heat. I tried to warn her about it. This year she did what I suggested, and things are much better.

  • syntria
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Eee thanks everyone. So many potential issues. :I think dampness/drainage is probably my biggest issue, next to possible disease--and the guy across my fence may use herbicides, I'm not sure. His english isn't the best but he does talk about how much he likes a 'perfect yard'.

    Older picture but give you an idea of the whole set up. The lower beds I did double-dig to add depth, the top ones I didn't. Its about 6'' deep on the high side to 10'' on the low side since there's a slope.

    Not sure what to do except to let everything dry out and see if they improve. Would close up shots in daylight help determine more if it's disease, over watering, or herbicide effecting the tomatoes?

    And yes, as the screenshots show---It was my first year truly growing anything from seed so there was a lot of bumps along the way.

  • syntria
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Man...

    So it looks like 2/3rds of my tomatoes have this curling leaf issue, whatever it is.

    I'm really not sure what to do. :( Its like 30-40 plants. If I just replant new ones they'll just get sick too right?

  • digdirt2
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What to do is find out for sure the true cause and fix it.

    (1) Jean makes a good point that it could be herbicide exposure. I had thought of that but it usually only affects new growth on the plants and would have expected more damage to the peppers too. But it is a definite possibility.

    But that you can find out from the neighbor. If he did use weed killer then you will have to work out some deal with him as it will be a season-long and annual problem unless your plants are covered with plastic whenever he applies it. Tomatoes just can't tolerate even the drift from weed killers.

    And if it is contamination in the mulch or compost that is the source then flushing it out/diluting it with lots of water will help.

    (2) If it is CMV then a new plant should do ok. So do a test. Buy a new plant and stick it in a container and set the container in the bed and see how that plant does.

    (3) If it is the beds (depth, and components) then yeah, until you fix the beds nothing will do well. I would guess fixing them means all the things mentioned above - raise the sides, mix in lots of fresh new media and fertilizer. Test - fix one bed now and replant it with new plants or transplant the healthy ones from an un-fixed beds and compare the results.

    Hope this helps.

    Dave

  • syntria
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks Dave and everyone else!

    After digging down around 6'', the soil indeed is very moist. After letting ti dry out, everything's growing much quickier now.

    However, more tomato plants are showing new growth to have curly leaves. Seems my cherokee purples, BeefSteaks and Aces are immune but my Romas, Silvery Fur, and Cherry Tomato plants all seem to have the curly leaf.

    I think it's safe to assume at this point it is a tomato virus?

  • fireduck
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We all would like to have IMMEDIATE results when resolving issues in our gardens. Nature works slower than what we impatient humans often desire. I say: continue to let your soil dry out a bit...and give it time. Many new/well intended gardeners over water and over fertilize. I seriously doubt if that is herbicide damage. I use lots of herbicides...and weeds/plants do go through a short stage where they look like that...just before drying/browning up. That 6 foot fence should have warded off most of any "drift" accidentally coming from neighbors.

  • seysonn
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What you can do in the short term, is to fill the beds to the brim (Even hill toward the middle) with good soil ( avoid that chunky compost that you have , for now). Goo garden soil mixed with manure compost should do.

  • jean001a
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The tomatoes do not have a virus.

    They have been damaged by herbicide.

    They may or may not grow out of it-- that depends on the dose the plant got.

    If the plant does grow out of it, that would prove it's herbicide damage

  • syntria
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks everyone!

    Jean001a - Would wet feet/soil contribute to it?

    Seysonn - Will do! I have 8 more cubic feet of the 'chunky' stuff, which is just marked as Local compost--its unfinished compost with a lot of wood pieces still. I've been mixing coffee grounds in with them. Would you suggest I actually put these bags into my compost pile? Which is about 10 cubic yards of fresh and dried grass clippings. I have about 2 more cubic yards of used Coffee grounds as well.

    --

    Here are my thoughts and updates! GOOD NEWS!

    **Here's what I've done since I first posted this.**

    I turned off my drip-system. We had two days of rain just prior to me posting this. It was very wet.

    I added a bag of soil to one of the beds--haven't all of them but will be doing today or tomorrow.

    Fertilized twice with my 'starter' solution for seedlings/transplants. Its heavy on Nitrogen.

    **What I plan to do**

    Water less frequently and split my drip-system up. Currently it's all one set for my 8 beds and my patio with container plants that need watering more often. Watering every 5 days or so, 20 minutes with two emitters that do 20 gallons per hour, so with two, that's 40, only at 20 minutes so that's 15 gallons per bed over 20 minutes or so? Since it's not directly to the soil.

    Find a way to increase drainage--I didn't use rocks or anything on the bottom of the beds, I only tilled them with a hand tiller. Could I aerate them to increase drainage--stab them a bunch of times 12-24'' down? Maybe install a few PVC pipes thru the lower portion with a screen on one side so run off can easily escape? The beds are at an angel/slope, 6'' one side, 10'' the other. My natural soil is very clayish, sticky when wet. The lower corner of the beds have either brick or hard lumps of soil filling them (I know, I'm so pro). Could I maybe use some kinda mesh instead to hold the soil in and thus allow air/water to flow out easier?

    Filling the soil level up in all the tomato beds beyond the brim with a pre-veggie garden soil mix.

    **Observations and Photo update**

    I've observed all my plants are doing much better since I've stopped watering them. It appears to have been my #1 problem.


    I still see mushrooms in most beds in the morning, leading me to believe the soil is still rather moist even now.

    All the plants are doing -much better-. I had yellowing cucumbers that are vibrant and dark green now, growing quickly. My melon plants are growing similarly as well. I'm going to get the net trellis installed today.

    My pepper plants appear to be turning a darker green adn getting more foliage---three of them have fist sized fruit on them. I've picked off flowers/fruit off all but the largest and I know they all are still pretty small.

    Tomatoes Tomatoes Tomatoes -- They are ALL doing much better! Many of them are growing new leaves WITHOUT LEAF ROLL! Some have slight leaf roll, but not the deranged totally gnarled looking ones.

    However, two of them are not AND have white spots/yellowing leaves/insanely twisted leaves still -- while a plant of the same species right next to it shows NONE of the same signs of sickness. SuperSweet100's

    Thank everyone for all the help. I really do appreciate it. I've learned so much from all of you over the last year. :)

    I'm just wanting to ensure I'm taking all the necessary steps to have a good yield this year and learn how to make next year way better! :)

    Here is a link that might be useful: Syntria's Gardening Videos

  • voni9
    6 years ago

    Hey guys, it is not what you are all doing!!!!!!!! It is the breeding of the plants. I have planted tomatoes since I was a kid and I am 82. Believe me it isn't the soil or the depth it was planted in most cases anyway, it is what they are doing when they are messing with mother nature to make them better or faster or bigger or whatever. We used to poke a plant in with our foot and it would grow beautifully like it was supposed to. Now we have to baby them and pray and then just get a few tomatoes on the plants. Sorry but I don't know how to get back to the way it used to be.

  • gorbelly
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Sorry, voni9, but this is a nonsensical idea, especially considering that modern hybrids are often better-producing, more disease-resistant, healthier plants (granted, few taste really wonderful), and the rest of the open-pollinated and heirloom tomatoes people grow are all bred using the same methods we've been using to breed tomatoes and other heirloom vegetables for thousands of years.

    Let's not all be so arrogant as to think we're so uniquely horrible that we managed to tomatoes unfit for survival in the world in your lifetime. After all, the world produces plenty of tomatoes.

    What we did do in your lifetime is breed for plants that conform to our mass shipping and shopping infrastructure (holds well, doesn't bruise, etc.) and bred the flavor out of the supermarket tomato.

    But the tomatoes people are growing in their backyards are often heritage varieties that are at least as old as you are if not older. Many of us grow them with great success. It may take a little more knowledge and research today, though.

    Here's what really makes gardening in general much harder today:

    1) The world is more connected. Diseases and pests spread like lightning. There are so many more invasive diseases and pests now than when you were young.

    2) The world is warming. Climate is changing. As a result, many areas are having to cope with diseases and pests that were previously only found further towards the equator or previously found in areas that were wetter or dryer.

    3) There are many more available herbicides today. Synthetic hormone weed killers are in wide use by everyday people as well as by agriculture. These are not actually weed killers but plant killers. It's practically guaranteed that people gardening today will deal with herbicide injury to their plants. Especially those people who grow tomatoes, because tomatoes are unusually sensitive to herbicides.

    But the big reason I suspect you thought the tomatoes of your childhood were so easy to grow is because you, a child, were probably not the one growing them but instead parents and other relatives were doing the bulk of the planning, care, and work.

  • Labradors
    6 years ago

    This is old stuff from 2014 (and the first plant looks as if it has herbicide damage to me).

    I don't think they used herbicides in the good old days! I know that many people , including my parents, wouldn't have been able to afford them!

    Linda

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