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kimcoco

Newbie to tomato planting - need advice

kimcoco
16 years ago

I just posted a message regarding my tomatoes that are rotting. So, I am now looking for advice from all the seasoned professionals out there for next year.

I'm in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. I planted only non-hybrids - Brandywine, Beefsteak and Tomato Boy this year, my first time. I planted only after June 1st, kept soil moist, fertilized 1x weekly with Miracle Gro for tomatoes (after buds appeared), watered only the base and not the vines, staked them, ...my only mistake was planting them too close. They get full sun.

Please give me some advice for next year. Are some cultivars better than others? I prefer the larger tomatoes, not roma or cherry, and no hybrids. I try to use only organic fertilizers on my lawn (yes, I know Miracle Gro is not organic, but it's the exception).

I'm assuming now that too much rain is not good for them. &%&$*#*#(%^ I read that you can get a rain canopy that will still allow sunlight to get through. Do you recommend?

Do I need to be concerned with rabbits that get into my yard? I see them sneaking over there every now and again, but I haven't seen any evidence of them gnawing on my tomatoes.

Any recommendations are appreciated for a successful tomato garden!

Comments (21)

  • kimcoco
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Correction: Better Boy, not Tomato Boy cultivar

  • vtgreenthumb
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I've always had good luck with Jetstar Hybrids. Disease resistant with good fruit set. This was my first year with heirlooms, and I'm sold on Brandywines and Cherokee Purples. Plant at least 3' apart and once the fruit starts, stop the miracle grow. The plant will put too much energy into growing leaves, not fruit. Keep well mulched and if the leaves start yellowing, spray some ortho fungicide (stops the dreaded blight). Good Luck.

  • kimcoco
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks greenthumb. I just can't comprehend spraying fungicides on my tomatoes and then ingesting all those chemicals. I try to buy organic whenever possible, and steer away from adding all those toxic chemicals to my plants. The first two years we owned our home we did the weed & feed on our lawn. We had numerous dead birds, a dead rat, and other sick animals in our yard within a two week time frame. Once we stopped applying all these chemicals to our lawn, the dead bird & rodent issue stopped too. I've gone organic, with the exception of Miracle Gro for my plants. I'm also not interested in Hybrids. I prefer the heirloom cultivars.

    Interesting that you said to fertilize however, until the fruit starts. I was told just the opposite - NOT to fertilize until the fruits start to bud, because otherwise you are fertilizing the vine and not the tomato. The latter seems more logical to me. Can you comment on this?

    Thank you for the feedback.

  • bill-inpnw
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If you do a search here on this forum, you will find all kinds of threads as to taste, size, limited space, etc...I'll provide one thread to show you.

    If you use the Ortho stuff, its non-systemic and you can eat the fruit the next day. Works wonders in fighting off various blights. You can search for threads about this issue as well

    As to the MG stuff, if you add the right amendments to your soil,i.e. composted manure, yard compost, kelp, alfalfa and so on, you don't need to use anything.

    Good luck and happy gardening, Bill

    Here is a link that might be useful: Can only plant 6

  • digdirt2
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    fertilized 1x weekly with Miracle Gro for tomatoes (after buds appeared)

    My! but that is awfully heavy fertilization assuming these are in-ground plants. Container plants may need weekly 1/2 strength feeding but assuming good pre-planting soil preparation, in-ground plants don't. Plus all that extra nitrogen is very attractive to aphids, and as vtgreenthumb said - gets you lots of plant but not much fruit. If you choose to stick with your Miracle Grow that's your choice but tomatoes are not heavy feeders so go easy on it to avoid all the problems excess fertilization can cause.

    Dave

    PS: Given your posted concerns about using chemicals you might want to learn a bit more about MG and consider some other options.

  • oldroser
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Slow down. In answer to your question about picking green fruit now - would say yes, you can pick the fruit that has started to lighten up or begun to color. But I wouldn't pick all of it. Try a few - the flavor isn't as good as vine ripened.
    I apply 10-10-10 around each plant when they are planted. And then don't fertilize again until August, after fruit is well set. Too much fertilizer makes for lush growth but few tomatoes. And lush growth can lead to poor air circulation and problems.
    And you should obviously space them further apart. How close did you plant them? I try to get them 2' apart in the row and the rows three feet apart which is pretty close but I stake and prune. I say try because my sister and nephew plant for me and their idea of spacing is a bit flexible.
    I do spray with daconil which is not poisonous except to fungi. You can spray, wash off the fruit and eat it the same day though I generally pick first. And I spray once a week because I have problems with early blight. It is best to start applying this before you see problems as it is a preventative not a cure. If you are dead set against 'chemicals' you could use a baking soda solution (not but what baking soda is a chemical but it is approved by organic gardeners). Not as effective as daconil.
    Incidentally, I haven't seen any differencei n disease resistance between heirlooms and hybrids.

  • korney19
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm just pasting this in a modified form from another thread...for some reason, I have a feeling you will get many different answers which is the correct way, (plus I also have a feeling this will become yet another anti-Miracle-Gro, anti-Daconil thread.) On the other hand, maybe we can kill 3 birds (threads) with 1 stone.

    I rather choose to grow great tasting heirlooms and a few hybrids of my own, plus Sungold, and water & feed regularly & often via drip fertigation, and get big, juicy, great tasting maters much larger, plus much more output per plant than those dry-farmed or infrequently deep watered. I agree with kubota, especially on the BER issues. Kubota wrote:

    I could never understand the conventional wisdom of how we should be stressing the plants by letting them go dry several days or a week and then soaking them, how is that better than keeping the soil to a uniform moisture? If there is such a thing as ideal amount of soil moisture then why not maintain it at that level all the time if possible, as opposed to alternating between too dry and too wet? Seems to me that both cracking and blossom end rot can result from drying out the roots followed by too much water. When the roots get too dry that limits the calcium uptake hence BER.

    The way I look at it, if I water & feed frequently on a regular schedule (timed drip irrigation/fertigation), there shouldn't be BER, plus by the time the plant is large and loaded with fruits, in essence, I did withhold water near the end just by not increasing the amount of water for the increased mass of the plant & fruits.

    I even went as far last year to break up my yarden into 3 zones with their own needs; giant pumpkins & corn got one zone, raised bed tomatoes got their own zone, and the container tomatoes & peppers got a separate zone. Each zone gets tailored to its needs--for example, the container tomatoes get watered longer than the in-ground tomatoes.

    As for fertilizing, I was never one to believe in just the initial fert at transplant time, or the slight additional fert at fruitset. As plants grow, I believe they need more fertilizing to continue output, especially indeterminates which produce until killed by frost. Anytime the drip comes on to the plants, so does the fertilizer, albeit at a minute amount. And the types of fertilizer are different at different times of the season too--high P early for roots & fruits, then a more balanced or higher K about midway on. I don't cut back on fert until about 1 month before first frost. To me, slow and steady wins the race.

    Yeah, you can all say that tomatoes grow as weeds in their natural environment, why water & fertilize, but show me an indeterminate in its natural environment putting out 40 to 50 "pounders" on 1 plant in a hundred days up north and I'll turn my faucet off.

    'Mater Mark

  • windclimber
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Good advice kim :
    I am of the experience that all success in summer starts with late winter and early spring.
    The soil is the key to all. I add compost balanced in NPK and being sure the ph is right.
    You can obtain soil test kits at the garden center or by contacting your county extension agent. I believe there is a forum here at GW also.
    I don't even mess with it any more as I found center that receives yardwaste, tree trimmings etc. and then processes it into guaranteed balanced weed and disease free compost, and different mulches.
    Late winter and a yard or two (one yard equals two bobcat scoops). turned into the garden soil from overwinter and whala.
    Rabbits have never bothered the plants once they are about a foot tall.
    They like tender young shoots and WILL strip your garden after first setting out your plants if you don't keep them out.Later on your worry could be chipmunks and squirrels.
    Oh yeah.............groundhogs,deer,lions tigers and bears, and nieghbors with flashlights.......oops I digress.
    Good Luck!!
    Tom

  • oldroser
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    One reason for only fertilizing twice is that I'm lazy. Another is that the fertilizer I use is somewhat slow in release (not Miracle Gro but Espoma) and the third is that in my short season, twice seems to do it. The tomatoes keep growing and producing which is the final payback. There's more than one right way.

  • wyndell
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Doesn't it matter which miracle grow is used? I know the one for tomato has higher phosphate (I think 30) than the normal "use for everything" miracle grow. Wouldn't that help in fruit productions? Maybe something like bloom booster once fruit begins? Just wondered.

  • gobig_or_gohome_toms
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bloom boster I think is 15-30-15 and I think tomato is 15-15-15 but I am at work so I cannot verify. I thought the standard flower and veggie was 12-12-12 but could be wrong.

  • korney19
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The Miracle-Gro all purpose 15-30-15, now they call that the bloom booster, maybe it's replacing the 10-52-10.

    Here's the most commonly available Miracle-Gro fertilizers, many have similar names and all may not be available everywhere:

    MIRACLE-GRO WATER SOLUBLE ALL PURPOSE PLANT FOOD 15-30-15
    MIRACLE-GRO ALL-PURPOSE WATER SOLUBLE PLANT FOOD CONCENTRATED 15-30-15
    MIRACLE-GRO WATER SOLUBLE BLOOM BOOSTER FLOWER FOOD 15-30-15
    MIRACLE-GRO WATER SOLUBLE ALL PURPOSE PLANT FOOD 24-8-16 (This is the one most commonly sold and the one to AVOID!)
    MIRACLE-GRO WATER SOLUBLE TOMATO PLANT FOOD 18-18-21
    MIRACLE-GRO WATER SOLUBLE BLOOM BOOSTER PLANT FOOD 10-52-10
    MIRACLE-GRO WATER SOLUBLE BLOOM BOOSTER FLOWER FOOD 10-52-10
    MIRACLE-GRO WATER SOLUBLE ROSE PLANT FOOD 18-24-16
    MIRACLE-GRO NURSERY SELECT WATER SOLUBLE ALL PURPOSE PLANT FOOD 20-20-20
    MIRACLE-GRO PROSELECT WATER SOLUBLE ALL PURPOSE PLANT FOOD 20-20-20
    MIRACLE-GRO QUICK START 4-12-4 STARTER SOLUTION PLANT FOOD
    MIRACLE-GRO QUICK START TRANSPLANT STARTER SOLUTION 4-12-4
    MIRACLE-GRO READY TO USE LIQUAFEED BLOOM BOOSTER FLOWER FOOD 12-9-6
    MIRACLE-GRO READY TO USE LIQUAFEED ALL PURPOSE PLANT FOOD 12-4-8 (S-881)
    MIRACLE-GRO SHAKE 'N FEED CONTINUOUS RELEASE ALL PURPOSE PLANT FOOD 10-10-10
    MIRACLE-GRO SHAKE 'N FEED ALL PURPOSE PLANT FOOD PLUS WEED PREVENTER 10-10-10
    MIRACLE-GRO SHAKE 'N FEED CONTINUOUS RELEASE BLOOM BOOSTER FLOWER FOOD 10-16-10
    MIRACLE-GROSHAKE 'N FEED CONTINUOUS RELEASE ALL PURPOSE PLANT FOOD 19-6-12

    There's probably 20 more that I won't bother posting... the ones in bold I would recommend for tomatoes, peppers, etc.

    Now you can see why all the confusion about using Miracle-Gro, wrong recommendations, as well as many saying M-G has too much Nitrogen. It only has too much N if the ratio is wrong--15-30-15 is a great ratio for tomatoes in the early half of the season--too many people condemn because of the high first # without paying attention to the balance of the rest of the numbers.

    I usually start out with a 15-30-15 or 10-52-10 early in the season to encourage strong roots and flowering, then later in the season swith to something with a high K, like the M-G Tomatoes formula or Plantex 15-15-18.

    Hope this helps.

    Mark

  • digdirt2
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't condemn Miracle Grow. I don't recommend it because (1) the high salt content can build up in the soil, and (2) some use it as an "quick fix" for poor soil instead of fixing the soil, (3) it's nutrient form isn't as readily available to the plant and easily leach out of the soil, and (4) most don't pay attention to the N rating (as Mark suggests) and so use too much.

    But my comment above about investigating it further is in response to kimcoco's statement "ingesting all those chemicals. I try to buy organic whenever possible, and steer away from adding all those toxic chemicals to my plants."

    Dave

  • HoosierCheroKee
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    With regard to the appropriateness of using Miracle Grow type concentrated nutrient products, I think it depends totally on the growing methods and media employed and the correct rate and frequency of application.

    For example, Miracle Grow and similar products provide ideal means of delivering nutrients to tomatoes and peppers grown in containers, IMO, and I have had excellent results and repeated success with such products.

    Let me address a few points made in a previous post:

    1) The build-up of "salts" can easily be flushed out of the growing media in containers and raised beds by occasionally and flooding the growing media a day before you plan on repeating the fertilizer applications.

    2) As to "quick fixing" the soil ... when growing in containers, I use a soilless mix of rotted bark fines, sand, ground corn cobs, peat, etc., and the plants depend on supplemental nutrients on a regular basis. Raised beds present a similar problem, but not as dramatic as I fill them with composted manure and other materials supplimental to the other soilless media. I agree that Miracle Grow is rather inappropriate for grade level, traditional dirt farming ... manure, compost, organic fertilizers, and granular chemical fertilizers are more appropriate to that type of gardening.

    3) I'm not sure why finely granulated, instantly water soluable nutrients such as Miracle Grow wouldn't be readily available to plants? Maybe Dave can elaborate on that one. But yes, I agree they can be leached out of the growing media easily, and as I mentioned above, it might be appropriate to frequently flush them out and reapply.

    4) When using Miracle Grow and similar products on tomatoes, one should pay close attention to the nitrogen percentage as over application will result in excessive foliage production and not address flower/fruit, stem, and root production. That's why such products have formulations especially for bloom boosting, tomato plants, rose plants, azaelias, etc.

    Read the labels. The products Korney highlighted above work well for tomatoes especially in containers. I've gotten great results in 5-gallon containers using tomato or rose formula after transplant and before blossom set, Bloom Booster a couple of times after blossom set, and then tomato or rose formula again later in the season.

    I flush the containers and reapply fertilizer once every week or ten days until a good fruit set and then less frequently afterwards. I had to water daily this summer due to extreme heat and drought, so I didn't worry a bit about salt build-up in the containers.

    In raised beds, I use a modified Earl's Hole Method at planting (do a search), granulated 9-15-15 or 9-12-12 side dressing once on transplant and once again after fruit set, and only use Miracle Grow if I see a serious deficiency. Some varieties are just naturally heavier feeders than others.

    Has anyone mentioned Epsom salts in this thread. It's very helpful for trace minerals, magnesium and sulfur, and helps the tomatoes take up needed calcium from the soil. I also believe in bone meal ... don't know why, but my tomatoes seem to love it.

    I can't stress enough the importance of heaping on the compost, mulch, grass clippings, whatever you have to build a good mellow growing medium in your beds and ground level gardens. But I also believe that no matter what you add in the way of organic material, tomatoes need more nutrients than what one gets from rotted organic matter. Just my opinion from experience.

  • korney19
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't condemn Miracle Grow. I don't recommend it because (1) the high salt content can build up in the soil, and (2) some use it as an "quick fix" for poor soil instead of fixing the soil, (3) it's nutrient form isn't as readily available to the plant and easily leach out of the soil, and (4) most don't pay attention to the N rating (as Mark suggests) and so use too much.

    digdirt, there's nothing more readily available to the plant than water soluble fertilizers like Miracle-Gro, Peters, Jack's, Sam's, etc. Organic ferts must get converted to inorganic form first to be absorbed by plants; water soluble fertilizers are generally in the proper form already and can act immediately.

    And if a grower "fears" chemicals, they may be uninformed about heavy metals which are much, much higher in organic fertilizers than in water soluble fertilizers. Yeah, we've been through all this before with the cadmium, lead, mercury & arsenic being 10-25x higher in some organic type products than in some water soluble products, so I won't go there, I'm sure some of the arguements can still be found in the back pages of the tomato forum if they searched those words.

    I feel it's great building the soil with lots of compost & stuff, I add compost every year, but some get discouraged when they have poor results with their plants and production only to find they've done nothing for their soil and wonder why they have the situation they're in. I feel water soluble fertilizers shouldn't be a band-aid but a supplement for increased production and not a cure for bad soil. After all, they are plant foods, not garden cures. For new gardeners however, I usually recommend to use water solubles instead of jumping in as just organic, which takes time to get things right. Use water solubles which can give some production instead of organic methods with bad soil & bad methods which may leave you empty handed. Many gardeners may give up gardening & get discouraged with poor results. For this reason especially, I feel water solubles can give them the confidence to continue gardening. They can move slowly to "organic only" in the future once they've first seen results to keep them interested in gardening.

  • digdirt2
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Like I said, I don't condemn its use, just don't recommend it. There are better products available. In containers for all the reason hoosier lists - great. But "fertilizing weekly" with MIRACLE-GRO WATER SOLUBLE TOMATO PLANT FOOD 18-18-21 (per Mark's list) for in-ground plants (as the ones in question are), is too much. And that is not the same thing as Marks fertigation. Agreed?

    And Mark I don't disagree at all with what you say about encouraging new gardeners or avoiding discouraging them. Pure organic gardening (which I am far from doing) is not for all - very true. But there are quite effective compromises available on the market that don't have the problems of MG. Epsoma products is just one example. And when the OP says things like "go organic" and "avoid ingesting chemicals" I feel it is fair to point out the options/differences. Agreed?

    As to the readily available nutrients issue: (boring high-tech reading warning ;)

    There is a great deal of info available on the web from university studies about the difference in uptake between organic nutrients and synthetics such as MG if you wish to explore more. I included 2 of them here just for consideration.

    Availability of lIquid Fertilizer is No Greater Than Dry. Note the difference in the phosphates components. Poly-P's found in MG first have to break down into ortho-P's to be used by the plants. The P in organic matter is already in orthophosphate form and requires only moisture to be used by the plant.

    Liquid Phosphorus Fertilizers

    "Corn, wheat, millet, sunflowers, barley, grain sorghum.....and most other crops that have been researched all take P up through their roots in the HPO42- or H2PO4- forms (ortho-P ion forms [corganic matter]). And so, poly-P fertilizers [MG] first have to break down (hydrolyze) into ortho-P, and the ortho-P has to dissociate into an ion form for uptake by plant roots. The ortho-P in a liquid starter, is essentially 100% available for plant uptake. The poly-P is initially not available for uptake, but it hydrolyzes fairly quickly (in about 7-14 days depending on temperature and moisture) and is essentially 100% available in the time span that the plant is going to need it, even if it is applied at planting."

    "The bottom line crop plants need P in ortho-P ion forms before plant uptake will occur. Both ortho-P and poly-P fertilizers will provide the needed nutrition if applied at recommended rates to P deficient soils. Both ortho-P and poly-P are found in nearly all typical liquid P fertilizers. Poly-P provides some delay in fixation of P into less plant available forms."

    But to be fair to MG I must also point out that it does work better IF the soil ph is out of whack. In neutral to high pH soils the organic orthophosphates bind to calcium and are much less soluble. In that case the poly to ortho conversion needed to make MG available is faster.

    But even then 18-18-21 weekly is still too much. Agreed?

    Dave

  • oldroser
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    In addition to being lazy, I'm cheap. So I get what the local Agway stocks in 40 lb bags rather than going to Miracle Gro which is pricey.
    For those new to this forum, note how important it is to see where a reply comes from. In Arizona, salts build up is a problem - not so up here where our rainfall over the last 365 days was 70" (Just imagine the whole northeast buried under almost six feet of water - even on tippy toes, I'd be drowned) Believe me, things get leached out of the soil pretty fast under those conditions. And nitrogen generally gets leached out first as it is the most soluble.
    Which is another reason to prefer a fertilizer that is slow release.

  • korney19
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Dave, a few things. I think you are mistaking "liquid" fertilizers with water soluble fertilizers--your links are referring to liquid fertilizers, like delivered in a tanker truck to a farmer. M-G is not a liquid fertilizer, especially in the meaning your links refer to.

    Also, you are talking about just P, and not N & K, regarding ortho & poly. And furthermore, all references refer to soil fertilizers, whereas M-G can uptake thru the foliage, not just the roots. What doesn't absorb thru the foliage will find its way to the soil where it may uptake thru the roots. A typical gardener using M-G will mix it with water and apply to the plant or add it to a hose end spayer or Ortho sprayer and spray the plant.

    In containers for all the reason hoosier lists - great. But "fertilizing weekly" with MIRACLE-GRO WATER SOLUBLE TOMATO PLANT FOOD 18-18-21 (per Mark's list) for in-ground plants (as the ones in question are), is too much. And that is not the same thing as Marks fertigation. Agreed?

    I don't believe I mentioned M-G 18-18-21 application rates and intervals between fertilizing anywhere in this thread. I probably did however say the way I fertigate, which isn't the method the original poster would probably be using. I do think I mentioned using something similar to 18-18-21 (15-15-18 is what I use) in the 2nd half of the season, after first using something like 15-30-15 in the first half of the season. Through fertigation, I fertilize daily though in tiny amounts, and it probably equates to about a regular application every 10 days or so. So no I don't "fully" agree with your statement that 18-18-21 weekly is still too much. If you stated "18-18-21 every 10-14 days is still too much" then I would disagree.

  • digdirt2
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think you are mistaking "liquid" fertilizers with water soluble fertilizers

    Nope, ;) check out how MG is made. It begins as a liquid fertilizer which is then sold in several forms, dehydrated spikes and pellets, a liquid ready to use when diluted, and as a liquid which has been dehydrated into a granular form for packaging to be re-constituted with water for use at home.

    Also, you are talking about just P, and not N & K, regarding ortho & poly.

    True but just because that was the focus of those 2 particular studies. They are just the first links on my bookmarked list. A couple more are:

    Michigan State University: Which Form of Miracle Grow is Best

    Organic Based Fertilizers

    And many studies, assuming decent soil pH, show that N in any organic form has faster root uptake, releases nitrogen over a longer period of time, reduces the frequency of application, and increases the uniformity of growth through the season. And it lacks the inorganic salts that liquids have which convert to nitrates and leach away.

    From what I have read, K is about the same rate in either form but is especially good uptake via foliar feeding.

    But please keep in mind that I am not slamming MG here. The choice is yours of course. What I am saying is that it is not the "holy grail" of fertilizers available as so many believe and other alternatives, both organic and other synthetic liquids, should be considered. And as oldroser says, granular slow release has several advantages as well.

    I DO however take issue with the amount being used. You already know I'm sure from prior discussions that many gardeners, not just me ;), would consider your 18-18-21 every 10-14 days fertilizing program to be excessive. We also differ on watering requirements. But hey, we each do what works best for us. I'm not trying to convert you Mark. You are clearly committed to your program. My goal is just encouraging the OP and others to consider alternatives.

    I don't believe I mentioned M-G 18-18-21 application rates and intervals between fertilizing anywhere in this thread.

    No you didn't. The original post said "using MG for Tomatoes weekly..." and I took the numerical ratings for that product from your list above.

    whereas M-G can uptake thru the foliage, not just the roots. What doesn't absorb thru the foliage will find its way to the soil where it may uptake thru the roots.

    That only works if you believe in foliar feeding. You and I do obviously (see, we do agree on some things ;) but I choose to use compost tea and epsom salts for mine. But we both also know that many experienced gardeners don't buy into any effectiveness of foliar feeding and it isn't something most new gardeners even consider.

    I hope this clarifies my post above a bit.

    Dave

  • korney19
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Dave, do you have any reports pertaining to & specifically about tomatoes? The MSU link you gave looks like a student's thesis paper on ryegrass! I'm sure it's not endorsed by the university, plus had a broad "disclaimer" if you will:

    " Sources of error in this experiment could have contributed to errors in the data, which could have skewed results. Human error might have affected this experiment in every aspect. Not following specific watering instructions, fertilizing instructions, or procedures for the tests may have produced skewed data. The spectrometer used in determining amounts of chlorophyll and protein was very old and prone to breaking. This factor may have distorted the data, which may explain for why some results differed from the predictions. The soil that the grass was grown in could have contained unknown factors that could have influenced the growth of the plants. Other sources of error may include the exposure of the grass to unknown factors that may have affected growth when growing in the Holmes Hall dorm room."

    Also, the other link you first provided was on liquid tankage fertilizer for corn?

    "A good clean batch of 10-34-0, or 9-24-3 coming from a clean storage tank is as good of a fertilizer product as a good clean batch of 9-18-9 or 7-21-7. If the dealer has dirty tanks then you will get a dirty batch of any of these products. The nutrient availability for the crop is essentially the same for all of these products. Differences in how well the dealer keeps the products clean of dirt and other impurities is an issue. Dirty batches plug applicator nozzles and are a real pain to deal with."

    Sorry but the so-called university studies just confuse things more. I also see you edited the paragraph from the original and inserted which you believe are the organic and Miracle-Gro... I still think you're barking up the wrong tree, and apples & oranges at that.

    I use results to determine if something works or not, not edu thesis reports & stuff.

    Here's my simple analogy, much easier for everyone to understand than university reports, etc:

    Regular watering, base fertilizer at planting time:

    {{gwi:1380300}}

    Consistent watering, high P fertilizer (15-30-15) first 4 weeks at minute levels daily, approximately equivalent to 10-14 day application rate at amount recommended on the box, then 15-15-18 for the next 4-6 weeks, similar application method:

    {{gwi:1363738}}

    Regular watering, base fertilizer at planting time:

    {{gwi:1380301}}

    Consistent watering, high P fertilizer (15-30-15) first 4 weeks at minute levels daily, approximately equivalent to 10-14 day application rate at amount recommended on the box, then 15-15-18 for the next 4-6 weeks, similar application method:

    {{gwi:1377884}}

  • digdirt2
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    do you have any reports pertaining to & specifically about tomatoes?

    Sure there are some out there but the question isn't relevant. Nutrient uptake in plants is nutrient uptake in plants, Mark. It makes little difference if the plant is grass, corn, or tomatoes as long as the same crop is used for control purposes. However, studies are routinely done on grasses and other quick growing crops because of the ease of monitoring and quick results. It's a standard practice experiment at science fairs, 4-H clubs, FFA groups, and biology classes all over, not to mention universities. ;)

    Any reputable research study includes a disclaimer - it wouldn't be considered reputable if it didn't. I'm sorry you feel that university research studies are of little value but it is selective reading of them that complicates the issue, not the studies themselves.

    I offered the direct link to the entire study for those I have posted so the reader could read it for themselves and draw their own conclusions about the info. I "edited" nothing. But you have elected to selectively quote only those portions you found interesting. Not a fair comparison.

    As to what you call the discussion on buying from suppliers with clean tanks - the point of the paragraph is the first sentence:

    "Crop plants need P in ortho-P ion forms before plant uptake will occur. Both ortho-P and poly-P fertilizers will provide the needed nutrition if applied at recommended rates to P deficient soils. Both ortho-P and poly-P are found in nearly all typical liquid P fertilizers. Poly-P provides some delay in fixation of P into less plant available forms."

    As explained in detail in the body of the study, Poly-P = liquid forms (such as MG). Ortho-P = organic forms.

    Dave

    PS: Nice looking tomatoes by the way. ;)

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