|
| Do you always remove all the suckers, or do you let a few grow out, depending on your discretion? Do you let your tomatoes develop 2 or 3 or 4 "leaders"? My theory is that if there is enough room for a sucker, then why not let it grow, and allow the bush to get up to 4 leaders, as long as the bush does not get too congested - thanks, paul m. |
Follow-Up Postings:
|
| I haven't cut anything off my tomato plants except the tomatoes this year. Now that I have taller sturdy cages, lots of growth is less of a concern and I figure the leaves help make the plant stronger. |
This post was edited by lucille on Tue, Jun 4, 13 at 9:53
|
| No such thing as "suckers". It is an old label for what are really lateral branches that produce fruit. It is a term from back in the day when folks didn't understand how tomatoes grow and so thought those branches "sucked" energy from the plant and never produced fruit. None of it is true. Any pruning is strictly optional and is never required and will cost you fruit production. Determinate varieties are never pruned. Like Lucille said, I never remove (prune) any branches from my plants except those really low ones that drag the ground and never have in over 50 years of growing tomatoes. Literally 100's of discussions and even a FAQ here about all this and I linked some of them below. Dave |
Here is a link that might be useful: Pruning FAQ and discussions
|
| My understanding of the term "lateral" is something coming off from the side. Seems to me this would include all secondary branches coming off the main leaders. The many videos and articles I have read describes "suckers" as the later and smaller growth above/between the lateral branches and main leader. As with any living plant...the theory of pruning is often to increase vitality and strength to the fewer recipients (branches) of the plants vitality. Make sense to me...however, you certainly need enough leaf area to obtain sun/uv benefits. There are differing views on pruning tomatoes...for sure. |
|
| Keep in mind that we aren't talking about the leaves when discussing pruning. The leaves on a tomato plant may look like a branch of sorts since a leaf is made up of several leaflets but they aren't a branch. As with any living plant...the theory of pruning is often to increase vitality and strength to the fewer recipients (branches) of the plants vitality Yes, that is the "theory". Unfortunately there is little evidence to support the theory. Testing shows that when plants are pruned there is only a marginal, if any, increase in remaining fruit size and no effect on flavor or nutrient levels. So the question becomes why sacrifice so much production for such marginal returns? There are differing views on pruning tomatoes...for sure. Very true. Unfortunately many of those views are based on myth or a lack of knowledge about plant anatomy. Many good 'anatomy of a tomato plant' guides are available online. Dave |
|
| I let them grow...grow I say. Everyone you cut off just reduces the potential yield in my opinion. |
|
| The saga and differing opinions continue...I am going to relate to you something I am more of an expert on than tomatoes...but you may see some parallels. I have grown peaches for many decades. I know if I do not thin the peaches drastically...I will end up with many small/undersized peaches. I am confident this is true. Does this theory of thinning for vitality vanish when talking about other fruits or vegetables? Perhaps there is some difference in how much energy is required for fruiting vs. branching out and leafing. You be the judge. |
|
| Look at it this way fireduck - do the same theories and methods used for growing peaches apply to growing corn? or melons? Do you prune peppers? or squash? or eggplants? Each fruit and vegetable has its own growing guidelines. But generalizing from one crop to ALL crops or even to another crop, whether one is talking about watering or feeding or plant spacing or pest control or even pruning, can lead to all sorts of misleading conclusions. The need to selectively prune various fruit trees is well documented. So is the loss of production and the stress to the plant and the minimal increase in fruit size when it comes to pruning tomatoes. I do not say there is never a need to prune tomatoes plants or even that it should never be done. Its need is directly tied to the type of support system used, the space available for growing, and the plant spacing used. When those factors can't be adjusted to accommodate a standard plant then some pruning may be required and that is the option of the grower. What I object to is the enduring myths that have repeatedly been proven to be false both by research and in common practice by the thousands of gardeners that successfully grow tomato plants annually without any pruning. Those myths that pruning MUST be done, that tomato plants MUST be pruned to a single stem, that so-called suckers MUST be removed, that the so-called suckers will leach energy and nutrients from the plant, and that they will not produce fruit are all patently false. Dave |
|
| I limit my plants to 4 main stems and still get more fruit than I can eat or give away. I do this because I have limited space. I can't go out, |
|
| D...points well taken... |
|
| thanks all for a very nice discussion - I'm just going to let things go rampant this year - I have one Black Krim that has 10 leaders on it, and each leader has 2-3 tomatoes, plus blooms, etc., so I think I also agree they can be let go rampant - I have 20 Purple Cherokee that I also will basically let go rampant - have a nice day, paul m. |
|
| A clip from Gary Ibsen (tomatoe expert): Is pruning necessary at all? Pruning is not necessary at all. However, if you want taller plants or huge fruits you will need to prune excess vines that start to form where the leaf meets the main stem. It turns out that different tomato cultivars vary in their response to sucker removal. For some, light pruning (removing the first four suckers) results in the greatest yield; for others, no pruning gives the highest yield. Experiment with your favorite variety. |
|
- Posted by Coconut_Head 5b (My Page) on Fri, Jun 7, 13 at 15:54
| The only real benefit I can see to Pruning is possibly plant spacing and airflow. For instance, last year I planted close, like 24 inches and supported with a florida weave. This compressed the foilage and made for a pretty happy home for various fungal diseases. I think this year I will sucker to 4 main leaders to improve airflow so that I might hold off the blight for a little longer this season. I am also field planting tomatoes with 4 Ft spacing and using CRW cages for support. I probably won't sucker those at all. CH |
|
| Thinning peaches and suckering tomatoes are not a good analogy at all. First of all, when you thin peaches, you are taking off some of the entire fruit crop, so that the remaining fruit will be bigger. Taking off suckers on tomatoes is taking off stems, leaves AND fruit. Second, peaches grow fruit once a year. Tomatoes are constantly growing and fruiting (even determinate ones, to some extent) A better analogy to removing "suckers" would be training fruit trees to an espalier, which absolute reduces the amount of fruit you get (altough they look very tidy and cool! ) Nobody would argue cutting off most of the branches of a fruit tree every year increases production! If you want volume of tomatoes, refrain from hacking off the green parts. If you want controlled branches with one or two HUGE tomatoes, then by all means take out the "suckers". Carla in Sac |
|
| Well it might be an age old debate about : To prune or Not to Prune. Home gardeners seem to draw many theories from their own experience, from what their grandfather told them and what their neighbor is telling them. I think in general, this kind of things expands the body of our knowledge and in the long run we all benefit from doing things by THINKING & REASONING rather than depending on "WHATEVER WILL BE, WILL BE... " So here I am with my book of philosophy about pruning tomatoes. An analogy that I find is pruning grape vines. I wonder why those vine growers and wine makers do that? Shouldn't more vines produce more grapes? About the nature of Tomato planst: It seems that they don't believe in "Planned Parenthood". They have a very greedy nature to keep on keeping on to grow branches, flower clusters and green tomatoes and more laterals up until the normal frost date. Somehow, in their system, there is no such a thing as ; There is a season that will end. Probably because they came originally from somewhere that there was no such a thing as FROST. So, as a gardener , I have to interfere and draw the lines, make rules : "Thou Shall not Have More Children Than You Can Support!." I have an ego, you know ! I want to be the master of my own destiny and even that of the tomato plant. I don't want to end up with buckets full of green tomatoes when the cold winds blow and the birds migrate and go, even the crow...How much green tomato does a man (or woman) need for pickling and frying? |
This post was edited by seysonn on Sat, Jun 8, 13 at 8:39
|
| thanks for all the really useful pointers - have a nice day, paul m. |
|
| Paul - on another thread you posted Hi, I asked this question, about suckers, and overwhelming response is DO NOT CUT ANY SUCKERS!!! This is like having a sailboat, and throwing away the sails, and then wondering why you are going nowhere - I think if that is the conclusion you cane to from the answers to your question then you mis-understood much of the information provided. No one said " DO NOT CUT ANY SUCKERS!!!" and doing so does NOT ruin the plants. You asked if suckers were good or bad. They aren't "bad", since there really is no such thing. It is just a misleading negative label slapped on the lateral leader branches. How many of them get left on or get removed is determined by your reasons for pruning, your support system, your plant spacing, the length of your growing season, and your goals for production. There are no absolute rules when it comes to raising tomatoes. There are too many variables to be considered. Dave |
|
| I thought i'd join in since i've already taken part in a similar discussion. Long story short - removing "suckers" is a part of gardening school/philosophy, originating mainly from the fact that climate zones vary greatly and therefore some do not provide the growing season long enough for full production (or warm and stable summers). Removing "suckers" (lateral branches) will speed up the fruiting and ripening and will give you tomatoes sooner, and in cooler climates, on the expense of the total production. It's simply a trade-off - (a lot) lower yield but guaranteed ripe tomatoes vs. possibly a huge load of green tomatoes. Keep in mind that this applies to COOLER climates (i've been ordering seeds from UK for instance and they always recommend removing suckers). With my continental climate here, zone 6, my safe start for transplanting is May the 1st, although i usually get them out mid-April since we rarely have frost that late (last year it struck April 13th though). Our summers are warm, mostly stable and the season usually lasts till the end of October, which makes all sucker removal pointless - they would cost a lot of production. For instance, i grow a lot of Sungolds, which take 60 days from transplanting to ripe fruit. Mid-April + 60 days = Mid-June, when i start picking them. Then i got July, August, September and a part of October. Thats a long period, which allows a lot of fruit to ripen. Then there are factors that Dave already mentioned (support system, spacing etc.). Know your climate and act accordingly :) Cheers, |
|
| I read that you shouldn't prune suckers if they are above a flowering part of the tomato. They will shade it and make more fruits. |
|
- Posted by williammorgan 6b (My Page) on Mon, Jun 10, 13 at 7:59
| I watch others prune their tomatoes to a single stem and long before the frost they have a few tomatoes, no leaves and funeral services to come. I generally don't prune much unless I'm cloning. There can be problems with no pruning though. If your plants are too close together the airflow will become a problem. Certain diseases could come about and you can expect a lot of spiders. Excessive pruning while good for airflow I think slowly kills the plant and denies it's true potential. Instead of pruning just make sure you don't over fertilize. I've got tomatoes in a greenhouse and some have 4 stems of equal girth from the base up. It's gonna get crowded as things fill out but I want massive production. I might add a fan this summer to help with airflow but I won't be pruning any time soon. |
|
| I grow 100 to 150 tomato plants in my garden every year and I never trim ANYTHING off a tomato, if I can help it, except, sometimes I trim the very early blossoms, if I am worried the plant isn't ready to grow the fruit. I see no reason to trim branches or 'twigs' from the tomatoes, since I figure nature does a good enough job, and I still get very early production and large amounts of tomatoes which are the envy of everyone who sees my garden. How many farmers go into their field and 'trim' the 'suckers' off their tomato plants. I doubt any real farmers do it. How many tomato plants were developed and bred using a method where trimming suckers was important? I doubt very many. They were probably mostly grown on healthy 'natural' plants, so why would you think that 'artificial' pruning is likely to benefit it. I say, let nature take its course in this respect UNLESS you are using some special staking or caging method where it is important to control where and how your plant develops. Of course, I also live in a relatively dry, desert climate, so airflow and buildup of excessive moisture in the plants is rarely a problem. Pruning COULD open up the plant to extra airflow, but it should probably still only be used if you find you have problems with this. As for fertilization, I agree that you shouldn't over fertilize, or you will get excessive vegetative growth and actually DELAY the production of fruit. I keep the fertilizer relatively light, and I almost NEVER fertilize after June 1st. That is my fertilizer cut off day. |
|
| The main stem of my tomatoes do a major split (fork) at about 12" to 18" above the ground. My first tie is at this point or a few inches above, by looping a strip of cloth around the plant and stapling it to the wooden stake. Any suckers that are not captured within this tie are topped, i.e. just the growing tip removed. If I let these branches grow, I will either have to go back later and tie them, creating a dense base, or they will lean over and drop to the ground, often breaking. I prefer to keep the lower part of the plants more airy and all branches above the fork supported. More air circulation, cleaner appearance, and less work. TomNJ/VA |
|
| again, a very nice discussion, probably with my climate in Sault Ste. Marie, which is just slightly north of upper UP Michigan, I'll start to keep the garden in check at the beginning of September, I am hoping to extend my season by covering with a hoop house/ plastic when it starts to get chilly - if we get a warm fall, that will certainly help - have a nice day, paul m. :) |
Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum. If you are a member, please log in. If you aren't yet a member, join now!
Return to the Growing Tomatoes Forum
Information about Posting
- You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
- Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
- After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
- Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
- We have a strict no-advertising policy!
- If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
- If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.
Learn more about in-text links on this page here





