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Neem or serenade

Posted by lisound (My Page) on
Mon, Jul 22, 13 at 16:31

posted this in the pest forum but thought some of you might have a few thoughts as well.
Started spraying neem as prevention for fungus, just switched to serenade. Thinking of keeping up with the neem too. but them have to by sprayed about 5 days apart.
Staying organic...will switch to copper when the serenade runs out. should be around middle of august.

thoughts?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Neem or serenade

  • Posted by robeb Kansas City area (My Page) on
    Mon, Jul 22, 13 at 22:28

You asked. The following is only my opinion...

For fungus protection Daconil is hands down the way to go.

Neem oil will slow down whiteflies etc; never seemed to do anything against fungal problems on my plants.

Liquid copper is a waste of money.

Trying to stay organic is noble but synthetic Daconil is actually less toxic than some of the "organic" preventitives and it works.


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RE: Neem or serenade

Not what you want to hear I know, but Rob is right. If fungus diseases is a real chronic problem for you then IME the so-called organic fungicides just don't cut it. And yes, I have tried them all.

On the other hand if organic is an absolute MUST for you then go with alternating sulfur and copper. But drop the Neem. Both sulfur and copper warn against mixing with any oil based spray ("do not use if oil applied within 1 month as it can be phytotoxic") to avoid killing the plant.

Dave


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RE: Neem or serenade

i guess it looks like I'll be using the "keep your fingers crossed" method since i've recently sprayed the neem. Serenade recommends waiting 7-10 days after the neem was sprayed.
We'll see. This is all just preventative at the moment.


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RE: Neem or serenade

diaconil does work the best,
if you want to go organic mulching helps so that less dirt splashes up on the leaves which causes leaf spot diseases.


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RE: Neem or serenade

Yes, mulching does help with splashback infection when in a previous year or years, the two most important fungal foliage pathogens fall to the ground and those two are Early Blight, S. alternari, and Septoria Leaf Spot/.

But ALL NEW infections are transmitted by wind and embedded in raindrops and are not prevented via mulch and are usually the most predominant types of infections.

I also suggest Daconil as the best preventive.

Carolyn


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RE: Neem or serenade

I read up on Daconil. It sounds like nasty stuff. Not sure I'd want my 2 year old eating it. I'd wash the fruit of course, but still.


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RE: Neem or serenade

I don't know where you've done your research on Daconil, for it is not nasty stuff.

Yes, it's synthetic, but has less toxicity than does Rotenone which is approved by almost all organic certifying agencies i know of.

Daconi lis THE most widely used anti-fungal in the world and that means that a lot is known about it. And I do suggest it without reservation.

I don't care if products are synthetic OR organic,what I'm concerned with is toxicity to humans, pets, fish, etc.,and the impact on the environment in general..

Carolyn


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RE: Neem or serenade

I'd wash the fruit of course, but still.

It isn't as if the fruit soaks up the Daconil. And it is the leaves that are supposed to be sprayed anyway. Even the leaves don't absorb it. It coats the leaves and washes off with rain. So assuming you'd want to wash all the fungus spores off the fruit then you'd be washing all the Daconil off too.

Since its primary hazards listed on its MSDS is possible eye and skin irritation I'd suggest some more research before drawing a conclusion, perhaps from some slightly more objective sources.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: Daconil MSDS report


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RE: Neem or serenade

i did read the MSDS and that's what concerned me.

Section 11 �" Toxicological Information
and carcinogens.
Maybe I misread some of the info on the spec sheet.
Do you wear protective clothing when you spray?

Not being confrontational, just asking?
This is my first year spraying... Had blight real bad last year and don't want to loose the crop again this year.


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RE: Neem or serenade

Blight is a general word. Do you known the specific kind of blight your plants had? It matters whether its a bacterial blight or a fungal one as to what products you might chose.

It also depends on whether the infection is a systemic one or a foliage one and I've been assuming the latter for your plants.

Long Island has also been a target spot for Late Blight (P. infestans), which is different from Early Blight ( S alternari) and LB is not a foliage disease, is far more lethal and Daconil is the best home gardeners have to help protect plants from that.

And no,.none of my tomato friends feel the need to use protective clothing when spraying Daconil and I dont either.You could use goggles if you feltt the need to.

The purpose of an MSDS sheet is to list all that's known about a product whether major or minor.

You might want to checkout Daconil at Extoxnet also if you still have hesitations,

Carolyn


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RE: Neem or serenade

No I don't wear protective clothing, just my normal jeans, shirt and shoes. But I note the wind direction so it isn't blowing on me and try to spray on non-windy days so the mist isn't blown around all over.

Please note in Toxicological Section that these studies were done with 97% pure Chlorothalonil not the 29% in the available sprays and were done on rats and rabbits and dogs. Even after a full year of exposure at that high strength and regular doses the negative effects are low and inconsistent.

No evidence of adverse developmental effects in rabbit and rat studies. Except for the minor skin and/or eye irritation mentioned above.

It's your choice of course but perspective is important. Daconil has a much lower toxicity rating than most any other garden/lawn chemical available. And even organic sprays such as sulfur and copper have potential side effects too.

Dave


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RE: Neem or serenade

Enough water will kill you, A few years ago in a water drinking contest a young lady died, though she did win the contest! So maybe those afraid of Daconil should also withhold water from their plants in fear of absorbing too much when eating the fruits, and the fruits do take the water up systemically, unlike Daconi, no doubt you do consume the water you spray on edible plants. Be careful!! Also don't forget your protective gear!.


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