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Just how safe is Roundup?

Posted by lubadub 5B PA (My Page) on
Sun, Jun 13, 10 at 22:48

I know a lot of people use Roundup to kill weeds in and around their garden, even when they have plants actively growing. There are recommendations about avoiding spraying Roundup on a windy day etc. Lets say it is a windless day. How far away from your tomato plants are you willing to use Roundup? And, are you rubbing it on your weeds or actually spraying it? I am very hesitant to use it anywhere near my plants but I know one person who is carefully spraying it on beginning small weeds close to the ground within a foot of his plants. Anyone out there with solid recommendations based on experience?
Marv


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

JMO, but I wouldn't spray that close, not just because of drift, but it could be spread to other plants on shoes, clothing, etc. I would only use it on a particular weed that I couldn't manually remove, and then I would probably paint it carefully on said weed.
If this person is in fact being careful and is used to using Roundup this way, it probably won't be a problem, as he knows what to expect.


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

This is a question I wonder about too. I have used it close to plants in the past with good results, but it scares me now.
I think that the thing to worry about is "splatter" when spraying . I once used a paint roller with it. Don't think it is near as bad as 24D. Now with 24D, you need to worry about vapor drift and that is real nasty. Never use it,24D, on a hot day--ask me how I know.


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

On some spray bottles there is a foam setting so it is easy to do spot applications very close to the plants. I have also used the larger spray setting to do the border line on the outside of raised beds etc. I have used it quite a bit close to plants, and have trouble with it not killing what I am spraying (grass= yes, burdock, wild carrot, poison ivy, =no) so I am tempted to actually splash a little on a volunteer tomato plant just to see what will happen.


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

I would never use roundup anywhere near plants that I plan to harvest produce from. I happen to be growing most of my stuff this year in a community garden, and I have plenty of space for growing but one of my "neighbors" came by when I wasn't there (my dad was there tending his garden) and she sprayed roundup along the path bordering my garden. And guess what? I pulled a few shriveled radishes the next day and found dead weeds 3 feet into my squash patch. So I put up friendly signs requesting NO roundup or other herbicides near the vegetable gardens.

Oh and on top of that, Roundup comes from the company Monsanto (just google Monsanto and Percy Schmeiser) Not trying to start another heated discussion here!

So since I don't and won't ever use roundup around my garden, I use either a hoe or my bare hands to pull up the weeds. It's really not that hard, just takes a little extra effort down on your hands and knees. And there's no worrying about damaging your good plants or contaminating your produce.


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

Lets say it is a windless day. How far away from your tomato plants are you willing to use Roundup?

6 inches. I make sure the sprayer is putting out a "coarse wetting spray", not a mist. And I cover the plants I don't want to kill with a paper bag or box until after I am done.

But, my main weapon against weeds is a really thick layer of mulch and hand-pulling.


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

Dont do it. You MAY end your season before it began. I did it this spring and was careful and lost a few and damaged a few. Tomatoes are insanely sensitive to roundup.

I have gotten lucky a couple times doing it, its the time when your luck runs out that sucks.


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

I use a stream rather than a spray and a gentle stream at that. That way the drops don't bounce as much. I can get fairly close to my plants that way without hitting them. My main weed is grass and it is hard to get out by pulling so I use the roundup so I only have to kill it once.


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

Once I start the garden in the early spring I don't spray any herbicides on my property for fear of drift. If I have weeds I just smother them with mulch. my preferred mulch is grass clippings; since it's free except for the extra work of bagging.


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

Personally I would never buy Round Up or any other herbicide. I just don't get it honestly. But, I think it's therapeutic to pull weeds for hours. :)

My tomatoes have been dying off fast and I see my neighbor spraying Round Up all the time. I'm not sure if it has killed any of my plants, but I have had leaf curl consistent with herbicide damage and it really irks me that all my time, love and money could be cut short because my neighbor doesn't want a >gasp< stray weed on her property and is too lazy to pull it by hand.


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

Monsanto. As Catman said, Google 'em.
Then decide if you want to support 'em.


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

Thanks to all who responded to this post. I feel a bit more secure now in what I will be doing. I have an area not really near to my garden but close enough. I will not be spraying anything with 2,4 D anywhere even remotely near my garden due to big time concerns about drift. I will though use some Roundup very carefully on an area near my garden which is nearly impossible to weed out as some of the weeds are grass. I will be doing this to prevent production of weed seeds which I believe have been getting into my garden from this site. I will be using a "stream" of spray rather than a mist and will be right next to the ground. Also I will be looking for a sprayer that is able to make a foam rather than a spray but I have been unable to find one of these sprayers so far. I will also let you know if I have a disaster.
Marv


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?


Quote:
***Thanks to all who responded to this post. I feel a bit more secure now in what I will be doing. I have an area not really near to my garden but close enough. I will not be spraying anything with 2,4 D anywhere even remotely near my garden due to big time concerns about drift. I will though use some Roundup very carefully on an area near my garden which is nearly impossible to weed out as some of the weeds are grass. I will be doing this to prevent production of weed seeds which I believe have been getting into my garden from this site. I will be using a "stream" of spray rather than a mist and will be right next to the ground. Also I will be looking for a sprayer that is able to make a foam rather than a spray but I have been unable to find one of these sprayers so far. I will also let you know if I have a disaster. ***
I feel the same way. My neibour sprayed some dandy lions about ten days ago. 50 feet away and he is a very careful person. I see a little damage on the top of the closest tomato plant. Yet I sprayed roundup around the outside of my green house with no problems. I will do some more on the odd corners of my yard.
As a retired farmer, I don't think people would like the price of food if it were not for spray. But we better not go there. Like every thing in this world, including sex, it has to be used with common sense.


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

Marv, I use a 2 gallon roundup sprayer and I remove the tip, cut the bottom off a 2 liter or 24oz bottle (depends on how narrow a path you need), insert the bottle cap-end first over the nozzle end, reassemble the wand's spray tip, and slide the bottle down over the tip after you adjust the pattern you want. Then just duct tape the bottle at the right height.

You can then "spot weed" with roundup. The bottom end of the bottle pretty much can seal to the ground on weeds under a foot tall. (about 6-8 inches with the 24oz bottle.) Just be sure there's no rain in the forcast for a few days if you are spraying really close to plants--I believe I lost some young onion plants once when it rained the next day and rewetted the roundup on the soil.

Of course, depending what plants are nearby or intermingled, you may even consider SANDEA instead!

Hope this helps.


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

Ever think of just pulling the weeds by hand?


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

* Posted by boothc9 5 (My Page) on
Tue, Jun 15, 10 at 11:02

"Ever think of just pulling the weeds by hand?"

My walker doesn't let me reach the ground, but you are welcome to come over and bring your friends any time you wish.


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

Korney's idea is great! That will go into my book of tricks.

Another tool for spot treatment is a "walking cane" of 3/4 or 1-inch diameter PVC tubing with a sponge taped and tied securely across one end and the other end fitted with a cork stopper. Fill the tube about 3/4 full of Roundup solution and dab the target plants with the sponge end of the wand.

To avoid Monsanto, if that is your intent, simply buy one of many non-Monsanto brands of glyphosate-based herbicides now that the patent has expired. They are on the shelves everywhere. Some work less quickly than Roundup and some work just the same. Depends on the various formulations and surfactants employed.

Personally, I've experienced far more drift problems from 2,4-D based products and the most insidious herbicide currently is aminopyralid, sold as Milestone and Forefront. U.S. EPA should ban this stuff: Milestone

Oh, and for all you Monsanto haters, aminopyralid is from Dow Chemical, the company that brought you napalm and Agent Orange.


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

Tried to avoid getting in on the Monsanto hating (honestly, I cannot believe anything that kills a weed or a pest can be good for humans either) but just for the record, Monsanto themselves admit they are one of the seven Agent Orange manufacturers per the govt's instructions.

Carry on.


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

Marv, I knew from the get go that this thread would turn political which is why I didn't post. ( smile)

Carolyn, who prefers to see folks respond to the question asked in terms of positives and negatives about the question asked, not who makes it, or other comments not related to the question itself.


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

I sit on my butt and pull weeds by hand, I stand up and use a hoe or walk behind a rotary tiller, or I am on my knees with one of those small garden tillers - those three pronged thingies that allow me to stir the soil.

Why would anyone in their right mind even consider spraying Round-Up around garden plants?

Mike


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

No tiller, severe pain when getting down on hands and knees. Fencelines, rocky walkways and tight edges of raised beds that make use of a hoe etc nearly impossible. Deep rooted weeds that do not pull up and regrow from tap root fragments left behind. Poison ivy.


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

Look, I'm a farmer's son, and roundup is the most used chemical in agriculture. as colokid said, if it weren't for roundup, the price of food would be abosolutely massive. It is the most effective way to kill weeds in a large paddock (or field, whatever) It says "don't spray on windy days" because it really is referring to the implications of drift. beware of roundup power max though, that stuff is the nasty stuff. We use roundup with an active of glyphosate @ 4.5mg/l. (18mg/gal, I'm aussie what can i say). Any higher than that is getting on ridiculous. Keep in mind that much deadlier stuff is put on grain before it is harvested. (paraquat on lentils for instance). If using roundup near something that you will harvest, I would wash it first, but it is fairly safe to eat.

Roundup really doesn't kill marshmallow though. It basically drinks it. 2,4-D or oxyfan are much better for killing that weed. Ally (or metsulfuron as it is called nowdays) is much better to kill weeds in the future. (it attacks the roots)

I wouldn't drink roundup though. The dog tried that this morning, and she vomited and her feces have been green for the day. she's looking better now.

Just a note: roundup is basically: water, salt, some surfectant with the toxicity of soap, and the glyphosate. Altogether these are basically harmless, so I would not worry.

also, tillage may make some weed seeds germinate, and it dries out the soil.


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

I won't use it anywhere near my vegetable beds. The heavier the mulch, the less weeds. The ones that do surface I hand pull. For older folks I recommend a "Winged Weeder" type hoe with a long handle because they work great. I actually like to hand pull. You get right down there personal with your plants and can see if any insect or disease stuff is starting. Weed pulling is therapeutic for me. I lose the world in my weeds...;-)

I will spray Round Up on really obnoxious viney type weeds that have roots to Hades. Thankfully they are back by the trees and in ornamental beds and haven't spread to my vegetable beds.....yet!


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

The easiest thing I've found is what is referred to as a Hula, Scuffle or Stirrup weeding hoe. A few minutes every 7-10 days keeps weeds out and soil loose and aerated.
I've learned my lesson with herbicides around veggie plants.
Korney's and hoosiercherokee's ideas are good though. I might consider using one of those ideas around ornamentals.


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

I admit I use Roundup, but only for Bermudagrass.

You people who say "just pull the weeds" I am assuming are lucking enough to not have extremely invasive weeds on your property, yes? If so, good for you!

Have you ever tried to pull Bermudagrass? Pulling on it, the tops just break off and leave the roots and rhizomes and stolons in tact. I do dig mine up sometimes too, but sometimes it's in a position where I can't really dig it up properly without damaging other plants or structures around it. And it can grow back from any tiny little bit of root left behind.

I do feel bad about using Roundup on it because of Monstanto, etc. It's hard to decide what is more evil, Roundup or Bermudagrass. A good conspiracy theory would be that Monsanto encourages the planting of Bermudagrass just so that us poor veggie gardeners have to use their product to kill the damn stuff. But I would never subscribe to such crazy conspiracy theories. ;-)


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

"You people who say "just pull the weeds" I am assuming are lucking enough to not have extremely invasive weeds on your property, yes? If so, good for you!"

There is a way to keep weeds down, including bermuda grass, nutsedge, wild raspberries, sumac, ivy of all kinds, etc. (all of which are weeds I have to deal with)... If starting with a new bed, lay down newspaper or paper mulch in layers (they sell it at garden centers in some cases now), then layer straw, hay, or leaves & grass to about 4 inches thick at least. Just about nothing comes through. As time goes on, the mulch will break down, add more to keep at least 4 inches... no weeds, no chemicals. If weeds appear near the edge of your garden - that's what weed-whackers are for. Sometimes weeds will sprout in the mulch, which is rare, but in these cases, pulling them is like pulling a toothpick out of pudding.

This obviously isn't practical for larger scale commercial farms, but for a home garden it's easy and beneficial in a number of ways.

If you don't want to do all that, and you don't want to mulch (for whatever reason) just run landscape fabric or weed-block (garden weed barrier made of plastic) and make cut-outs for your plantings.

A little prep goes a long way.


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

You don't have to buy Roundup. There are others out there to buy just read the label. Look for "Glyphosate" The brand buy I get at Tractor Supply. On sale for 39.99 for 2 1/2 gallons. Reg. price 69.99 By Pronto Called "BIG N'TUF" This is concentrate like roundup but stronger. You have to mix it with water also. It has 41% Glyphosate in it. Only takes 3 oz per gallon of water. It's much stronger than roundup at only 14% or 17% Glyphosate from walmart at 17.00 for only 32 oz. And you have to mix 6 oz. per gallon with roundup to make it work. This Pronto BIG N' TUF is some good stuff for the money. Monsanto is ripping us off on roundup. Just check at your farm store or tractor supply store. 2 1/2 gallons is a lot but at 39.00 to 69.00 it's worth the savings. Get your friends or family to split it with you if you don't use that much.


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

When the electric utility was trimming trees in our area, I asked for the chips. Bermuda can come up through two feet of mulch. It sends long runners under cardboard. I use Glyphosate (Wal-Mart Eliminator) for Bermuda, Johnson Grass and that morning glory relative that has the huge root underground. I pull or mulch for all other weeds.


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

About as safe as plutonium. Why anyone would even consider such a thing is mindboggling.

FROM THE ASSOCIATED PRESS (6-7-11)

Industry regulators have known for years that Roundup, the world's best-selling herbicide produced by U.S. company Monsanto, causes birth defects, according to a new report released Tuesday.

The report, "Roundup and birth defects: Is the public being kept in the dark?" found regulators knew as long ago as 1980 that glyphosate, the chemical on which Roundup is based, can cause birth defects in laboratory animals.

But despite such warnings, and although the European Commission has known that glyphosate causes malformations since at least 2002, the information was not made public.

Instead regulators misled the public about glyphosate's safety, according to the report, and as recently as last year, the German Federal Office for Consumer Protection and Food Safety, the German government body dealing with the glyphosate review, told the European Commission that there was no evidence glyphosate causes birth defects.

The report comes months after researchers found that genetically-modified crops used in conjunction Roundup contain a pathogen that may cause animal miscarriages. After observing the newly discovered organism back in February, Don Huber, an emeritus professor at Purdue University, wrote an open letter to Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack requesting a moratorium on deregulating crops genetically altered to be immune to Roundup, which are commonly called Roundup Ready crops.

In the letter, Huber also commented on the herbicide itself, saying: "It is well-documented that glyphosate promotes soil pathogens and is already implicated with the increase of more than 40 plant diseases; it dismantles plant defenses by chelating vital nutrients; and it reduces the bioavailability of nutrients in feed, which in turn can cause animal disorders."

Although glyphosate was originally due to be reviewed in 2012, the Commission decided late last year not to bring the review forward, instead delaying it until 2015. The chemical will not be reviewed under more stringent, up-to-date standards until 2030.

"Our examination of the evidence leads us to the conclusion that the current approval of glyphosate and Roundup is deeply flawed and unreliable," wrote the report authors in their conclusion. "What is more, we have learned from experts familiar with pesticide assessments and approvals that the case of glyphosate is not unusual.

"They say that the approvals of numerous pesticides rest on data and risk assessments that are just as scientifically flawed, if not more so," the authors added. "This is all the more reason why the Commission must urgently review glyphosate and other pesticides according to the most rigorous and up-to-date standards."

Here is a link that might be useful: RoundupandBirthDefects


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

Stay away from that stuff - it is straight from Satan himself. Every year a neighbor sprays his driveway cracks with that stuff and it "drifts" over the fence and does damage to my tomato plants, and to my other neighbors hydrangea etc. The "path" it takes varies from year to year but there is always the telltale damage of weird deformed leaves. Has never outright killed a plant on me, but it makes me sick to have to put up with that. BAD PRODUCT.


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

raisemybed, roundup damage doesn't do that. What you describe is 2,4-D damage. Roundup, depending on dose, tends to yellow the new growth. If it does curl first it dies soon after (heavier dosage). I know because I have purposely sprayed plants with varying doses to see the effect.

2,4-D can drift from any neighbor applying to lawn weeds. Depending on it's formulation and temps, damage may not show for (2 days to 2 weeks).

Here is a link that might be useful: Good pictures of the difference between 2,4-D and roundup damage


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

  • Posted by tomakers SE MA Zone 5/6 or % (My Page) on
    Fri, Jun 10, 11 at 7:40

Personally, I won't allow it around the garden, but if you must, you should use the proper tools to minimize the amount of Round Up used, overspray, etc.. AND BE CAREFUL.
It is used in our commercial operation, but I still hate the stuff.

hoosiercherokee said "Another tool for spot treatment is a "walking cane" of 3/4 or 1-inch diameter PVC tubing with a sponge taped and tied securely across one end and the other end fitted with a cork stopper. Fill the tube about 3/4 full of Roundup solution and dab the target plants with the sponge end of the wand."
There is a product made(can't think of the name), commonly known as a "hockey stick" exactly for this purpose. It won't leak, and applies a small amount to whatever is touched. I'm pretty sure there is a "dabber" of some kind available also.

I really prefer my hands or the scuffle hoe. My bride insists it's a "hula hoe", but that is just one product, and there are many scuffle hoes made.

JMO,
Tom


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

There is NOTHING that stops bermuda grass. Not mulch and certainly not landscape fabric. Maybe it doesn't grow that well in Pennsylvania (it's a warm weather grass). I have bermuda growing 2 feet under a cement walkway and invading a flower bed. I've dug it up each fall and it comes back each spring. So now it gets either round up or grass be gone (which takes longer, but is better to get rid of grass and not harm other plants nearby). You do have to be careful with RU. If enough gets in the soil, it can transfer to the roots of nearby plants.


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RE: Just how safe is Roundup?

I'm considering using either roundup or brush-b gone on some sumac trees and their offspring. My husband let them get out of control before we were married and now I'm fighting a losing battle. Plus, the neighbor has a huge sumac tree hanging over my fence near the garden.


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