TIA,
Westy

http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/tomato/

I have largely un-amended clay soil. Right now, my guess is if that you don't incorporate manure or organic matter into the clay, it packs together when it dries out and makes the plant more susceptible to ber, even if you water regularly. Romas seem to be the worst about getting ber. I don't have it on any of my other tomatoes.

ber is a very complex chain of events of things going wrong for the plant. It's something about calcium uptake, but that is caused by irregular water. You can alternate in Calcium Nitrate with your fertilizer. Epsom salt probably wouldn't hurt, as mg is needed to absorb the ca. But the core issue is moisture.

The tricky part is that you want tomatoes to put down deep roots, so infrequent but deep watering does that. I just don't think romas can take that treatment. Next year, I am going to try a lot of manure. I might put them on their own more frequent watering schedule as well.

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IMO the core issue isn't just water, it's ANY of the many stresses that can occur and I'm going to cut and paste a post I've done here several times.

Mg++ is not needed for Ca++ uptake so I can't see Epsom Salts ( Mg sulphate) being a help.

Westy, what you describe as black in the flesh is called internal BER. Sometimes there can be no evidence of BER on the exterior, yet the flesh will have black areas. Same problem, lack of Ca++/

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(With BER there is NO problem with absorption of Ca++ though the roots. The problem is maldistribution within the plant that can be induced by a number of stresses which include uneven delivery of water, too much N, growing in too rich soil, too hot, too cold, too wet, too dry you name it.

As the plants mature they can better handle the streses that can induce BER so usually it goes away.

The two exceptions are first, if the soil has NO Ca++ as confirmed with a soil test, and that's a rare condition, and second, if the soil is too acidic in which Case Ca++ is bound in the soil.

Again, adding lime, egg shells and on and on can not and will not prevent BER b'c absorption of Ca++ thru the roots is OK.

Paste tomatoes are especially susceptible to BER and I think someone in a post above mentioned that.

If you go to the top of this first page and click on the FAQ link and scroll down you'll also find an article about BER in case some of you have never looked at the FAQ's And there's some darn good articles there as well, but I wouldn't pay any attention to the variety list b'c it's way out of date.

The old information about BER being caused solely by lack of soil Ca++ has been shown to be wrong with research that's been done in the last 20 years or so, but it's going to take another generation before the real story gets into books, websites, magazines, etc. Most of the better websites already have the correct information.

BER affects not only tomatoes, but peppers, squash, cabbage, cauliflower, etc., and it's a huge multimillion dollar problem for the industry, which is WHY all that research was done. For instance, when tissues were taken from a plant that has BER fruits and was assayed for Ca++, the normal level of Ca++ was found, it just wasn't getting to the blossom end of fruits. And there's also a condition called internal BER where the fruits look fine, no evidence of BER externally, but when you cut open the fruit the inside is black

Hope that helps

The following was posted by Betsy as a comment on the above post:

So, what it comes down too is: Tums do not work, nor do egg shells, milk, and other "home remedy" treatments. Foliar spray only works in some cases. Time and good management practices work best.

Carolyn

Carolyn

Please don't mis-interpret the info provided. IF water is the cause of the stress - and don't ignore the other possible causes - then it isn't a question of too much or too little water in the soil. The issue is inconsistent water levels in the soil. Inconsistent is the key word, or as Carolyn said, "uneven".

Plants which are exposed to wet then dry then wet then dry soil moisture will become stressed and will mal-distribute that water and nutrients, including the Ca, thorough the fruit.

So if you think the water is the cause of your BER simply cutting back and water and letting them dry out as you intend will not fix the problem. It will only make it worse. Instead you need to come up with a way to stabilize that moisture level. Methods for doing that include heavily mulching the plants, soaker hose or drip irrigation systems, less frequent but much deeper watering, as well as eliminating any of the other causes of stress - testing and adjusting the pH, reduce N fertilization, doing no or only selective pruning, erecting shade, etc. etc.

Dave

http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/T0234E/T0234E06.htm

5.4 MAGNESIUM PROBLEMS

Soils containing high levels of exchangeable magnesium are often thought to be troubled with soil infiltration problems. The role of magnesium in causing or partly causing these problems is not well documented but researchers from several irrigated areas have studied the problem. At present there is reasonably good agreement that magnesium acts on soils in a way which is more like calcium than sodium, and that it is preferentially adsorbed by the soil to a much greater degree than sodium but to a slightly less degree than calcium.

In a magnesium dominated water (ratio of Ca/Mg < 1) or a magnesium soil (soil-water ratio of Ca/Mg < 1), the potential effect of sodium may be slightly increased. In other words, a given SAR value will show slightly more damage if the Ca/Mg ratio is less than 1. The lower the ratio, the more damaging is the SAR. Research findings show that at a given SAR of the applied water, a higher soil ESP than normal will result when using a water with a Ca/Mg ratio less than 1 (Rahman and Rowell 1979).

One concern, however, is that productivity is sometimes reported to be low on high magnesium soils or on soils being irrigated with high magnesium water even though infiltration problems may not be evident. The effect may be due to a magnesium-induced calcium deficiency caused by high levels of exchangeable magnesium in the soil. Some research evidence shows that yields of crops such as barley, wheat, maize and sugarbeets are reduced when the Ca/Mg ratio in soil-water is less than one. The function of calcium in plants is not totally understood, but calcium appears to reduce possible toxicities due to other ions (Na, Mg) in the root environment. If the Ca/Mg ratio is near or less than 1, the uptake and translocation of Ca from soil-water to the above-ground parts of the growing crop is diminished due to antagonistic effects of high magnesium or competition for absorption sites to such an extent that less calcium is absorbed. A calcium deficiency may then be experienced at a higher calcium concentration in the applied water or in soil-water than would occur if the Ca/Mg ratio were higher. Although not definitely confirmed, it can be anticipated that irrigation water with a similar ratio (Ca/Mg < 1) will produce a similar effect if a readily available source of calcium is not present in the soil.

Other limited research indicates that the ratio of calcium to total cations in the soil-water may also be critical. A calcium to total cation ratio of 0.10 � 0.15 or greater has been mentioned as needed for optimum root growth of barley and cotton.

There are insufficient data to make either the Ca/Mg ratio or the calcium to total cation ratio an evaluation factor when judging the suitability of a water for irrigation, but if an irrigation water is being used that has a Ca/Mg ratio less than one, or a calcium to total cation ratio less than 0.15, a further evaluation is needed. Although no conclusive recommendations can be made, such water may pose a potential problem related to plant nutrition and an evaluation may be needed to determine if a readily available source of soluble calcium exists in the soil or whether further studies are needed to determine if calcium should be added as a fertilizer or soil amendment.

Additional references include: Paliwal and Gandhi (1976); Koenigs and Brinkman (1964); Howard and Adams (1965); Simpson et al. (1979); Carter and Webster (1979); Ulrich and Mostafa (1976); Fong and Ulrich (1970).,

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Thanks for the article but I see no mention of BER anywhere in that article and many of the references noted were before all the work on BER was undertaken b'c it's such an important issue to the Tomato Industry as a whole and of course we backyard gardeners as well.

Barley, wheat and maize were mentioned but the physiology of water and nutrient transport into and within plants of different crops is different and no mention of tomatoes at all.

But I do appreciate the effort you made to find that article.

If only there were a quick fix for BER, but there isn't since it's not Ca++ alone that induces it. Sigh/

Carolyn

http://www.clemson.edu/extension/hgic/hot_topics/2009/08blossom_end_ro t.html

"Avoid excessive potassium or magnesium fertilization as these nutrients will compete with calcium for uptake by the plants."

http://ucanr.org/sites/placernevadasmallfarms/files/86509.pdf

"A calcium deficiency in the fruit may also result from other factors. Excess nitrogen stimulates vegetative growth, increasing the leaf area and thus the amount of transpiration from leaves. Potassium (K), magnesium (Mg) and ammonium-nitrogen (NH4-N) all compete with calcium for uptake into the plant, so high concentrations of those nutrients may reduce the amount of calcium available in the fruit."

But this year the temp has been over 100F for over a week, with a high of 108F. I may have over-watered somewhat. Too soon to worry. Thank you, mother nature, for cherry tomatoes.

Westy

I water one time per week on average unless it's really hot out and when I do I water for a long time. At least an hour for my 450 SF garden. If I can manage I do an hour and a half. My plants seem to all be doing pretty well and they are all mulshed well with grass clippings and shredded leaves. So what is uneven water if not what I am doing? Watering only once every two weeks? Or is it more a symptom of the soil drying out way to fast? I don't undestand.

CH

If you want to grow some nice ber, lose the mulch and squirt the plants every day just enough to wet the top of the soil. Then when you come back the next day, the ground will have baked into a solid brick. ber loves moisture fluctuation.

The mulch, combined with a deep watering, is what keeps your soil moisture regular enough to avoid ber.

It is easier to understand if you think "consistent" rather than INconsistent. Consistent soil moisture levels is the goal. And unless you want to use a timed, auto, drip irrigation system then the easiest way to accomplish it is with less frequent DEEP watering. Deeply wet soil is slow to dry out. Water flows down and out and then is drawn back up and diffuses throughout the soil. Think about how a self-watering container works, how it wicks up water, to get the picture.

But for best results you first have to know your particular soil and how it works. How much clay does it have, how much organic matter, how much sand, how long does it retain water, and how quickly it dries out. With a bit of soil studying you can plot out a specific watering pattern that will keep your soil consistently moist rather than wet or dry. Then it only has to be minutely adjusted for the weather.

Unfortunately that is more work than most home gardeners want to put into understanding the process.

Dave

I think your other problem might be sun scald. I have it myself, and I have read a lot of people complaining about the same problem, due to our intensely hot summer. The yellow tops will never turn red; just cut that part off. The rest is fine to eat.