Hi Bruce, I'm no expert. Couple of questions. When do you start germination? You should be able to get decent sized plants if you allow enough time from germination to transplanting seedlings, 6-8 weeks.
We have a short season here too, but for different reasons, as we can get a freeze without warning. I would say that all the conditions you mentioned would probably not be conducive to growing tomatoes.
Regarding cooking the soil mixture, personally I would start fresh with grow bags or something like that. Lots of green foliage and few flowers could mean a few things, one being too much nitrogen. The humidity I would guess would also play a role in the plant blossoming.
Like I said, just my opinion. I used a combination Pro-Mix, hemlock mulch, perlite mix as I couldn't find the pine bar fines for Al's 5 1-1 mix, following his instructions for fertilizing. Other than the fact that our weather has been up and down my plants have done really well. I grow in containers, this year using 15 and 20 gallon grow bags. I highly recommend them. I also used Serenade to help control for disease.
Sharon

I would try adding a mineralizer like azomite and also do some compost tea treatments every couple of weeks. This should grow you some healthy, productive plants.

Hi Sharon --

Thanks so much for your comments! I don't have a great system for germinating seeds, and am not able to get them the light they need to not get "leggy." The times I tried a few years ago, in 8-12 weeks before moving to the tubs, they were tall, long internode length, and wispy. The plants from big box stores are stouter and chunkier, and grow much better for me without the constant hovering...carrying trays in and outside based upon temperature, sunshine, etc.

I thought the humidity was only a factor in pollination, not in flower formation?

I just can't afford to replace all that sterile mix! I can't remember what I spent before, but with ~120 gallons of material, it was a lot! I will watch the fert next year, although I don't think what I gave the plants was excessive. Maybe a couple quarts of Miracle Gro @ 2 tablespoons per gallon, and three Jobe's spikes per plant. That would've been in the last week of March/beginning of April...nothing after that.

The thing about grow bags is that you can't easily set them up off the ground. I have my tubs on bricks so that they can drain quickly and easily. Seems like we either are dry to the bone, or have too much water to deal with!

I was just reading about Serenade today. I also have some other fungicide products for my fruit trees...I'll check the labels.

Thanks again so much for your thoughts!

-Bruce

Bruce, I understand about costs. But you will have to amend about half of each container with some new mixture. I think manure might be high in nitrogen but again not sure. I use MG, but a diluted mixture because you have to fertilize more frequently with containers but a weaker solution, which may be another reason you're not getting much production.
For germination, there are some very reasonably priced compact flourescent grow lights which you need for seedlings.
We had a very hot, humid but little rain summer last year and it took the plants forever to either blossom or set fruit. They go into survival mode and shut down if its too hot and too humid. At least that was my experience. Good luck!

"...with a manure/peat/perlite mix. Drip irrigation, and I use both Miracle Gro and Jobe's spikes the first 3-4 weeks or so. I grow only Big Beef (one per tub), and plant in March after the danger of frost is past. Plants quickly grow to 6-7 feet, but with few blooms."

You are correct about the humidity affecting pollen and not a tomato plants bloom output. Your manure/peat/perlite mix and fertilizer combination is most likely the reason for few blossoms, since Sharonie is correct about the nitrogen causing a lack of flowers. You don't specify what kind of manure you are using, and hopefully it is wel composted before you start using it, but manures can vary widely in their NPK content: Fertilizer Percent composition
N
P2O5 K2O
Cow manure
0.5-2.0
0.2-0.9
0.5-1.5
Horse manure
0.5-2.5
0.3-2.5
0.5-3.0
Sheep manure
1.0-4.0
1.0-2.5
1.0-3.0
Rabbit manure, dry
2.3
1.4
0.8
Poultry manure
1.1-6.0
0.5-4.0
0.5-3.0
Hog manure
0.3-0.5
0.2-0.4
0.4-0.5

You don't say which Miracle Gro and Jobe's spikes you are using, but I am making the (possibly unwarranted) assumption that they are the "Tomato" formulas: The Miracle Gro is listed as 18-18-21 and Jobe's comes in at 6-18-6. Either of them is probably OK, but both of them in combination with your manure based growing medium may account for the rapid growth with few blooms. You are feeding them alot early in the process and then nothing for the rest of the season.

Plants that are grown in any kind of container will need feeding more often than plants that are grown in the ground because each time they are watered, the water run off carries away vital nutrients. Many container growers will use a dilute solution of a liquid fertilizer as often as every week depending on the condition of the plant.

Lastly, you might want to ask this question over in the Florida Gardening Forum or over in the Container Gardening Forum

Betsy

Edited to make table more readable.

This post was edited by bets on Tue, Jul 30, 13 at 21:09

B is correct about feeding. I feed several days a week (fertigation) with low doses of fert. N is not to be too high. Much of what you feed goes right out the bottom.

Thank you all for your helpful comments. Yes, the MG and Jobe's are tomato formulas, in the stated balances. I suspect that the P is low, but there isn't a good way to boost that given what's available to me. The manure is cow manure, and my mix is six seasons old. I turn the tubs every season, and I don't think I'm losing a lot of nutrients out the bottom. Each season I carefully scrape the sides, and make sure the bottom gets flipped onto the top. I think I'm catching quite a bit of potential loss that way.

I've only been getting what I would describe as "run through" the past four weeks, with all the heavy rain...perhaps leaching the top layers into the bottom, and some out the drainage holes. But earlier in the season the moisture levels are maintained at the "perfect" level, and I'm irrigating instead of depending upon rain.

Thanks greenthumbzdude for your suggestion about the minerals. That was actually my thought behind the chicken manure. Chicken feed is augmented with a lot of minerals, and I was thinking I could perhaps boost some things instead of N that way. I would be afraid of trying your compost tea, however, because of all the soil pathogens around here. I try to keep the mix in the tubs as sterile as possible.

I know you all are perhaps thinking that I'm using old mix, and that's behind my problems. But my yield has been the same even when the mix was new, so, I'm pretty confident that the mix is basically sound -- I'm just missing a "key ingredient."

I have concerns about doing a "weekly, weakly" regimen, because that way I'm giving the plants a constant dose of N. Might there be another alternative to boosting P and K? I don't want to overfertilize these puppies -- I know in some places in this country people are growing tomatoes successfully in not much more than dust and rocks.

I do a lot of container growing, with tropicals and fruit trees. I can't imagine why tomatoes are giving me issues, when I'm having so much success with fruiting trees, and blossoming tropicals.

At least I'm getting some tomatoes, but it's hardly worth the effort and expense!

Thanks again, everyone! I appreciate it!

-Bruce

As B, myself and fire duck mentioned, weekly weak solutions are really crucial to container growing for tomatoes. They are heavy feeders, so giving them a jolt in the first few weeks and then stopping isn't providing them with a continuous supply of nutrients, because the fertilizers wash out quickly. If you go to the container forum like B mentioned, you will see the recommended ratios. Al (tapla) explains it very well. In the end it's really about the amount of fertilizer to water ratio. I would check it out.

in addition....very few people re-use organic/peat based potting mix more than 1-2 seasons. There are several reasons why (disease remaining, breakdown of material resulting in fine/poor draining mix, etc). Inorganic mixes is a different story.

Thank you Sharon and fireduck. I will check out the container forum.

-Bruce

"I suspect that the P is low..."

Not in the first part of the season, since both the MG and the Jobe's are 18 for P. I don't know for sure how to figure the fertilizer balance you have available for your plants since you are using both at the same time. Normally the numbers are a percentage of total weight. In other words, if you have 100 pounds of fertilizer that is rated 18-18-21, it would be 18 lbs of Nitrogen, 18 lbs of Phosphorus, and 21 pounds of Potassium. So if you mixed 100 pounds of 18-18-21 and 100 pounds of 6-18-6, you would have 200 pounds of 12-18-13.5, but you aren't really mixing them.

Would it be additive, giving your tomatoes 24-36-27? I don't know about that, but I do think you are over fertilizing your plants early in the season. The MG says it feeds for 2 weeks and the Jobe's for 8 weeks, so after roughly two months, there are no further nutrients from them, and I suspect that there wouldn't be any left from the container mix either, since as fireduck says, it does break down.

So,it has been proven time and time again that initial overfeeding leads to lush green growth and no blooms. For your tomato plants, subsequent lack of NPK doesn't support flowering and they're just hanging in there on the initial growth. Does every one's tomatoes die out in July? If other's tomatoes are still going, it may be your lack of late season fertilizer that causes yours not to be able to withstand the heat and humidity of July. (Here in southern Idaho, we had 20 days of 95+ temps in July, with six of them over 100, and all of the tomato plants I've seen are still growing and flowering, and many are setting some fruit in spite of the heat.)

My recommendation (bear in mind I do VERY little container growing): replace your growing medium, cut back on initial fertilizers, and feed a dilute water soluble solution once your initial fertilizers are waning in strength and usability.

You have seven plants, try what we have suggested with a couple of them. If we are right, those two will out produce the other five combined. If not, you'll still probably get the dozen or so apiece from all of them.

What do you have to lose?

Betsy

Thanks, Betsy. What I meant by saying the P is low, is as an absolute value, not relative. My thoughts behind using both the MG and Jobe's (not at exactly the same time, BTW), was that the Jobe's would be more of a slow-release formula. I used the MG the first couple of weeks, then pushed in the spikes about 3 weeks later. I don't like using MG with such a high N, because as a relative value, IMO it's overbalanced. But it's the best way to supplement what might be a weak mix.

Our season is so short, that I just don't think either a) the plants absorb all the fertilizer available in the tub in a few weeks, or, b) that it gets washed out the bottom. The heavy rains have only occurred in July, where there would have been excess water to drip out the drainage holes. Otherwise, I irrigate as necessary to maintain proper soil dampness.

All other tomato folks I've communicated with here in the panhandle experience the same plant die-off in July, in addition to lack of flowers and pollination. I've read here on this forum many, many posts from others with similar daytime highs, and continuing to have success. The difference, however, is humidity and nighttime lows. I remember one GW member in Sacramento chiding everyone else because she could continue to grow and harvest tomatoes through the summer in 100+ temps. What she failed to recognize is that her nighttime lows were in the 50s. I haven't checked your monthly weather history, but I suspect the same range is in effect.

I read the long post on the container forum about mixes. I will continue ahead with my plans to augment with pine bark, as I mentioned in my OP. One thing I've noticed as each season progresses is that there is soil compaction going on...from the light fluffy mix at the beginning of each season, losing a couple of inches of depth by the time summer arrives. The soil is still loose/crumbly and not dense, but perhaps there's some lack of available oxygen.

What wasn't clear from the container/mix thread was if I should compost the pine bark first. I think for trees and woody plants, an uncomposted pine bark would be great. Not sure for tomatoes, though...

Thanks again so much for your valuable input!

-Bruce

BTW, I forgot to add to this thread that three of my plants were Big Beef Mighty 'Matos. Don't believe the hype -- especially with my short season, these plants were slow to catch up with my seedlings, I noticed no exceptional vigor with higher temps, and the yield was actually lower with the MM plants vs. the seedlings.

Live and learn!

About MANURES:
If you buy pre packed manure of any kind from nurseries, those are mostly compost with SOME manure , not much.
Unless you go to a farm/stable and load from their compost pile. That's real manure.

Bruce the pine bark fines have to be broken down into a size that allows for good drainage. That is also explained with photos on the container forum. You would be surprised at how well tomatoes will grow in the container mix with the proper amendments.

Well, now I'm looking forward again to next season, armed with amended mix! Almost ready to give up this year, but I'll give it another shot. Thanks Sharon and seysonn.

There is a brand of pine bark mulch available here at Lowe's and HD that seems to be the correct size, and tends to be flat "flakes" rather than "chunks."

-Bruce

That's the stuff. You'll get it for next year. Don't give up! There are lots of people with great knowledge who re willing to help.

Sharon