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| If a tomato plant is a vine, and I think everyone agrees it is, when did we start growing it up off the ground? And are we really better off having done so? Does anyone know if the yield of a tomato plant is better if it is grown upright and supported versus being allowed to sprawl unsupported on straw or whatever on the ground? Some vines such as cucumbers are grown in cages or on a trellis. Others such as cantaloupes, water melons, and pumpkins are usually not. Do tomatoes do better up or down? |
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| Not all tomatoes are vines, only indeterminate varieties. Many gardeners continue to grow them using sprawl even today if the have the room to do so. But growing them vertically has also been around for more than two centuries if not more as I have seen some old photos of supported plants taken in the early 1800s where wires similar to grape vine supports were used. What triggered the first vertical tomato plant I can't say but I'd bet that room to grow more plants played a part. Also would bet that less spoilage and damage from pests and ground contact was a factor. So "do better" when that means useful production and overall plant health? I've done both and I'd vote for up - no contest. Dave |
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| I asked this question because I read somewhere that transpiration, the movement of water and nutrients through the vascular system of a tomato plant from the roots to the leaves, was negatively effected by gravity. So I was wondering if you get bigger tomatoes with a plant on the ground rather than up in the air and maybe more as well. |
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- Posted by carolyn137 z4/5 NY (My Page) on Wed, Jun 11, 14 at 10:47
| For rather detailed reasons, I've grown the same variety both by sprawling, as I did for most of my tomatoes, and the same varieties, sometimes in the same season at a different place, by caging, and saw no difference at all in any traits of those two methods,''It was much easier for me to determine how large a variety grew by Sprawling, than it was when growing in cages, When someone says variety X grew 12 ft tall, that means nothing to me as a trait of a vaariety, and Charles Wilbur has a record for the tallest plant grown,I forget how high right now, I think closeto 3o ft and pictures of that plant show it loaded with fruits. As I look out in my backyard I see very tall trees, flourishing, and gravity is not an issue there, Just ask the local maple sap folks in my area and they'll tell you about sap production. Both trees and tomato plants have xylem and phloem to transport nutrients and water and maintain internal pressure. I never staked tomatoes, never trained them to two leader stems, but Dave is right that some in Italy and elsewhere, would grow then by staking, b/c space was a concern, still is,and also would grow them on trellises as they would grapes. Carolyn |
This post was edited by carolyn137 on Wed, Jun 11, 14 at 12:50
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| The theory you read about transpiration is false. Ignore it. |
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- Posted by johns.coastal.patio USDA 10b, Sunset 24 (My Page) on Wed, Jun 11, 14 at 12:43
| My tomatoes don't seem that vine-ish, except where they touch the wall of my garage, and then they do seem to cling and grow along it a bit. I'd say modern tomatoes are a little vine-ish, but not vines in the real sense |
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| Not "vines"as in cling and/or climb on their own or have tendrils that allow them to climb. Tomato plants (indeterminates) are "trailing vines" or "creeping vines" like the many other vines that don't cling or climb on their own - sweet potatoes, portulaca, petunias, etc.. I asked this question because I read somewhere that transpiration, the movement of water and nutrients through the vascular system of a tomato plant from the roots to the leaves, was negatively effected by gravity. Sorry as I missed getting that point in your original post. But as Jean said, it reflects a lack of understanding about how the circulatory system of tomato plants work. That doesn't mean that if the vine was allowed to grow to extreme heights gravity would still have no effect at all. But based on all my reading, for average height plants of 6-10' it has little to no documented effect. Dave |
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| Thanks for all the input. The transpiration thing came from a research paper I reviewed awhile back. Thanks again. |
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- Posted by carolyn137 z4/5 NY (My Page) on Wed, Jun 11, 14 at 21:41
| I asked this question because I read somewhere that transpiration, the movement of water and nutrients through the vascular system of a tomato plant from the roots to the leaves, was negatively effected by gravity. So I was wondering if you get bigger tomatoes with a plant on the ground rather than up in the air and maybe more as well. ******* Yes, tomato leaves transpire , but that's not connected to gravity, and it's the transpiration of the leaves that's connected to issues having to do with BER ( blossom end rot). But gravity is not part of that picture of leaf transpiration. Carolyn |
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