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reach_for_the_sun

I need your help to save these plants

Reach_For_The_Sun
10 years ago

I need some help before they all die.

I planted 3 days ago. Since then it has probably rained 3-5 inches. I thought that they are probably dying from too much water and not being able to breath. I dug down 15" next to one of then and it fills with about 4 inches of water. The bottom of the plant itself is 8" below grade.

Since planting it has been between 70-85 with high humidity.

They are in a new raised bed that I think now I have made into a bathtub. I was trying to give them the best depth of good soil rather than clay. I dug out and tilled down about a foot and filled it back in with a good mix that I have in my other beds.

I don't know if what you see in the photos is transplant shock or a result of all the rain. I also do not know if I should leave the situation as it is or put in something like a french drain along one side of the bed so that the water has some where to drain as more rain is expected.

Please help me save these plant and fix this problem. Any information of advice is appreciated.

Or am I just over reacting to both how the plants look and the water situation?

Thank You

Comments (13)

  • 2ajsmama
    10 years ago

    Same thing happened to mine in 2011. Since you just planted, you should be able to pull them out and put them back in pots to dry out a bit (I wouldn't do this if it was going to be hot and dry but you said more rain is expected). If you think that bed is going to have poor drainage all season, then yes I'd try to correct that now. But you got an unusually large amount of rain in the past 3 days (we got that much over a week, and that's close to a month's worth!).

    Is the bed actually raised, or is it a 1t deep trench filled with loose soil (and water)? If your native soil is clay then yes you made a bathtub (I did the same thing on top of glacial till) and it's going to take lot to correct it, you might be better putting the tomatoes somewhere else and putting something with shallow roots there.

  • Reach_For_The_Sun
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    I can't say that I would like to put out 24 plants, but it would server me right. But everything else is in and no where else to put them.

    Did you leave your plants in? Did they recover?

    Now that you mention it it might just be a trench but I hope it isn't that bad. As you can see in the photo part of it is above ground. The natural grade slopes down from right to left and back to front slightly. The left side is 1.5" above the bed on left and about three lower than the one on the right.

    My idea was to dig down across the front lower than the depth I went originally and have the water migrate there hopefully. Do you think that would solve the problem?

  • 2ajsmama
    10 years ago

    You can try it. 24 tomatoes is a lot to move. Mine never did recover - the coup de grace was 12" of rain in Aug 2011 (3 times the normal amount). They all drowned, I was left with 12 determinates on high ground near the house but they got diseased (as did the squas, cukes, everything).

  • tdscpa
    10 years ago

    I'm having trouble understanding how plants in a raised bed can be drowning.

    I plant my garden on raised rows, because I have a lot of run-off that dumps into my garden. The only water problems I have are 1: erosion of the planted raised rows closest to the downspout from my shop, and, 2: any open furrows not yet planted when I get a downpour. I no longer plant potatoes, so the only thing i now plant in furrows is corn.

  • Reach_For_The_Sun
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    After the next rain there was 9 inches of water in the hole which is just and inch below their bases. I decided to bite the bullet and pull all of them out and dig it out to the clay base. I sure hope they make it through.

    Even though I have read that putting clay back in will not make it like the clay that I dug out that is the my best option. I just don't like the idea of drainage system when if I would have not dug so far and just set the bed on top after I took off the sod like I did with my other two then things would have been fine.

    This is my plan, please tell me what you think. I am going to get some clay that is of similar compactabiliy as that which I dug out. Then put it in the hole and match it to the grade on the four corners so that it is essentially just like it would have been after I took off the sod. Compact that as I go to make it as firm as I can. Then as the water drains through the garden soil it will hit the clay and as I read move lateral, thus in the same path as the other beds and as it should have been before I messed it up. Raise the sides so that it is actually a raised bed.

    Also as I see now with all this rain (another 1.5" yesterday) my garden soil seem too compact(granted it was essentially sitting in a pool of water). It has essentially no aggregate of any size in it. I was thinking when I put it back in to add something like agricultural sand and pea gravel. I know I have read sand is a bad idea but it does not appear to be as fine as mason sand.

    Again any thoughts are appreciated thanks.

  • 2ajsmama
    10 years ago

    I was looking at container forum for growing tips (lots of people asking me for container plants yesterday). Found a link to this thread which explains why adding larger articles won't work. If you've got a good mix in the bed, don't mess with it by adding more clay. Even filling in what you dug out with the exact same material you dug out isn't going to work /c you've changed the soil structure just by digging - the sides of the "tub" are going to be denser than the stuff you shovel back in (though I guess with clay maybe you can tamp it down harder - sandy loam doesn't work that way). So it will always tend to pool in that trench/tub.

    I think what you're going to have to do is put in perforated pipe (French drain) or maybe you can figure something to "wick" it out - consider your bed a large container.

    Hope this helps

    Here is a link that might be useful: Container mix/drainage thread

  • Reach_For_The_Sun
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

    For better or for worse as I took all 24 tomatoes out and as I said I filled back in to the grade that surrounds the bed. It is close to what it would have been if I just removed the sod and put the bed on top. I tamped as I filled in so it would be as solid as I could make it with 20lb hand tamper and a 15lb patio block dropped from over my head. Some of the fill was a little rocky but I did get a couple some good sticky clay layers in there to fill in the all the voids and make it as impermeable as the surrounding ground.

    It was contoured with about a 2 inch drop both along the width and length dumping to the lowest corner of the bed which is above ground so it can drain out. I also put in a drain from highest to the lowest point hoping that would catch any excess and dump it out.

    Looking at my soil mix either it had way too much organic material in it or it was just that way because it was soaked, I remixed it with some top soil, agricultural sand, peat and vermiculite and through in a some gypsum in between some of the layers as I filled it back in. I put in some super phosphate to hopefully get some roots going quickly also.

    The bed was raised another 4.5" inches also to meet the bed on its right.

    The tomatoes are now back in their final resting place, I guess that sounds bad. Hopefully with the grade coming back up to meet the rest, the slope, the drain, the remixed soil, and the additionaly height the bed will drain properly and the tomatoes will come back to life. Some of them took it worse than others but I hope they make it, if not I guess I can sucker off the other 12 I have in containers and use those.

  • Reach_For_The_Sun
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Finished Bed

  • Reach_For_The_Sun
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Tomato plants or what is left of them.

  • jadie88
    10 years ago

    That is a lot of work! I hope you keep us updated on the "fruits" of your labor. :). Happy growing!

  • Reach_For_The_Sun
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Yes, for me it was a lot of work, my back can attest to that. I did have two others helping, but hopefully it was worth it. The next day it rained 3 inches so I hope we got it right, only time will tell.

  • sjetski
    10 years ago

    Does seem like weather, possible drainage & transplant issues, combined. The bad part is the plants are now prone to infections. I'd snip, or partially snip any branches hanging too close to the ground, those often get infected first.

    Hard to tell from the pics, but yes, you should probably swap out any plants that look heavily affected. You may also want to begin treatment sprays, a few popular ones that work well are serenade, copper, sulphur, daconil (google search). You can alternate between two different sprays, just spread it out over a week or two, or right after rainstorms.

    This post was edited by sjetski on Sat, Jun 8, 13 at 9:25

  • Reach_For_The_Sun
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    When I pulled them out I did spray them with Fungonil.I mulched with newspaper and grass over top so that there would be less soil splashing onto the leaves. Sprayed again today.

    I don't know whether to take off the diseased looking leaves as that is only what some of them have. So I figure some leaves is better than none. I will have to wait on my container tomatoes to get suckers before I can replace them so I will have to wait either way.

    This post was edited by Reach_For_The_Sun on Sat, Jun 8, 13 at 21:45