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| Hello. While abroad last year I ate a nice tomato and saved the seeds. The plants are now growing nicely but I don't know whether this is a indeterminate or determinate plant and therefore do not know whether or not to sucker etc. Are there signs on the plant that may hint to the answer? The plants are now about on foot tall. Thanks very much. Ilan. |
Follow-Up Postings:
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| Since it isn't required to "sucker" indeterminates anyway which type it is doesn't really matter. Removing lateral branches (aka suckers) is purely optional. So that issue aside, you may be able to tell by the internode length as determinates tend to have shorter lengths between the nodes. And once it blooms the location of the bloom cluster will tell you which it is as determinates have terminal blooms at the ends of the branches. Then there are the semi-determinates that can really confuse the issue. :) Dave |
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- Posted by PlanterJeff 7B GA (My Page) on Tue, May 27, 14 at 14:05
| How long ago did you plant them? typically determinate plants will eventually stop growing, so if the plants are kind of hovering around 2-3 feet and form a nice upright bush, you probably have determinate. If they are still growing non-stop like a vine then you probably have indeterminates. I accidentally mixed up my seedlings this year and had to wait to see myself. My determinates are set to grow to only 22-24 inches so once I noticed a few plants hovering around that point and the others were still growing, my questions were answered. I do prune indeterminate myself because I use SFG methods. |
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| Thanks for your replies. I do plan on suckering my tomatoes as I have planted them about 1 1/2 feet apart because the plan was to thin out side branches. I also was curious as to whether they are determinate or not because if they are there would be no need to support them, correct? and if they are not, now would be the time to start setting up my trellis. Anyway, they look sturdy and not in need of support at this point (as I said, one foot tall right now). Actually it does look like the lengths between nodes are short. For now, I guess I will not prune them and wait to see what happens. But I did not get the thing about the terminal blooms... Google provided no help... Right now I can see beginnings of blooms on the main stem, hidden within the dense new growth on the top of the plants. Thanks again. Ilan. |
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| I also was curious as to whether they are determinate or not because if they are there would be no need to support them, correct? I think you will find that most growers will provide some form of support for even determinate variety plants - stakes or the 3-4 ring tomato cages that are of little use for indeterminate varieties work well for determinate varieties. With determinate varieties flowers and fruit develop at or near the end of the branches, the terminus. With indeterminate varieties flowers and fruit develop more mid-stem along both the main and lateral branches. With 1.5' spacing I would focus mostly on trimming/removing leaf branches only until you are able to ID which type it is. While abroad last year I ate a nice tomato and saved the seeds. All this assuming the fruit wasn't a hybrid to begin with. If so it won't breed true anyway. Dave |
Here is a link that might be useful: Determinate vs. Indeterminate FAQ
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| I would not do "suckering" on determinants, because thats where you would get a lot of fruits. The main on DETdoes not keep growing vine like in indeterminats. But I would trim the very lower leaves that are near the ground to provide air circulation under the plant and possibly prevent soil born diseases and rotting. Also, I think even determinant need some kind if support. I also second a good size 3-ring tomato cage for the determinant. It is the most hassle free option, IMO. I am growing a few DETS this year myself, Some in beds and some in pots and I am going to treat them differently than INDETS. |
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- Posted by carolyn137 z4/5 NY (My Page) on Tue, May 27, 14 at 17:37
| I suppose most determinates do have just one flush of fruits, but the plants don't stop growing. And there are many det that produce fruits all summer long until taken down by a hard frost. Ones I'm thinking of that I've grown might include the following, just to name a few: Stupice ..... and quite a few Dwarfs, see below. And many other determinate varieties as well, noted in the link below although one has to click on different varieties to see if anyone reports continuous fruiting http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Category:Determinate_Tomatoes Below at the bottom of the page I've linked to Tania's page for some interesting new Dwarf varieties. Dwarf is a specific description for varieties that are relatively short, may go up to about 3-4 ft, have rugose foliage and a thick main stem. That's what a true Dwarf is, not just a det. Carolyn |
Here is a link that might be useful: Dwarf Variety Project
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| "All this assuming the fruit wasn't a hybrid to begin with. If so it won't breed true anyway." I think you probably settled it right there Dave. The tomato I enjoyed came from the vegetable stand of a very ordinary grocery store in The Black Forest- Germany. I suspect this means there are more or less 100% chances it is hybrid...? Carolyn. Thanks for your reply. I ran into a thread on another forum that discussed your book and wanted to order it right away as my first ever heirloom tomato book (I am growing heirloom tomatoes for the first time, or any vegetable for that matter...) As I live in Israel (I think Mediterranean climate most closely resembles California climate in the States) and as the name of the book specifically states that it is for the American grower, I wanted to post the question asking how relevant it would be for me. Anyway, I ordered the book and am awaiting its arrival as the 'other forum site' is taking a week already to approve my registration... So, maybe you have some input for me as to how I should use the book? I guess your locale would hint to how relevant your vast growing experience (1,000 heirloom varieties I understand...?) is to the experiences I should expect over here. Thank you all very much. |
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| determinates have terminal blooms at the ends of the branches. %%%%%%%%%%%%% That is it ! I think that is the real substantial difference between indets and dets. Growing bushy, compact, having shorter inter node lengths are also some indications but then an indeterminant might also have relatively shorter inter node length, grow bushy ... in comparison to another indet. Because of that difference you should not prune lateral on dets. I am growing few Dets and paying more attention. |
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| Sorry. Double post... Don't know how or why... Did not find a way to erase, only edit... |
This post was edited by zeligbass on Thu, May 29, 14 at 10:41
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| determinates have terminal blooms at the ends of the branches. That isn't the only difference. And don't take that statement too literally and then claim that unless the blooms are right at the very tip of the branch it must not be a determinate. I suspect this means there are more or less 100% chances it is hybrid...? Hard to say. Odds would favor it being hybrid but I don't know what the percentage might be in foreign markets. Dave |
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| determinates have terminal blooms at the ends of the branches. That isn't the only difference. I did not say that it is THE ONLY difference, |
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