Check the Rutgers University website. They were the ones who did this. I bought the seeds from them in Feb.

I'm growing 2 Ramapos (out of 20 total plants) in my garden. It's an F1 hybrid. As I understand it, you take variety #1 and you take variety #2 and you cross pollinate. The offspring of this cross is the SEEDS, not the tomato. So, as I understand it, the tomatoes resulting from that first match are not Ramapo, but SEEDS inside those tomatoes from that first cross will grow Ramapos.

Here is a link that might be useful: F1 Hybrid

gaetanol
thank you for your response. I'm trying to understand the process of reviving Ramapo.
So if I got some seeds labelled "Ramapo" those seeds would only produce one generation of Ramapo tomatoes, right? The tomatoes from THOSE seeds would not be true Ramapo F1 they would be F2.

I assume the real parentage of Ramapo is secret and that to actually revive the strain the patent-holder would grow whatever parents needed to pollinate and create the Ramapo F1 seeds.

Conclusion: getting "Ramapo "seeds" will only produce one generation of Ramapo tomatoes. The seed manufacturer would have to continue their work to assure getting seeds in the future.

Thanks again. I think I understand.

There is an op Ramapo out there. I know a few who are growing both it and the F1 to compare this summer. I'm growing the F1 this year and then if I like it will try the stabilized version next year. How they stabilize is grow a number in the F2,F3 and select seeds from those closest to Ramapo. And in time they will stabilize. I believe Carolyn may of starting working with Ramapo several years ago but then I've slept since then. JD

I have the OP Ramapo--an F6 line. If anyone wants some please see my trade page for info on how to recieve these in a SASE.

There were several things wrong in that NYTimes article which someone sent me yesterday.

Ramapo F1 was NOT revived. Rutgers has been maintaining it for years b'c of course they have the two parents and can make the hybrid any time they want to.

If you ever looked at the Rutgers sponsored taste testing data you'll see that Ramapo F1 has been a control for many years after commercial seed sales ceased.

What happened is that only Harris Seeds and TGS were offering it and it was decided to stop F1 seed production, which was contracted out, and not done by Rutgers.

I was one who dehybridized it to an OP version and that version, according to feedback, is quite good. I know some folks are now on the F5 and F6 and it's doing very well.

I had been in contact with two Profs at Rutgers and got F1 seed from them maybe 6 years ago so I could monitor the selections I made from the F2 and F3 growouts.

But folks were clamoring for the F1. You know how it goes,,,when something is hard to get or impossible to get then it becomes more desirable. LOL

So they subcontracted out for seed production in Israel and have been selling the seed, by application, for I think about $4/pack.

I'd like to see it made available to Harris Seeds and TGS again, but I don't know if that will happen since Rutgers is making money for themselves now rather than seed being sold commercially elsewhere.

So F1 Ramapo never went away and so it was never revived. Just journalistic license in that article. ( smile)

Carolyn

Interesting and what that article didn't say but more or less implied was that the reason it was so great was that it was grown in NJ, picked ripe and sold more or less locally (NY & NJ).
I remember driving back roads near Camden, NJ and seeing fields of tomatoes with cluster of full baskets of ripe tomatoes at the end of the rows, waiting to be picked up and bound either for the Campbell soup plant or city markets. Naturally it was a stand-out when contrasted with somethig picked green and shipped 3,000 miles.

Apropos of the NY Times article, I was surprised at how dismissive Jack Rabin of Rutgers was of Heirloom tomatoes calling them, "horticultural garbage," and "water bags."

Thems fighting words.

I realize that not all heirlooms are winners but there are a lot of hybrid bits of "horticultural garbage" as well. -In my opinion very shippable and durable horticultural garbage that tastes like nothing.

"It never dawned on myself or my colleagues that this issue (flavor) would resonate with so many people," said Rabin.

WHA?! *Jackbenny hits head on desk in disbelief* ...repeatedly.

I honestly don't know how to respond to such a quote. Sometimes scientists become so involved in solving one problem; perishability, yield, etc., that they totally lose sight of what in my opinion should be the one thing you should never ignore: taste.

Of course oldroser has a good point. You could breed the perfect tasting tomato, but if you pick it while it was as green as a Granny Smith, ship it 3,000 miles from Peru, gas the hell out of it to make it pretty and red, it would still taste like a wet rice cake.

I still have faith though. The American consumer is beginning to learn from areas such as the Food Network that not every tomato has to be bred red and round, and that things called Heirloom tomatoes exist, and they're even better when you get them locally.

"I was surprised at how dismissive Jack Rabin of Rutgers was of Heirloom tomatoes calling them, 'horticultural garbage,' and 'water bags.'"

What would you expect from a person who uses such improper and egocentric English cliches as: "It never dawned on myself or my colleagues that this issue (flavor) would resonate with so many people."

Hahahahahahaha. "It never would have dawned on myself and ..." What a dork!

Besides, what are the two parents of Ramapo? What are your bets both of them are vintage commercial varieties?

Bill

Besides, what are the two parents of Ramapo? What are your bets both of them are vintage commercial varieties?

*****

You're 50% right Bill. LOL

Again, I've been amazed at the PR that Rutgers has been engaged in for Ramapo F1, as in over the top in my opinion.

And this Rabin fellow is no one I ever dealt with at Rutgers when I was interacting with them re Ramapo F1. There were and are two retired profs who separheaded the whole effort. I could look up their names in my old e-mails if I had to, but I thoroughly enjoyed talking with the one b'c not only was he originally from and initially employed in NYS and we knew some of the same folks, but he also got his Ph.D at Rutgers and was a student of Dr. Oved Schifriss who was the person who bred the first popular tomato hybrid, Big Boy, but also the first F1 cuke and the first F1 melon when he was at Burpee.

And having interacted with Oved and knowing him pretty well, it was interesting hearing more about him. Oved went to Glenn Drowns place ( Sandhill Preservation) in IA for one summer to work with some of his squash germplasm and he was staying in a motel in town and was lonely, his wife having passed on recently, and he'd call me several times a week to chat.

I knew him initially from tracking down the parents of Big Boy.

To be truthful it was hard understanding him b'c of his strong accent but the scientific aspect that he was talking about escaped me as well.

There was a concerted effort to get Oved to get his valuable germplasm into the USDA b'c it was sitting mouldering in his basement back in NJ but he refused initially. Finally, close to when he passed on the USDA did accept some of it. They had initially said they had no facilities to maintain any more than they had and so had refused the efforts of others to get into the USDA.

He had refused to leave it to Rutgers and he almost left it to Cornell, but, well, now I'm just going on here with past history. Sigh.

Carolyn

Carolyn

Posted by naplesgardener: I assume the real parentage of Ramapo is secret...
Posted by hoosiercherokee: Besides, what are the two parents of Ramapo? What are your bets both of them are vintage commercial varieties?

I got my Ramapo seeds from the son-in-law of Dr. Bernard Pollack, who developed the the variety at Rutgers. He's probably the anonymous "retired plant genetecist" mentioned in the Times article. Here's Bernie's reply to my question about the parents of the Ramapo:

"...No secret. Ramapo is the result of a cross of KCA x Abbie. KCA is a breeding line I got from a plant breeder working for the Campbell Soup Co. in NJ and Abbie (named after my daughter) from a breeding line I received from a plant breeder friend in North Dakota. This line was still segregating so I made selections from it and purified the type I was interested in. Takes about 7 years of inbreeding..."

So, there it is.

Grew these seeds this summer, they did wonderful in the drought, far better then others did. Figures they were grown here in NJ.

Even though this is an old thread I wonder if there is a picture of Ramapo tomato to be looked at. I have heard of it but never seen it. What are the special characteristics of this variety. I grow heirloom tomatoes and would not eat anything else. Thanks!

Even though this is an old thread I wonder if there is a picture of Ramapo tomato to be looked at. I have heard of it but never seen it. What are the special characteristics of this variety. I grow heirloom tomatoes and would not eat anything else. Thanks!

****

Ramapo F1 isn't an herloom variety. ( smile)

As to what the special traits might be there's another thread on this same front page, down lower, and I've linked to it below.

I don't know where a picture of Ramapo F1 might be found, but if you picture Druzba, or Bulgarian #7 or Break O Day, all having pretty much round red fruits in the 8-10 oz range, you'll have an idea of what it looks like.

Carolyn

Here is a link that might be useful: Link to other Ramapo thread

Yugo,

Here are some pictures of Ramapo from seeds that Ed (Barkeater) sent me from Vermont. He got his seeds from Carolyn as F3s that she said replicated the F1 hybrid Ramapo. He sent me F4 seeds. These pictures should be labelled F4 rather than F5. Otherwise, they should be representative of Ramapo, as I understand it.

The following picture is from a second F4 plant, but later in the season, which is why they are a bit smaller fruit. Same otherwise. All these tomatoes were grown in 2006, before the new Ramapo F1 seeds became available for the 2008 growing season.

I think there is a picture at a Rutgers Univ. Website of the new F1 Ramapo tomato grown from seed produced for Rutgers in Israel. Maybe someone can guide you to that picture.

Bill

I tried to link to a photo of the Ramapo F1 but the site is up to date with the journal release (no scanner right now).

It looks VERY much like an Early Girl in the picture shown from the article.

After I posted the question, it suddenly occurred to me, I could look it up myself, which I did. I was curious about this tomato since I've heard about it many times and could never get a clear picture what makes it interesting. Thanks for all your replies.