Ortho Garden Disease Control
OrthoMAX Garden Disease Control
Ortho Daconil 2787
Bonide Fung-Onil
Dragon Daconil

or any other brand that contains chlorothalonil? I believe most are 29.6% chlorothalonil, though Dragon may be less.

A friend just said he used 1.5 TABLEspoons per gallon! He bought OrthoMAX Garden Disease Control. The Gulfstream brand, "Daconil", says 1TBS/gallon. I think the Orto products are 1TBS or less. I also believe the older Ortos were 1TBS but they changed the rate recently with the "MAX" label.

Thanks.

Ortho MAX Garden Disease Control concentrate (29.6% chlorothalonil):

"For Tomato: 2.5 teaspoons per gallon water; start spraying when conditions favor disease; apply every 7 days to maintain control"

Hope this helps!

The Gulfstream brand is 29.6% and 1 TBS/gal.

As for my buddy, he used 2 ts too much per gallon.

I will look for an older bottle of the Ortho if nobody posts it, I thought it was 1TBS/gal but could be wrong. Maybe the Weatherstik works too good...

Pandorae

I was lucky to even get that one locally, got the last bottle, b'c Agway was out of the Ortho Garden Disease Control I've used in the past and called their distribution center in PA about the Ortho and they were out as well but expected a new shipment in shortly.

I can't get out there to personally survey my tomatoes b'c of the walker, but I have Freda, who does all my gardening for me, checking all the time. So far, just some too much rain problems with the German Red Strawberry, but in general, the other plants are all new varieties, new to all or most, so fingers crossed and I sure wouldn't want to lose them.

Glad to see you posting here and there this past week, and please send me an e-mail when you have time and catch me up to date as to what's happening on the home front.

Carolyn

Why would you want to spray this on your tomatoes when there are perfectly effective, non-toxic methods to treat blight?

A copper based fungicide like Kocide should be used in rotation.

Serenade is also another choice.

Mulio, wondering what the consequences of more people spraying more chlorothalonil than usual will be to the environment.

It seems to me that people who think there are no alternatives to poisoning yourself, your children and the world, simply haven't done any research.

Also many people think people who don't want to use poison are pushing some agenda or ideology. In fact, people use non-toxics cuz they work. If they didn't work no one would use them.

Since you say chloro. isn't working [you do know about resistance] - even more reason to seek out alternatives.

And a combination of poisons?! Great! There is NO research on the consequences of combining toxic products, but the effects increase exponentially.

Some organic suggestions from:
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/organic/msg0709001831272.html

milk
baking soda and water,
- a product called "Serenade" is suppposed to help with all types of
conditions,including Early and Late Blight, I have seen it for sale at
( Forgive me) Wal Mart, iam not sure where else it would be available.
it is a pre mixed spray, that is supposed to be safe to use right up
to harvest. It is available mail order from several on line retailer
as well. here is the link to the "Serenade" site. www.agraquest.com
- also note that tomato blight likes plants that are wet or in high
humidity conditions, and it's a soil borne problem that gets splashed
up on the plants - DO NOT water the plant, water the soil, and keep
the bottom leaves cut off so there's good air circulation under the
plants
- Some people have success controlling tomato diseases with cornmeal
or cornmeal tea. A gardenweb or google search will come up with some
interesting info.

I am curious to know exactly what YOU are using for LATE Blight in NJ, please tell us...

I also noticed you wrote, "...a product called 'Serenade' is

supposed to

What exactly did you mean by "supposed to?" Is that a yes or a maybe? or not sure?

I think the problem you got yourself into is you came across as lecturing people for the means they use to prevent/control problems that are common to many and if not effectively prevented/treated kill their plants.

You yourself have stated you don't have the problem many area dealing with so you really can't claim to *know* from experience if there is a more effective, but less toxic product available.

While I am not fan of pesticides/fungicides on the stuff I grow for my family to eat I have had various fungal problems on certain types of plants and I have done my research on the prevention/control measures available for each and every one I have encountered. Often there is a highly effective organic/low toxicity solution.

In the case of tomato foliage diseases though while there may be lower toxicity solutions that *might* work in some cases, pretty much every source I have ever seen that makes recommendations for tomato diseases puts chlorothalonil at the top of the list of what actually works with some reliability.

I am sure most would love a solution with lower potential toxicity, but many also need some assurance it will actually work as reliably as chlorothalonil.

I don't know of anything. Apparently you don't either. In such a case I would suggest not lecturing or appearing to be lecturing.

There are now many alerts at the various message sites where I post from Cornell, Rutgers, the disease folks in CT, MA, AND NJ, that have been posted and suggestions given.

Daconil is not as poisonous as you might think compared to many other products. Over the years I've found that many sites, especially those that are organic sites, are totally biased in what they say.

I suggest that anyone here go to EXTOXNET and enter the word chlorothalonil for an unbiased report. Daconil is THE most widely used anti-fungal in the world and has been for many years, so there's lots of information about it.

When you see that Daconil can be used up to the day of harvest that also says something about toxicity. yes, there can be some side effects as regards the environment, and I wish I could send you to a link I once had that indicated that the toxicity of Daconil is less than that of Rotenone, and Rotenone is classified by all organic certifying agencies that I know of as being organic.

personally, I don't care if a product is organic or non-organic b'c what's most important to me is the effect on the environment, humans, pets, etc, that is, my concern ius with toxicity.

And one cannot say that all organic products are safe and all non-organic products are unsafe to use.

Carolyn

*******
I'm curious how you know that the effects increase exponentially when there hasn't been any research conducted.
How can we take any of your other claims seriously.

This isn't an organic forum. I don't post much, but I read often. I'm tired of a select few of the organic folks being overly aggressive and judgmental with there insistence that growing organically is the only way.

If you want to suggest an organic approach, I'm sure the OP would appreciate hearing your thoughts. But korney asked for guidance on how to properly use Daconil and doesn't desreve a lecture.

E X T O X N E T

Extension Toxicology Network

Pesticide Information Profiles

A Pesticide Information Project of Cooperative Extension Offices of Cornell University, Oregon State University, the University of Idaho, and the University of California at Davis and the Institute for Environmental Toxicology, Michigan State University. Major support and funding was provided by the USDA/Extension Service/National Agricultural Pesticide Impact Assessment Program.

EXTOXNET primary files maintained and archived at Oregon State University

Revised June 1996

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Chlorothalonil

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

Trade and Other Names: Trade names for chlorothalonil include Bravo, Chlorothalonil, Daconil 2787, Echo, Exotherm Termil, Forturf, Mold-Ex, Nopcocide N-96, Ole, Pillarich, Repulse, and Tuffcide. The compound can be found in formulations with many other pesticide compounds.

Regulatory Status: Chlorothalonil is classified as a General Use Pesticide (GUP) by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. It is classified as toxicity class II - moderately toxic, due to its potential for eye irritation. Chlorothalonil containing products have a range of Signal Words, including WARNING (Bravo 720, 500), CAUTION (Exotherm Termil), and DANGER (Bravo W-75, Daconil W-75). Each of these products has a different formulation and product concentration and thus requires a different Signal Word.

Chemical Class: chloronitrile

Introduction: Chlorothalonil is a broad-spectrum organochlorine fungicide used to control fungi that threaten vegetables, trees, small fruits, turf, ornamentals, and other agricultural crops. It also controls fruit rots in cranberry bogs.

Formulation: The compound can be found in formulations with many other pesticide compounds.

Toxicological Effects:

Acute toxicity: Chlorothalonil is slightly toxic to mammals, but it can cause severe eye and skin irritation in certain formulations [2]. Very high doses may cause a loss of muscle coordination, rapid breathing, nose bleeding, vomiting, hyperactivity, and death. Dermatitis, vaginal bleeding, bright yellow and/or bloody urine, and kidney tumors may also occur [17]. The oral LD50 is greater than 10,000 mg/kg in rats and 6000 mg/kg in mice [9,17]. The acute dermal LD50 in both albino rabbits and albino rats is 10,000 mg/kg (9,17). In albino rabbits, 3 mg of chlorothalonil applied to the eyes caused mild irritation that subsided within 7 days of exposure [35].
Chronic toxicity: In a number of tests of varying lengths of time, rats fed a range of doses of chlorothalonil generally showed no effects on physical appearance, behavior, or survival [35]. Skin contact with chlorothalonil may result in dermatitis or light sensitivity [35]. Human eye and skin irritation is linked to chlorothalonil exposure; 14 of 20 workers exposed to 0.5% chlorothalonil in a wood preservative developed dermatitis. All workers showed swelling and inflammation of the upper eyelids [35]. Allergic skin responses have also been noted in farm workers [7].
Reproductive effects: Administration of high doses of chlorothalonil to pregnant rabbits through the stomach during the sensitive period of gestation was required to induce abortion in 4 of the 9 mothers. This and other studies suggest that chlorothalonil will not affect human reproduction at expected exposure levels [35].
Teratogenic effects: Long-term studies indicate that high doses fed to rats caused reduced weight gains for males and females in each generation studied [35]. Female rats given high doses of chlorothalonil through the stomach during the sensitive period of gestation had normal fetuses, even though that dose was toxic to the mothers [35]. A study of birth defects in rabbits showed no effects [36]. Chlorothalonil is not expected to produce birth defects in humans.
Mutagenic effects: Mutagenicity studies on various animals, bacteria, and plants indicate that chlorothalonil does not cause any genetic changes [17,35,36]. The compound is not expected to pose mutagenic risks to humans.
Carcinogenic effects: Based on evidence from animal studies, chlorothalonil's carcinogenic potential is unclear. Male and female rats fed chlorothalonil daily over a lifetime developed carcinogenic and benign kidney tumors at the higher doses [35]. In another study, where mice were fed high daily doses of chlorothalonil for 2 years, females developed tumors in the fore-stomach area (attributed to irritation by the compound) and males developed carcinogenic and benign kidney tumors [35].
Organ toxicity: Chronic studies of rats and dogs fed high dietary levels show that chlorothalonil is toxic to the kidney. In addition to less urine output, changes in the kidney included enlargement, greenish-brown color, and development of small grains [37].
Fate in humans and animals: Chlorothalonil is rapidly excreted, primarily unchanged, from the body. It is not stored in animal tissues. Rats and dogs fed very high doses for 2 years eliminated almost all of the chemical in urine, feces, and expired air [17,38]. At lower concentrations, chlorothalonil leaves the body within 24 hours. Residues have not been found in the tissues or milk of dairy cows fed chlorothalonil [17].
Ecological Effects:

Effects on birds: Chlorothalonil is practically nontoxic to birds. The LD50 in mallard ducks is 5000 mg/kg [9]. Most avian wildlife are not significantly affected by this compound [17].
Effects on aquatic organisms: Chlorothalonil and its metabolites are highly toxic to fish, aquatic invertebrates, and marine organisms. Fish, such as rainbow trout, bluegill, and channel catfish are noticeably affected even when chlorothalonil levels are low (less than 1 mg/L). The LC50 is 0.25 mg/L in rainbow trout, 0.3 mg/L in bluegills, and 0.43 mg/L in channel catfish [9]. Chlorothalonil does not store in fatty tissues and is rapidly excreted from the body. Its bioaccumulation factor is quite low [17].
Effects on other organisms: The compound is nontoxic to bees [9].
Environmental Fate:

Breakdown in soil and groundwater: Chlorothalonil is moderately persistent. In aerobic soils, the half-life is from 1 to 3 months. Increased soil moisture or temperature increases chlorothalonil degradation. It is not degraded by sunlight on the soil surface [17]. Chlorothalonil has high binding and low mobility in silty loam and silty clay loam soils, and has low binding and moderate mobility in sand [35]. Chlorothalonil was not found in any of 560 groundwater samples collected from 556 U.S. sites [35].
Breakdown in water: In very basic water (pH 9.0), about 65% of the chlorothalonil was degraded into two major metabolites after 10 weeks. Chlorothalonil was found in one surface water location in Michigan at 6.5 mg/L [35].
Breakdown in vegetation: Chlorothalonil's residues may remain on above-ground crops at harvest, but will dissipate over time. Chlorothalonil is a fairly persistent fungicide on plants, depending on the rate of application. Small amounts of one metabolite may be found in harvested crops [37].
Physical Properties:

Appearance: Chlorothalonil is an aromatic halogen compound, a member of the chloronitrile chemical family. It is a grayish to colorless crystalline solid that is odorless to slightly pungent [9].
Chemical Name: tetrachloroisophthalonitrile [9]
CAS Number: 1897-45-6
Molecular Weight: 265.92
Water Solubility: 0.6 mg/L @ 25 C [9]
Solubility in Other Solvents: acetone s.s.; dimethyl sulfoxide s.s.; cyclohexanone s.s.; kerosene i.s.; xylene s.s. [9]
Melting Point: 250-251 C [9]
Vapor Pressure: 1.3 mPa @ 40 C [9]
Partition Coefficient: 437 (calc.): 20.9 [17]
Adsorption Coefficient: 1380 [14]
Exposure Guidelines:

ADI: 0.03 mg/kg/day [27]
MCL: Not Available
RfD: 0.015 mg/kg/day [8]
PEL: Not Available
HA: 0.5 mg/L (longer-term) [35]
TLV: Not Available
Basic Manufacturer:

Crystal Chemical Inter-America
10303 N.W. Freeway, Suite 512
Houston TX 77083

Phone: 713-956-6196
Emergency: Not Available

References:

References for the information in this PIP can be found in Reference List Number 6

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

DISCLAIMER: The information in this profile does not in any way replace or supersede the information on the pesticide product labeling or other regulatory requirements. Please refer to the pesticide product labeling.

But if you do apply chemicals you should not use just chlorothalonil. Doing so can make an already bad problem worse in several ways.

I just watched a show on PBS about Thomas Jefferson's garden at Monticello. His diary was filled with failures in his gardens but he showed that failures help bring future successes.

I've gotten by with proper spacing, good organic mulch, soaker hose and plenty of compost for many years. No sprays in at least 12 years now. This year is challenging with the lack of sun but I'm hanging in there.

Mule, what is your opinion on rotating it with Mancozeb?

Mule, what is your opinion on rotating it with Mancozeb?

If you are reading or posting here, presumably you have a computer or computer-access, do your own research.

It would be ridiculous to post on an organic forum where people have already informed themselves.

If you do not think the pesticides we use poison us and the earth then you are terribly uninformed. There is nothing debatable about this. This question has been answered.
Maybe you don't think global climate change is real either?

The reason for my post is that there are some people out there who will take the opportunity to educate themselves.
If one person researches the subject, and saves their child from liver cancer, then it is worthwhile.

If you do not care to - then - no need to comment.

And I don't see what is inflammatory about asking why one would use a toxic product.
Is it inflammatory to ask a question?

If you don't like the chances of chems then use some natural fungicides such as AVCT ot ACT(aireated vermi compost tea) the tea has natural fungi and yeast eating bacteria.

Control of this devastating blight is not just about us. And organic tomato farmers are the most at risk.

I'm with Jeff Gillman, author of The Truth About Organic Gardening: Benefits, Drawbacks, and the Bottom Line and The Truth About Garden Remedies: What Works, What Doesn't, and Why . While he advocates organic methods where they work, a simplistic organic = good, synthetic = bad paradigm has no basis in fact.

"Gardeners tend to assume that any product or practice labeled as organic is automatically safe for humans and beneficial to the environment. And in many cases this is true. The problem, as Jeff Gillman points out in this fascinating, well-researched book, is that it is not universally true, and the exceptions can pose a significant threat to human health. To cite just two examples: animal manures are widely viewed as prime soil amendments. When properly treated, they are; but if they are insufficiently composted, they can be a source of harmful E. coli contamination. Even more dangerous, potentially, are organic insecticides like rotenone, which is every bit as toxic as the synthetic compounds it is meant to replace. Gillman's contention is that all gardening products and practices - organic and synthetic - need to be examined on a case-by-case basis to determine both whether they are safe and whether they accomplish the task for which they are intended. When gardeners are well informed about the precise nature and consequences of what they use and do in the garden, they are in a much better position to make responsible, effective choices. If you've ever wondered about the merits of a specific insecticide, herbicide, or fungicide, or debated whether practices such as planting cover crops or companion plants are worth the trouble, you'll find the answers you've sought in these pages, along with a clear, careful, and good-humored analysis of benefits and drawbacks. Ultimately, Gillman concludes, organic methods are preferable in most situations that gardeners are likely to encounter. After reading this eye-opening book, you will understand why, and why knowledge is the gardener's most important tool."

A limited preview of both books is available on Google Books:

The Truth About Organic Gardening
http://books.google.com/books?id=SAAsf4H8BocC

The Truth About Garden Remedies
http://books.google.com/books?id=tf11WJ9PVfwC

Gillman's favorite fungicide is MILK in a 2 parts water, 1 part milk solution. It's been proven to work on roses for black spot disease and is suspected to work on other fungal diseases as well. The key word here, though, is "suspected". Faced with a tsunami of late blight, should one take the chance on a "suspected" remedy? (Well, actually, there is no remedy for late blight. Even chlorothalonil is at best a preventative measure.)

I, like Gillman, prefer proven research over tradition and oft-repeated (not-so)urban legends. Therefore, my Legends rose tree is gets milk. Aphids get shot with dishwashing liquid. But in case this horrid epidemic of late blight (the disease that caused the Irish Potato Famine) shows up in South Dakota, I treat my tomato plants treated once a week with what's already known to be an effective prophylaxis ... chlorothalonil.

Meanwhile, compost tea has been proven to be ineffective against late blight.

Happy Gardening,

Tom

SENCLESS DRIVEL IS CALLED "HIGHJACKING THE THREAD"

FRICK'N TREE HUGGERS- GET OFF YOUR SOAPBOX

Actinovate; used as a foliar or soil drench
http://www.naturalindustries.com/2005-sp.factsheet-MSDS.pdf
EXEL (Agri-Fos); foliar, drench and systemic
http://www.organiclabs.com/organic_labs_home_lawn_garden_exel_product.htm
Azoxystrobin; foliar, Systemic
http://www.al.gov.bc.ca/pesticides/infosheets/azoxystrobin.pdf

Last night I actually had a nightmare and woke up in a cold sweat.

I read alot varying advice and went ahead and treated with the Donacil/Chlorothalonil, Ortho"Garden Disease Control" says it stops over 130 Diseases so we will see...My thought is once this has started in your its "All Over" as I have not see anyone say "Its stopped the onslaught" only Prevented..so wiped brow and will see.

My waiting brings me to ask if I pick my large green now before they even look like they have been affected might they still be infected if put into paper bags to try n rippen..I suppose It could not hurt to pic a few and see but wonder if anyone has exp. with this or will they too succume it time..I found this link that I thought I would post too as there is much debate on what to do and use ..

That is my understanding.
But if you spray the plant (with fruits on it,) you have to check the pesticide's label. probably you should not consume them for like 5 days. This is the chemical in the spray not the fungus.

About harvesting tomatoes:
I have recently learned on this forum that if you pick a tomato, as early as you see a color break, you can safely pick and let it fully ripen inside, without any bag or direct sun.

So this way, you can save some of the tomatoes even if you lose the plant.