I transplanted a few days after the "2 weeks" after the last frost date.

So, TECHNICALLY I was ok.

But I can't start eating my tomatoes in... AUGUST. I want them in July, so next year I will transplant - if weather allows - 2 weeks BEFORE the last frost date.

If something happens, I'm sure I will find a solution.

In the last few years nothing happened, so it's highly unlikely that anything will happen next year. But anyway, I assume the risk.

I was going to do a gutter system this year and didn't have time to put it together so hopefully I can get that done next year in time.

I need to get a better trellis\cage system next year as well.
I bought 6 of the EZ Tomato Cages and they have worked very well. I may get some of the Texas Cages or do some kind of cattle cage setup.

What I learned this year was to:

Either do what I had intended, and prune everything to one stem.

Or

Tell hubby that the wood he intended to use was not going to be strong enough for a tomato trellis!

We learned that wimpy trellises do not hold enormous tomato plants up when it blows and rains. They come crashing down and it's hard to sort everything out and string it back up again.

Linda

1) Don't plant tomatoes (or any heavy feeder) in brand new garden beds. It usually takes at least a year before new garden beds grow well for me and I don't know why I didn't think of this before planting. So this year I was having issues keeping the tomatoes fertilized.

2) Don't wait to fertilize. At the first sign the tomato leaves are losing their luster, give them some fert and don't be skimpy about it. Dry organic fertilizers take a while to kick in. Especially in new beds. (I very rarely fertilize my garden at all.)

3) Those cheap three ring cages, by themselves, don't even really work for determinates. They need at least one stake to keep them from falling over mid season. The only problem this caused was that it made the garden difficult to navigate since the plants flopped over into the paths.

4) Don't plant tomatoes somewhere that you'll only have access to them about once a week. I've got half my plants at a different location and even though I was picking them at color break, I was still losing tomatoes to slugs and bugs (slugs mostly). It was also a bother just to keep them watered and growing well. I only had a dozen plants in that location but it was enough to make me rethink planting them there again.

I started the seeds on time, transplanted them on time, and had ripe tomatoes in mid-July. Everything went well except for points 1, 2, and 4. Of course next year I'll probably have disease issues so I'm not looking forward to that.

Rodney

Next year I think I'll start earlier and skip the heirlooms because they didn't handle heat well. The hybrid did well, though.

> Besides, this spring I saw many, MANY of the tomatoes mentioned here at the garden center.

Yes, the garden centers have MANY tomatoes, but you might want varieties that they DON’T have.

Also, be aware that sometimes the variety you buy is NOT what’s written on the label.

And, those plants were feeded with synthetic fertilizers, so if you care about growing organic…

It's a lot easier to raise tomatoes than kids !

Kids you have to provide with shelter and food, but also with education, good manners, intellectual culture, and you get nasty sermons from their teachers for years, and then they just go away and think you're an old boring bag.

Tomatoes you give birth to without suffering, you provide them with shelter and food in form of some soil with cheap thrash, and they stay right here offering you an endless stream of colorful fruits that you give around gathering compliments and building your self esteem.

The main consequences of overwatering are: tomato cracking / splitting and the tomatoes will taste "watery" (bland).

I’ll have to read more about watering - I use drip irrigation.

I decided to plant melons for the first time this year. And I put them in a patch of ground that had never been used for growing. When the seedlings came up, I could not tell the difference between them and the weed seedlings. Sigh. :(

Angie

>Need bigger and better sprayer…

Here are some sprayers; hopefully you’ll find one that you’ll like:

Solo (1-Liter)

Solo (2-Liter)

Chapin (1-Gallon)

Smith (2-Gallon)

Solo (2-Gallon)

Solo (2-1/4 Gallon)

Solo (4-Gallon)

Chapin (4-Gallon)

5) If you cut a determinate plant that's done producing back to 8-12 inches tall it will regrow into a compact bush and flower again. Will these new flowers will produce ripe fruit before the first frost? I have no idea but I'll find out.

Rodney

Rodney

1- Start FEWER seeds/seedlings next time, and those should be mostly hard-to-find varieties. This year, after giving away half a dozen, I still had too many.

2- Going to shift more toward DETS, as much as possible. b/c (a) they are compact and take smaller space (b) easier to control (by cage, stake)..(c) they can be containered.

3- Avoid LATE varieties. By the time they come to production our weather cools off so much that summer crops won't grow well, though our FFD arrive around mid November.

4- After amending the beds in the fall, I will cover them with plastic, all winter (rain proof). This way the nutrients will not be washed down by over 28 inches of rain fall from October till plant out time in April.

5- will use mini portable hoops and home made W.O.A( wall Of Air, using bubble wrap ,on chicken wire cage)

6- Organize plants orientation/spot according to estimated growth size. ( tallest on the north ...).

Although I did do some of the point above, but I realize that it was not enough, on a well thought out manner. It pays to get organized and do what you think is necessary, rather than thinking about doing it while taking shower. Hehe

re: # 2: what DETS you have in mind ?

re: # 3: starting EARLIER could solve the problem ?

re: # 4: can I see some pictures of your mini portable hoops and home made W.O.A. ?

For W.O.A. I got a roll of rabbit fence wire, make cages of about 12" diameter, 2 ft tall and wrap it with bubble wrap. Bigger the bubble, the better.

#2: I am growing Bush stake, Siletze, Legend, Silvery Fir Tree. But I might add few more.

#3: Starting early here can help. BECAUSE our temperatures warm up REAL slowly and RARELY take off. So every day counts. And by starting (planting out) I mean right around the LFD, with an eye on the forecast

EDIT: picture of a W.O.A

I forgot to mention that my beds will be covered with BLACK plastic. This will help to warm up the soil and prevent rain water from cooling them down. At the plant out I will just cut rounds of about 12", wherein I plant. The remainder area is covered and in such a way that rain water will dance away.

It is very dandy. You can remove it when the night lows climb to mid 40s or whatever you feel comfortable with. I also use it during hardening of time

The lesson that I learned this year is that - No matter what anyone says on this forum or elsewhere - I will always prune indeterminate tomato plant suckers and allow only two main stems - then four up to six stems per plant - and that is it - no more !!!

On the tomato plants we did not prune suckers or pruned less suckers than usual this year as an experiment - we had a mangled mess of foliage with lousy production and the tomato fruits were smaller - what ever works for you is great - but pruning suckers is the ONLY way to go in a GH - IMO.

> I forgot to mention that my beds will be covered with BLACK plastic.

I use fabric mulch. You think plastic is better than fabric ?

What about straw ?

What about straw ?
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Daniel, I use black plastic, not to prevent weeds or retain moisture ; I use it to warm up the soil and keep away excessive rain water. Then I remove them by early July. I have had ZERO weeds. I am not worried about moisture retention her in our normally cool PNW. I used a lot of mulch (straw, pine straw) when I was gardening down in Georgia.

Hudson, I am a proponent of pruning. I do as you have said. I believe excess foliage make no or little contribution for fruits production. Suckers, especially the late comers are like babies that for a good while use plants' resources. Most indeterminats have a lot of foliage (leaves) to to provide the needed photosynthesis.
In my climate, by the time the late branches/suckers are mature enough to produce , there is not much time left to grow and ripen their fruits. Maybe for places that they have long, warm growing season ( 7+ months,) those suckers may actually produce ripe fruits.

> Then I remove them by early July. I have had ZERO weeds.

You have zero weeds in July. How about... August ?

> I used a lot of mulch (straw, pine straw) when I was gardening down in Georgia.

So you don't use straw right now. What kind of mulch did you use this year ?

> I learned to "dial in" my drip irrigation system.

Good for you. It will take some time for me to learn that.

> Had a really hard time trying to get the right amount of water.

You tell me…

> Started with 1g.p.h. emitters, but began getting BER.

I have 1.5 gph, emitters and I have some BER, and some cracking / splitting - mostly on my cherry tomatoes.

> Changed to two emitters…

I’m sorry I don’t understand. Do you mean 2 gph emitters ?

> ...running for approximately 30 min every second day.

30 min. ? ONLY ? I think that would water 1-2'' deep, which, imho, is too little.

Every OTHER DAY ? That OFTEN ?

I mean I can understand 1'' per watering, in 20 days you can have 10'' of watered soil, but after that if you keep the same rule - 1'' every other day - by day 30, imho, you might OVERWATER the tomatoes. This is a quick thought, but I'll think again.

Btw, do you use any type of mulch ?

Also, do you use a Soil Moisture Tester ?

> Great results!

Cool ! I'm happy for you.

> Then I remove them by early July. I have had ZERO weeds.

You have zero weeds in July. How about... August ?
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Daniel
No weeds. ZERO. Weeds either grow from some perennial roots or seeds. I would say mostly from seeds. I prevent/fight the weeds going to seed in my backyard and because it is a confined area , wind cannot bring them, maybe except dandelion seeds.

2. Water only with rainwater. NO CHLORENE infused city water, ever. Keep them moist, avoid stress from dried out soil.

But I don't understand where the other "SALTs" come from? MG fertilizers that I use have a 3-1-2 formulation and they are water soluble.

I know "N" does not last very long and won't build up. "K" is semi stable. Only "P" accumulates(if applied excessively) and it wont go don with water anyway.

In the course of whole season maybe I use about 5 lbs of fertilizer on about 150 sq-ft area. That is about 0.5 oz per square ft. Let us just say ONE oz per sqr-ft. How can it build up salts?

Yeah, well chemically they might be categorized as "salt" but they wont become crystalized. That can only happen IFF there is an excessive accumulation far beyond the use and need of the plants.
My garden soil appears to be very healthy as reflected by the growth of the plants. I cannot see the microbes but I find a lot of earth worms in it.

Anyway, we make choices and have to live with it.

I DON"T use black plastic as MULCH, or in DRIP irrigation. I use them just as a means to raise soil temperature early in the season and I remove them once the weather has warmed up.
I use here b/c of our long cool spring and early summer weather. I would've not used it if I was gardening in places like GA , TX, SoCAL....

yes , Linda.
And I do it because in those months we get about 30 inches of rain (no snow). It just floods the beds, kills even some of the perennial maybe microbes and worms too. PNW, is very very different from ANYWHER in the US. It is more like England, without the winds. .

While both are good for protecting the lower leaves against rain water splashing, next year I will use ONLY fabric.

It happened to me a few times that I was watering my plants in the morning - using drip irrigation - checking the weather forecast - everything was ok - and suddenly in the afternoon OUT OF THE BLUE a 1 hr. rain.

The problem with the straw is that it allows 100% of the rainwater to go through. The fabric allows only about 10-20%. Heavier the rain - obviously - less the percentage.

So, in that rainy day, my tomatoes received DOUBLE the water they needed. So, many of my tomatoes were watery and split / cracked - especially the cherries. Later in the season I reduced the watering, and the tomatoes' taste improved dramatically.

>I do not water in August at all.

Now, that's INTERESTING. I will definitely keep that in mind next year. Thank you.

But I have a question: last summer - 2013 - in July / August we had many days in upper 80, some in 90s and a few in upper 90s. That NO watering in August would still apply, in your opinion ?

> ...landscape fabric could be worst tool to use as it does not allow natural processes to happen and kills microbes.

Could you please elaborate ?

I've learned never to vacate during the growing season because things can go south very quickly, and I'm not talking about the Caribbean haha..

I've also learned that I desire more control of my environment - does that make me controlling? LoL

Daniel, what Linda was referring to was the fact that landscape fabric will block organic matter from ever reaching the soil.. Thereby starving beneficial microbes; the foundation of an organic approach.. Mulch is your best friend when it comes to organics and different types will serve different purposes. For example, grass clippings used as mulch will encourage a bacterial dominated soil food web (even more so when some are buried); while leaves or leaf mold will encourage a fungal dominant soil (unless shredded).. This has further implications: grasses, vegetables and annuals prefer their N in the form of nitrates (No3 - bacterial conversion); while perennials, shrubs and trees prefer their N in the form of ammonium (NH4 - fungal conversion).. So by using the correct mulch and creating the correct bacterial/fungal ratios within your soil food web you'll have greater success. =)

I also learned that Ananas Noire makes really funky looking canned tomatoes. :)

I also have a greenhouse- brand new this year and of course I totally overplanted! One bed is 3x12 and I put 7 indeterminate tomatoes in, all with the "stronger" cages. It became a huge, giant jungle mess of foliage, with branches sprawling everywhere and mixing with branches of the adjacent toms. Hubby had to help jerry-rig some metal support posts, but even then, the branches all dropped and bent over the cages a good 2-3 feet. I pruned quite a bit of foliage multiple times to increase the air circulation, so that helped. Tons of toms overall, so production is good, and some of the toms are pretty big, depending on variety. Most are still in the process of ripening.

So my question is- have you already tried the pruning method you spoke of, of having only 2 main stems and then 4-6 stems off each of those? Hubby is planning on devising some sort of system to contain the toms next year but I'm wondering if your method will take care of the problem. Thanks!

Oh my, that must have been one heck of a jungle! Haha
In that amount of space I would have done more like 3 possibly 4 plants max.. You could probably get away with 3 indets and one det. I too have made similar mistakes and it's just so frustrating when they become entangled like that.. For that reason I stay atleast 40" apart (on center) with all my indeterminates.. It just makes the garden more organized, manageable, fun and more healthy for that matter; as an entangled canopy encourages things like pests, fungus, disease etc..

In terms of pruning down to two main stems - I'm not a proponent. I'd simply plant the appropriate amount of plants for such a space and keep up with them.. You could make some nice heavy duty cages (or the hubby can lol), or try out the Florida weave.. When it comes down to it you will be reducing your yield when you start pruning meristems (main stems).

Don't get me wrong, I prune the occasional lateral stem (often referred to as "sucker shoots" though I don't agree lol) if it's very small, or if I need to get some airspace in the center of a plant, but besides that I simply tie up most of the stems to a stake with a PVC trellis of sorts and let them do their thing..! I do prune atleast 8-10" up from the soil to keep bacteria/spores and such from splashing onto leaves when it rains.. It's asking for trouble to let stems/leaves/fruit touch the soil IMO..
Take care =)

2. Those cute little plants become giant mangled monsters so
- don't over plant in small raised beds. They will get bigger
- keep up on the pruning unless you want a tomato jungle
- use better and more supports to keep the giants from falling over
- write down what's planted where because sharpie will wash off sticks and the plants will grow big enough to hide the name sticks

3. Hail is horrible! My beautiful plants have looked beat up for three weeks now.

4. Chickens do not belong in the garden once the tomatoes begin to ripen... Unless you want them pre- tasted

Already saving seeds and thinking about next season!!!

And yes, I keep notes of each tomato where is planted.

Rodney

They were so much easier and hardier than the eggplants and peppers.