Hi Mick,

Welcome to GardenWeb. There is a possibility you might have someone lecture you that this type of request should be in the exchange forum, however, if I recall correctly, you are not able to post in it because you are not in the United States.

I'm sure someone will make you an offer. **VBG** If they do, you might want to post in this thread that you found some.

Betsy

This post was edited by bets on Sun, Aug 4, 13 at 15:25

Received seeds from Betsy this morning.!! Can't thank you enough for your trouble and I look forward to sending pics next year.
regards Mick

Hi Betsy, hope you are well. All looking good over here in the UK. 100% germination but still a bit nippy at night so keeping 'em in the propagator for now.

regards Mick

This post was edited by bigshed on Tue, Apr 1, 14 at 11:19

Something about this connection made me smile. Yes indeed there are still wonderful folks around... the seedlings look wonderful!

A very nice post to read ! Let us know how they do !

Can you please describe this tomato a bit ? What is so special about it, in taste, color, size, productivity, etc. ?

Sounds like Santa Sweets is the Company's name that grows and sells grape tomatos to Supermarkets. I do not think it is a variety in and of itself.
http://www.santasweets.com/

Please read the link below.

I had made friends with Andrew Chu in FL who got the original hybrid from the Known YOu seed company in Taiwan,

It was he who told me that 99% of the F2 seeds come true, and that the offtype is a different shape and has a lower brix ( sugar) concentration.

I spread that word around and there are now folks at beyon the F2 who grow it and all is fine.

In the meantime the Procacci Bros of Phiidelphia wanted to put Andrew out of business, they did, and subsequently no seeds for the F1 hybrid could be sold in the US, the last place they were sold in the US was at TGS.

However Andrew had other places he could buy the seeds and kept selling fruits.

It's not the first place that the Procacci Bros put out of business, in a nasty takeover the did in the woman in FL who was selling what we know as the UGly tomato, original source was Italy.

What's sold in the supermarkets these days is the F1 hybrid, so if you want your own OP, just save the F2 seeds and then look for the offtype ones and ignore them, but I forgot to say that the offtype is round, you can't do Brix levels at home and you'll have your own OP version which is indistinguishable form the hybrid.

For sure I've grown them and they are very productive and tasty as well, and are known as the first grape shaped tomato, although in the way past there were others with the same shape, but not marketed, and not really known.

Carolyn

Here is a link that might be useful: Santa Sweets

It was he who told me that 99% of the F2 seeds come true

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That is interesting to me and supports some of my views on planting F2 seeds without a fear.

Hi Carolyn. My goodness, it's been a while since I've seen any of your very, very informative posts. I'm glad that I've found THE tomato lady here at GW. :)

I just wanted to ask what you think about the handheld Brix refractometers that are available for purchase. They are quite affordable, and I was thinking about purchasing one for myself to measure the Brix content of everything that I'm growing on my "back forty." I guess it's the old lab tech in me that misses doing all those tests and working in the lab. ;) LOL

Anyhow, do you have an opinion on those small, handheld Brix refractometers? They wouldn't be up to the sophistication of a real laboratory, but they might be close enough for my purposes. Just curious as to your opinion because I know that you know your stuff. :)

In keeping with thread content, I've had success saving and growing out the F2 Santa seeds myself. Delicious little tomato!

This post was edited by GeorgiaStreak on Sat, Apr 5, 14 at 19:40

It was he who told me that 99% of the F2 seeds come true
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That is interesting to me and supports some of my views on planting F2 seeds without a fear.

********

True for Santa F1 as Andrew Chu found out and said that 99% of the saved F2 seeds come true, but I definitely would not extend that to any other F1 hybrids out there. Some have tried and been marginally successful, but most have not been successful at all..

The reason that Andrew knew that was b/c he was commercial and was growing thousands of plants each year. Home gardeners don't do that for a single variety.Meaning that the offtype was very very rare.

Carolyn

Georgia, I spend very little time here and spend most of my time elsewhere, but I can't tell you where since ivillage wants to keep folks here and if one refers to another message site one can get banned,

I've never personally used home Brix kits but they have been around a long time and a few years ago I knew someone in the midwest who was using one to see what the Brix level was on about 100 varieties, just out of curiousity.

And I remember it well since he sent me the leftover seed s from each pack.

I was never interested in specfic Brix levels, I was just interested in taste and Brix data, whch measure all soluble sugars, is not always related to taste. The primary determinates of taste are the specific genes in the DNA of each variety.

Carolyn

True for Santa F1 as Andrew Chu found out and said that 99% of the saved F2 seeds come true, but I definitely would not extend that to any other F1 hybrids out there. Some have tried and been marginally successful, but most have not been successful at all.. (Carolyn)

%%%%%%%%%%

You quoted somebody in affirmation !!!

(((( but I definitely would not extend that to any other F1 hybrids out there.)))))
"DEFINITELY"? That is a strong statement. Though you are entitled to your opinion.

It is Just a principle of probability and statistic. If it happened to Santa Sweet, it can happen to anything else with SOME degree probability.
Ask Merilyn Vos Savant, if you like. hehe

You quoted somebody in affirmation !!!

(((( but I definitely would not extend that to any other F1 hybrids out there.)))))
"DEFINITELY"? That is a strong statement. Though you are entitled to your opinion.

It is Just a principle of probability and statistic. If it happened to Santa Sweet, it can happen to anything else with SOME degree probability.
Ask Merilyn Vos Savant, if you like. hehe

&&&&&

Yes, I did quote Andrew Chu on the 99% number.

Theoretically it could happen to another F1 hybrid as well, but again, one would have to grow thousands of plants of a single variety each season,as Chu did, to find the offtypes b/c they are so rare. This site is primarily composed of Home Gardeners as you know, and no one here is going to plant a thousand plants of a single variety each year. There are plenty of places where Commercial growers communicate with each other. Perhaps you might be more comfortable there? ( wink)

Seysonn, it's getting close to if I said the sun rises in the East and sets in the West you would say that that's based on statistical probabilities and would disagree with me. LOL

And yes, Marilyn and I have been close friends for many years. LOL, LOL, LOL,

Carolyn

Seysonn, it's getting close to if I said the sun rises in the East and sets in the West you would say that that's based on statistical probabilities and would disagree with me. LOL
%%%%%%%

Not a relevant analogy there. I just referred to what you already admitted being TRUE or can be true.
. SAMPLING
To test something STATISTICALLY, one does not need to have a LARGE sample. Samples are normally small. Otherwise it won't be a sampling. From a lot of 1000 tires in stock, they sample a handful and determine how the population is (by some degree of confidence) The same is true with 1000 seeds. We can grow a SAMPLE(handful in number) and then figure out the behavior of the population.
So one does not need to grow 1000s of tomatoes of a type to figure out its variation.

If you say so Seysonn.

I give up trying to explain and reason with you.

Carolyn

Many thanks for getting back to me on my question, Carolyn. :)

I guess that I'm just going to have to track you down and find your hangout-- now that I have a little more time on my hands to talk about the love we both share---the love of gardening.

Whenever I talk to someone about heirloom tomatoes, I always have you fabulous book handy to share with them. It is still my favorite book on the subject because I know you poured your heart and soul into that book. And it shows. Blessings to you, dear lady. :)

I give up trying to explain and reason with you.

Carolyn
%%%%%%%%%%%%
Thank you. Same here.

You seem to take your tomatoes pretty seriously over there in the colonies.
regards Mick

Not always Mick, not always,

It depends on the varieties being discussed and who is doing the discussing.

On the paternal side I'm all English way back, have visited England, and loved it. Actually the orignal home of the Competition sized fruits and veggies as I see it. And that interest HAS migrated to the Colonies and there are several websites just for that subject.

I have many friends in England and Wales to whom I send seeds each year as requested from my annual seed offer elsewhere, so I know the need for greenhouse/aka glasshouse growing in some areas, and yes, all the rainy weather.

Carolyn, who sometimes sees herself as a born again Druid who roamed Stonehenge, etc. LOL And that b'c of her love of nature.

update, all looking good

The one nearest the glass looks a bit dodgy, might be an offtype, different leaf setup to the others.
regards Mick

Your setup looks fabulous Mick! You should have some tomatoes in about 50 days!

Linda (who will be planting out any day now....)

Mick, the only difference between the F1 Santa's and the OP version, and I assume Bets sent you F2 or a higher generation than F2 seeds, is that the offtype has round fruits, not grape shaped, and the Brix level is lower.

So you can't really attribute an offtype to a different leaf pattern as I see it.

But do keep that plant and see what you get. ( smile)

Carolyn

This post was edited by carolyn137 on Thu, May 22, 14 at 9:23

cropping well now but some of 'em are huge and they don't look like santas. We'll see in a week or two

another pic

3rd pic

They certainly grew well!!!!

Let us know how they taste.

Linda

One thing is for sure ; they are very prolific.
The comes the moment of the truth : How do the fruits taste ?

They look grape shaped to me and I've grown both Santa F1 and various generations of the hybrid which looked the same.

The F1 and the OP version taste the same to me which is a very good taste, but I'm not committed to a particular shape for a cherry sized fruited variety and there are others that I've grown that are not grape shaped that I like much better.

Santa F1 got the reputation it did b'c it was the first grape shaped one that was made available to the public although there were others before Santa that were also grape shaped, but not that available.

Carolyn, who right now has no time to make lists of this or that so thank you in advance for not asking.( smile)

Bringing this old post back to life as I'm looking for some more F2 santa sweet seeds. As last time I can pay by Paypal and this is the only way I can get this variety in the U.K. Hope someone can help again.

Best regards Mick

Mick, I can send you some seeds if you can tell us how they tasted AND get your snail mail or email addy to me. (I'm not used to using the mail program here since they changed over to Houzz).

Linda

Thanks Linda, email is mick@5849.co.uk. We can sort it all out there.

Best regards Mick

early days but 90% germination and looking good

Looking good Mick. I hope they will do well and taste good :).

Linda

Hi Carla, the plants in the large propagator at the back are dwarf french and broad beans in root trainers. In the centre around half are lemon cucumbers and the rest are what Linda sent me (santa sweet f2 , maglia rose , blush and a couple of others ) mixed with a few others which are available from UK seed distributors.

Regards Mick

update, still a bit cool but shouldn't be any further frost

ambrosia pink

blush

maglia rosa

santa sweets

Looking great!

I'm also hardening off my seedlings and hoping to get them planted in a few days.

Linda