hey bill, i looked it up in some pics and the only on listed DR.carolyn is yellow, cherry. To me it looks yellow but is listed as creamy white,cherry. Mybe pink is a new one out. bill w.

For some reason, I was not expecting this one to be a small grape or cherry type tomato, but that is what is

***** Absolutely true that's what it is.

A wee bit of background here.

Many years ago I saved seeds from Galina's Yellow, and when I planted out those saved seeds I got plants, all of which had cherry tomatoes, in colors such as red, pink, salmon, yellow and ivory. And none of them had the PL leaf form of Galina's Yellow.

I loved the ivory one b'c it was a strong plant, and the cherries had some of the great taste one gets with Galina's. I called it Ivory Mutant at the time, but to this day I don't understand what went on genetically.

At the same time Steve Draper in Utah was also getting strange stuff from saved Galina's seeds and he asked me to send the ivory one to him and I did.

He loved it and much to my amazement he named it Dr. Carolyn and listed it in the SSE Yearbook without my ever knowing he was going to do that.

Dr. Carolyn has thrown some red fruited plants from time to time and also some pink fruited plants.

A fellow SSE member sent me the seeds for a pink fruited one that he called Dr. Carolyn Pink.

Now things get interesting.

In growing out those Dr. Carolyn Pink seeds I got plants that had fruits the same size as the Dr. Carolyn fruits and some plants were pink fruited and had fruits that were quite a bit larger.

And I didn't like the large fruited pink ones as well as the small ones, re taste.

I could take seeds from the large fruited one and plant them out and get both kinds of plants and I could take seeds from the small fruited ones and plant them out and get both kinds.

So if you're planting out more than one plant, I think the smaller fruited ones that are the same size as the original Dr. Carolyn taste best, at least for me.

Carolyn

hey bill, i looked it up in some pics and the only on listed DR.carolyn is yellow, cherry. To me it looks yellow but is listed as creamy white,cherry. Mybe pink is a new one out. bill w.

*****

Dr. Carolyn is ivory but like ALL so called white varieties the final color is dependent on the degree of foliage cover as well as the strength of UV.

Dr. Carolyn Pink is not new, it's been around a bit, as first listed in the SSE Yearbook quite a few years ago. But I never sent it for trial to the places where I often do that. And there are few , or have been a few, commercial places who have sold it.

I was hesitant to send it out for trial since there was this genetic instability that I had detected with regard to size. And I also have noted this with my listing in the SSE Yearbook.

Carolyn

Thanks Billtex, that is about what I found when searching.

Thanks Carolyn, that is what I wanted tor know. So, if I understand it right, the small ones taste best (and it looks like these are small), if I save seeds I might get more small ones with the next generation, OR, I might get the larger ones..

I think that I will save some seeds when I get some ripe ones and try them again to see what I get.
Bill P.

thanks carolyn for clearing up the confusion. bill w.

You are in for a treat with the Dr. Carolyn Pink. It tends to be a medium large cherry size about 3/4 to 7/8 of an inch diameter and it has a small hole where the blossom end scar should be. The flavor is complex with a bit more sugar content than average. It is one of my 3 favorite cherry tomatoes. Wait till you try a ripe one!

Fusion

Thanks fusion. I am eager to try them. The other ripe tomatoes that I have started getting seem somewhat bland because of all the rain. It has rained a couple of times per day for several days in a row now and it is in the forecast for the rest of the week. Most unusual. At least it has lifted the fireworks bans over most of the N.E. part of the state, except for within many city limits.

It still seems almost unbelievable to me that that I have had no BER or rot of any kind except for two tomatoes resting against each other that held water droplets and developed side rot. No splitting or cracking at all thus far on any of the varieties.
Bill P.

Oh, I am so glad for this thread.

I was just now in my garden, thinking really hard about yanking out my Dr. Carolyn Pink plant. The one I grew apparently has the larger size cherry tomatoes (about an inch and a half) and a very bland flavor. They aren't "spitters" but they aren't something I would choose to eat. The flavor is not sweet, more like a washed out store-bought ethylene-ripened tomato. They are a bit mealy with little of the gel that you (well, I) expect from a cherry tomato. I have been trying to convince myself that I was picking them too early or that they need the hot part of the summer to get tasty, but now I just think they aren't to my particular taste.

I got my seeds from Marianna's. I gave quite a few of these plants away, too. They are EXTREMELY vigorous plants, outstripping everybody, including the black cherries, in growth rate. However, they don't produce as many tomatoes as other cherries I have grown. Also, the calyx is extremely large for a cherry, more suitable for a large beefsteak, actually, and it is attached VERY firmly at all stages of ripeness, so that you can't just twist it off.

Maybe I'll get to taste the small kind some day. Still I'm disappointed. I was eager to have a good tasting pink-ish cherry tomato, heh.

Are there any other good pink cherries out there? (Please don't suggest any grapes -- I have never had a grape tomato I liked.)

Hi Bill
I've been growing the Dr.C pink and ivory for a few years, they are distinctive in taste and I have found quite tasty. I haven't gotten smaller ones as mentioned above, usually the fruit is about an inch and a half on the pink ones and the ivory are somewhat ovalish, not a complete oval like a grape but definitly not totally round. This year I did not start any of them because I've been wanting to try some new varieties here for us, and I just didn't have the room for the Doctor "C's" I think you will like them, but like all cherry tomatoes, they do split with too much rain.
Alberta

Hey G-Fish! missed Ya that melon question I had.......Catch Ya later on that, but as for this variety? Got me sleepin.....Ive never heard of it until now...Learn sumptin new every day! Gona check my catalogs, and thanks for the Info.....GG....Blane!

Genetics are weird. Obviously, Carolyn, you have spent your entire life studying them, and comprehend more than most of us what is going on with which genes, and such. Yet to the more mundane gardeners such as myself, watching these mysteries and flukes arise is like some beautiful cosmic ballet. Dr. Carolyn Pink is a great 'mater... as is the other Dr. Carolyn, and Galinas for that matter. Have a similair situation going on with that Anans Noire cherry thingy. Had a bit of an epiphany last night, after bantering with you, dear Mrs. C. Hows about I let you have first dibs on those seeds when I start passing them out this fall? You can name it "Bad Boy" as was discussed in another thread. That'd really crack me up... Although, you might wanna call it "Bad Lil Boy", as it is a cherry tomato. Gosh I love this time of year... Happy Gardening 2007-B-ri

Hows about I let you have first dibs on those seeds when I start passing them out this fall? You can name it "Bad Boy" as was discussed in another thread. That'd really crack me up... Although, you might wanna call it "Bad Lil Boy", as it is a cherry tomato. Gosh I love this time of year... Happy Gardening 2007-B-ri

****

You're on Brian, I'll happily look for those seeds this Fall.

And I'm sure that between us we can come up with a suitable name, but Sheesh, I'm not too sure anyone would shout with joy if you named it Lil Bad Boy. LOL

But I'm remembering that YOU are the one who named what we now know as Neves Azorean Red by the clever name of Perry's Teasum. LOL

Folks, just a wee bit of background. I got the seeds from Chuck Perry, knew I had a winner the first time I grew it, but the deer kept wiping out my crop for seeds for two years in a row, yet I didn't stop talking about it.

Hence, Brian called it Perry's Teasum, until I started a thread here once I had enough seeds to list it in the SSE Yearbook, and let everyone name it based on the background info I'd received. There were 22 folks who participated and I ended up sending seeds for NAR to all of them.

Carolyn

Lol Carolyn, You missed on that one. I was the one who started calling it Perry's Teasum. You see, Teasum was the handle of a beautiful young South African woman that I chatted with online quite a bit back in 1998/1999. She ..... deserved the handle, if you get what I mean.

Sometimes I miss Sumira J. aka Teasum.

Fusion

Lol Carolyn, You missed on that one. I was the one who started calling it Perry's Teasum. You see, Teasum was the handle of a beautiful young South African woman that I chatted with online quite a bit back in 1998/1999. She ..... deserved the handle, if you get what I mean.

******

So much for my heretofore perfect memory. LOL

And today it hurts more than most days 'cause it's me B-day ( Chocolate Indulgence Cake awaiting, LOL)

But I'm sure Brian will play the role of the original perp on this issue with his usual flare for the innocent accused, as oft he does. LOL

Brian, that's a compliment if you weren't too sure. LOL

Carolyn

Carolyn, Happy B-day! Wishing you many, many more.

Since you are on the subject of cherries, does anyone know the origin of SunSugar hybrid? Here is why I am asking...Last year I allowed a couple of "volunteers" to grow in my garden that were no doubt from SunSugars that had fallen on the ground the previous year. They produced a salmon/pink cherry and I saved the seeds from that cherry and am growing it again this year and it is breeding true-that is the fruits on the plants I have now are the same salmon/pink. I know it is dehybridizing in a crude fashion, but it got me wondering what series of crosses led to SunSugar.

but it got me wondering what series of crosses led to SunSugar.

*****

No way to know since all info about modern hybrids is proprietary information that is never shared.

However, almost all cherries with that flat truss trait, such as Sun Gold, and I think Sun Sugar, are known to have genetic input from a currant tomato ( S. pimpinellifolium) b'c that's where the flat truss trait comes from. Most currant tomatoes are red.

It's also possible that your volunteers are the result of a cross pollination between Sun Sugar and something else you were growing. Small fruit size is partially dominant to large fruit size.

How many plants are you putting out to look for genetic segregation?

This might be the time to mention that Santa F1 saved seeds give 99/100 true to Santa F1 as regards fruits and taste, the offtype being round and has a lower sugar content. So even though you might have had something nice in the F2 growout, you wouldn't really know what might be going on unless you's planted out lots of plants.

Sun Sugar being a hybrid, I wouldn't expect to get pure breeding so quickly, unless the situation is akin to that of Santa F1.

Carolyn

Carolyn

HAPPY BIRTHDAY CAROLYN! !

Thanks to all of you that provided information on this little tomato.
Bill P.

Dr. Carolyn, first let me also wish you a happy birthday. To answer your question, I only planted 2 or 3 of the saved pink/salmon cherries because of lack of space, etc. I am saving some again this year to see what they do next time around. Interestingly, I have a volunteer where the volunteers were last year and it is also the salmon/pink. The flavor of these is somewhat tart, not at all sweet like the SunSugar. Thanks for responding to my part of this thread.

For an update on my Dr. Carolyn Pink. The constant and incessant rain has done in the plant it seems, but I am getting some off the plant. I looked it over carefully this morning to see if there was a healthy growing tip that I might get a cutting from, but there are not any that look worth trying.

I have found in this little tomato, one of the two best tasting small tomatoes (when fully ripe) that I have ever had, if not the best. We have now had three days without monsoonal rains, just a scattered shower or two, and the taste of the tomatoes is much better, less watery and bland.

From what has been posted above, perhaps these are the larger ones, being and there is no little hole in the blossom end. (I was unable to get a good picture trying to block the flash). That does not seem very big to me. As good as these taste, if there are some smaller that taste even better, I sure would like to find some seed for them. If I understand what I read above, seed from these may make either the smaller ones, or the larger ones. Of course, I realize that taste is subjective depending on a number of things.

To that end, does anyone know a source of those true, smaller seed (if I do not have the small one) where I can buy seed???

I did save some seed, they are fermenting now and when that is done and they are dry, I will plant some to test germination. If I get some good looking little seedlings, I will probably try to grow some for fall.
Thanks
Bill P.

If I understand what I read above, seed from these may make either the smaller ones, or the larger ones. Of course, I realize that taste is subjective depending on a number of things.

***

That's correct Bill, saved seed from small fruited ones can give plants with small or larger cherries and it's been that way since I received the seeds from Robert Martin, who also named it Dr. Carolyn Pink.

I can't tell you how many times I've saved from the small fruited ones trying to get a pure line of small fruited ones, but so far no go.

*****

To that end, does anyone know a source of those true, smaller seed (if I do not have the small one) where I can buy seed???

I highly doubt that there's anyone except myself who has tried to get a pure breeding OP line of smalls. If folks only plant out 1 or 2 plants they may not see what you and I both have seen with regard to fruit size differences.

So no, I know of no small breeding line anywhere and thus no seed source for same. Sigh.

REmembering how the variety Dr. Carolyn came to be from saved seed form Galina's Yellow and the fact that initially the variety Dr. Carolyn was throwing red fruited plants as well, and accepting the fact that I have no idea what went on with the saved seeds from Galina, I mean genetically, it doesn't surprise me one bit that odd things will continue to happen with this whole line. ( smile)

Carolyn

Thanks so much Carolyn, I do appreciate your response, you young whippersnapper, you. ":^) (reference your recent Birthday from me, one of the older posters on here.)

At my age, I don't mind rolling the dice some, on things like this. It will be interesting to see what I get, and hope to try some as soon as this fall.
Regards,
Bill P.

I finally yanked my DCP plant. It was healthy but the fruit just wasn't anything I would ever eat, and I didn't feel good giving it to neighbors because it was so bland. I got about 25 tomatoes off of it, when I yanked it, in various stages of ripeness. The mail lady wanted them so I gave them to her.

The size was a bit smaller than Eva Purple Ball, a little lighter in color. Based on Bill's statements about the taste, I have to assume that I got dud seeds from Marianna's.

On the good side, my other plants are getting more light!

Hi Bill(good name)
I received a Dr C from Darrel and it has 1 to 1.8in pink fruit very good-healthy RL 5ft tall and still growing. Its the best salad tomato ever.-In my book. Producing clusters 6 to 8 tender-thin skin A++
Good Luck
Bill R.

The size was a bit smaller than Eva Purple Ball,

******

Whoa, that's way too big; even bigger than the larger size DCP I've been talking about, assuming your Eva is about the 6-8 oz that it should be. Sigh.

Carolyn

I agree, this is my first year growing Eva Purple Ball also (is there something that gets purple about them?). than any cherry tomato that I have ever seen, including the Large Red Cherry. That name label is 4" long, so that would make those Eva Purple Balls about three inches in diameter, at least, I would think.
Bill P.

is there something that gets purple about them?).

******

No.

The word purple was used starting in the late 1800's to describe fruits that were pink, so there are many varieties that have purple as part of the name but are not purple. A couple of them would be Aunt Ginny's Purple, Prudens Purple, etc.,The only varieties that I know of that do have a purple tint to them are Noir des Cosebeauf and Purple Calabash, and while the former has one of the most beautiful fruits I've ever seen, I wouldn't grow either one again b'c the taste is not to my liking.

Carolyn

Some background is in order for the Dr. Carolyn Pink that I grow and sell. The seed originated from one of 3 plants that I grew in 2005 I think. This particular plant made fruit larger than normal and with a distinct "fleshy" texture that is not normally found in cherry tomatoes. The flavor was incredible. It was hands down the best cherry tomato I've ever eaten. Sweetness was high and well balanced with the overall tomato flavor. I saved several hundred seed and have grown them each year since.

As noted above, there is some variation in the fruit produced from these tomatoes. I am convinced that they are still segregating. Each time I have grown plants and saved seed, I saved only from the good flavored fruit that are similar to the original.

The divergence from the original Dr. Carolyn is significant in terms of fruit shape and size and most importantly in flavor. I looked back at some photos from last year and realized I described it above as 3/4 to 7/8 inch diameter but my photos are of a fruit closer to 1 inch or just a tad more. The original Dr. Carolyn Pink was distinctly low in sweetness and had relatively strong tomato flavor similar to Galina.

Fusion

Sounds like I have the large DCP. Large fruit for a cherry type, even a couple that had a sort of mini beefsteak appearance and were close to 2" across (most were not, these odd ones almost looked like fused/doubles). Flavor and texture is excellent. Was a big hit at SETTFest, several folks said it tasted more like a good, sweet pink mid-late season beefsteak type than a cherry.

Sounds like I have the large DCP. Large fruit for a cherry type, even a couple that had a sort of mini beefsteak appearance and were close to 2" across (most were not, these odd ones almost looked like fused/doubles). Flavor and texture is excellent. Was a big hit at SETTFest, several folks said it tasted more like a good, sweet pink mid-late season beefsteak type than a cherry.

*****

Good grief....... two inches across and some looked like a mini-beefsteak?

What O what has happened to my Dr. Carolyn Pink? LOL

I've got lots of seed of it, all saved from the original sent to me by Robert Martin, the SSE person who named it.

And I've never seen any small beefsteak type fruits, just round ones, Dr. Carolyn size on some plants and somewhat larger than Dr, Carolyn size on other plants.

Come late Fall if someone wants a few seeds of Dr. Carolyn Pink please e-mail me, but NOT now.

Fusion, I haven't seen any evidence of continuing genetic segregation as you suggested, just the instability between size which has been constant since Robert sent me those seeds in 1999. And as Suze knows, in my SSE listing for it I speak to the size difference so everyone knows up front what they might get if they plant out enough plants.

Carolyn

Carolyn, my seed is from you. ;0) But I only planted one plant, and it might not be representative of all the seeds you sent me. I re-gifted some of the seeds to M., and maybe he's planted more than one, so it will be interesting to see what he ends up with. Again, the majority of the fruits were not like that, just a couple that looked like they might have fused or something.

I took a picture earlier of a plateful earlier this year, and if/when I find it, I'll post it.

All in all, sounds more like a cross segregating out than a one time mutation.

All in all, sounds more like a cross segregating out than a one time mutation

*****

Bill, I don't agree.

Robert Martin sent me those seeds but there were others, including myself, who also got pink fruited plants. I just never saved seeds from them, wished I had and then his came along.

I never saved seeds from the red fruited ones that arose from Dr. Carolyn either.

Again, if you reread what I wrote above about how Dr. Carolyn came to be from saved seeds from Galina, you'll see that I have no idea what was going on genetically b'c I did send to Steve Draper the salmon and ivory ones and they grew true for him. I thought the yellow tasted lousy.

If it were a cross in the beginning I would have expected to see segregation and I didn't. I planted out many plants from the initial saved seeds from Galina and just got different colored cherries and no PL foliage either. And no PL foliage has shown up in anyones grow out of Dr. Carolyn, or Dr. Carolyn Pink.

I can't remember the name but there was this variety that continually did leaf form flip flop for me and others. Save seed from the PL and you'd get PL and RL. Save seeds from the RL and you'd get RL and PL plants.

Craig said he thought he had it stabilized but I've heard no more.

Look, I could care less if a cross was involved, really, but that's not what I've seen since 1999 with this Dr. Carolyn Pink, and it's not what I've seen with Dr. Carolyn either, as regards segregation.

But I fully admit that I'm at a loss to explain the genetics of what happened from the get go with saved seeds from Galina's Yellow, and Steve Draper got the same thing as I did with Galina, which is why he asked for my different colored cherries.

Must have been that the moon and Saturn were out of conjunction when all this happened. LOL

Carolyn

It is partially explained by the genetics involved. As an example of unexpected results, I had a Cherokee Green 3 years ago that was a salmon color where the sun shone on it and green on the shaded parts. I saved seed from the fruit of that plant and the next year I got 1 plant with green fruit, several with yellow fruit, several with red fruit, and 1 with pink fruit. The only explanation for that level of variation is that yellow color is carried on a separate chromosome from the gene for lycopene which causes red and pink color. The gene that causes green when ripe fruit must be a suppressor and is recessive to red but I think may be penetrant (partially expressed) in expression against yellow. The white when ripe genes would have to be recessive to just about everything else.

Not to berate the idea of a cross too much, but it is the most likely explanation for Dr. Carolyn Pink's attributes. Galina is an obvious potato leaf variety. Dr. Carolyn Pink is Regular leaf. Galina is a bright yellow/gold color. Dr. Carolyn is a bright pink. I could buy the possibility of a crossover event causing yellow to change to pink. But the odds of a crossover causing both yellow to pink and potato leaf to regular leaf is remote.

Any way you slice it, I love the flavor of my Dr. Carolyn Pink. With tomatoes, Flavor is everything!

Fusion

Not to berate the idea of a cross too much, but it is the most likely explanation for Dr. Carolyn Pink's attributes. Galina is an obvious potato leaf variety. Dr. Carolyn Pink is Regular leaf. Galina is a bright yellow/gold color. Dr. Carolyn is a bright pink. I could buy the possibility of a crossover event causing yellow to change to pink. But the odds of a crossover causing both yellow to pink and potato leaf to regular leaf is remote.

******

I'm not so sure I agree on a random X pollination event Darrel, and again, it makes no difference to me personally what mechanism ( s) might be invoked to try and explain what happened.

However, please remember that my initial saved seeds from Galina gave RL plants that had, variously, red, salmon, pink, yellow and ivory cherry sized fruits.

That I cannot understand and never will, to be honest.

The only one that got grown out and listed in the SSE Yearbook by Steve was the ivory one he named Dr. Carolyn and it's from THAT ivory one that plants with red and pink cherries occasionally appeared in different folks gardens.

That to me does not speak of random mutations seen in many different locales, nor, actually of a X pollination when one thinks of both red and pink being dominant to white and all being cherries with no larger sizes seen as one might expect if X pollination were random.

Maybe it's a jumping gene phenomenon re color, for jumping genes have been noted re tomatoes. Just pure conjecture on my part.

But again, with Dr. Carolyn Pink as it is, all we're seeing is a size differential with fruits and nothing else changes.

All I can say is that I accept this whole issue of the saved seeds from Galina and what happened subsequently even though I do not understand the genetics of it and I don't think I ever will unless I were to study the phenomenon in a lab situation in terms of X-some changes and gene expression.

Carolyn

Okay ... I agree that seeds grown from a typical yellow fruited, potato leaved Galinas throwing multiple colored fruit in the F1 generation seems incongruous with a genetics as explained in this forum over the past few years. And the likelihood of the potato leaved Galinas from which the seeds were taken being an F1 itself, which might explain the variations in F2 fruit color, seems remote as well. But could the Galinas from which the seeds were taken have been an F1 itself one of whom's parents was a hybrid itself? But then I'm a total neophyte with regard to hybrid genetics, and am dependent on what I've read here and at other tomato forums.

The reason I said it seems more like a cross segragating out than a one time mutation (as has been proposed in previous threads ... along with this befuddling "jumping gene" theory) is that we see in this thread "large pink," "small pink," "large pink with blossom scar pinholes," "large pink without pinhole blossom scars," "large pink cherrries that taste really good," "large that don't taste worth a hoot," "ivory that makes red and pink," etc. So, to me that suggests ongoing, anecdotal segregation rather than ongoing, rank mutations. But again ... I'm just an under-informed observer in all this.

I do find Fusion's account of that Cherokee Purple with the unusual ripening color variation that produced various skin tones in the next generation very informative. That's something to ponder right there, and I'd like to hear more about why something like that might occur.

But I think to say, "with Dr. Carolyn Pink as it is, all we're seeing is a size differential with fruits and nothing else changes" isn't quite the case here. There still seems to be other little subtleties going on ... many other subtleties. And then there's the earlier history to consider regarding leaf form change and especially the multiple colors showing up. What happened to those other "strains" with those several other colors? Did anyone pursue the ivory, yellow, red, etc. like they did the pink? Just curious what happened along those other lines.

Bill

But I think to say, "with Dr. Carolyn Pink as it is, all we're seeing is a size differential with fruits and nothing else changes" isn't quite the case here. There still seems to be other little subtleties going on ... many other subtleties. And then there's the earlier history to consider regarding leaf form change and especially the multiple colors showing up. What happened to those other "strains" with those several other colors? Did anyone pursue the ivory, yellow, red, etc. like they did the pink? Just curious what happened along those other lines.

*****

Bill, the Galina's Yellow plant was grown from seeds directly from High Altitutde Gardens right after Bill McDorman brought them back from the former Russia. I have no reason to believe they were hybrids based on others who also grew them out at the same time.

Yes, I'm saying that the only difference I've seen with Dr. Carolyn Pink is the size of fruits on different plants. Yet you say there are other subtleties.

What are they?

I don't know about any leaf form change unless you're talking about the cherry tomato plants with different colors all of which had RL foliage and not PL as does Galina's. Had I grown out more plants would I have seen some PL plants? I don't know. As it was I think I had maybe 6-8 plants.

I don't know of anyone who worked with the other colored cherries. I sent them to Steve Draper who at the time was in Utah, and he grew them out and liked the ivory one best, as did I. But I don't think he did anything with them and he was in the process of moving from the Salt Lake City area to Oregon, where he became Comptroller for the state and his tomato growing days were cut short b'c of ubiquitous Late Blight problems.

I haven't had contact with Steve in many years.

And yes, I remember Darrel's report of his Cherokee Purple from last year, I think it was.

Carolyn, who wonders if she even has those saved seeds of the various colored cherries. She came across a vial that was labelled Ivory mutant ( sic) this past year, and those were what became Dr. Carolyn, but she really didn't look for any others.

"I'm saying that the only difference I've seen with Dr. Carolyn Pink is the size of fruits on different plants. Yet you say there are other subtleties. What are they?" [Carolyn]

Well, since "taste is subjective," Ill leave out all but a few comments that vary on the taste differences  except for one taste reference from one person, since his taste perception is singular.

The biggie seems to be size variances  which again may be individual perception, unless folks are using calipers to take the measurements  but even you, Carolyn, say repeatedly here and in the SSE Yearbook that you are unable to select out the smaller Dr. Carolyn Pink and continue to get large cherries from the small cherry seeds and use the word "unstable" to describe that continuing condition.

Here are some other quotes that I think indicate some instability with regard to size, shape, and that blossom end scar signature that some see and some donÂt.
"It tends to be a medium large cherry size about 3/4 to 7/8 of an inch diameter and it has a small hole where the blossom end scar should be." [Fusion, 6/25/07]

"The one I grew apparently has the larger size cherry tomatoes (about an inch and a half) and a very bland flavor. Also, the calyx is extremely large for a cherry, more suitable for a large beefsteak, actually, and it is attached VERY firmly at all stages of ripeness, so that you can't just twist it off." [Doof, 6/25/07] (Note: No one else mentions this tough calyx connection. Has anyone else noticed this unusual characteristic for a cherry tomato?)

"I haven't gotten smaller ones as mentioned above, usually the fruit is about an inch and a half on the pink ones and the ivory are somewhat ovalish, not a complete oval like a grape but definitely not totally round." [Albertar, 6/25/07]

"From what has been posted above, perhaps these are the larger ones, being one and an eighth to one and a quarter inch in size and there is no little hole in the blossom end." [GonefishinÂ, 7/14,07]

"That's correct Bill, saved seed from small fruited ones can give plants with small or larger cherries and it's been that way since I received the seeds from Robert Martin, who also named it Dr. Carolyn Pink. I can't tell you how many times I've saved from the small fruited ones trying to get a pure line of small fruited ones, but so far no go." [Carolyn, 7/14/07]

"The size was a bit smaller than Eva Purple Ball, a little lighter in color." [Doof, 7/14/07]

"I received a Dr C from Darrel and it has 1 to 1.8 inch pink fruit Â" [Bill R., 7/14/07]

"As noted above, there is some variation in the fruit produced from these tomatoes. I am convinced that they are still segregating. I looked back at some photos from last year and realized I described it above as 3/4 to 7/8 inch diameter but my photos are of a fruit closer to 1 inch or just a tad more. The original Dr. Carolyn Pink was distinctly low in sweetness and had relatively strong tomato flavor similar to Galina." [Fusion, 7/15/07] (Note: Fusion says the one he now grows has complex flavor "with a bit more sugar content than average.")

"Sounds like I have the large DCP. Large fruit for a cherry type, even a couple that had a sort of mini beefsteak appearance and were close to 2" across (most were not, these odd ones almost looked like fused/doubles)." [Suze, 7/15/07] (note: Suze includes a picture of her Dr. Carolyn Pink in which only one of seven tomatoes exhibits anything resembling a "pinhole blossom end scar.")

So, I guess "subtleties" is a bad choice of wording on my part. Maybe I shouldÂve said the obvious instability exhibited by size variance and the remaining mystery as to whatÂs up with those other color lines.

But then I guess the Dr. Carolyn in ivory is stable with regard to color and size? If so, that's an interesting contrast to the Dr. Carolyn Pink.

Bill

All that aside, aren't these pretty little tomatoes ? And they really do taste good, at least to me, they do.
Bill P.

What year did Galinas come into the U.S. from Russia and when did High Altitude Gardens first start selling them? Was there ever any notice given by them or anyone else back then as to instability?

Bill

What year did Galinas come into the U.S. from Russia and when did High Altitude Gardens first start selling them? Was there ever any notice given by them or anyone else back then as to instability?

*****

All I can remember was that it was the early 90's and Craig and I bought every single new variety he introduced and split the packs.

I know I never reported back to him any instability b'c I had no idea what was going on, and quite frankly it never occurred to me to do so since what I got from the original seeds was true to the variety. It was only from saved seeds that this whole issue started. And others that I knew were growing it, other than Steve Draper, apparently had no problems. And I never saw a comment about instability from those who listed Galina's Yellow in the SSE Yearbooks.

I think it might be best if you want to know the exact dates, etc., that you contact Bill McDorman at Seeds Trust, aka High Altitude Gardens.

Carolyn

Carolyn,

Okay ... the reason I asked the date of introduction is because a friend in New Mexico called this afternoon and told me he received a pack of Galina's seed (labelled with the apostrophe) from Steve Draper in 1988, and has gotten nothing but yellow Galinas ever since. Lucky draw of the cards I guess. Well ... that's the good news.

Bad news is when I got home this afternoon, I picked about 15 little Galinas jewels, brought them inside and sliced them in half for salad garnish, and low and behold ... they had red blushed centers just like miniture Juane Flammees! But my seeds came from Detroit.

Thanks for the info on High Altitude Gardens ... I'll drop them an email if they have that contact information online.

Bill

I'm pretty sure they were brought over in 1987 and introduced in 1988. Some people grew them in 1987. I remember reading about them and about Sasha's Altai in Organic Gardening. 1989 was the last year I subscribed.

I traded for seed several years ago and have never gotten anything except bright yellow/gold cherry tomatoes with very good flavor.

Fusion

Have you ever kept telling yourself, I'll plant them next year and finally do plant after 3-4 years and end up kicking yourself for waiting so long because the tomato was so great? Well, this year I finally planted Dr. Carolyn and in the taste department it beats the other cherries I'm growing by a long shot; Green Grape, Black Cherry, Galina's Yellow, Peruvian Bush, Mexico Midget. Not sure it's distinctive to my garden but it has a discernible lemon taste. Will be growing Dr. CP next year.