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This is so depressing!!

Posted by michael723 6 (My Page) on
Thu, Jul 10, 14 at 19:38

So, I went on vacation and came home to bacterial spot working it's way up the majority of my heirlooms (1/4-1/3 of the way by now) .. I'm working with Copia, Blue beauty, Cassady's folly, Genovese, Sweet Carneros, San Marzano, Yellow Brandywine, Porkchop, Orange banana, black krim and a few others that I can't place at the moment.. Most of them are about 5-6' in height with a few lagging behind.. I think it's a little too late for a lot of them but I'll still give it a valiant effort.. I've begun the tedious process of removing every infected leaf I could find .. It really sucks (for lack of a better term, sorry) having to chop up what you've put so much effort into nourishing.. Perhaps I'm venting just as much as I'm looking for suggestions, sorry lol...

I've sprayed a copper fungicide and am waiting to hear back on where to purchase Agriphage .. Not to keen on destroying my soil biology/beneficial insects etc ... Anyone know of a distributor?

I was planning on planting my hairy vetch cover crop in late august but I'm a little apprehensive as I don't want to provide a home for overwintering .. Suggestions? Any advice will be greatly appreciated .. Thanks in advance
Grow on ladies and gentlemen ... =)

This post was edited by michael723 on Sun, Jul 13, 14 at 0:50


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: This is so depressing!!

..another


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RE: This is so depressing!!

..Another


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RE: This is so depressing!!

And something a little nicer to see...


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RE: This is so depressing!!

Is it really that bad if you leave it as it is? Mine are the same. Tomato plants are gorgeous, except septoria recently. I hard it's not that bad, although I am a first year gardener.


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RE: This is so depressing!! Help appreciated

Aaron,
Yes you want to remove leaves as soon as possible to slow progression of the bacteria...

Side note: I'm thinking that I misdiagnosed and that I'm actually dealing with septoria, as no fruit has been effected.. Or perhaps it's a little too early to tell? Thanks


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RE: This is so depressing!!

I was wondering if this is Septoria too, then you won't get far with bactericide? Would love to hear about experience with Agriphage.


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RE: This is so depressing!!

Hey Linda,

Yea it looks like Agriphage is out of the question as it isn't applicable, but it definitely is an interesting product! I'll have to stick with a fungicide (something besides copper!). I was thinking of going with a bio fungicide like Serenade.. Anyone have any experience with it?

Here is a link that might be useful: Serenade optimum


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hmm, I do not know if Serenade and Serenade Optimum is the same, but I do use Serenade as well as Actinovate. I add Excel LG to Actinovate to improve plant systemic immune response


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RE: This is so depressing!!

It looks like a fungal disease, to me. Maybe EB ?

At any rate I would spray with some kind of fungicide. I use Daconil (not organic) but I also have Neem Oil (organic). I have already sprayed my plants couple of times and I will do again in a few days. Prevention is better than fighting diseases. Me thinks.

BTW: I would remove any and all the affected leaves as well as any thing almost touching the soil and turning yellow. Those are mostly lower leaf branches.


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RE: This is so depressing!!

Yea Serenade optimum is different than Serenade garden.. Optimum contains a patented strain of subtilis and it acts as both a bactericide and a fungicide.. Can't beat that right!? The only problem is that I can't find anywhere to purchase it just yet.. I'm gonna give them all a careful dose of copper today and hope for the best until I could source the optimum ..

This post was edited by michael723 on Sat, Jul 12, 14 at 8:40


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RE: This is so depressing!!

Yea I agree seysonn, prevention is key to everything in life I find lol.. Nah it's not Early blight as they aren't displaying concentric rings or "targets" of necrotic tissue but rather gray centers - septoria. I've removed 50% of the infected leaves, I should be able to finish the rest of them today.. But as of right now I must first grab a cup of coffee, pull up a chair under the bamboo, and finish reading "Botany for Gardeners." Excellent read I might add!

This post was edited by michael723 on Sun, Jul 13, 14 at 9:25


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RE: This is so depressing!!

BTW what is the variety pic is, very nice looking one


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RE: This is so depressing!!

That's a Blue Beauty from baker creek heirlooms.. This is the first time I've worked with the variety and I can't wait to taste one!! It'll be one of my regulars if the flavor rivals their beauty when ripe.. Check out the link

They were slow starters but then they took right off...
Most of my crop this year was from baker creek and they were all a 100% germ rate.. I find the blues to be a bit of a leggy and "thin" variety but the fruit is just - pretty, to put it simply lol.. I'm just praying that they're tasty because I'd love to play with them some more.. I'll take some cuttings and have fun with them this winter in the house.. Maybe do a few in soil and a few in deep water culture - compare the flavor, growth rates etc..

Here is a link that might be useful: Blue beauty


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Here's a few more of the blue...


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...another


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And here's a before and after of defoliating today:

Before


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After


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I used Baker Creek in the past with excellent germination rates as well. Will sure look into Blue Beauty.


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I'm sure you won't be disappointed . . Casady's folly (bakers creek) is the first plant from the right and is setting some heavy fruit.. They're already about 7' tall (a determinate!) and climbing.. I was initially worried about it because it was verrry "weepy" from the get go but I've come to see that it's just the strain.. Another "pretty" variety - but again, lets see how they taste! lol

Here is a link that might be useful: Casady's folly


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RE: This is so depressing!!

I grow heirlooms as a hobby and have 18 planted this year. In looking at the before and after pics of your garden my plants look much like your after pic. I have a clearance of at least 12" from the ground to prevent rain water splash up. IMO I think your after pic is a healthier way to have your plants. Anyway...I hope in spite of issues with Septoria that you do have a successful season. Next year I'm going to attempt grafting to get the best of both worlds.


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I am growing Russian Queen this year, which is somewhat similar to Cassady's Folly, looks like will be very prolific variety as well as Blush and Maglia Rose.
From Blue ones I am growing another Tom Wagner Helsin Junction Blue and Black Shadow from Lee Goodwin. Both of them cherries are though and I really like beefy shape of Blue Beauty.


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Joe..
Yea I usually only prune up enough to keep any leaves from touching the soil - 3 nodes or so.. This year the problem was just the intense amount of rain we've gotten (and are STILL getting) in CT.. I'm gonna go all mulch next year and probably ditch the black plastic that I've used for ages.. I tried it with that no till row in the foreground and I'm liking it...

I try to prune leaves/branches as little as possible apart from the occasional lateral shoot that I just don't
like lol (to improve air circulation), and/or leaves that are heavily shaded 24/7... I find that leaf density affects fruit flavor .. When leaves are stripped sugar factories (in essence) are destroyed - less flavor IME.. Thanks so much for the warm wishes..!

Linda,
Ya know I haven't grown cherries in a while, I have to do some next year!
How do you like those two? Yea the bb's are plumping up nice!

Mike

This post was edited by michael723 on Tue, Jul 15, 14 at 13:10


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Thanks Mike for your follow up reply. I've never read anywhere that pruning affects the taste. I'd have to do some side by side comparisons. Of course, I have such limited in ground space to begin with it would be hard for me to run that study.. Also, since taste is so subjective to begin with I'm more inclined to prune for the benefit of air circulation. I like the concept though. Have a good one. LOL...During Tom season I don't go on vacation. My wife can't understand this LOL but I put soo much effort into my hobby I need to be with my plants while they are alive! !


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Hey Joe,

Here's a little info relating leaves to flavor:

"Foliage. A lot of leaves can capture a lot of sunlight, so a plant with dense, healthy foliage can convert more sunlight into sugars and other flavorful components. Heirloom varieties have a greater percentage of leaf than do market-ready hybrids, which may partially explain their flavorful. Do all you can to keep leaves healthy."

This is from Bonnie's website, they don't cite their sources (which I don't like), but...

Lets keep in mind that genetics play the MAIN role in flavor, but there ARE other contributing factors involved ..

I too hate to leave the tomatoes and save the vacation time for the fall.... Usually! lol

Here is a link that might be useful: tomato flavor

This post was edited by michael723 on Thu, Jul 17, 14 at 20:48


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What about all those skinny heart varieties which barely have any wispy leaves but have phenomenal flavor... also not all cherries are sweet, and some of them downright sour...
on a whole I do agree about leaves and stuff but it must be far more complicated than that.
Also soil high in clay might have higher amount of nutrients but it is also one that has poorest release of those said nutrients to the plant so plant in clay soil in reality does not receive much at all...


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Hey Linda,

That's why I closed with saying that genetics play the main role in flavor, physiology etc.. But as I said, there are other variables that come in to play (on a smaller scale) - be it overwatering, over-pruning over-fertilizing etc...

Clay dominated soil is a whole nother issue lol.. Yes it has a high CEC but the minuscule size of the particles (0.004 mm or less hydrous silicate compounds) leads to anaerobic conditions.. This is why we shoot for loam.. Nearly equal parts sand, silt and clay.. All about balance this life, all about balance lol =)

Edit: Pick up the book "Teaming with Microbes" it has great info on soil chemistry/structure, bacteria/fungi etc.. I'm in the middle of it now.. I'm going to follow it up with "Teaming with Nutrients"

Here is a link that might be useful: Teaming with Microbes

This post was edited by michael723 on Thu, Jul 17, 14 at 19:15


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ha ha, am reading Teaming with microbes now. Good stuff!
How did you find Teaming with nutrients- I heard it is pretty heavy read...


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Haha great minds think alike! Excellent read, right?! I'm midway myself..
Teaming with Nutrients is on Amazon! They have soooo many excellent books.. You'd probably benefit from "Compost Tea Making" as well - with your current endeavors.. I just got it and am cheating in between the "Teamings" lol..

"Compost Tea Making" - (copy and paste)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1452822972/ref=mp_s_a_1_sc_1?qid=1405646337&sr=8-1-spell&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70

I just discovered that Casady's Folly is a wispy leafed variety.. Is that what you were referring to as "skinny heart?" I'll tell ya, although the leaves are smaller than average, they're sooo numerous that the surface area is surely comparable.. Of course there are so many wonderfully different varieties so perhaps you had a particular one in mind...?

Here is a link that might be useful: Teaming with nutes


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