Many people have saved seeds from F1 Sungold fruits, called the F2 seeds, and sowed them the next year.

Results are varied, some getting yellow fruits, some getting orange fruits and some getting red fruits, and the latter b'c in the parentage are genes for the long truss trait that come from a red variety.

And few have the taste of Sungold F1 despite claims made.

Reinhard Kraft in Germany has been working to get an OP variety that's close to the hybrid and has released 3 different selections.

Mule, who pasts here has one called Sun Lucky b'c it's a cross between Sungold F1 and Lucky Cross,and last I knew he was tryin gto make selections from plants that had the distinctive scent of the Sungold F1 foliage b/c apparently that scent and the Sungold taste genes are closely linked.

Keith, can you update us on that?

Carolyn

I did it once,and got away with it. To me,they looked and tasted the same.
I pretty much stick with black Cherry for cherry tomatoes anymore. They aren't as sweet as Sungold,but darn good tomatoes. And they aren't hybrid. Not bashing Sungold. Just pushing Black Cherry

Fred

I have tried Sungold seeds, multiple times, and gotten them out several generations. I agree with everything Carolyn said. Often yellow or orange, sometimes red, always cherry sized, never quite have the flavor of Sungold, and often seem 'softer' besides. It's hard to describe. I;m not saying it can't be done, but I'm still waiting for something as good. Either from my own, or someone else.

If I want real Sungolds, and they are still one of my favorites, I either just buy a plant or two from the nursery, or, more often, I grow my own from seed packets from the typical suppliers I use, such as tomatogrowers.com (and others). A packet doesn't cost that much and lasts many years for me.

I wonder how do they(hybridizers) collect their seeds, that are sure that it is what they say it is?

How is that their seeds do not take after one of the parents , but I grow seeds from their tomato might look like its maternal grandfather?

Another thing : There has to be a point that a HYBRID is stabilized and becomes Heirloom ? Isn't that what Mortgage lifter is?

I think, when you plant seeds taken from a hybrid tomato grown in your garden, it will be a decent tomato. The reason is, they pick the best tomatoes around to hybridize not some trash. What can happen is that the result might be slightly off in size, shape and color. Actually you might get a SURPRISE. I like that one. .

Lots of answers from me about how hybrids are constructed with two beeding lines and more, but no time now. Yes, some are constructed with just two OP parents, theearliestones such as Ramapo F1 and someothers aregood examples, that is true, but not most popular commercial hybrids such as Sungold and others.

No, Mortgage Lifter is not a hybrid.

Knowing about the two breeding lines, when constructing a hybrid is very important to know about and I'll be back later to discuss it in more detail.

Also knowing about male steriles is important as well.

Carolyn

I wonder how do they(hybridizers) collect their seeds, that are sure that it is what they say it is?

Google is your friend. For example -

PowerPoint - Hybrid Tomato Seed Production

Text: Hybrid Seed Production in Tomatoes and Peppers

You can also explore the Hybridizing forum here.

Dave

Dave, I read through each of your links and wanted to share some points that were not made in either one and that has to do with how hybrids are constructed.

The earliest hybrids developed usually had just two parents that were selected for different desired traits .Examples would include Big Boy F1, Better Boy F1, Ramapo F1, etc.

But more modern varieties are done in a different way.

There are two breeding lines, let's call them A and B. An OP with a desired trait starts off in line A, these are NOT specific varieties, rather what are called breeding lines that have been chosen b'c they have desired genes. Then that first one is crossed with another OP to introduce a gene, such as uniform ripening, high solids, a disease tolerance gene, etc.

There can be up to four parental gene inputs in a line and none of them are known varieties.

The same is done for line B.

When the last of lines A and B are done, then those two last selections are crossed with each other to form the F1 hybrid.

One of thel inks also discussed the role of using male steriles so that there's no self pollenization.

Carolyn, who did say she would be back later, and the reason being is that she's a HUGE tennis fan and Wimbledon in London is on now, and she wants to watch as much as she can, especially her favorite players. ( smile)

Dave, I read through each of your links and wanted to share some points that were not made in either one and that has to do with how hybrids are constructed.

The earliest hybrids developed usually had just two parents that were selected for different desired traits .Examples would include Big Boy F1, Better Boy F1, Ramapo F1, etc.

But more modern varieties are done in a different way.

There are two breeding lines, let's call them A and B. An OP with a desired trait starts off in line A, these are NOT specific varieties, rather what are called breeding lines that have been chosen b'c they have desired genes. Then that first one is crossed with another OP to introduce a gene, such as uniform ripening, high solids, a disease tolerance gene, etc.

There can be up to four parental gene inputs in a line and none of them are known varieties.

The same is done for line B.

When the last of lines A and B are done, then those two last selections are crossed with each other to form the F1 hybrid.

One of thel inks also discussed the role of using male steriles so that there's no self pollenization.

Carolyn, who did say she would be back later, and the reason being is that she's a HUGE tennis fan and Wimbledon in London is on now, and she wants to watch as much as she can, especially her favorite players. ( smile)

Dave, I read through each of your links and wanted to share some points that were not made in either one and that has to do with how hybrids are constructed.

The earliest hybrids developed usually had just two parents that were selected for different desired traits .Examples would include Big Boy F1, Better Boy F1, Ramapo F1, etc.

But more modern varieties are done in a different way.

There are two breeding lines, let's call them A and B. An OP with a desired trait starts off in line A, these are NOT specific varieties, rather what are called breeding lines that have been chosen b'c they have desired genes. Then that first one is crossed with another OP to introduce a gene, such as uniform ripening, high solids, a disease tolerance gene, etc.

There can be up to four parental gene inputs in a line and none of them are known varieties.

The same is done for line B.

When the last of lines A and B are done, then those two last selections are crossed with each other to form the F1 hybrid.

One of thel inks also discussed the role of using male steriles so that there's no self pollenization.

Carolyn, who did say she would be back later, and the reason being is that she's a HUGE tennis fan and Wimbledon in London is on now, and she wants to watch as much as she can, especially her favorite players. ( smile)

Yeah I know all about you and Wimbledon. So was trying to save you some time to watch. 3 copies should cover it well. :-)

Didn't intend them to be all encompassing info on hybridizing but they cover the basics that was asked for.

Dave